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[Oldest Snake]

are you side-eyeing the idea that she isn't a character in the books or the idea that she is a character on the show?

The idea that she isn't a character in the books and that the show's hastily cobbled together, clichéd bullshit after seasons of neglect can pass as a "character". Doubly so that this version could in any way be considered superior to her book counterpart (and calling book Sansa a counterpart of show Sansa is a fucking insult to the former if you ask me). I really don't get it.

It's not like she's played by an actress that elevates poor material to make it good despite some shakey writing either, she's one of the worst on the show.

 

[The Artisan]

Tyrion: "Please don't hurt my brother. You know, the one you accused me of purposefully helping by screwing up your plans to take the throne."
Dany: "Sure no problem, I won't hurt the man who stabbed my father in the back."

Yeah, that makes sense.

ill just post my quote here coz I don't feel like typing the idea out again

does anyone besides me think that Dany was trying not to attack Jaime? Maybe on Tyrion's request?

Drogon, first of all, his roars are very satisfying, second of all I remember 2 instances where Drogon flies down by Jaime but doesn't ignite him. The first is when Jaime gets the arches to knock, draw, and loose, Drogon flies right down that way it looks like all the arrows bounced off his scaly ass chest tbh and Drogon didn't light them on fire.

Another instance later on Jaime goes "take cover!" to his men and they're all lit up before his eyes; but he wasn't. It looked like careful aiming on Drogon's part it didn't look like he got lucky. You can't get lucky twice like that, come on.

And then in the end anyways Jaime tries to kill Dany coz he's a fuckboy and if I'm right about this theory, Dany's gonna be so pissed off at Tyrion

 

[demosthenes]

Tyrion: "Please don't hurt my brother. You know, the one you accused me of purposefully helping by screwing up your plans to take the throne."
Dany: "Sure no problem, I won't hurt the man who stabbed my father in the back."

Yeah, that makes sense.

Dan knows her father had to die.

 

[Human Trashcan]

The idea that she isn't a character in the books and that the show's hastily cobbled together, clichéd bullshit after seasons of neglect can pass as a "character". Doubly so that this version could in any way be considered superior to her book counterpart (and calling book Sansa a counterpart of show Sansa is a fucking insult to the former if you ask me). I really don't get it.

It's not like she's played by an actress that elevates poor material to make it good despite some shakey writing either, she's one of the worst on the show.

Okay we're pretty much in agreement then. I swear it's next to impossible to find someone, even among the biggest book fans, who thinks Sansa's actually a good character so I was expecting the other thing. I don't think Sophie Turner is as bad as all that though. I mean yeah her delivery is pretty damn stiff but otherwise I think she's good.

 

[gun_haver]

Why does no one seem to get that characters like him are out of their element now? Seriously, the game has been played out and winter has come. The dead give no shits and Littlefinger's schemes have come to naught.

Seriously, what's his plan?

Turn the Stark kids against one another? - Not happening

Manipulate the north/vale? They all don't trust him so good luck.

Betray them at a crtical moment? To what end?

It seems his only motivation now is to bang Sansa, and Arya will kill him long before then.

Game of Thrones has been building up to the fact that all the politics and squabbling mean exactly nothing now that the true threat has emerged.

Yeah, but this is kind of a boring turn for the story to take for a lot of people.

You can get a band of heroes fighting an army of pure evil monsters in any fantasy story. Game Of Thrones has been different because it's largely focused on medieval politicking and warfare, so when the characters who were central to that side of the show start to fade into the background because it's time for dragons and zombies, you can't blame people for wondering what happened.

 

[Zolo]

Dan knows her father had to die.

Barristan still looked down on Jaime despite knowing the same thing.

 

[demosthenes]

Barristan still looked down on Jaime despite knowing the same thing.

So did everyone. Nobody knows what he was on the verge of happening and a lot of other people would think differently if they knew the truth.

 

[Con_Smith]

That doesn't answer why Littlefinger gave it to Bran. Arya could have taken it from his dead body after she Needled him. Just sloppy writing.

