-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Capcom's difficult position
- Thread starter CrimsonCrescendo
- Start date
I don't think you understand what I'm saying. What I'm saying is I talked to a lot of people on and off the record about this game. Sanke Eyez, Tokido, and James are all people I've talked to out of who you have mentioned and I heard differently from what you're saying. James is right too. SF4 was treated pretty poorly. 3S was a laughingstock at various points of the FGC history. Times are different and that stuff doesn't fly anymore. That doesn't change the fact that SFV is the tire on top of the burning trash heap of Capcom's fighting game issues at a time where people aren't as forgiving about it.
Again, this isn't somebody who was just watching streams and reading twitter. I was working in the FGC at various tournaments and events while also writing about it. I was there. Chindogg who you decided to argue against earlier in the thread was also there. People who have been in the deepest parts of shit with this thing are all telling you something, and then your defense is "Daigo, Haitani, and Tokido all say they like it more than SF4." I'm sorry dude, but that's some weak ass shit compared to the real experiences that have happened in the community regarding the title.
And that's something that doesn't make sense about you. You've gone to bat for Capcom over this game as far as defending the rootkit fiasco. You also talk about the game with a level of understanding most entry level tournament level players are past. Most of the evidence you bring up seems to be from watching SFV centric streams and checking out SFV centric social media. You're arguing with people who have actually been around this stuff without saying things that have merit with any kind of real time around the players involved.
It just doesn't make sense to me dude. I'ma call a spade a spade. Whether or not you're on Capcom's payroll, your'e a next level shill about this game for some reason. I don't think anything I say is going to convince you otherwise of your version of the narrative that took place. I'm hoping at least somebody takes away a bit of understanding of how Capcom even mishandled the competitive side of this whole fiasco.
I did. I was with SRK for a couple years before that, and contributed to a few FGC projects here and there. I don't really do that anymore and I don't think I was even that great when I did do that honestly, but I at least was snooping around seeing and hearing some things.
James Scott
Banned
Do they have any platformer teams of note?
They basically have MH/action/Itsuno team, RE Team, and the fighting team which hasn't made much internally until MVCI which...yeah
As far as their fighting games go. They fumbled hard with SFV. A shame because the game is great to watch and play.
That said. It either needs a true relaunch. Or they need to offer a "free" version of it and let people upgrade if they want to.
MvC:I will be interesting to see. It's been getting a ton of shit online, but I think it'll be fun to play. They just need to have it content packed at launch. And they need to have a DLC and service outline for it.
That said. It either needs a true relaunch. Or they need to offer a "free" version of it and let people upgrade if they want to.
MvC:I will be interesting to see. It's been getting a ton of shit online, but I think it'll be fun to play. They just need to have it content packed at launch. And they need to have a DLC and service outline for it.
They just need to make a gacha mobile RPG that has characters from all of their IPs. They could ape Fire Emblem Heroes and be at a pretty good start point.
Double down on mid-tier games as well. Mega-Man, Resident Evil, Lost Planet could all have decent entries with low costs.
Double down on mid-tier games as well. Mega-Man, Resident Evil, Lost Planet could all have decent entries with low costs.
SinCityAssassin
Member
Dead Rising more like dead falling! There. A reprieve from SFV before Carter opens his mouth again.
the biggest fighting game that turned out to be a dumpster fire
you cant blame people for hating/not liking it lol
and then you have capcom calling their customers as haters if they dont support them and will be left behind lmao
He has been saying this since launch..eventually I guess he'll be right.
SFV is a fuck up but it must be doing "fine" on the DLC side of things....a true fuck up would probably have had them scrap it all together. If we do get a season 3...then I think a lot of the doom and gloom is a bit overstated (not unfounded by no means tho)
FWIW last year there were a lot of rumors going around that aspects of SFV support were up in the air. I'm still a bit confused as to what ended up happening behind the scenes since I checked out at some point, but obviously things are going okay now. I wouldn't be surprised if they haven't hit a break point where they're good to keep on going with what they are doing for a bit.
The only real doom and gloom left is the questions up in the air on esports stuff. The numbers on that aren't terrible by any means, but it's not what people were looking for coming from SF4 and the kind of inflated first year. Expectations were set a bit high on that front and I'm not sure what type of fallout that might cause, MvCI also indirectly affects that too so it'll be something to watch.
Don't say I defended the rootkit stuff - I said the reactions were OTT, which they were, and they actually fixed it within 24hrs. Of course it never should have happened in the first place. Again you've worked in the community and did a couple of interviews, what do you want? A gold star? You still don't speak for everyone else who may have seen and heard otherwise as the community is pretty wide.
