Admiral Woofington
Member
Bran's character is now here to be Oracle honestly.
I'm waiting for him to like talk to the guys via telepathy and do research on Winternet over the targets and locations.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
*UNMARKED SPOILERS ALL BOOKS* Game of Thrones |OT| - Season 7 - Sundays on HBO
- Thread starter Cornballer
- Start date
Bran's character is now here to be Oracle honestly.
I'm waiting for him to like talk to the guys via telepathy and do research on Winternet over the targets and locations.
Three straight episodes without Rory McCann. -_-
It's not just that. Episode 3 featured some contrived conflict between the two to get the endorphins going. Dany got to make another power speech. Jon got to posture in opposition. Episode 4's already forcing the romance angle with boy/girl talk when they aren't around each other and intimate eye gazing when they are.
It's not just that. Episode 3 featured some contrived conflict between the two to get the endorphins going. Dany got to make another power speech. Jon got to posture in opposition. Episode 4's already forcing the romance angle with boy/girl talk when they aren't around each other and intimate eye gazing when they are.
The dialog has definitely taken a downturn since it left book territory, but even season 4 as "terrible"? Tyrion's string of cell visits are some of my favorite dialog scenes in the show.
I didn't like his lack of explanation to Sansa last episode, obviously just saying he's the Three Eyed Raven is completely meaningless to her. But he gave an actual explanation in this episode that works for me, and I enjoyed both the Littlefinger and Meera scenes. Less so the Stark reunion. I don't mind losing the "real" Bran, he wasn't that developed a character to start with and I think his current condition (and what he did to Hodor especially) is interesting... and not exactly conventional while that topic is up.
I do fear he will only be used to reveal plot information at this point without much more exploration into the condition though.
I was far more put off a couple episodes ago by Arya being distant with Hot Pie when she had just been relatively normal with Lannister soldiers and has been since.
I didn't like his lack of explanation to Sansa last episode, obviously just saying he's the Three Eyed Raven is completely meaningless to her. But he gave an actual explanation in this episode that works for me, and I enjoyed both the Littlefinger and Meera scenes. Less so the Stark reunion. I don't mind losing the "real" Bran, he wasn't that developed a character to start with and I think his current condition (and what he did to Hodor especially) is interesting... and not exactly conventional while that topic is up.
I do fear he will only be used to reveal plot information at this point without much more exploration into the condition though.
This season ist the best and the worst of GoT compressed so far.
It has awesome dialog and story approaches and the worst mingled together in fewer episodes.
I was pretty cold on the first two episodes and came to the conclusion that the series will be like that from now on. Checkmarking all the important events that are still to come and pairing up the characters left. All that coupled with some bad and some good action scenes. I'm not a fan of Euron. At. All. The action scene was one of the worst in the whole series so far. From a logic and directing standpoint. Every time his fleet is on screen, I seem to be watching PotC with teleporting Ghost Ships.
3-4 were some of that, but the writing felt so much better. We get some conclusions to stories long gone and allusions to fighting scenes back in the first seasons. I don't have to see every battle on a moderate budget - the Lannister/Tyrell battle and some of the Unsullied/Rock was pretty much what I like to see in the show. It's more about some strategy before and the interactions after the fight for me.
But I'll be damnded if the Dragon scene wasn't well done. It looked amazing and was very well shot and thought out. I didn't think we'd get something like this in the middle of a season.
And I was not expecting a reaction from Kid Harrington that i bought. It was awesome seeing him react to the Dragon for the first time. That was the first emotion on his face in forever! Same for Sansa, it's nice seeing her acting a little bit.
And since we're moving so fast, we are most likely over the silly side plots for the sake of the show that didn't fit or work out that well.
It has awesome dialog and story approaches and the worst mingled together in fewer episodes.
I was pretty cold on the first two episodes and came to the conclusion that the series will be like that from now on. Checkmarking all the important events that are still to come and pairing up the characters left. All that coupled with some bad and some good action scenes. I'm not a fan of Euron. At. All. The action scene was one of the worst in the whole series so far. From a logic and directing standpoint. Every time his fleet is on screen, I seem to be watching PotC with teleporting Ghost Ships.