I took it as he talked to Sansa and found out about the visions. Basically they had Little Finger mea culpa the hit on Bran by supplying the murder weapon to the intended victim. This leads me to think Bran knows Arya doesn't trust LF and he set the wheels in motion for her to kill him. So not lazy in my head cannon, but I'm sure they'll fuck it up somehow.

 

[Atraveller]

I mean, even in Lord of the Rings, Helm's Deep is generally much better filmed than Pelennor Fields - the film does a good job of laying out the geography of the place and why it matters, such that the viewer can always tell what's happening and why. Pelennor Fields was suitably epic but really just consisted of each side having tide-turning reinforcements show up without nearly as much communication of strategy to the viewer.

Show battles like to do shaky cam close up mash cuts of different people getting killed that were barely intelligible. They feel like time padding because we know the show could do high quality long shots.

 

[Ocarina_117]

The battle on the wall has my favourite shots from the series. The panning from castle black, up the wall and down to the wildlings were fantastic!

 

[Ocarina_117]

You know, when GRRM said we may get two books in 2018 i was annoyed as hell.

This years gone fast, we're in august.

We're potentially 5 months away from TWOW.

Woo hype!

Spoiler

 

[Hjod]

You know, when GRRM said we may get two books in 2018 i was annoyed as hell.

This years gone fast, we're in august.

We're potentially 5 months away from TWOW.

Woo hype!

Spoiler

 

[Gigglepoo]

Have any critics talked about how the show has become more about fan service and less subversive since departing from the books? I've seen a few mention how the show is now giving us victorious moments but none that point out that, even though some of the characters and plot points are the same, D&D and Martin are writing fundamentally different stories.

 

[Forkball]

"They will be met with fire, fury, and power. The likes of which this world has never seen before."

#DanyorTrump

 

[Showaddy]

Have any critics talked about how the show has become more about fan service and less subversive since departing from the books? I've seen a few mention how the show is now giving us victorious moments but none that point out that, even though some of the characters and plot points are the same, D&D and Martin are writing fundamentally different stories.

I'd say a significant number of critics haven't read books 1-5. And thanks to GRRM no one's in a position to compare the show to books 6 & 7 anyway.

 

[Kallor]

You know, when GRRM said we may get two books in 2018 i was annoyed as hell.

This years gone fast, we're in august.

We're potentially 5 months away from TWOW.

Woo hype!

Spoiler

Its gonna be 2019 for sure tho bro. 2026 for A Time for Wolves #believe

Spoiler

I hope we get an episode with that title at the least.it so good!

 

[Gigglepoo]

I'd say a significant number of critics haven't read books 1-5. And thanks to GRRM no one's in a position to compare the show to books 6 & 7 anyway.

Yeah, it's just funny how they know the show is past the books and they know it's lost its subversive edge but none hypothesize that maybe D&D are softening things. It's like they can't put 2 and 2 together.

I feel like if things had shifted this much after a showrunner change critics would have taken note but somehow can't recognize this shift once the source material is gone.

 

[Ocarina_117]

Yeah, it's just funny how they know the show is past the books and they know it's lost its subversive edge but none hypothesize that maybe D&D are softening things. It's like they can't put 2 and 2 together.

I feel like if things had shifted this much after a showrunner change critics would have taken note but somehow can't recognize this shift once the source material is gone.

To be honest I don't really see critics as harsh on the show as we in this thread.

I mean I still do enjoy it, its a great series. But I wouldn't rate episodes 9/10 and above as critics constantly do.

 

[Gigglepoo]

To be honest I don't really see critics as harsh on the show as we in this thread.

I mean I still do enjoy it, its a great series. But I wouldn't rate episodes 9/10 and above as critics constantly do.

I agree but I'm not even talking about being harsh. I saw lots of pieces on when Veep, for instance, changed showrunners and how that changed things and critics were always talking about Walking Dead changing runners, but GoT moves past the books while becoming fan service-y and no one notices?

 

[Ocarina_117]

I agree but I'm not even talking about being harsh. I saw lots of pieces on when Veep, for instance, changed showrunners and how that changed things and critics were always talking about Walking Dead changing runners, but GoT moves past the books while becoming fan service-y and no one notices?

