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[Bobby Roberts]

Read the thread.

So nobody then.

Good afternoon, Ryu.

 

[SpaceWolf]

Why does every Star Wars thread involve that Roberts fellow fighting to the death with someone?

 

[Albino_Yeti]

I'm curious to see what he had planned for this new trilogy. TFA was fine, but it was so similar to ANH that it was almost comical. Hopefully the Last Jedi is a very different movie from Empire, but from what we know so far...I kinda have the feeling its just going to be a rehash of Empire.

 

[Principate]

Why does every Star Wars thread involve that Roberts fellow fighting to the death with someone?

Because this shit is serious business. Real Srs Bsn.

 

[Tal Shiar Agent]

But the destruction of the Starkiller base doesn't really matter to the First Order anymore. They succeeded in their goal; they annihilated the Republic. I mean, I guess without the Starkiller base they can't destroy anymore random star systems, but as far as their enemy goes, it doesn't exist. The Republic is gone, and currently, there isn't anything to take its place but the First Order. They are now in a situation to move into the vacuum left by the collapse of the Republic.

The only resistance they have (no pun intended), is the Resistance, which, by the end of The Force Awakens, are a few Rebels, and Poe's X-Wing Squadron. Against a First Order that may not have the numbers of the Galactic Empire, but they outnumber the Resistance by a significant margin. It's why they think that finding Luke is so important. Perhaps knowing that the hero who defeated the Emperor and Darth Vader is out there, possibly ready to repeat said victory has the First Order nervous, but Luke is only one man, and if they can squash his allies, he'll be "powerless."

I think the setup for the rest of the trilogy is a very desperate and weak Resistance, perhaps using guerrilla tactics to hurt the First Order and stop them from becoming the Empire again. With Luke seemingly uninterested in returning to the fight, the conflict is compelling to me. TFA set the stage for what this "Star War" is going to be about, and it feels like it's going to be different from the two previous trilogies.

It's unfortunate that the implications of the First Order using Starkiller Base to successfully destroy the Republic in one fell swoop go ignored. From a Star Wars history standpoint, the Resistance are in a worse position than the Rebellion was in the OT. At least in the OT, they had allies in government that were willing to aid in the fight against the Empire. In the sequel trilogy, their government aid is dead. Literally and figuratively. They're facing this threat with the closes on their backs, and the ships in their hanger.

The entire New Republic isn't dead. The Core Worlds still exist. The system that was destroyed, the Hosnian System was only the then-seat of the New Republic. It rotates with each election. Coruscant, Corellia, Chandrila, etc all still exist. The New Republic has been severely weakened and will likely fracture with its entire government gone, but it hasn't been completely destroyed.

 

[MMarston]

What's up with all these TFA apologists lately?

Man, do I love me some GAF revisionist history

 

[ryutaro's mama]

But the destruction of the Starkiller base doesn't really matter to the First Order anymore. They succeeded in their goal; they annihilated the Republic. I mean, I guess without the Starkiller base they can't destroy anymore random star systems, but as far as their enemy goes, it doesn't exist. The Republic is gone, and currently, there isn't anything to take its place but the First Order. They are now in a situation to move into the vacuum left by the collapse of the Republic.

Unless that is covered in the novelizations, I didn't get that the entire Republic was destroyed. I saw that the main fleet of the Republic was killed but still, the goal wasn't to have the Death Orb be destroyed to pull that off no more than it was the goal in ANH.

The Death Orb breeds fear across the systems and as you said, that looming spectre no longer exists. If TLJ explores the power vacuum scenario, that will be interesting. Otherwise, it's another wasted trillion dollar project.

 

[Ondor]

Yes, there was declining in interest in Star Wars as the prequel trilogy progressed. There has been and will always be a dedicated fanbase (just like Trek) - but SW has always been a blockbuster saga that had more casual acceptance - it's why you see these films do better than Trek, for example. The first goal of these new films was to not just preach to the converted.

It's a very lazy estimation to just call TFA an ANH ripoff, it is an intentional pastiche of the entire OT. [/b]Again, this approach would have been unnecessary if the prequels left people wanting more - they didn't.[/b]

TFA uses that pastiche approach to break some new ground - by movie's end, it sets things up to be completely different than anything we've seen yet.

I think there's a very fine line between pastiche and rip-off. I would've agreed with pastiche up until the final act. But Starkiller base, as well as Starkiller base destroying the New Republic, felt not just a blatant copy from the OT but also the movie actively undoing the work of ROTJ to reestablish the status quo of ANH.

As to the bolded, I appreciate this. I get now that people may have been thinking that nobody wants more star wars after the PT so they had to give more of the same to remind everybody that they do want more movies in this universe. I don't agree with it and I think it was a poor decision but I can understand now how some people felt this way.