3-4 were some of that, but the writing felt so much better. We get some conclusions to stories long gone and allusions to fighting scenes back in the first seasons. I don't have to see every battle on a moderate budget - the Lannister/Tyrell battle and some of the Unsullied/Rock was pretty much what I like to see in the show. It's more about some strategy before and the interactions after the fight for me.
But I'll be damnded if the Dragon scene wasn't well done. It looked amazing and was very well shot and thought out. I didn't think we'd get something like this in the middle of a season.
And I was not expecting a reaction from Kid Harrington that i bought. It was awesome seeing him react to the Dragon for the first time. That was the first emotion on his face in forever! Same for Sansa, it's nice seeing her acting a little bit.
And since we're moving so fast, we are most likely over the silly side plots for the sake of the show that didn't fit or work out that well.
The Artisan
Member
If the budget was higher, perhaps it would've been a full 10 episodes. As I understand it the season is running on the same budget as the previous season.
I find that unlikely, the big actors are getting nearly $2 million per episode, each - as their contracts were originally set for six seasons, they are all understandably cashing in
Combine that with the fact that we've already had a naval battle, and dragon battle, and still have three episodes left? I would think for certain the budget has gone up a bit, even despite the shortened season
I'm sure the same thing will happen for season 8 as well, HBO knows they have the opportunity to send this series out with a bang - and I suspect one or two of the last episodes of season 8 to be absolutely bonkers in terms of production
The Artisan
Member
I'm not all that disappointed with this season given the circumstances but I don't think it would've been unreasonable for HBO to bump the budget from $100 to $150 million
HeisenbergLannister
Member
So, what exactly did Jamie expect when he yelled at everyone to "TAKE COVER!" from the dragonfire?
The Artisan
Member
I suppose whatever any commander would expect to have to say to their men, knowing fate has been sealed
A lot of TV critics are no better than fanboys, glossing over any negative the show they've been watching for a half-a-decade might have. This applies to a wide variety of TV shows, the more popular they are the worse this shit is. At least that's what it seems to me.
IggyChooChoo
Member
I am pretty curious to see how the show handles Euron. Either they are going to do a big surprise reveal about his magical side, and his relationship to the White Walkers and the coming apocalypse he wants to use as a ladder to godhood, or they are about to *seriously* diverge from the books. Because while he's pretty cool in the books, on tv they are going to have to work to make him not come off as Pirates of the Caribbean, like you say. Krakens and squid faces and dead men underwater might not work at all for the show. But as he is he's not even as scary as Ramsay. Maybe there'll be an episode along the lines of the Forsaken chapter, only with Yara instead of Aeron Damphair, to establish his warlock bonafides. Because he is pretty clearly going to be a primary magical antagonist to Dany and her dragons in the books, IMO -- certainly more so than Cersei.
Ros8105
Member
The real Protector of the Realm, Slayer of Dragons, Killer of Dothraki shits.
ClosingADoor
Member
Teleport spell at the least.
MudoSkills
Volcano High Alumnus (Cum Laude)
He has magic, he has magical artifacts, he has wizards on his crew. Show Euron is like show Dorne in comparison to the books.
It's a working theory that he either used magic to create the storm that killed Balon or hired the Faceless Men to do the deed. In the show you saw him toss him off the bridge, and when Yara asked if he did it he pretty much said 'Yes. Suck my big northern cock.' A little less mysterious.
ResidentWeevil13
Member
I think reviewers and a lot of casual fans never really understood or cared about the intricacies of the plot. They showed up because their friends were watching it, and it was the cool new show. They think the show is the same it's always been. Cool adult LOTR-like TV juxtaposed with boring exposition scenes that they tune out for.
IggyChooChoo
Member
If you want to read about Euron's relationship to the coming apocalypse, this is the site that did all the digging:
http://poorquentyn.tumblr.com/post/152408489218/can-i-ask-what-the-eldritch-apocalypse-theory-is
dead souls
Member
Yep, and HBO still has a cachet that their drama development hasn't deserved in years.
I mean critics treated a complete mediocrity like Westworld as though it was a well done show with something to say.
The Artisan
Member
I agree with this. The dialogue and the lack thereof is definitely a step down from previous seasons. I would think that perhaps the critics are just wowed by so much else that it outweighs the dialogue and I feel the same way about that however - you cannot just ignore the bad dialogue. If critics do that then it's just straight up bias. Enjoy the show, but don't be blinded by it, definitely still critique it.
peanutbutterlatte
Member
You using the word "legitimately" doesn't make it anything other than your opinion.