It really does seem to be a critics darling. But people have noticed a change in the series.

My father who isn't a book reader has commented on the showing seemingly being rushed and lacking the great character moments of early seasons. A few family members are happier for the quicker pace, they just like the action I guess. Critics must just still love the show.

I definitely feel a few years after the show has ended, its due a reappraisal by critics. Many will be harsher on seasons 5-7 (so far), especially given the quality of story lines in early seasons. More so if the spin offs nail the character writing of the first seasons and maintain the high production values.

 

[WhereAreMahDragonz]

I like that they're getting straight to the point and not drawing shit out.

Feels less bloated than previous seasons

 

[The Artisan]

I like that they're getting straight to the point and not drawing shit out.

Feels less bloated than previous seasons

the opposite of too much filler is probably bad pacing; I get that it's budget shit but how the battles at Casterly Rock & Highgarden were nerfed - especially how they were both supposed to be important, just doesn't feel as impactful as it should have.

 

[Azzanadra]

I really find it interesting how critics rate the series so highly even now, I mean even aside from the fact that I am a book fan, the show legitimately has terrible dialogue and writing post season 3. This past episode especially, those winterfell scenes were all a cringefest. Why is it that only book readers can point out these flaws whereas mainstream critics seem incapable of doing so? Its not even like I am comparing it to the books at this point, judging the show as its own entity, the writing has become atrocious.

 

[Rixxan]

To be honest I don't really see critics as harsh on the show as we in this thread.

I mean I still do enjoy it, its a great series. But I wouldn't rate episodes 9/10 and above as critics constantly do.

It's not prestige TV, but I believe critics rate it highly because as a complete package it offers entertainment unlike anything else on television

To be frank it can't be prestige tv in that archetypal sense - it's the first of its kind in terms of scope and production - the nuance and "subversion" in earlier seasons was never as strong as implied often in this thread, imo

Book readers had the subtext and the foundation to infer layering into character moments that occurred back in earlier seasons, and now without new books as a guide people are acting as if this is an entirely different show (and arrogantly proclaiming as fact that plot movements in the books will look nothing like what we see here, because D&D who helm one of the most successful shows in tv history are basically hacks)

Granted this season is expedited and more is breezed over, but that's what's been afforded after six years of character building - but Jesus Christ, sometimes I wonder if Linda and Elio have multiple alter ego accounts and post in this thread - shit has become westeros.org tier in its negativity

(Love being here don't get me wrong, but damn sometimes)

 

[Zabka]

Have any critics talked about how the show has become more about fan service and less subversive since departing from the books? I've seen a few mention how the show is now giving us victorious moments but none that point out that, even though some of the characters and plot points are the same, D&D and Martin are writing fundamentally different stories.

I swear some of you won't be happy unless the Starks are being stomped into the mud repeatedly. The victorious moments are long-coming payoffs to years of plotlines.

 

[Rixxan]

I swear some of you won't be happy unless the Starks are being stomped into the mud repeatedly. The victorious moments are long-coming payoffs to years of plotlines.

Nah man it's all fan fiction, Dany and Jon are going to be locked in a lovers embrace atop Drogon as he roasts the night king and everyone breaks into a victory dance

That's just how D&D roll

 

[Rixxan]

Do people not remember how lack luster season 2 was? It was basically season 5 until black water rolled through and changed what we thought possible for action on television - not unlike what hardhome did for season 5

 

[Brakke]

Maybe if you want to understand a critic's line of thinking, you should read their work. Instead of like. Abstract, undirected conjecture based on the premise that you're more discerning.

 

[Turin]

I'm enjoying the spectacle of the show. They know how to create some scintillating moments and the show looks beautiful(manbuns notwithstanding).

I don't care for how purely fan servicey it's become. The Dany/Jon shit seems very twitter conscious.

 

[Zabka]

the opposite of too much filler is probably bad pacing; I get that it's budget shit but how the battles at Casterly Rock & Highgarden were nerfed - especially how they were both supposed to be important, just doesn't feel as impactful as it should have.