 

[Figboy79]

The entire New Republic isn't dead. The Core Worlds still exist. The system that was destroyed, the Hosnian System was only the then-seat of the New Republic. It rotates with each election. Coruscant, Corellia, Chandrila, etc all still exist. The New Republic has been severely weakened and will likely fracture with its entire government gone, but it hasn't been completely destroyed.

Thanks for the clarification! I was basing my thoughts on what was directly referenced, shown in the movie, and I don't recall there being information about how the New Republic runs the galaxy, so I was under the impression that with the Hosnian system destroyed, there weren't anyone to bail the Republic out (which, I do remember 3PO lamenting after the Hosnian system was wiped out). I do still think it stands that the Resistance isn't in the best place to assault the First Order and actually win, especially with their ace in the hole reluctant to join the fight.

I imagine Leia will have to put on her diplomat hat and try to convince the core worlds that all is not lost, and they could still stop the First Order.

 

[ryutaro's mama]

The entire New Republic isn't dead. The Core Worlds still exist. The system that was destroyed, the Hosnian System was only the then-seat of the New Republic. It rotates with each election. Coruscant, Corellia, Chandrila, etc all still exist. The New Republic has been severely weakened and will likely fracture with its entire government gone, but it hasn't been completely destroyed.

Thanks for this.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

Why does every Star Wars thread involve that Roberts fellow fighting to the death with someone?

 

[SpaceWolf]

God help us all if The Last Jedi turns out to be a loose remake of The Empire Strikes Back.

God help us all.

I knew you were the Dread Pirate Roberts!

 

[WhatNXt]

The things I hate most about the Starkiller's first use are:

• it seems a bit silly to me, and creates a dissonant understanding of the physics in this fictional world - when the sun-harvested energy beam magically engages its multiple targets. Is the beam's Phantom Matter dense and propelled in such a way that it can hone in on planetary gravity or something, or is it magically bent to its targets by the will of the Force and/or the arbitrary necessity of dumb plot devices? When I look back on it, I don't care what the reason is, I just know I don't like it.
  
• It's ambiguous about what has been destroyed. They tell us in the film the Hosnian system was hit, imply that the senate and the new republic have effectively been knocked out by the attack, but the audience are unaware of what or where it is because that's effectively the first time they are seeing or hearing about it. They're shown a few clips of people about to be incinerated, with one shot appearing confusingly close in appearance to Coruscant. It's perfectly conceivable that one planetary mega-city looks similar in appearance to another, but there's something to be said for less being more. When Tarkin tells his round table that the Emperor has dissolved the senate, we didn't need to see it to know that it was bad. We didn't have shots of families and business people gathering on Alderaan prior to its obliteration.
  
• The Death Star's destruction being visible from the surface of Endor makes sense. I'm not sure the destruction of Hosnian Prime being immediately visible from other star systems does. Although there are plenty of reasons to be forgiving of fantasy physics in the Star Wars world, space was always space and it always seemed to behave like space. I'm sure this is something most people don't care about, but it was one of the things that felt like it was there for convenience rather than because it made sense.

 

[TheXbox]

I think there's a very fine line between pastiche and rip-off. I would've agreed with pastiche up until the final act. But Starkiller base, as well as Starkiller base destroying the New Republic, felt not just a blatant copy from the OT but also the movie actively undoing the work of ROTJ to reestablish the status quo of ANH.

As to the bolded, I appreciate this. I get now that people may have been thinking that nobody wants more star wars after the PT so they had to give more of the same to remind everybody that they do want more movies in this universe. I don't agree with it and I think it was a poor decision but I can understand now how some people felt this way.

Sounds like this is your real issue with the film.

Don't forget that destroying Starkiller is B-tier plot. Poe Dameron is the guy who blows it up after a sixty-second trench run. The actual main characters are doing different things, like stabbing each other with lightsabers.

 

[Sephzilla]

Yes, and I've been trying to make a point that you would have to boil it down real, real hard to draw some convincing parallels based on your text with the crossed-out names. It's just not a good example. If you're arguing that it's possible, then it should be easy to come up with good ones, no?
I simply don't share the impression that you can make the same case out of TPM-ANH that you can with TFA-ANH. I consider the latter to be totally valid based on my own findings, but maybe it also works for TPM and I just haven't seen anything convincing yet.

I feel like I've come up with good ones. Like how both movies involve a wise old jedi dying dramatically to someone named Darth, which has a huge shift in how said Skywalker is trained. I'm sorry but if you really can't see the blatant parallels that TPM and ANH have then I don't know what to say.

God help us all if The Last Jedi turns out to be a loose remake of The Empire Strikes Back.

God help us all.

If Rey loses her rematch to Kylo the Empire parallels will be furiously getting written up

 

[ryutaro's mama]

God help us all if The Last Jedi turns out to be a loose remake of The Empire Strikes Back.

