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[jg4xchamp]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8dzstxE_5Rc

Latest Raycevik video critiques Spec Ops The Line from its mechanics to its themes, to how it foreshadows stuff, to some of the differences people had with some of the choices n reaction to them, to even that lame ass multiplayer.

It's great stuff as usual, and if you haven't seen a Raycevik video before; you absolutely should. His videos are thorough, comprehensive, and as far as analysis vids are concerned long, but not overly so.

Plus you might learn a new thing or two about Spec Ops, for instance I never actually knew about that journey trailer. That and Spec Ops The Line is one of the more fascinating games of the last 5 years, at least in terms of its narrative and I genuinely enjoy discussions about that game. And I say this as someone who isn't fond of the game part of the experience, personally the story loses some bite because of how dull I find the gameplay.

So watch, discuss, and what were your thoughts on Spec Ops The Line? Did you buy it on a whim? Were you a launch person? Or were you like a lot of us who played it after a sale because of strong word of mouth?

 

[Script of the Bridge]

I love how this guy and Noah Gervais both sound like scientists from Black Mesa. Will watch now thanks.

 

[DieH@rd]

I love how this guy and Noah Gervais both sound like scientists from Black Mesa.

😄

 

[Izuna]

I love it so much. Not the gameplay tho

 

[AJ_Wings]

Jesus Christ, that multiplayer balance & design...

Another fantastic video from Raycevick.

 

[Walt_Clyde]

Thanks for posting this. One of my favorite gaming experiences of all time.

 

[horkrux]

I hate this game with a passion.

Gonna watch his video later, but I bet he's praising it.

 

[Housh]

I preordered that game

 

[Acquiescence]

The military shooter for people who hate military shooters.

Good game. The ending fell flat and didn't knock me sideways like it did with some, but there were plenty of memorably doom-laden moments leading up to it. Quite a disturbing experience, in the best way possible.

 

[120v]

I love it so much. Not the gameplay tho

yep gameplay was like pulling teeth. had to throw in the towel by the 3rd quarter of the campaign or so

in spite of it all it was quite the trip. i think i played through it all in one sitting, very engrossing

 

[Strickland]

One of the most amazing and shocking games I've played last generation. On the same level with Bioshock.

 

[ViviOggi]

Never heard of the guy, thanks for this

Fantastic game that works on so many levels

 

[Mivey]

I love it so much. Not the gameplay tho

Specs Ops The Line with "good" gameplay (meaning focusing on making it "fun" first and foremost), would be like serving bacon at a vegan restaurant. You might like it, but it would undercut everything that it's about.

 

[7DollarHagane]

This guy is the best on YouTube for the content he does. I find Noah to be a little long winded for the content provided. Raycevick's videos are better condensed and edited.

Also for anyone who hasnt played it, it's $10 used at almost any GameStop for PS3/360 and worth it to spend a weekend with.

 

[Crossing Eden]

I hate this game with a passion.

Gonna watch his video later, but I bet he's praising it.

The point IS for you to hate the game.

 

[Soulblighter31]

Specs Ops The Line with "good" gameplay (meaning focusing on making it "fun" first and foremost), would be like serving bacon at a vegan restaurant. You might like it, but it would undercut everything that it's about.

What you're saying is that if the game were actually good, it would've resulted in a bad game. So thank god its shitty, because it ended up good like this.

 

[Mivey]

What you're saying is that if the game were actually good, it would've resulted in a bad game. So thank god its shitty, because it ended up good like this.

I am saying it's using its mechanics in a unique way to make the experience of the story more effective.
That this will make it look "bad" if you compare it on the same merits as the shooters that it is, in a sense, criticizing, is not accidental but unavoidable.

 

[Deleted member 10571]

I loved this game so much, and I dislike millitary shooters a lot usually. One of the best game of its generation easily and one of the best told stories until now.

 

[HariKari]

Jesus Christ, that multiplayer balance & design...

Another fantastic video from Raycevick.

The multiplayer was tacked on at the insistence of the publisher.

I always thought how generic it all felt mechanically really added to the story/vibe they were going for.

 

[BlizzKrut]

One of my favorite game stories ever, love it.

 

[RustyNails]

What an amazing game. The storyline fucks with you on a level that no other game does.

 

[antitrop]

Feels like yesterday I was evangelizing the shit out of this game.

The multiplayer was tacked on at the insistence of the publisher.

I always thought how generic it all felt mechanically really added to the story/vibe they were going for.

It was outsourced to a very, very small team in Florida (with the main dev being in Germany). Completely tacked on.

 

[Refreshment.01]

"The video game intelectuals favorite whore."

Thanks for linking this well produced and put video, and congratulations to the author of not falling into the trap of "modern piece of art" some critics have diluted themselves into believing: "It's gameplay is cookie cutter as a means to criticize the status quo in military shooters." No, drink of that ilusion until saciated i would rather take the bitter taste of reality. XD

However, is Ray selling me the game on it's gameplay citing unique aspects of it (which i didn't understand) after he admits how average and umpolished most aspects of it are? i don't think so, it had problems with colition detection both for shooting and cover, enemy AI is typical wave arrangements, companion AI is not really competent. Weapons are nothing special, no creative level or scenario design.