Not everyone has a chance to do what you did and just because they may disagree with you, it doesn't mean their opinions are less valid all of a sudden. The sad thing is you continue to harp on about the "misfortunes" of SFV while completely ignoring the competive success it's actually had. Just look at EVO numbers and the reception of the game after Tokido's win. For a so called e-sports journalist you aren't half out of touch, but then again you clearly have a narrative you need to spread.
As the posted above me mentioned this gloom and doom about it is very OTT (and funny) but I guess it must be doing something right to generate this much interest and discussion after almost 2 years.
EventHorizon
Member
Wow. If this represents the best Capcom understanding of video games, they are truly doomed. If functionality was all that mattered, why pay the licensing cost for Marvel characters? Just make your own with the same moves. It's like Capcom saw the truth, threw it in a black hole, did a 180 towards la la land, and hit the afterburners.
The narrative I'm trying to harp on is what has actually happened with the game in the first year. I'm not a fan of revisionist history when it comes to this stuff because it's kind of important to understand what happened. As for your personal shenanigans, I saw somebody downplaying a rootkit. Idgaf as to what level you defended it, that's some pretty amazing shilling.
As for my position, again, if somebody else who I know would have a strong perspective compared to where I was I would be open to it. Considering the fact most people who were around the same spaces as me all say similar things, I don't expect it to change much. As far as Evo numbers go, it's pretty accepted at the moment that second year numbers for the game are lagging despite the pretty wild support going into it. SFV had amazing chances this year based on last year, and that's neat. The question is where can things go from here if the actual growth in the scene isn't as strong as projected to the people it was sold to. There's also the question of whether or not that's enough to keep things going as is considering the current state of Capcom.
As far as this thread goes, I don't think it's that off topic. Capcom had a slam dunk in the FGC on this thing, and they failed on even that. A lot of the goodwill they built up over the last gen of FGC stuff was lost over this, and it's left one of the decently strong arms of the company in question. I doubt they'd be staring down the barrel of a poor MvCI reception even in the FGC if it weren't for SFV. It really continues their trend of mishandling their IPs down to the level of fans turning their backs on them.
It's still worth talking about because it's one of the most outstanding fuck ups of this generation so far on so many different levels. That's actually pretty interesting to talk about. The weird part about it getting brought back up constantly is the GAF defense force for it. You wouldn't have people like me even posting if it weren't obnoxious to see people blatantly saying wrong things about something that is a pretty major event in the history of the entire genre.
While I get that Capcom can't straight-up say "Marvel wouldn't let us use Magneto", that was a shitty way to get around the question.Wow. If this represents the best Capcom understanding of video games, they are truly doomed. If functionality was all that mattered, why pay the licensing cost for Marvel characters? Just make your own with the same moves. It's like Capcom saw the truth, threw it in a black hole, did a 180 towards la la land, and hit the afterburners.
1.7 million in 2 years, including Steam/PSN sales dropping the game to as cheap at $10 at times. "Interest" means nothing if sales don't back it up.
Wow. If this represents the best Capcom understanding of video games, they are truly doomed. If functionality was all that mattered, why pay the licensing cost for Marvel characters? Just make your own with the same moves. It's like Capcom saw the truth, threw it in a black hole, did a 180 towards la la land, and hit the afterburners.
That quote is an example why of PR people need to exist. I can't believe that was actually said.
I'm not sure I'm a believer in "any publicity is good publicity". I mean, we still talk about how awful Mass Effect 3's ending was, how terrible Final Fantasy XIV's launch was, how insulting the story of Metroid: Other M was, how Mighty No. 9 disappointed, how people felt outright misled by Aliens: Colonial Marines, etc.
That's not those games doing "something right" so much as it is reminding people how bad they were so we don't forget the mistakes of the past and we can improve from them moving forward.
At the very base level, I think SFV has a solid foundation and competent eSports presence, but that's as far as my praise goes. Granted, many games never even get that far, but I expected so much more from the game and I don't find my expectations unreasonable given the landscape the game has competition with.
And that's not me being a hater; I want Street Fighter to succeed, but acknowledging the game has problems - ones that STILL aren't fixed - is the first step towards recovery. So long as people are apologetic to every decision they make - both good and bad - Street Fighter will never improve.
Also, basically this. I'm of the belief the game is coasting on some of the DLC and long term planning built into it, but it's still performing like this. None of this really means shit if the financial burden just collapses it all.
Gunslinger
Member
Oh wow lol.
If you mean DLC, we kinda already have rumors from reliable sources, namely the guy who leaked all of Season 2, about Season 3 (unless you've heard otherwise). If you mean the CPT, I'd imagine that the SFV side of things may remain the same ($600k, CPT Premier Pack, etc.). Unless everyone in the FGC drops SFV like a rock in the next few months, I'm not that worried about future support.
