guggnichso
Banned
He is not defending anyone, you just try to make him look bad to avoid touching his very good argument. Also you dont know what Polygon would or wouldnt have done.
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Your milkshake duck
- Thread starter Spring-Loaded
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He is not defending anyone, you just try to make him look bad to avoid touching his very good argument. Also you dont know what Polygon would or wouldnt have done.
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
Oh, how the fuck could I leave out Steve Jobs?
When I found out that he was actually a ridiculously cartoonish asshole, my mind broke a little.
When I found out that he was actually a ridiculously cartoonish asshole, my mind broke a little.
Azure Dream
Member
IrishNinja
Member
nahhh laci green went down the shitter for that redpill dollar, it's been known
i tell myself this too, and hope cosmic carnage & vectrex keep him off social media more.
i tell myself this too, and hope cosmic carnage & vectrex keep him off social media more.
I want to, and I'm giving her the benefit of the doubt, but ever since she went on the Cindy rant and equating her design to Gladio on Pat's ff15 stream, I've been wary.
"Listening to opposing arguments" is not what she's doing. Unless you consider holding a debate between a noted transphobe and a transgender Youtuber with the title "Only 2 genders or OVER NINE THOUSAND???" to be a legitimate debate held in good faith.
This is to say nothing of the heinous shit her new friends pulled on her, and others, in the past, which she is apparently happy to forgive (cf: Sargon of Akkad blaming feminism for Elliot Rodger), or the way she takes trans people out of context when they argue with her in order to play into the trans panic narrative.
In fact I'd honestly say what she's doing is worse because she's helping to embolden alt-right shitheads who can now say "BUT LACI GREEN DEBATES PEOPLE" when she does nothing of the sort.
Fudgepuppy
Banned
Yeah, I don't disagree with you. Mike is just a bit too pragmatic to deal with these topics with nuance. Some times he really shines through as being an empathetic and thoughtful guy, but he also stumbles.
He doesn't come off as being malicious though, which is why I'm not writing him off yet.
What's going on with PhilipDeFranco though? A lot of his videos are all "SJW GETS BLOWN UP IN HER FACE", and yet he doesn't seem to spout that rhetoric in the videos themselves.
It's mostly the stuff about "There are two genders - Period" which she has said on twitter that makes me think that. Her years of campaigning for better sexual rights and general awareness of gender issues goes down the toilet when you throw people into such binary terms.
Also I don't think reasonable debate would ever work with the Alt-Right, it's not what they are about, they don't care and dialogue with them is talking to a brick wall. You could make the case that other people would be on the sidelines about any debate but if they're juggling between the alt-right's perspective and most decent people's perspective then that says a lot about them in my opinion.
Anyway, another name to add to the list is Colin Moriarty. I enjoyed his podcasts with Greg Miller for a long time, but PSILYXOXO went downhill and he seemed to be dragging things down. I think part of that might have been due to that podcast being a weekly show when it should have been a monthly one, the two of them just looked fatigued. And his political "jokes" on twitter had about as much humour as a dead rat.
tonysidaway
Member
The notion of the Milkshake Duck is based on a person having cherished standards that are breached by a previously admired individual. People who think feminism, abortion, etc, are unacceptable will have very different Milkshake Ducks from feminists, it's almost a trite statement. You could hold a mirror of this thread on an evangelical Christian forum, and it would work just fine even though the attitudes and standards would be very different from those of this vaguely leftish, secular forum.
So while I agree with your observation, I don't find it that interesting. I don't want to discuss the Milkshake Duck moment occasioned by an anti-feminist person discovering that so-and-so identifies as a feminist, because I find it absurd.
tonysidaway
Member
I'm pro-abortion. It's a safe procedure that has a far better medical prognosis for a woman than taking a pregnancy to term. When there is free access to abortion early in pregnancy, you end up with many happier outcomes than when there isn't. When later in an otherwise wanted pregnancy we discover a severe foetal anomaly or a condition that threatens the life of the mother, the outcome is sad, but not because of the decision to have a late abortion.
ForkNetwork
Banned
LowlySmokeGuy
Banned
If you had the power to change the law and leave those decisions up to you instead of the woman, would you do it?
