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[Cymbal Head]

So am I fine if I play Splatoon 2 ?
It's terrifying.

I mean "hippocampus" means seahorse so if anything Splatoon 2 should strengthen that.

 

[Neuro]

Somehow, someway, video games probably cause cancer.

As a market research analyst, I have seen differing data points proving the most irrational things. Numbers can always be manipulated to tell a story that you want and make them behave statistically significant.

What will reveal the true story is when they show in the report, what numbers have been included to come to a conclusion.

There is also something called massaging of data, where they essentially tweak certain numbers to ensure that a plausible trend/inference can be deduced.

 

[hydrophilic attack]

good thing fps is my least favourite genre

 

[SomTervo]

I feel like this study is years old and i made a thread about it

 

[JoeNut]

Damn why didn't i get asked to do this research, 90 hours of gaming

 

[Green Yoshi]

Nintendo should promote Super Mario Odyssey with this study. ;-)

 

[The Hamburglar]

Cod: neurological warfare

alzheimer's edition

 

[Conciliator]

scientists discover that posting on GAF at least 6 days a week causes brains to becom super smart and stuff

 

[Cymbal Head]

Cod: neurological warfare

alzheimer's edition

Setting the next COD inside someone's brain and having your character take out rogue tau proteins would be a surefire way of getting me to buy it.

 

[Weltall Zero]

Make up your mind scientists

A few years ago Study, shooters are good for you

Now Study 2, shooters are bad for you

Actually, this very study says it's both. It's "good" for autopilot and reward assesment, bad for creative thought and problem solving. That sounds about right to me.

 

[ozz ex machina]

Actually, this very study says it's both. It's "good" for autopilot and reward assesment, bad for creative thought and problem solving. That sounds about right to me.

It doesn't to me.

High level multiplayer like CS:GO is constant problem solving, decision making, communication and strategy.

I'd be interested to see a specific study on a competitive shooter.

 

[Audioboxer]

But yeah, that sample size is quite small and like most tests, they should now aim to repeat this multiple times, preferably with a larger sample and also some variation in conditions.

 

[bionic77]

It doesn't to me.

High level multiplayer like CS:GO is constant problem solving, decision making, communication and strategy.

I'd be interested to see a specific study on a competitive shooter.

I don't think it makes a difference for an adult. Your brain is developed by then.

But I don't think too much access to videogames or iPads is good for the development of young children. I am not sure Mario is any better for a 10 year old kid than COD.

 

[NimbusD]

Make up your mind scientists

A few years ago Study, shooters are good for you

Now Study 2, shooters are bad for you

Good thing that findings from a single study don't mean shit. Even mentioned within the article w a clickbait title.

 

[PK Gaming]

The article in the OP is both lacking in detail and somewhat misleading.

A different article on the same research makes things much clearer:

A new study suggests -- but doesn't prove -- that certain players of action video games may lose gray matter in a part of the brain that's linked to mental illness.

On the other hand, the Canadian study suggests, other players may actually benefit from the games.

And a psychologist not involved with the study said there's no evidence that video games are harmful to the brain.

The results indicate that the reported benefits of playing shooting-style video games -- such as improved attention and short-term memory -- "might come at a cost" in terms of lost brain matter in some players, said the study's lead author, Gregory West. He is an assistant professor with the department of psychology at the University of Montreal.

The difference may be the style of playing, the researchers noted.

The new study aimed to better understand the brain effects of so-called first-person and third-person shooting games -- such as Call of Duty, Battlefield, Killzone, or Medal of Honor -- compared to "3-D platform" games in the Super Mario series.

The researchers used a virtual-reality test, MRIs and 90 hours of game-playing involving 100 people who were either expert or nonexpert players. They also used MRIs to assess the impact on the hippocampus, the part of the brain that helps spatial and episodic memory.

The results showed evidence that gray matter in the hippocampus grew in those players who used so-called spatial strategies to find their way in the action video game. But the gray matter shrunk in those who navigated the same games by learned response.

Spatial players create maps in their heads to understand the geography of the world within the game, the researchers explained. And response players use an approach akin to learning a route that you travel every day -- make a right turn here, then a left, then a right -- so that you can drive on mental auto-pilot without thinking.

Those who played the Super Mario games, meanwhile, showed signs of growth in either the hippocampus or another part of the brain called the entorhinal cortex.

