Perhaps DQXI will convince them?
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Gotdatmoney
Member
With enhanced gameplay due to controls!
Eolz
Member
OrbitalBeard
Member
Lolno. But I know you're joking and just think it's a good strawman
It's clear a lot of people don't really understand how modern game development works. Comparing Wii and the 360/PS3 to the modern architecture of the Switch, PS4, and XB1 is pretty laughable. That's not to say MHW would translate to the Switch perfectly, but it's far more doable than porting an Xbox 360 game to Wii. I honestly don't think Capcom will put the resources toward doing so though. Switch will probably get its own entry using many of the same assets.
Gotdatmoney
Member
Lolololol.
Anyway, the Switch is capable enough to get games from this generation. Depends on what it is though. But you're def getting sub 720p in handheld mode.
What?
Switch to XBO/PS4 is a much more favorable relation than Wii to X360/PS3. World would need to downgrade some things, but nothing that can't be done.
test_account
XP-39C²
It was an arguement that was used some times back in the days. Its more to games than just graphics.
I agree with Gotdatmoney, we need a big demanding title on the Switch to really prove/kill this arguement.
A - I could see this being a problem but there is always a starting point. No one is conditioned to that type of model. It always has to be sold and continue to be sold to customers so they continue to spend money. It's not a one time thing. That's why there is turn over. New people come in and others stop.
B - Make it clear that this or that game requires a significant amount of storage. Remind people they would need to expand their storage. It's the same for any other game be it console or PC. I don't think MMOs or other GaaS cares if you don't have the hard drive space at the moment because the hard drive is small or filled up with other things. It's up to the customer to clear up the space or buy additional space. That's never stopped these type of products before.
Now if the game requires more storage that is currently available for purchase and that is usable by the Switch then it's not going to work. If for some reason you need 200gb for the game alone then yeah forget about it.
C - Make it clear that the game is online only. That it must have a connection to do anything. People that play Splatoon, Mario Kart, etc know they can not play online multiplayer if they don't have an Internet connection. Make it 100% clear up front it's an online only game in its entirety. If a person buys after that it's one them. You don't have to baby customers. They can read.
If you don't have a connection because you are away from home or a building and you're phone can't produce a solid signal while tethered then you can't play. It's as simple as that.
In the end it comes down to the company wanting to bother to cultivate a new revenue stream. They might not care at all to do so. That's not the Switch being unable to handle said type of game.
I feel it's the same thing with Monster Hunter World. Nothing I've seen outside of the visuals tells me that game is not doable on the Switch. Certainly nothing gameplay wise. Not after the games I've seen already on the Switch and games I've seen released on the Wii U which the Switch is more powerful. I don't buy that at all. It's a deliberate choice by Capcom to not do a Switch version.
Jarod McChicken
Member
I'm adding an interesting bit from the other thread. Big growth year on year in China, with Sony being more and more active on this market with hardware bundles and games localizations, like we saw with the recent ChinaJoy conference. Japan is also up +21,2% for april-june 2017. I do wonder how those sales works though, because why would Sony made more money from Japan than US and Europe ? I suppose the sales of hardware are accounted there of something like that.
frankie_baby
Member
I'm thinking the numbers are gonna be fairly disappointing by dragon quest standards
What does that mean exactly? Below 2 million? Below/around 1.5 million?
citation needed here.
Gotdatmoney
Member
You serious?
frankie_baby
Member
Who knows really, even if they'd got close to 2 million I'd suspect they'd want to shout it from the roof tops but the silence suggests the 1.5 maybe closer
Yes? Just look at Horizon or Battlefront 2 or Destiny and tell me how they are gonna run on Switch, especially when not docked. Keep in mind Wii did get some western AAA games such as CoD. Do you think Switch is getting CoD or Destiny? When we are talking about portability, we should be focusing on big AAA titles. Of course you can port some indie games to Switch, maybe even MHW because that game doesn't look impressive at all, but that doesn't mean Switch is easier to port to.
TriForce Hero
Member
to be fair Switch runs BotW...
That one is impressive with all the chemistry engine.
That one is impressive with all the chemistry engine.
frankie_baby
Member
The power gap between xbone and switch is a tiny fraction of what the gulf between 360 and wii was
So you can port more games to the Switch than from the 360 to the Wii but it's not easier to port to ?
???
frankie_baby
Member
Exactly, its easier, simples
Yes, that's exactly what I said.
Gotdatmoney
Member
Eh that's not even what he said though
If Wii could get CoD and you know even a bit about how game developnebt works you would know how stupid it is to imply a 360 to Wii port is easier than an X1 to Switch port. They can port CoD to Switch if they want to. And it would be a far lesser undertaking than porting to a system like Wii which was over 20x weaker and lacking huge in the feature set department.
Porting isn't just about power. And even if it was PS4 to Switch is still far far more doable than 360 to Wii.
Well beyond the much greater raw power disparity that existed between the Wii and it's rivals, the Wii was repurposed GameCube tech that did not support any modern development APIs, thus requiring ports to be heavily rebuilt on different engines. Example: Dead Rising Chop Till You Drop was built on the RE4 engine rather than MT Framework.
What about memory? Or disc space? Also, can Switch run on maximum clock cycle, especially when undocked? When you are porting a game to Switch, you are essentially making a portable game. You need to take completely different concerns such as energy conservation and cooling into consideration. You are also stuffing a Blue-ray disc into a cartridge. Also since nowadays games should all be downloadable, what are you gonna do with that 32G space when XONE has 500G? What if you make two DLCs and use up all the space? What if your game has multiplayer mode like most modern games do? Are you gonna work with that shitty APP?