I mean, really, if it's gonna be any of the Best Friends...
tonysidaway
Member
Of course not. But I can see how using the term "pro-abortion" can make one open to such misreadings, which is why I think "pro-choice" is a much better term. I only point out that I'm also pro-abortion to emphasize that I don't share the view that abortion is invariably, or even usually, regrettable.
I think he deliberately avoids taking any sort of controversial stance on anything.
Snarfington
Member
Oh man.
I think Sky is my gaming milkshake duck. I hadn't seen much of him but he seemed really cool from what I had.
I'm with you on this, I've had so many youtuber milkshake ducks that I prepare myself for the worst now. I was giving some intense side-eye after seeing what shows Paige had been on, and I'm just waiting for the other shoe to drop with Pat. I never looked into Plague that much, but that is disappointing.
I've had to deal with finding out some of my favorite sci-fi authors are garbage people (Larry Niven, Jerry Pournelle, Orson Scott Card who has been mentioned a few times), and the one that hurt the worst was Dan Simmons, famous for the astounding Hyperion books which I can no longer recommend. It turns out he dove off the deep end into the Islamaphobe pool, he wrote a short story (that is on his website) about his son, time traveling from the near future, telling him about how religious tolerance is going to pave the way for sharia law to become the new norm in America. The only way to stop the mass killings of honest freedom loving people, and the destruction of the free world, is to commit genocide now. It was so immensely repugnant to read.
Messofanego
Banned
Yahtzee/Zero Punctuation (Ben Croshaw) is definitely anti-social justice, anti-feminist, and of course a little transphobia. It's not really new. This is on top of being buddies with Ian Miles Cheong. Then again, I never thought this was surprising. Notice he brings up ideological diversity? 😉 You might recognise that from Google's recent anti-diversity scandal.
Not a big fan of diversity:
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/arti...-Gender-Choice
"And that made me think about this big sticky issue of diversity in video games...And now I'm trying to think of a game in which the main character being female is inseparable from the plot, but I'm drawing a bit of a blank. The Path, or Beyond Good & Evil, maybe. Or the Tomb Raider remake, but barring that one single act of attempted rape the plot is virtually the same as that of Far Cry 3. Perhaps this confirms the existence of a lack of diversity, but I'm not sure how to fix that. Game developers do remain predominantly male through no fault of their own, and asking them, from a male perspective, to make games about a female perspective, would probably produce something rather disingenuous.
But I digress. Okay then - let's say that every game should let you pick your gender as long as their gender isn't hugely central to the plot. Wait, that sounded weird. Games in which gender doesn't matter should let you choose your gender? If the gender doesn't matter, why should we care? Maybe the game developer just wants a character to be a generic cipher, so they make them a white male, because that's what they themselves are, and it's what generic means to them. To demand diversity for characters that are essentially blank placeholders is to put way more thought into it than the creator did."
" I thought the whole idea of equality was to be able to look beyond what brand of tackle everyone's swinging. Alright, I suppose there's a bit of an elephant in this room, that being the ongoing argument that video games are misogynistic, and the online proponents of such...So I welcome the perspective of those who want to discuss misogyny in video games, and in the interests of discourse, I don't agree with them.
Specifically I don't agree that video games are misogynistic just because there are certain tropes they tend to fall back on a lot. It is true that there are an awful lot of game stories where the protagonist is male and the female character exists either to be rescued or to die and give the protagonist motivation. We'll call that the hero-damsel narrative. I don't think that hero-damsel enforces misogyny. After all, the protagonist, the male, is the one who has it worst. He's the one who has to put himself at pain, and even die, over and over again, in an endless cycle of torment, for the benefit of the women. Yeah, 'damsels in distress' tend to be shallow characters without much agency, but who has less agency than the protagonist? The one that can't so much as lift a finger if the player doesn't press a button telling them to?"
"I do think it's true that games could use more diversity. But when I say that, I mean diversity of ideas, thoughtfulness, and perspectives. And that takes a whole lot more than just numerically equalizing the ham sandwiches to the sausage rolls."