Realistically, none of the faithful are dropping SF because it's SF. The game has dev support and so it'll be played.
That said, I wouldn't be surprised if you start seeing more people play more diverse games in the next year or so. DBFZ vs Marvel will be very interesting to see (although I believe there'll be a lot of overlap.)
Wow. If this represents the best Capcom understanding of video games, they are truly doomed. If functionality was all that mattered, why pay the licensing cost for Marvel characters? Just make your own with the same moves. It's like Capcom saw the truth, threw it in a black hole, did a 180 towards la la land, and hit the afterburners.
One of the single dumbest things ever said in regards to marketing a video game. Only thing that can compete is the guy from Marvel saying "Most people don't even remember who the X-Men are."
It comes across as a fundamental misunderstanding of why casual players buy crossover games, and they really should've just been honest and said "Sorry guys, no X-Men characters in this game because Fox owns the movie rights." I'd respect the audacity of the honesty over just blatant lies.
There's also the arcade version which is supposedly still coming which should give it some life in Japan.
They can't be honest because then marvel gets mad.
Kaleinc
Banned
I actually described dmc by platinum.
Yeah, that's what I mean. First year the rumors and leaks I was told about went along the lines of "There were things that were going to happen that now aren't" and I can't get too specific with that. Support for things like Season 2 were questioned early on, but it was less of "will Season 2 happen?" and more about money/resources being pulled away so things might come out a bit rough or lacking in content that was originally meant to be there.
I don't think it's going anywhere soon right now, but I think some of those things I heard had merit. Really curious what we'll see from here on out. If I had to comment on the status of the game form last year, I'd say it went form critical condition to steadily limping along. I just don't know if limping along is good enough long term given the current state of things. I expect the competition for other games to get a lot more fierce soon.
Like I said, Capcom can't throw Marvel under the bus on the X-Men situation, no matter how petty Perlmutter & Co. were on the matter. But all the same, Capcom could have done a much better job of dodging the question.
lol Anne I think you need to lay off the wine.
2nd year numbers were down from last year but we have to remember over 5000 players was an anomaly and it was a fresh new game. This year the venue also charged 2/3 times the price to gain entry. Go figure.
I agree with you about mishandling the IP. It was in a terrible state however all this doom and gloom about it dying is nonsensical considering SFV had one of the biggest audiences tuning (516K) in to watch it, which I think no other fighter has come close to. This isn't me "shilling" btw, just facts.
The only reason why it keeps getting brought up is because of two things. 1. Capcom hate bandwagon 2. Fans of other fighters feel insecure that SF is still the most popular so they feel a need to bash it, and with the amount of ammunition Capcom is giving them it's not surprising. The obnoxious comment is also ironic.
Don't know if you know how SF works but it's usually a franchise that has long legs. They even said it's a "service" type game and they will continue to update it over many years. DLC is also very big with SFV so you need to take that into consideration.
2nd year numbers were down from last year but we have to remember over 5000 players was an anomaly and it was a fresh new game. This year the venue also charged 2/3 times the price to gain entry. Go figure.
I agree with you about mishandling the IP. It was in a terrible state however all this doom and gloom about it dying is nonsensical considering SFV had one of the biggest audiences tuning (516K) in to watch it, which I think no other fighter has come close to. This isn't me "shilling" btw, just facts.
The only reason why it keeps getting brought up is because of two things. 1. Capcom hate bandwagon 2. Fans of other fighters feel insecure that SF is still the most popular so they feel a need to bash it, and with the amount of ammunition Capcom is giving them it's not surprising. The obnoxious comment is also ironic.
Don't know if you know how SF works but it's usually a franchise that has long legs. They even said it's a "service" type game and they will continue to update it over many years. DLC is also very big with SFV so you need to take that into consideration.
They were doing a good job dodging the question back when it was announced. Idk what happened now.
Moon Presence
Member
DmC5 and Okami2, please.
Capcom seems to still be sticking to their "5 years of support" guns, so perhaps your sources may have been referring to something like the Linux port getting scrapped.
And that service has net the 1.7 million sales in 2 years. They've had to give away free fight money on multiple occasions to keep people happy.
I'm sure it's probably doing alright, but it's by no means doing as well as they'd like it to be doing. Just about every other major fighting game including ARMS outsold it's launch instantly.
Yeah. I mean, it may be the same song and dance, but "due to extenuating circumstances, we weren't able to include the X-men" would not only be vague enough to not pinpoint the blame (even if we could figure out why), it'd take a lot of heat off THEM and put it back onto Marvel proper.
