https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvXssTtSj_0
I am not a Fareed fan but it is still interesting.
So what do you think?
I am not a Fareed fan but it is still interesting.
So what do you think?
-
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Reflecting on why Hillary Clinton lost
- Thread starter Exile20
- Start date
HellforLeather
Member
Care to sum up his findings for those of us at work or cant watch the video?
Basically the Comey Letter, losing the white working class votes, the undecided switched at the last minute to Trump, people normally chose people they identify with rather than policy. The polls didn't really get it wrong, it was within margin of error, it was just that all the polls had Clinton ahead but trump was still a possibility. It went from 6-1 to 3-1.
Earthbound64
Banned
So: Many reasons?
SodiumBenzoate
Member
I think this is really the big one.
So white women identified more with a braindead senile white man than an accomplished white woman?
A lot of them
This is fucking terrifying that they chose Trump.
Hero_of_the_Day
Member
Well, of course.
BassForever
Member
"He's just like us" I could retire if I got a dollar everytime I heard that IRL
Nazgul_Hunter
Member
Yes. They basically played prevent the moment Trump won the nomination.
yea, that billionaire that literally has a golden bath tub is just like the average joe working construction.
jack_package_200
Banned
Yep it was multiple reasons with her control and outside her control that she lost.
Jag
Member
I think he got alot of protest votes because people just hated Hillary that much. Many of the people I know that didn't or voted Trump did so as a fuck you thinking he would be harmless. I was just blown away on election day.
I hated Hillary and voted for her. I tried my hardest to convince people to vote for her anyway.
I hated Hillary and voted for her. I tried my hardest to convince people to vote for her anyway.
Always happy that I have never heard someone I know say that not in jest.
clevbrowns94
Member
Swing state polls were off. At least, I never saw a poll saying Trump would win in Wisconsin (granted he won by less than 1 percent).
Here's a simple answer (I will say that the Comey letter alone probably cost the election given that in came down to 70k votes in 3 states), Trump was the least unfavorable GOP candidate in years, and the Dems put up the least favorable candidate for their party in years. Probably anyone else could have beat Trump, Biden would have beaten him by a good margin, for example.
Cesare Borgia
Banned
A mixture of things. An incredibly flawed, uninspiring candidate. Puzzling campaign decisions (abandoning the midwest/assuming it was in the bag). Third term fatigue. The Comey letter, while damaging, seems like an excuse that waves away the institutional issues Clinton had. That one last brick, on a wall of shit, crumbled it...but the wall wasn't sound to begin with.
Hey now, Trump is a blue collar billionaire. He's just like one of us, see?
I didn't particularly care for Hillary, and I warned people that it was dangerous nominating someone with so little charisma, but middle- and working-class voters who identified more with Trump are shockingly stupid. Welcome to America, land of temporarily embarrassed millionaires, eh?
Rockandrollclown
lookwhatyou'vedone
I heard that less, and more "He's not a politician".
-Plasma Reus-
Service guarantees member status
The only reason she lost was:
1. The media vastly underestimated the stupidity of a large section of the American populace.
2. An election system where the person with the most votes doesn't win the election.
1. The media vastly underestimated the stupidity of a large section of the American populace.
2. An election system where the person with the most votes doesn't win the election.
It's sad that both Al Gore and Hillary Clinton (both who would have been great Presidents with real goals and outlined plans) lost because they weren't cool enough. I guess we know now for sure that policy is no longer essential and isn't even really necessary. Doubly sad because they were chosen by the people instead of an antiquated and outdated system.
The hate for Clinton was just too strong. People were willing to elect a twitter babbling pussy grabber with no clue about politics instead of a woman with decades of experience in politics. I should have seen it myself since nobody I knew in my real life had a positive opinion about Hillary but I thought people would make the reasonable choice in the end, but I was very wrong.
QuantumZebra
Member
Which as an Atlanta Falcons fan I know is a recipe for fucking disaster
Kind of amazed im mentally stable after the Super Bowl followed the Election.
im not sure im mentally stable
But she won the popular vote.
Lists two reasons
tearsintherain
Member
Hillary lost because she lost in 3 states she thought were in the bag and didn't bother campaigning that hard in those 3 in the last few weeks -- Wisconsin, Michigan, and Pennsylvania. All states Obama won both times. Trump got pretty much the same numbers as Romney did in all 3 states, however Hillary LOST voters in every state compared to Obama turnout. In every one of those states the margins were tiny.
https://news.vice.com/story/hillary...-democrats-in-key-states-didnt-bother-to-vote
In the final weeks of the campaign Hillary campaigned hard in places like Arizona because the DNC thought they could convert a few red states to blue and pick up a few senate/house seats to increase Clinton's "mandate".
http://www.cnn.com/2016/10/28/politics/hillary-clinton-campaign-arizona/index.html
All in all an extremely stupid campaign run by really out of touch people led by a candidate who lost because she didn't know the country she wanted to be President of. Her husband, one of the greatest politicians of the 20th century, pleaded with her and her staff to focus on blue collar and white workers and they completely ignored him.
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/b...in-white-working-class-voters/article/2607228
His comments in Michigan marked the last leg of a lonely, one-man war he launched earlier in the election to appeal to working-class and white rural voters, whom senior Clinton staffers reportedly told him were not worth the time or effort.