Just not a fan of social justice:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZssC5Iw4XrA
"You know, whatever you think is currently the thing ruining video games, be it publishers, misogyny, social justice, Mumm-Ra or lead in the water pipes, it seems to be doing a fucking poor job of it because games have been pretty good lately. Maybe that's the equivalent of saying 'Ooh, it's a bit cold today, so much for global warming'. But I digress."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbNY1qgyuwY#t=1563
"If social justice tries to get up your case, all you need to do is flick V signs and blow an arse brick. Just whatever they say, go *blows raspberries*. At length. Keep doing it...Fuck you social justice for ruining the best day of that guy's life [shirtgate]."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbNY1qgyuwY#t=33m
"I thought feminists were supposed to be about wearing what you like. Suppose that doesn't apply to the MEN, does it? Men's rights for peace. [sarcastic tone] Men are the real victims."
Transphobia:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Cy0mWziFrI#t=1m45s
"The gameplay is best described as single-player co-op. And I know that sounds like saying 'I'm not gay, I only suck off pantomime dames', but it is."
"It's hard to sympathise when you have to put spotty mcbumblefuck through the X-ray machine cause his passport says he's a GIRL. And the last precious seconds in the day trickle out as you examine a picture of his hairy balls."
LogicAirForce
Neo Member
Yep, Orson Scott Card is another one for me. I loved Ender's Game and bought it before I found out about Card's horrible views. Ever since then I've been encouraging people to rent the book from a library instead of buying it, since its still an amazing book but Card doesn't deserve any money for it. I'm a little more comfortable buying Lovecraft books since he is long dead and won't be profiting off it, but it still sucks having to warn people about his bigotry when I recommend his books. " Now, there is this one story called The Rats in the Walls and it has a cat with a really unfortunate name..."
Messofanego
Banned
Has there ever been an author more racist and fearful of black people in the history of literature more than HP Lovecraft?
Planetary's jab at his racism was great.
Planetary's jab at his racism was great.
ugh, yeah. Frankly it just sounds like standard "white male gamer" mentality. Not to say it isn't unpleasant of course.
GhostTrick
Banned
Whoopi Goldberg for supporting Roman Polanski.
JustSomeone
Member
Geroge Lucas.
Baron von Loathsome
Member
What's wrong with George Lucas? I've always understood him to be the type that walks the walk.
JustSomeone
Member
He is a crazy megalomaniac.
I could find no such tweet. I could only find a reasonably nuanced video she put out that describes people using the word "gender" in a large variety of different contexts, which all could mean different things.
Like I said, I don't necessarily agree with trying reasoned debate with people who say and do horrible things, but in that case, you might as well hate Obama. It's not really something I necessarily fault someone for, even if I think it's ultimately fruitless.
Holy fuck, don't scare me like that. CGR dude is a pretty okay watch for me on occasion. I always wonder what would happen to his mind If ever got his hands on a truxton 2 cab...
Messofanego
Banned
Did Roald Dahl have disgusting views? He is one of my favourite authors.
I've never heard Mark even remotely get into anything like that.
SolidSnakex
Member
The worst thing he's ever done is express hate for Ridge Racer. I still don't get it but it's true.
Baron von Loathsome
Member
Seems like he was very racist and sexist. I mean, think about the Oompa Loompas for a second.
Zelenogorsk
Banned
I had this happen in reverse. I swore off ever reading any Orson Scott Card novel because of his horrid homophobic views. Then I had to read Ender's Game for a class and was blown away by it. I wish I had hated it so I could just write it off, but part of me still wants to read the sequel while another part of me wants to forget i ever read it in the first place.
Reading this makes me glad I threw my copy of Hyperion in the trash.
Rats is probably my favorite Lovecraft story (or maybe The Outsider) but I'll never recommend him to anyone because of how damn racist the dude was. Like super mega racist.
Reading this makes me glad I threw my copy of Hyperion in the trash.
Rats is probably my favorite Lovecraft story (or maybe The Outsider) but I'll never recommend him to anyone because of how damn racist the dude was. Like super mega racist.
Messofanego
Banned
Welp.
http://www.bbc.com/culture/story/20160912-the-dark-side-of-roald-dahl
James and the Giant Peach has been lambasted for its racism (remember that bit where the Grasshopper declares Id rather be fried alive and eaten by a Mexican?)...
...Charlie and the Chocolate Factorys Oompa Loompas were originally depicted as small black pygmies with warlike cries. Female characters tend to be either warm or wicked with nothing in between, while Revolting Rhymes brands Cinderella, that fairytale girl-next-door, a dirty slut.