Com Truise
Member
I'll believe the "Switch can totally run these games just slightly downgraded" -crowd once there is a somewhat graphically demanding game running on the Switch. Looking at what's out and announced though, I really have no idea where the confidence comes from.
Apparently there's a function called "switch_wrapper" in UE4, you just call it and you get yourself a Switch game.
I, for one, am waiting to get this test from Capcom over with so we can get proper games.
frankie_baby
Member
Wii memory was 88mb vs the 360's 512mb, switch is 3.25gb vs xbone's 5gb, many games on xbone are bloated and dont need to take up anywhere near as much storage space as they do, use a bit of compression and 32gb be fine and its quite possible 64gb (or even largwr) carts may appear at some point and as for downloading well if you want to download a bigger game then put an SD card in, simples
Principate
Saint Titanfall
It runs on a tegra x1. This isn't some new chip it's capabilities are well documented. You can check them out yourself (though with a crappy android OS).
I think the most obvious test would be if someone announces a port of a demanding PS4/XB1 only open world game, and whether or not they highly modified it to work on the platform.
That would do a good job of showing someone who had an intent to port this type of product to Switch, and then whether or not they had to make core game design changes to accommodate the port.
Cross gen games, limited scope shooters, or mid-tier Japanese games are not going shape opinion on that front.
That would do a good job of showing someone who had an intent to port this type of product to Switch, and then whether or not they had to make core game design changes to accommodate the port.
Cross gen games, limited scope shooters, or mid-tier Japanese games are not going shape opinion on that front.
Were splatoon sales bad because we didn't get early PR?
FTFY.
OT i'm predicting 700k for the ps4 version and 1.2 mil for the 3ds version of DQ11. although i won't be surprised if it fails to do less than FFXV's first week. People say DQ is more popular in japan but i don't believe it's THAT much more popular for the ps4 version to be breaching 1.2 mil or something like that.
Calm Mind
Member
Well said.
I'm inclined to agree. I'll believe it when I see it, which I doubt will ever happen. It's not like u can just lower the resolution and be good to go. I think SquareEnix will try their best and put a lot of time and effort to optimize the DQXI switch version.. maybe they'll get it to run and look at least somewhat close to the ps4 version but I suspect it's going to be really ugly and low res in comparison with a lot of tech turned off. Will probably look really good undocked though.
frankie_baby
Member
They were incredible but less than a million and we dont normally see it for games bellow do we?
Isn't Ubisoft's No Man's Sky-like game (completely forgot the name of that thing) already sufficient to clear the notion that this thing is comparable in power to how Wii was to 360 ? It will be even clearer once we'll see footage of Dragon Quest XI.
Its not gonna do 1.5. It'll do 1.7 - 2 mill which is great for any game any franchise in todays climate.
If Ubisoft's new game looks anywhere close to NMS, then no, it ain't gonna prove anything. You need AssCreed, Watch Dog 2, Wildland, The Division or Far Cry to convince me. Also let's be real here, DQXI is not comparable to the true western open world here. I'd say it looks closer to Breath of the Wild than Horizon.
frankie_baby
Member
I suspect the switch is likely sort of lead platform for that game so possibly not the best game to put this argument to rest
I'm not looking at convincing you, I know already it would be in vain.
A multiplatform game being lead-developped on Switch ? I don't think it will ever happen.
frankie_baby
Member
Well we will see tomorrow, 1.5 is probably low end but i doubt much over 1.7 at the top
frankie_baby
Member
Its a toys to life game, perhaps lead developed was the wrong choice of wording on my part but its likely targetted with switch capabilities in mind
lwilliams3
Member
Lol, not even close. The Wii, in addition to it being over 10x weaker in raw power than the other systems, didn't even programmable shaders, or even fixed shaders like the 3DS. In most cases, porting a X360/PS3 game to the Wii would require devs to remake the game or port up from PS2/GCN/Xbox engines.
The Switch has 20-33% of the PS4 and Xbox 1's GPU respectfully*, but has non-exotic chips, supports modern game engines, and has graphical features up to the same level as the PS4Pro. Porting games down to the Switch is hilarously simple compared to the PS3/360 -> Wii.
*Just comparing FLOPS number. Does not include any complications between comparing AMD/NVidia's FLOPS number, nor Switch's ability for 2x FP16.
The Switch's A57 CPU cores actually has a slightly better clock-per-clock performance compared to the PS4 and XB1's Jaguar cores, but there are half of them and they run at a quite lower clockspeed, so an open world game (which are usually very CPU-dependent) would be a worst case scenario since such games are already CPU-starved and often have problems hitting stable framerates.
The problem is that there are other things that muddle the waters. For example, UE4 in its present form suffers from some bottlenecks on the GCN GPU architecture used on the PS4 and XB1. Those bottlenecks don't exist on the Maxwell architecture used on the Switch. This is how something like Snake Pass can run at a very close resolution to its PS4 counterpart. Ports of high profile UE4 games like DQXI wouldn't be good barometers.
Gotdatmoney
Member
No offense but you're implying that porting 360 games to the Wii would be easier than porting PS4 games to the Switch. It's not us being unreasonable here. This is flat out insanity on your end.