The game basically defaults to the narrative and setting resonating with players or not and that's it. A person liked watching Apocalypse Now or reading Heart of Darkness them the game chances of being apreciated by such person increase.

 

[LordBaztion]

Love this game. If game gifting were an option in Xbox I would be gifting it to my friends.

 

[jg4xchamp]

The point IS for you to hate the game.

Specs Ops The Line with "good" gameplay (meaning focusing on making it "fun" first and foremost), would be like serving bacon at a vegan restaurant. You might like it, but it would undercut everything that it's about.

I wouldn't quite go that route gents. While I get that the game is meant to be routine on some level, as it is being critical of other military sims. The notion that the game is being critical of the player and their bloodlust n need to act all self important, is actually undercut for me when I'm going "but I found this game pretty dull".

The actual head-shots are nice n bloody, but the action itself is often simple, clunky, and at times mind numbing to sit through. On the flip side Hotline Miami with it's tight action n satisfying feedback loop, isn't dishonest when its own narrative calls the player out on their violent tendencies.

Metal Gear Solid did some of this stuff since 98, while being an enjoyable game (albeit yes, more criticizing the players who couldn't sneak and actually killed people). The whole "spec ops the line combat is bad on purpose" isn't some get out of jail free card, and authorial intent doesn't mean it's devoid of criticism.

"Fun" might be the incorrect expectation for the gameplay, but satisfaction isn't. And often killing a dude in that game is fairly banal. Admittedly I've grown less fond of cover based shooters in general (sans Vanquish n Binary Domain), and was never super high on these Call of Duty styled military shooters in general.

 

[Carlius]

well that it, imma download it and finally play this sucker.

 

[Davilmar]

My heart just warmed when I got the YouTube notification. I am in awe of this man's work and attention to detail, and he just happened to review one of my favorite games from the last gaming generation.

 

[antitrop]

well that it, imma download it and finally play this sucker.

It's super short, barely 4-5 hours, but well-paced.

 

[Deleted member 10571]

well that it, imma download it and finally play this sucker.

I mean, if you've already seen the video you might already know way too much :/

 

[Kwansu Dudes]

So for the people who thought it was too boring to get through, is it better to watch a playthrough then?

Thank you for posting. I've been searching for more "essays" and haven't heard of this person yet.

Edit: Thanks, i'll give it another go then.

 

[jg4xchamp]

So for the people who thought it was too boring to get through, is it better to watch a playthrough then?

Thank you for posting. I've been searching for more "essays" and haven't heard of this person yet.

As someone who doesn't care for the gameplay, I don't think you get as much out of the experience watching it. A lot of the subtle stuff is more fascinating when you've played (you might not catch everything, but you should be able to pick up on some stuff), certain sequences are tied beautifully with what you are doing.

I think it depends on you as a player in terms of how much does the gameplay not being strong bother you in general.

Spoiler ahead just in case, it's a scene that's commonly talked about with this game.

Spoiler

The white phos scene for instance worked for me specifically for the same reason it worked for rayce, I never even stopped to think when I was given that thing, I just want bombs away. Which made the follow up all the more impactful

So that and a few others just don't work, when you're watching.

 

[Tapejara]

As someone who doesn't care for the gameplay, I don't think you get as much out of the experience watching it. A lot of the subtle stuff is more fascinating when you've played (you might not catch everything, but you should be able to pick up on some stuff), certain sequences are tied beautifully with what you are doing.

I think it depends on you as a player in terms of how much does the gameplay not being strong bother you in general.

Spoiler ahead just in case, it's a scene that's commonly talked about with this game.

Spoiler

The white phos scene for instance worked for me specifically for the same reason it worked for rayce, I never even stopped to think when I was given that thing, I just want bombs away. Which made the follow up all the more impactful

So that and a few others just don't work, when you're watching.

Yeah, the reason why Spec Ops works/has had such an impact with players is because of how it interweaves narrative with gameplay.

 

[Late Flag]

I picked this up when it was free on PS+ not really knowing anything about it. Great experience.

 

[Crossing Eden]

I wouldn't quite go that route gents. While I get that the game is meant to be routine on some level, as it is being critical of other military sims. The notion that the game is being critical of the player and their bloodlust n need to act all self important, is actually undercut for me when I'm going "but I found this game pretty dull".

The actual head-shots are nice n bloody, but the action itself is often simple, clunky, and at times mind numbing to sit through. On the flip side Hotline Miami with it's tight action n satisfying feedback loop, isn't dishonest when its own narrative calls the player out on their violent tendencies.

Metal Gear Solid did some of this stuff since 98, while being an enjoyable game (albeit yes, more criticizing the players who couldn't sneak and actually killed people). The whole "spec ops the line combat is bad on purpose" isn't some get out of jail free card, and authorial intent doesn't mean it's devoid of criticism.