...It was Neal who coined the nickname Roald the Rotten, referring to a mean, dyspeptic streak of which she saw plenty. He cheated on her, and the years-long affair that would eventually end their marriage was with a friend of hers.
...And he made no attempt to hide his anti-Semitism. In 1983, he announced in the New Statesman that Hitler had his reasons for exterminating six million men, women and children. There is a trait in the Jewish character that does provoke animosity, he said. I mean, theres always a reason why anti-anything crops up anywhere; even a stinker like Hitler didnt just pick on them for no reason.
Moose Biscuits
It would be extreamly painful...
EDIT: Ah, you already found the anti semitism thing. Well, it's to be expected from probably the majority of people who weren't Jewish in the early twentieth century (and nineteenth, eighteenth, etc.).
Brawly Likes to Brawl
Member
It's interesting that so many examples in this topic have been of Youtubers. Do you think that there's something about the culture or the requirements to gain fame on the platform that creates this phenomena?
LogicAirForce
Neo Member
holy shit, what
Messofanego
Banned
Presumably having religious worshippers to yourself and just a bunch of yes people who will defend you at every turn will make your ego skyrocket to overestimate what you can get away with.
JustSomeone
Member
I mean it's not that far fetched, Isis pretty much proves that. Genocide of course is a crazy idea, but that's just a fiction. There should be some sort of supervision on islam extremists that poision the minds of the masses.
This way of thinking certainly doesn't put him in the same line with racists/homophobes/misogynistics.
Random Human
They were trying to grab your prize. They work for the mercenary. The masked man.
Now this is a deep rabbit hole if you want to go down it.
edit: I see you already went down it
Brawly Likes to Brawl
Member
In order to maximize the viewer base you have on youtube, you have to adopt a persona that makes you come across as appealing to as many people as possible. This is why so many people get blindsided when someone's true nature slips through and the idea they have in their heads of someone being good-natured and likable gets shattered.
A lot of people attribute the success of channels like PewDiePie & Markiplier to being able to sell themselves as a close friend of the viewer, someone they can feel comfortable with as a physical companion. This sometimes causes cults of personality to form where will fans will feel obligated to defend against any criticism their icon faces. And other personalities on Youtube who should know better are apt to either stay silent or take a faux-centrist response out of fear that the overlap of viewerships will cause them to take a hit if they call anyone out.
WhateverItTakes
Banned
I reckon it's more of a case of back in the day, you needed the backing of a company or many people to gain any sort of fame. If you're a shithead you may get found out before you get a big platform. Meanwhile with YouTube there's no filtering process, so yeah more of these people are gonna show up.
I doubt it. Youtubers have no editorial filter to go through, but I don't think that normally makes much of a difference. The bigger factor, I believe, is the fact that compared to celebrities of yore Youtubers are far closer to their fans and have more direct lines of communication. Before Twitter there wasn't any particular way you'd find out some TV lead's objectionable views on "The Jewish Question" aside from maybe an interview that wouldn't be widely published or which would be hard to circulate even if it was.
Raylan Targaryen
Member
I was told at a young age to never meet your idols so I never really had any.
I've had a reverse (?) milkshake duck. I always thought Stone Cold was a super redneck, I mean that's who he was as a wrestler.
I've had a reverse (?) milkshake duck. I always thought Stone Cold was a super redneck, I mean that's who he was as a wrestler.
tonysidaway
Member
Having recently read the excellent first two Hyperion novels, I'm not too surprised. I was disappointed to find out that his answer to Abraham's moral dilemma was a cop-out in which the child chose to be sacrificed. It struck me as an answer to a question that only makes sense to those who are closely wedded to the notion that this quite repugnant folk tale represents an actual dialogue between a man and his God.
I find this just about acceptable in the context of a well written fantasy, but it tells me also that Dan Simmons and I view certain matters from very different viewpoints. I cannot be surprised if his religious views infect his general outlook in other ways that I find disturbing.
I'd still recommend Hyperion and Fall of Hyperion, because they are extremely well written. I think Anita Sarkeesian always makes a point that it's possible to enjoy an entertainment while recognising its problematic features, and I apply that principle here.
Definitely this one for me as well, I loved all of the Ender's Game books and even read his weird fantasy series. Finding out he's a huge asshole was pretty disappointing.
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