Puck Beaverton
Banned
this is true
DarkJediKnight
Member
I wonder where they will go with the Azor Ahai prophecy. We've been seeing it since Season 2 with Stannis pulling the burning sword.
Now in Season 7, they bring it up once again. I wonder if they're going to make Jon Snow kill Denarys to create Lightbringer - and make it so that only the Lightbringer sword can kill the Night King.
Now in Season 7, they bring it up once again. I wonder if they're going to make Jon Snow kill Denarys to create Lightbringer - and make it so that only the Lightbringer sword can kill the Night King.
Nah, I just want characters to face consequences for their actions.
I think you over rating dialogue you are familiar with? Most books fans just feel lost without references so are striking out at things on the show that they accept in the books.
"Teleporting" is a prevalent in the books as it is in the show. Bad dialogue is all over the books. Plot contrivances happen all the time in the books.
We had it in the last couple of episodes "those hacks D&D making dick jokes, so out of place, anachronisms!!!" except there are dick jokes in the books. Stop putting the books on a pedestal and open your eyes to the huge flaws.
Not a single part of show Euron makes any sense whatsoever. He built an impossibly large fleet in an impossibly short amount of time. He teleports that fleet around the world at will, which also has magical stealth capabilities, and shoots magical fireballs.
Not a single fucking thing that Euron has done has been earned. They haven't even tried to earn it. He's nothing more than Euron Ex Machina, a magical plot device to prevent Cersei from being immediately and decisively stomped. He makes Ramsay and his 20 good men look like Shakespeare by comparison.
Not a single fucking thing that Euron has done has been earned. They haven't even tried to earn it. He's nothing more than Euron Ex Machina, a magical plot device to prevent Cersei from being immediately and decisively stomped. He makes Ramsay and his 20 good men look like Shakespeare by comparison.
higgsboson1997
Member
It has been very well written in my opinion.
The beats in the battle are part of the writing too. Along with that, all the conversations have been great, with some standouts for me being Jaime and Olenna, Cersei and Ellaria, and everything in Dragonstone in episode 3.
This is the best written season along with Season 3 in my opinion.
2, 4, and 5 were the worst written seasons I think, though they were all still pretty great. 2 in particular completely bungled Jon and Dany's arc, which made it the worst one for me. Dorne was pretty bad in Season 5, but at least it wasn't a huge plot.
Honestly yeah the show should explore magic at least a bit with euron as I think most viewers are questioning his fireballs and teleporting. Of if they aren't they are stupid. Seriously the fireballs he has essentially makes the dragons useless. And how the fuck did he build soany ships so quickly. Like at least a quick attempt at some explanation would be cool.
Ocarina_117
Banned
Jon tells dany about white walkers
Dany goes off on a tangent about her past
The conversation held no logical structure. Worst part of the episode for me. The writing has been poor since season 4. Season 5, the worst by far. 6 was an improvement, but still poor relative to the first 4 seasons. So far 7 has been very messy as the show is fast tracking to an end.
What has Euron done to earn the things he has in the books? Most the stuff he claims to have done happens off page. He literally turns up out of nowhere with a dragon horn, a concept never mentioned previously. It doesn't get more Deus Ex Machina than that.
If I remember right D&D wanted to finish the series with a 10 episode season 7, but HBO wanted a season 8, that's why we have 7 and 6 episode seasons. So it's not about budget, the writers just wanna move on, but HBO didn't let them.
And all the hate D&D gets, people should understand that it's not easy for them. They signed up to adapt books, and probably didn't expect the books to just stop coming out. So now they have to write the show without any source material while getting hate from the bookreaders, it's no wonder they wanted to finish it.
Ocarina_117
Banned
Blowing the horn results in a painful death, as far as we know. So it isn't exactly Deus Ex Machina as of yet.
Magical horns have been a concept, introduced early on with the horn that can destroy the wall. I think Sam still has the horn in old town. Euron could come in possession of it soon.
higgsboson1997
Member
I didn't see a structuring problem with that scene at all - I thought it was very effective in showing the struggles both sides faced in getting each other to accept their viewpoints.