The study authors emphasized that they aren't saying that anyone who plays video games will develop a mental illness.

"But we know that those with less gray matter in the hippocampus are more at risk to get conditions like schizophrenia, post-traumatic stress disorder, depression and Alzheimer's disease," said study co-author Veronique Bohbot. She is an associate professor with the department of psychiatry at McGill University in Montreal.

A video game expert called brain studies of game players problematic.

"Given that there are so many areas in the brain, it stands to reason that, by chance alone, some of these areas may randomly differ between any two groups of people," said Chris Ferguson, a professor of psychology with Stetson University in DeLand, Fla.

"Researchers can sometimes make a big deal out of these random differences and ascribe them to something like video games," he said.

Ferguson noted that overall brain research into the effects of the games hasn't revealed problems.

"Despite some wild headlines and press releases from time to time, the research suggests that video game playing is entirely safe for the brain," Ferguson said.

"The aggregate of studies have not suggested that playing video games, even 'violent' ones, cause either short- or long-term brain changes that are problematic or could be called 'brain damage,' " he added.

"Most studies also don't connect the brain differences to actual behavior. So brain studies often function like Rorschach cards, telling you more about what the researchers want to believe than anything actually happening with human behavior," Ferguson suggested.

What should video game players do? Study lead author West suggests that adults play shooter games for only two to three hours a week.

Ferguson noted that research is hinting that video games may reduce stress and improve problem-solving abilities.

"Playing video games should be balanced with other activities: offline socialization, exercise, work and school, family and good sleep," he said. "As long as games are part of a balanced lifestyle, there's no evidence that they cause harmful brain changes."

source

TL;DR:

• There is no causation between brain damage and playing shooters.
• Playing shooters in a certain way (ie: autopilot) may cause negative effects on the brain.
• On the other hand, playing those very same shooters by applying spatial strategies (ie: thinking of the map layout, not mindlessly shooting at things, getting gud) can actually provide beneficial effects.
• Mario games are good for the brain in general..

So not only does playing on autopilot make you a bad player, it possibly has negative effects on the brain (lol)

 

[Cymbal Head]

Looks like the research article itself is paywalled, but I think I was able to find a preprint buried in someone's dissertation on Google Scholar.

For anybody who's interested.

 

[gypsygib]

What does watching TV do?

 

[LordKasual]

The region acts as a form of “autopilot” and also regulates humans’ understanding of reward.

This is the first thing i expected when i thought about what kind of "damage" it could possibly cause.

Once you get good in shooters, alot of the actual playing outside of manuvering are twitch reactions.

but this probably means nothing

 

[Serpens007]

Me are brain damagad? Unposiible!


Good clarification on the study though. So if there is something, it all comes from how you tackle the games uh. Wonder if there's something else that determines how people decide to either autopilot or be creative.

 

[FantasticMrSnake]

so, what about Mario shooting hats?! D:
Is that good or bad?

 

[Annubis]

So Mario can cure brains...

Somehow someway this deepens its lore.

Well, he is a doctor.

 

[isaacnukem]

But does this include Elder Scrolls and Fallout?

 

[Sulik2]

This might explain why so many people struggled with the platforming sections in the Destiny raids lol.

Still, we know everything we do affects our brain in some way, learning how games and all media affect it is important.

 

[bionic77]

What does watching TV do?

I am sure too much tv is not good for the development of a child's brain either.

The things that are good for your brain are generally not things that are fun to do (i.e. reading, writing, discussing things critically, etc).

Again I don't think if you are an adult you would have to worry about these things as much.

 

[Cyanity]

Talk about hyperbole, OP

 

[takriel]

3D platformers reign supreme once again!

 

[ScepticMatt]

British scientists have cautioned against drawing firm conclusions from the study, highlighting the small number of participants.

 

[Temp_User]

This is a world-wide conspiracy by FPS developers and their evil paymasters to rob the world of its intellect. I say we burn each and every one of them at the stake.

Spoiler

/s

 

[Salvatron]

"Scientists behind the research". Would hardly give these people the title of scientists and you can't really call this shoddy gathering as research.

Perhaps a group of them got caught having a giant LAN party in the office and decided to spin it as a 'study' to placate the higher-ups.