God help us all.

Well, if Luke trains Rey in any way and she runs off without completing said training to save her friends, oh dear!

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Lucas has basically done nothing in the last decade and suddenly within the last few years it seems like there have been a ton of prequel defenders popping up out of nowhere trying to say these movies are original what not.

My only armchair theory is that since disliking the prequels is more of a common thing today than it was back in the 2000s, contrarians shifted over to defending the prequels in order to satisfy their underdog complex

People who grew up with the prequels as their first Star Wars experience are grown up and posting online now.

I grew up with the prequel movies as my first Star Wars, but hadn't seen them in forever. I decided to sit down and watch all three this weekend. Return of the Sith was totally fine, but PM and AotCs were really, really bad movies.

PM feels like it doesn't know if it wants to go full kids movie, or political drama. So it awkwardly blends both into a weird movie filled with long periods of boring politics, with bits of ridiculous and not funny slapstick thrown into the mix. Maul is a totally wasted character. Liam Neeson is... not very bright and makes some strange decisions. Also his just outright a criminal who uses his Jedi powers for his own selfish hairbrain schemes. Jar Jar is Jar Jar. A main character you can't understand when he talks who does stupid slapstick, but also is apparently a competent warrior and leader. Anakin is not great at acting and shouldn't have been given such a prominent role.

My take on PM would have had Liam Neeson be a crazy old Jedi, on thin ice with the council, and who believes in this wild conspiracy about a chosen one. He latches onto this child who he believes is the chosen one, despite nobody else feeling anything special about this kid. Is this boy the chosen one? Is Liam Neeson just crazy? Are the Jedi council too stuffy and stuck in their ways to see the force in front of them?

Jar Jar would be a clumsy, but lovable old warrior. Someone who could have been a Jedi if he had trained his life, but instead went the civilian path due to the Gungan's mistrust of the surface world and the Jedi. He believes strongly in the force, but believes the Jedi misuse it and are not truly following the path of the force. He has all the skills of a Jedi, combat wise, but he is not a member of the Jedi order. So he can do flips and stuff (which Jar Jar can already do). He also would speak English (or maybe a slight Jamaican accent), and would basically be "what if Yoda wasn't a Jedi, and didn't trust Jedi, but tagged along on their journey." Because of their shared views of the Jedi being lost and stuck in their ways, Jar Jar and Liam Neeson would be fast friends, bouncing ideas off each other over what the true meaning of "the force" is.

Anakin would barely be in the movie, and would just be a very skilled young warrior at the Jedi temple, training. Liam Neeson would notice his skills and sense something about him, but Anakin wouldn't go on a journey or anything. In fact, we wouldn't even know his name until the very end, when Obi Wan realizes he had only ever known him as "the boy" from Liam Neeson's ramblings, and he introduces himself as "Anakin Skywalker"

Obi Wan would have to teeter the line of trusting his mentor and master Liam Neeson, but also coping with his master possibly being insane and mistrusting the Jedi. At the end, Obi Wan would feel compelled to take this boy as his apprentice, both in respect for Liam Neeson, but also out of respect for the boy who was told he was something great and destined for success.

Darth Maul would be a sith warrior and bounty hunter who wouldn't be Palpatine's apprentice (yet), and the ridiculous idea that there are only two sith at any time (contradicted by literally every other piece of SW media) wouldn't exist. Palpatine knows Liam Neeson is onto something with this chosen one stuff, and quietly hires Maul to dispose of him. At the end, he kills Liam Neeson, but manages to escape Obi Wan to fight another day (and another movie). Instead of payment for the successful assassination (which Maul immediately gets angry at not being paid), Palpatine offers to take Maul on as his apprentice. Maul attacks Palpatine, who quickly dodges, pulls out a light saber, and slices the tips off of Maul's horns. Maul agrees to be his apprentice.

Meanwhile the politics stuff happens and a civil war starts brewing.

Attack of the Clones wouldn't exist and an entirely new movie showing Obi Wan and Anakin's friendship grow and Maul's continued training would instead replace it. Dooku wouldn't exist. Greivous would be introduced in this movie. Clones would just be proto-Storm Troopers, not clones. They raise a near instant galactic army the old fashioned way, using a draft. This causes even more tension as planets do not wish to serve in the "pointless" war and more and more nations start to consider secession. This is also the movie where Anakin falls in love with whoever (it doesn't matter who, she's dying next movie anyway, in this saga, the romance doesn't matter all that much, it's disappointment of the Jedi's failures that turn Anakin dark, not some weird fear of losing his love one) and marries. Everyone knows about it, and Obi Wan is his best man. Also at some point Grievous cuts off both of Anakin's hands.