The battles were not important, only the results of the battles. The Unsullied being trapped in Casterly Rock and the Lannisters securing gold/grain plus eliminating another ally of Dany's.

The Loot Train, on the other hand, was important to show because it's the first time the Dothraki and a dragon are unleashed in Westeros. That some people watching are actually turning on Dany because of the brutality on display shows why that particular melee was important to see.

 

[SodiumBenzoate]

Do people not remember how lack luster season 2 was? It was basically season 5 until black water rolled through and changed what we thought possible for action on television - not unlike what hardhome did for season 5

Tyrion in King's Landing was awesome, what are you talking about.

Qarth did suck though.

 

[Gigglepoo]

Maybe if you want to understand a critic's line of thinking, you should read their work. Instead of like. Abstract, undirected conjecture based on the premise that you're more discerning.

I have read critics talking about Game of Thrones. But not every critic. That's why I asked if any of them equate the shift in tone with the story moving past the books. Seems like a significant combination that I haven't seen explored yet.

 

[Azzanadra]

Do people not remember how lack luster season 2 was? It was basically season 5 until black water rolled through and changed what we thought possible for action on television - not unlike what hardhome did for season 5

Its my third favorite season still after s1 and s2. I agree the Jon and Dany storylines were ass, but the War of the Five Kings itself was well done. The introduction of Stannis, Theon at Winterfell, Tyrion in kings landing... but you're right they went all in on this aspect of the story that they neglected the two main characters :/

 

[The Artisan]

The battles were not important, only the results of the battles. The Unsullied being trapped in Casterly Rock and the Lannisters securing gold/grain plus eliminating another ally of Dany's.

The Loot Train, on the other hand, was important to show because it's the first time the Dothraki and a dragon are unleashed in Westeros. That some people watching are actually turning on Dany because of the brutality on display shows why that particular melee was important to see.

but let's not pretend that we wouldn't see more of it if HBO bought a higher budget for the show.

 

[KahooTs]

I really find it interesting how critics rate the series so highly even now

Heh, this came up tops on my google news.
http://www.news.com.au/entertainmen...d/news-story/f51530096e406071afebcc72fe44c519

 

[Psychoward]

I really find it interesting how critics rate the series so highly even now, I mean even aside from the fact that I am a book fan, the show legitimately has terrible dialogue and writing post season 3. This past episode especially, those winterfell scenes were all a cringefest. Why is it that only book readers can point out these flaws whereas mainstream critics seem incapable of doing so? Its not even like I am comparing it to the books at this point, judging the show as its own entity, the writing has become atrocious.

Season 5 has like a 95+ on metacritic

I don't trust TV reviews

 

[Valonquar]

Littlefinger is going to try something desperate, and Brienne will swoop in and chop his tiny ass in half. Then Omar will kick the door down and steal everyone's drugs. Serioulsy though, if anyone thinks GoT is going to have anything remotely happy as an ending, they are going to be very disappointed.

 

[fuzaco]

but let's not pretend that we wouldn't see more of it if HBO bought a higher budget for the show.

Even if the budget was higher, it's probably better spent somewhere else. The budget must be crazy high already, I don't think it's a problem, but there are only 7 episodes, so there is no reason to waste time.

 

[Tiktaalik]

My prediction for Daenery's next setback will be that Randyll Tarly will wipeout the Dothraki in an epic on screen battle.

The show has already highlighted Tarly's Westerosi nationalism and xenophobia, as this was the reason he decided to support Cersei over Daenerys. He doesn't want to see savage outsiders run rampant across Westeros and so it would be fitting for him to be the main general to stand against the Dothraki.

Since the first season characters in the show have had a very high opinion of Dothraki fighting ability, and everyone assumes they'd cut through chivalrous Westerosi knights like a hot knife through butter. Of course there's no evidence that this would be the case, as the Dothraki have never stepped out of Essos and come up against Westerosi armies. It would be a stunning upset and great drama if this Dothraki reputation is not all it's made out to be, and some clever tactics by Tarly, a reputed genius General, allow him to utterly destroy the Dothraki.