 

[Nitpicker_Red]

http://phdcomics.com/comics/archive.php?comicid=1174

That's not a cycle? It's presented visually as a cycle but it's describing a linear process...

 

[shandy706]

Dark Souls wins again

Your brain just dies of boredom. It's how zombies start.

Sounds like being well rounded wins as usual.

 

[Akuun]

deleted

 

[Octavia]

So if the entire takaway is that repetitive tasks that require little active thinking may stagnate the brain, rpgs, MMOs, and minecraft like games would be far worse offenders because of grinding. Then again, driving on a highway is the real deathsentence and sort of unavoidable.

 

[Fury451]

Ninety hours of playing shooter games tended to lead to hippocampus atrophy, however playing for the same duration on 3D challenges, which rely more on spatial orientation instinctive responses, increased grey matter within the hippocampal memory system.

How?

Since when do FPS not rely on spatial orientation and instinctive responses?

 

[Daphnes Nohansen Hyrule]

I feel ill every time i play doom 2016

 

[Octavia]

How?

Since when do FPS not rely on spatial orientation and instinctive responses?

Study just sounds completely bogus honestly.

 

[Forward]

now look what grows with jrpgs.

Disappointment.

 

[horkrux]

They should have tested Diablo. Last time I played D3 I felt like my brain was put into standby while I was clicking hordes of monster to death.

 

[YankeeDonB]

Actually, this very study says it's both. It's "good" for autopilot and reward assesment, bad for creative thought and problem solving. That sounds about right to me.

Yup. As an actual neuroscientist, who's actually studied the caudate and the hippocampus (albeit in carnivores, not humans), important to understand that reduction in size of one structure and linked increase in size in a related structure is NOT "brain damage," nor uniformly bad news. The brain is, in many ways, plastic, even in adults, and given the high metabolic cost of resting brain tissue, will adjust to maximize resources in the systems that are most used.

W/ a very broad brush, simple, goal-driven problem solving will rely on the reward learning processes supported in part by the caudate, while more complex 3D navigation will obviously rely more on the experiential/spatial representational role of the hippocampus. Do more of one and the related brain networks (always more complicated than structures) will become more robust. Sure, you might have a slight growth in size (brain typically not adding new cell bodies in adults, but can produce new axonal processes and the like), but the real change is going to be in connectivity profile of these structures. Often, there's an ongoing push/pull between related structures, a type of neural competition for resources that will be adjudicated in large part by experience.

Clearly simple goal-directed learning and more complex 3D spatial representations are both important for all mammals, or we wouldn't all have caudate nuclei and hippocampuses. Whether one is more important than the other will depend on situation.

While we might tend to associate simple goal-directed reward learning with problems like addiction, impulsivity, ADHD, etc., and that's not wrong, a deficit in reward learning wouldn't necessarily be a good thing. Balance in all things.

Also, there's no way this is specific to shooters -- it's going to be a factor of the simplicity and direct nature of the reward loops involved. Most mobile gaming will no doubt have the same (or even greater) effect.

Side bar, because the knee jerk reaction of enthusiasts to stories like this is to say something like "rabble rabble, underpowered," this is actually a pretty reasonable study size GIVEN the experimental design. They weren't trying to pull some correlational measure or longitudinal series of measures out of a complex sample. They actually assigned subjects to do one of two things, and this produced a measurable difference. 100 subjects for a controlled fMRI study is FINE to establish a likely effect. Obviously if you want more nuance about the variance, other factors, etc., you need to replicate and expand.

 

[sixteen-bit]

So if the entire takaway is that repetitive tasks that require little active thinking may stagnate the brain, rpgs, MMOs, and minecraft like games would be far worse offenders because of grinding. Then again, driving on a highway is the real deathsentence and sort of unavoidable.

Really puts things into perspective.

This thread has me thinking of my own mortality something fierce.

 

[adamsapple]

British scientists have cautioned against drawing firm conclusions from the study, highlighting the small number of participants.

Well ... this should be the header .. not the footer of any research article making such a scathing statement.

 

[Madame M]

This is not how science works. Now get back to school!

Good advice, just remind people not to go to the University of Montreal.

 

[llien]

recruited 51 men and 46 women

for a total of 90 hours.

scanned the brains of habitual players of action video games and compared them to non-players

That's one impressive study.