We know it was Marvel's call on the roster - same as it was in MvC3 as well. Heck, just saying "we provide the Capcom side, and we put in who Marvel permits us to" would work just as well.
SinCityAssassin
Member
I've never seen a man shill this hard for a narrative that never existed and I got Nintendo's CEO for an avatar.
That's exactly what Marvel Entertainment doesn't want. And it's not just Capcom, either. TT has been dodging the question of the Fox characters being in Lego Marvel 2 as well (though they're seemingly doing better than Capcom's recent dodging) without putting Marvel Entertainment on the hot seat.
Meh. Free FM is nothing major and they have only done it twice IIRC. It's true they don't have the budget as the big publishers like Nintendo, WarnerBros and to an extent Bamco which is why the launch was a mess in the first place. However it seems, with the profit they have made, they are trying to re-invest it back into the game.
Nah, it was def about resources getting pulled or redirected elsewhere due to the launch. Like I said, I don't think Capcom continuing to support the game was ever in question. What I am saying is it's likely that that support was intended to be stronger than it is currently, but with resources diverted away things changed. You get what I'm saying?
These were pretty reliable things I was hearing, so either something changed or we're just missing out on things most people never heard about. I'm willing to bet it falls somewhere into the latter, especially with the speed at which things are moving right now.
Again, you're kind of just dismissing what I'm saying without bring up the point. Nothing is going away right now, but basically everything is underperforming at some level. These numbers are really not that impressive to the esports space in general which is where SFV is trying to be. Not having a major system of growth and easily sustainable revenue in that space is also bad. Again, it's not some shit where it's going to close shop at the end of the year. It's just not doing good enough for what it's being sold as. Things that perform like this don't tend to last long term, especially out of where Capcom is at the moment.
Not sure about platformers specifically since all the latest ones have been outsourced by Capcom, but by most accounts MvC:I plays like a decent fighting game despite being astoundingly ugly at times.
There's still talent there, but it's spread far too thin and often mismanaged.
Umm, Sony is a pretty big company and funded the launch. That's why you had Sony logos everywhere and the game debuted at Sony's conference.
I could see the dev team getting shrunken down. Unless the SSFV rumors have some merit & resources are being put towards that update, it would explain the delays for Ibuki, Ed, & Abigail
Marvel's getting the heat anyway. They've BEEN getting this heat for years now in how they've handled the X-men. It's not some secret; it's out there and public and has been for near a DECADE now.
While I'm sure they don't want more (who does), it's not like this is a surprise to anyone with even the most remote knowledge of the comic industry right now. It's just as asinine as the "nobody really knows the X-men anymore" comment someone made.
But, fine, playing the PR game, you could just avoid the discussion entirely. "Why aren't the X-men in the game?" "We're working hard to include a wide selection of both new and returning characters to the game and I think you'll be pleased with future announcements!" (repeat ad nauseum).
And that's exactly what Capcom should have done. People like us who've been following the situation for years know what's up, but the average joe may not. Marvel's probably trying to avoid letting the news get to them via official news outlets & interviews, especially now when they're starting to dial things back on the X-Men restrictions for future games.
Gambling on gambling. Heh.
Oh man, if MHW doesn't sell as good as the main entries, its gonna be a dark days ahead for Capcom. They need that game to take off pretty well
PaulExcellent
Member
1. Digital collections on EVERYTHING. (Physical if SF or RE)
2. Don't hold back on translations/bringing to the US.
3. ???
4. Still in a difficult position, but with fan revenue coming in.
2. Don't hold back on translations/bringing to the US.
3. ???
4. Still in a difficult position, but with fan revenue coming in.
That's interesting. I will need to ask SneakersSO if this is true.
Guys if you are going to say something and be part of the community at least do your research. Sony helped to fund a part of the game they didn't completely fund it from scratch. The reason why there are logs everywhere is because it's console exclusive and they sponsor the CPT.
What could they do at this point that would make you want to play when you check back in?
Razgriz-Specter
Member
Make a new Outbreak that is aimed at the Destiny/Division/Anthem faux MMO crowd.Time to release Outbreak HD.
The game would not exist without Sony's funding. And please stop downplaying Anne and I's participation in knowing what's going on. The blind defense of this game's significant issues is starting to become tiresome.
Rewarding defense would be a good first step.
Christ lmao.
Is that you diving into the ambulance after you've discovered how bad the Tekken servers were on launch or was that when your master Harada promised you less input lag yet it was only 0.4 frames less when the patch actually dropped.
That's what I said. They helped to fund the project. They didn't completely fund it in its entirety.