Additionally it makes sense for the Dothraki to die in a field somewhere for story reasons as well. It's not going to be a very good look for Dany if the Dothraki pillage Westerosi villages, rape women, tear down septs, and carry off religious artefacts. If this doesn't occur then it would be hard to believe that the Dothraki have changed and they would be capable of happily adjusting to Westerosi norms, becoming knights and occupying holdfasts. There's simply no place for the Dothraki in the story in the future. The Dothraki have to go away somehow and I bet we'll find out how soon.

Well this prediction couldn't have been more wrong, as the Dothraki turned out to be as dominating against Westerosi as everyone in the story kept saying they'd be (though the Dothraki did have more than a bit of help from that dragon).

I still do think that the Dothraki don't have a real place in Westeros and narratively they will eventually have to be excised from the story somehow. Maybe they'll be done in by the Others later on.

 

[Chuckie]

y'all remember the shot of the wintery iron throne in the house of the undying?

What do you think that means now, knowing what we know about Dany's conquest?

In the vision it almost seems like she rejects the throne. She wants to touch it, but doesn't and in the next shot she is going through the wall.

So maybe she will burn Kings Landing, but instead of ascending the throne, she will go North.

 

[duckroll]

Maybe she'll skip King's Landing entirely. We're running low on episodes!

 

[Admiral Woofington]

Maybe she'll skip King's Landing entirely. We're running low on episodes!

"daenerys went back to her home planet"

 

[Burt]

Well this prediction couldn't have been more wrong, as the Dothraki turned out to be as dominating against Westerosi as everyone in the story kept saying they'd be (though the Dothraki did have more than a bit of help from that dragon).

I still do think that the Dothraki don't have a real place in Westeros and narratively they will eventually have to be excised from the story somehow. Maybe they'll be done in by the Others later on.

Ehh, I still don't think you're too far off. Sure, the dothraki were great in an open field against the butt end of an unprepared enemy with a dragon at their back, but they've also been specifically highlighted as unable to siege cities and wielding weapons that aren't good against decent armor. Plus, they're never going to be able to move north with winter setting in.

Granted, this is all a book-centric take and we all know they're not paying too much attention to the fine print in the show, but I do still think you're right in the notion that the dothraki will never find a permanent home in Westeros -- as much as they're for Danaerys because of her strenth, her endgame is the antithesis of their entire culture.

 

[Slaythe]

This season has been fire.

 

[Admiral Woofington]

This season has been fire.

Nah I'm a bit cold as ice on the season so far.

 

[Turin]

It's been a wintery mix so far.

 

[Werd]

Exactly how many points should be knocked off a review for conventionality? Disappointing in the larger scheme of the series and worth discussion perhaps, but I don't mind it so far. Still time to reverse that trend anyway.

 

[gun_haver]

I'm enjoying the spectacle of the show. They know how to create some scintillating moments and the show looks beautiful(manbuns notwithstanding).

I don't care for how purely fan servicey it's become. The Dany/Jon shit seems very twitter conscious.

I mean, the Dany/Jon stuff that's actually been on the show has been fairly light (so far anyway). It's mostly coming from the crowd, and that colours your view of the show. Or it does mine, at least, and I try not to let it too much because it's really not the show's fault that people are literally squealing with excitement over the possibility of two characters who barely know each other having sex.

 

[Fercho]

I just watched the latest episode and was AMAZING, the fields of fire scene was truly something and exactly what i expected to see since this journey started.

Also, maybe this is not a popular opinion but i think Bran's parts are fascinating, i can't wait to see what they do with this new character, that scene with Littlefinger ( his face LMAO)

 

[Discotheque]

I really find it interesting how critics rate the series so highly even now, I mean even aside from the fact that I am a book fan, the show legitimately has terrible dialogue and writing post season 3. This past episode especially, those winterfell scenes were all a cringefest. Why is it that only book readers can point out these flaws whereas mainstream critics seem incapable of doing so? Its not even like I am comparing it to the books at this point, judging the show as its own entity, the writing has become atrocious.

its odd. the show has been entertaining this season but its not written well and the performances have been pretty lackluster throughout the entire series as well.

it doesn't deserve the accolades or any of the emmy nominations it gets outside of technical categories