"Fun" might be the incorrect expectation for the gameplay, but satisfaction isn't. And often killing a dude in that game is fairly banal. Admittedly I've grown less fond of cover based shooters in general (sans Vanquish n Binary Domain), and was never super high on these Call of Duty styled military shooters in general.

I mean it was a dull game to play but the way the narrative is interwoven into the gameplay makes it stand out completely. In the same way that Uncharted 2 is incredibly dull and unsatisfying, (especially that horrid slowmo melee combat good lord).

 

[molnizzle]

I liked everything about it but the ending(s). Some of them just didn't make sense for the character.

For new players: just play on easy. The combat is secondary to the narrative, but it's important that you experience the combat for yourselves. The narrative relies on that.

 

[chronic_archaic]

The game is quite good, but I think my biggest issues stem from repetition and the environment never changing but the latter I understand is required for the narrative which without it makes the game lousy. By the end I was frustrated from the combat encounters but I think I was playing it way too fast also.

 

[Whitebison]

damn that was great, enjoyed it a lot. Still one of the best games of the past generation by far.

 

[Jangowuzhere]

Great video. It's nice that he goes into detail and actually acknowledges the game's flaws as well.

Raycevick seems way more interesting as a critic now. His critique of Call of Duty a couple years ago for example is so shallow and lame in comparison to something like this.

EDIT: Also, to answer the OP. I think I appreciate Spec Ops: The Line more for what it tried to do then what it actually managed to accomplish. The White Phosphorus scene could have been executed far better. I was definitely one of those people who felt a disconnect from the story and my actions (

Spoiler

those people were obviously civilians in the back.

) It's also impossible for me to ignore the dumb plot holes introduced at the very end.

Spoiler

Seriously, the whole thing with Walker talking into a broken radio and your teammates not questioning him was just...really stupid.

 

[jg4xchamp]

I mean it was a dull game to play but the way the narrative is interwoven into the gameplay makes it stand out completely. In the same way that Uncharted 2 is incredibly dull and unsatisfying, (especially that horrid slowmo melee combat good lord).

Well your wording throws me off with "the point is for you to hate the game", I mean story wise to a point, but not the mechanics. And UC2 is a weird comparison because Uncharted is actually in theory trying to be fun. It's mechanics being dull are a pretty big short coming in that game as well.

But fair enough.

 

[MadMod]

I played this last year for the first time and loved the story, incredible way to misdirect a gamer. Would love a spiritual sequel from the same minds/writers of the game.

 

[jeffers]

Spoiler

The white phos scene for instance worked for me specifically for the same reason it worked for rayce, I never even stopped to think when I was given that thing, I just want bombs away. Which made the follow up all the more impactful

Spoiler

See for me, I didnt have that bloodlust and I tried that segment 4 or 5 times without using the phosphor, but its just infinite spawn enemies. Later on with the people hanging from the bridge, again I just went for the third option of the two presented and hit right into the walls of the narrow road they want you to go down. So when its like 'you are so evil!!1 at the end, I just shrugged at the cheap shyamalan twist

 

[Fantastapotamus]

One of my favourite games of all time.
I love this game so damn much

 

[Schlorgan]

Best game to come out on my birthday.

 

[Parham]

Guess I need to post this again since there are some people who seem to have already forgotten after 2 page. Wow, how the mind slips!

"Allegedly"

Opening admitting to sexually assaulting someone(then banning anyone who called him out for it)

Posting revenge porn with their real full names then another admin(a now jailed pedophile) printed the photos and jacked off over them and sent it to the boyfriend.

You're right, how can we even know if he's guilty or not? HMMMM

Also:

 

[Nokterian]

The story is one of those you have to play it..the shooting is meh but the story. Play it on easy, really more games should do this. He makes awesome video's lots of time and quality put he has done, watched all of his video's. To me one of those youtubers like Captain Disillusion who take time and effort to make worthy and watchable content.

 

[Drillary Clinton]

I actually thought the gunplay in SO was very competent. Nothing great. Obviously the story, script, and voice acting were the main draws. Incredible game overall.

 

[Budi]

I actually thought the gunplay in SO was very competent. Nothing great. Obviously the story, script, and voice acting were the main draws. Incredible game overall.

I fully agree. It didn't feel awful to play at all. But yeah the true strenghts were in other areas. Really memorable experience, I loved the enviroments and soundtrack too. I mean it had Hush, how can you not love it.

 

[Breakage]

Thread reminded me I've had this game sitting on my 360's hard drive for years. I've wanted to play it to completion but never get around to it. Is it possible to complete the game from start to finish in an evening on Normal? How many hours am I looking at?

 

[molnizzle]

Thread reminded me I've had this game sitting on my 360's hard drive for years. I've wanted to play it to completion but never get around to it. Is it possible to complete the game from start to finish in an evening on Normal? How many hours am I looking at?

4-5 hours, but play it on easy. The combat is not good and you're gonna want to get through it as fast as possible. The point of the game is the narrative.

 

[Breakage]

4-5 hours, but play it on easy. The combat is not good and you're gonna want to get through it as fast as possible. The point of the game is the narrative.

Noted. Thanks for playtime info and suggestion.