In the final days of the 2016 election, Hillary Clinton and her team of proxies stuck to three key talking points: That she has the resume to be president, that it would be progressive to vote for a woman and that Donald Trump is unfit to lead.
https://news.vice.com/story/hillary...-democrats-in-key-states-didnt-bother-to-vote
In the final weeks of the campaign Hillary campaigned hard in places like Arizona because the DNC thought they could convert a few red states to blue and pick up a few senate/house seats to increase Clinton's "mandate".
http://www.cnn.com/2016/10/28/politics/hillary-clinton-campaign-arizona/index.html
All in all an extremely stupid campaign run by really out of touch people led by a candidate who lost because she didn't know the country she wanted to be President of. Her husband, one of the greatest politicians of the 20th century, pleaded with her and her staff to focus on blue collar and white workers and they completely ignored him.
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/b...in-white-working-class-voters/article/2607228
His comments in Michigan marked the last leg of a lonely, one-man war he launched earlier in the election to appeal to working-class and white rural voters, whom senior Clinton staffers reportedly told him were not worth the time or effort.
In the final days of the 2016 election, Hillary Clinton and her team of proxies stuck to three key talking points: That she has the resume to be president, that it would be progressive to vote for a woman and that Donald Trump is unfit to lead.
teruterubozu
Member
Let's not confuse the popular vote as being popular. Lots of people held their nose and pulled the lever.
I work in a predominately white environment and everyone voted for Trump. These are people I consider smart but it doesn't matter. It always boggled my mind that they voted or I should say hire someone that is dumb as rocks. Like would they hire Trump if they interviewed him? Hell no but they still voted for Trump. I just don't get it.
Well, if this is what he said then I suppose I agree with him on most of those points, particularly the supremacy of identity over policy.
hikarutilmitt
Member
Please don't. Just, please, don't.
This. I remember that government (Social Studies when I was a kid) was indeed taught in school growing up. The system was still barely explained, but it was enough to know why it existed and what it did. I still didn't agree with it totally at the time until I went to college and got a 100% explanation of it. At this point all I see about "the electoral college is dumb" is just uninformed nonsense. To remove it in lieu of straight popular vote would be more damaging, as a much larger population of the country lives in cities than not, and a much larger number of major cities are liberal than conservative.
DizzyCaffeine
Member
The Electoral College needs to go. It's antiquated and Republicans keep using it to screw over Democrats.
VendettaRed07
Member
People continue to overlook Bill being a liability is what brought the Comey heat on in the first place. He blatantly said that's why he became so vocal and that he almost appointed a special prosecutor because of his fuckery during his testimony
Maybe don't compromise a sitting AG while a presidential candidate is under FBI investigation next time. It isn't a good idea.
Maybe don't compromise a sitting AG while a presidential candidate is under FBI investigation next time. It isn't a good idea.
QuantumZebra
Member
As much as people like to dogpile Moore, dude is spot-the-fuck-on.
Relentless 757
Member
I view the electoral college as a massively flawed Democratic voting institution. However, the amount of people ill informed about how the electoral college is staggering. This is why government should be required in school.
The popular vote has never mattered. People shouldn't be shocked by this. It matters where the vote is, not how many votes.
You can argue this is a shitty institution, I agree. But, it works as intended.
Wishful thinking makes up a big part of peoples' decisions.
soundscream
Member
Winner Winner Chicken Dinner
Baraka in the White House
2-Terms of Kombat
The more I read about the campaign and the history surrounding Hillary Clinton the more convinced I become that she fell victim to one HELL of a fucking hatchet job decades in the making.
yanipheonu
Member
We like to play the blame game, but I propose the existential nightmare that Trump could have literally just gotten lucky.
Not saying Clinton didn't screw things up, and Trump didn't make gains in certain ways, but the election was close enough that I wonder if it isn't just a matter of how the votes went down that particular day.
Though even then, I'm sure Comey wasn't a non-factor for such a thing.
Not saying Clinton didn't screw things up, and Trump didn't make gains in certain ways, but the election was close enough that I wonder if it isn't just a matter of how the votes went down that particular day.
Though even then, I'm sure Comey wasn't a non-factor for such a thing.
Polls collapsed in the wake of the Comey letter. The very last ones pre-election caught it, but by then it was too late to react.
The Shadow
Member
She wasn't well-liked, which made her a terrible candidate to prop up against another terrible candidate. Anecdotally, everyone I knew who voted for her specifically would say things like, "Lesser of two evils" or "Anything but Trump". I know two friends-of-friends that were true Clinton believers and post election, one remains a true-believer and constantly blames "Bernie-bros" for her loss, the other has flipped, and thinks that Bernie would have won.
Pre-election popularity
Post-election popularity (Just last month)
I mean seriously. Even after all the shit Trump did, people still find her unlikable.
On top of all this as well. Lots of mistakes were made. LOTS. Which tend to get ignored in threads like this.
You're literally surrounded by white supremacists, have a good day
Joe T.
Member
I had this on in the background last night and I thought Fareed did a good job of explaining the various reasons that led to Trump's win, including his ability to relate to the working class.
"There's a very important distinction between rich entrepreneurs - people who create companies, make things and employ people - and professionals. People in the working class, or people who voted for Trump, don't mind billionaires, but they mind our bossy professionals: teachers, lawyers, journalists who seem to want to tell them what to do or seem to want to tell them how to act."
Anyone that says it was only one reason is flat out wrong. That being said, she would've won had one of those reasons not been present.
family_guy
Member
The ones who thought she was talking about them are the ones who wouldn't have voted for her anyway.