And the first few seasons, just like the last 3, had their fair share of problems. Craster's keep, Jon's abrupt scene with Qhorin, the entirety of The Night Lands (the worst episode of the show), the scene where Jojen gets stabbed, Littlefinger's scene in the brother, the heavy-handed exposition in season 1 - there were flaws in those seasons as well. I personally don't see any more flaws in the later seasons compared to them.
Ocarina_117
Banned
Neither had accepted the others view point by the end of the conversation. Jon conveys his frustration in his next scene. Dany only accepts it after the super convenient cave scene, which was bollocks imho. The forced romance has also been a low point this season "I've noticed you looking at her good heart."
Jojen getting stabbed wasn't as bad as the bad pussies murdering the Martell family. I don't recall much heavy handed exposition from season 1, not as heavy handed as the previously mentioned cave scene at least.
I guess if you enjoy the last few seasons more than the earlier ones, we both look for completely different things in entertainment. There's nothing wrong with that.
Are there really dick jokes on the book at the level of "Dickon? Lol"? Stuff like the fat pink mast is treated like a joke by the fanbase but it's not meant to be a joke in the books.
Wait, so stuff that happened before the main story began is Deus Ex Machina? Robert's Rebellion? Rhaegar and Lyanna? Oberyn's life before King's Landing? None of that stuff is earned to you?
Napalm_Frank
Member
I'm still awaiting for ''pink mast'' to be uttered in the show.
No but a barely mentioned character coming into prominence with an out of the blue ultimate weapon is not good writing. He has no grounding in the story.
CopperPuppy
Member
I don't think you know what deus ex machina means.
And now I don't think you've read the books very closely.
You probably don't like Harry Potter much either, huh?
I get what you're saying but it made sense (to me) within the confines of the story. Dude got banished, sailed around the world, and learned all sorts of dark things. He's similar to Oberyn except taken to an even further extreme (which makes sense because Euron seems like an inherently fucked-up guy).
And I don't think the dragonhorn is quite what it appears to be. It seems to have a temporary mind-control effect (given that people cheered Euron after it was blown, even Aeron), but that wouldn't be enough to steal a dragon. We'll see!
Technically, Euron hasn't DONE anything in the books yet. He talks a lot, has a lot of cool toys, and basically presents himself as a pirate warlock. But... he hasn't done a single thing of note yet. So how can he be a deus ex machina? Like, what exactly is he a shortcut for in the books? He's just another colorful character among dozens who won't amount to anything of value because there won't be any more books.
Ocarina_117
Banned
The magic horn he gave Victarion clearly does something magical. He is a shortcut for exploring the ruins of Valyria, it would have been interesting to explore the ruins and see what is going on, where he found the horn and where he got his other toys.
Like in the show if he turned up at the Kings Moot with 1000 ships, pirated from all over the 14 seas, would that be more or less satisfying than building the ships on the Iron Islands?
It would have made a lot more sense. Pirates steal ships, no?
CopperPuppy
Member
Um... less? Is this a serious question?
In the books, significant backstory and explanation is given as to where he has been, for approximately how long, and what he has been rumored to be doing. So when he shows up with the ship you've already heard about, from the voyage you've already heard about, acting like the asshole you've already about, it makes sense. He's no different than any other character in that respect - they all have pasts highly relevant to the current plot. ASOIAF is ultimately a story heavily steeped in what came before and how the characters deal with the decisions they or their forebears made before page 1 of the series.
So, yes, that is more satisfying than him showing up then building an entire fleet in an inexplicably short amount of time because the plot needs to get things moving and they don't have time to explain where it all came from so - POOF - here's a fleet and, oh yeah, they can move as fast as we need them to.
We are going to have a major disagreement over the word significant here. He is mentioned a handful of times in the first 3 books.
Littlefinger, it's super obvious. He keeps hanging around Winterfell and serves no purpose except annoying Sansa, he betrayed Ned which led to his death, he married Sansa to Ramsay etc., Arya has more reasons to kill him than Cersei. The show can have a big death, Arya can stab someone (which the audience loves to see) and no character of importance is lost.
You mean like Dany thinking the invasion would be a cakewalk and her entire plan along with her alliances with three Westeros houses being destroyed within 2 episodes because they underestimated their enemy? The show should probably do something like that.