Yup. As an actual neuroscientist, who's actually studied the caudate and the hippocampus (albeit in carnivores, not humans), important to understand that reduction in size of one structure and linked increase in size in a related structure is NOT "brain damage," nor uniformly bad news. The brain is, in many ways, plastic, even in adults, and given the high metabolic cost of resting brain tissue, will adjust to maximize resources in the systems that are most used.

W/ a very broad brush, simple, goal-driven problem solving will rely on the reward learning processes supported in part by the caudate, while more complex 3D navigation will obviously rely more on the experiential/spatial representational role of the hippocampus. Do more of one and the related brain networks (always more complicated than structures) will become more robust. Sure, you might have a slight growth in size (brain typically not adding new cell bodies in adults, but can produce new axonal processes and the like), but the real change is going to be in connectivity profile of these structures. Often, there's an ongoing push/pull between related structures, a type of neural competition for resources that will be adjudicated in large part by experience.

Clearly simple goal-directed learning and more complex 3D spatial representations are both important for all mammals, or we wouldn't all have caudate nuclei and hippocampuses. Whether one is more important than the other will depend on situation.

While we might tend to associate simple goal-directed reward learning with problems like addiction, impulsivity, ADHD, etc., and that's not wrong, a deficit in reward learning wouldn't necessarily be a good thing. Balance in all things.

Also, there's no way this is specific to shooters -- it's going to be a factor of the simplicity and direct nature of the reward loops involved. Most mobile gaming will no doubt have the same (or even greater) effect.

Side bar, because the knee jerk reaction of enthusiasts to stories like this is to say something like "rabble rabble, underpowered," this is actually a pretty reasonable study size GIVEN the experimental design. They weren't trying to pull some correlational measure or longitudinal series of measures out of a complex sample. They actually assigned subjects to do one of two things, and this produced a measurable difference. 100 subjects for a controlled fMRI study is FINE to establish a likely effect. Obviously if you want more nuance about the variance, other factors, etc., you need to replicate and expand.

Thanks!

 

[GodofWine]

Maybe I could get a study done on my brain, I sit in front of spreadsheets and formulas all day, maybe I NEED to play more FPS's to offset the decline in my whatever it was that gets used more.

That would be great, taking a legit sick day due to blaming my job for atrophying one part of my brain that can be restored by playing shooters.

 

[Earendil]

What about games like Zelda or Horizon? I don't play shooters, but I play a lot of action/adventure games, as well as racing games.

 

[Fury451]

Study just sounds completely bogus honestly.

Just saw This post further up-

The article in the OP is both lacking in detail and somewhat misleading.

A different article on the same research makes things much clearer:






source

TL;DR:

• There is no causation between brain damage and playing shooters.
• Playing shooters in a certain way (ie: autopilot) may cause negative effects on the brain.
• On the other hand, playing those very same shooters by applying spatial strategies (ie: thinking of the map layout, not mindlessly shooting at things, getting gud) can actually provide beneficial effects.
• Mario games are good for the brain in general..

So not only does playing on autopilot make you a bad player, it possibly has negative effects on the brain (lol)

It does clarify it quite a bit, the original conclusions drawn in the OP article seem to be sensationalist, as are most conclusions for articles of this type for headline purposes.

 

[Swarna]

I can see how hours and hours of how a typical person plays Call of Duty can make you go braindead. Mindless running and gunning, prestiging, with the only thinking you're doing is regards to loot box management.

 

[Kalamari]

Maybe this is why some people like simple games where they can "turn their brain off" and play. As opposed to other genres that requires more thought and intuition.

But seriously, what's the point of doing a study if you can't get an appropriate sample size. Scientists gotta eat I guess.

 

[Shifty]

Well shit, I've been meaning to try out 3D World.

 

[grfunkulus]

I don't understand what's inherently different between a shooter and a platformer. This is even more complex when you assess games like Titanfall which are a hybrid.

This. I don't understand how a universal 'shooters are bad because all you do is run forward, spray and play' can be applied to the genre anymore. With the exception of battlefield, most of these games feature advanced movement systems nowadays akin to platforming. And all GAF wants is boots on the ground. Battlefield and other slower paced shooters are favored by 'real' gamers but black ops 3 and Titanfall present more of a stimulating experience in terms of solving spatial puzzles? Never made sense to me but ok