Early in the third movie Grievous attacks Anakin's (pregnant) wife within an inch of her life, sending her to the hospital for the entire movie. Anakin brutally attacks Grievous, making his suffer as much as possible. Grievous just laughs as he takes the pain. He knows nothing will happen to him. Jedi fight for justice, the courts will handle Grievous. Anakin swallows his anger and brings Grievous in to stand trial.

Meanwhile, Obi Wan catches wind of Maul being around and hunts him for most of the movie, partly as revenge for killing Liam Neeson, but also because Maul is a bad dude, infamous all over, and currently the most powerful (known) sith warrior in the galaxy. The rich and powerful pay Maul to kill someone, and he does it without problem. Anyone with money and influence can have anyone killed, and fear runs through high profile political rivals. In this fear and chaos of assassinations, Palpatine suggests one person take on all responsibilities of the senate. It's easier to guard one person, than an entire senate, he argues. And he's willing to die if need be, in the name of peace and democracy. It's the middle of a terrible war, and they don't have a lot of options, so they agree to make Palpatine emperor and extend his powers.

After lengthy court battles, Grievous is declared criminally insane and sentenced to life in exile on a far away planet. Obviously behind the scenes Palpatine organized this, but nobody knows that. And also obviously, Grievous escapes and goes on a rampage. He kidnaps Anakin's (now extremely pregnant) wife from the hospital. Anakin is FURIOUS at the council and the senate. They're ineffective, slow, and pointless, he believes. They gave Grievous a light sentence, and he ended up escaping and now his wife is in trouble. He curses the Jedi and curses democracy. He snaps and raises a mob to attack the Jedi temple. They burn it to the ground, killing almost everyone and scattering the survivors to exile in remote planets.

Afterwards, Palpatine meets with Anakin, talks with him, and seduces him to be his new apprentice, explaining his ideals about the Empire and the peace and safety it would bring. But there's a problem. Palpatine already has an apprentice, with Maul. So Palpatine sends Anakin to kill Maul. To lure Maul out, Darth Sidious orders a hit on Palpatine (himself). Palpatine informs the remaining Jedi (Obi Wan, Yoda, some background people) that there may be a hit on him, he needs help. Yoda sends some random Jedi and Obi Wan.

Anakin has some unfinished business with Grievous. He finds him and his half dead, very pregnant wife. He slaughters Grievous and brings his wife to a trusted friend for care (because Anakin is currently a wanted man for the whole Jedi temple stuff)

The random Jedi are near instantly killed by Maul, like as soon as they arrive to get them out of the way. RIP Fisto. Obi Wan survives and escapes, but quietly follows Maul to Palpatine's room. There's a big fight between Maul and Anakin, Anakin gets the upper hand and is about to kill Maul, when Obi Wan shows up. Begs Anakin to let the courts handle Maul. Anakin won't have it, and talks about Grievous escaping. Obi Wan mentions how much he would love to kill Maul for killing Liam Neeson, but he can't do it. It isn't the Jedi way. Anakin says "I am no longer a Jedi" and slides Maul's head off. Obi Wan attacks Anakin and stuff happens, and the building catches fire. Palpatine slips out in the chaos (although the fire did physically scar Palpatine). The fire rages in the entire building as Obi Wan and Anakin duel. After a long battle, Obi Wan gets the upper hand, slices off Anakin's legs and leaves him to die in the fire. He doesn't die, and later Palpatine finds him in the rubble and takes him away to become Vader.

Obi Wan hears about Anakin's wife dying and rushes to her. They manage to save the babies, but she's dead. They do not want Anakin finding the babies, so the trusted friend takes one, and Obi Wan takes the other, noting that he will see if there are any relatives of Anakin's on his home planet of Naboo (otherwise he'll raise him, himself). Yoda grumbles and him and haws that he couldn't believe how blind him and the council were the entire time. He believes he needs to meditate on this and exiles himself to train and reflect on what went wrong. He's lost touch with the force, he believes. Obi Wan also goes into hiding, for his own safety. He needs to remain alive to protect the children, and possibly train them someday.

It ends with the march of the empire playing and the mask being lowered onto Vader. Palpatine explains that Grievous had killed Anakin's wife and unborn children, she didn't make it. Vader notes that it's all the proof he needs to believe the empire is the best path forward, and that the Jedi must be destroyed. They caused this, and untold amounts of other suffering, with their beliefs of democracy and fair justice. Palpatine has a new apprentice, stronger than Maul. Together Vader and Palpatine use their combined political and physical strength to take over the senate, and create the Empire.

Sitting in an old, musty bar, hearing about the news of the new empire and the fall of the Jedi, Jar Jar gets the last, wheezy laugh at how he (and Liam Neeson) were right about the Jedi being stuck in their ways and the real meaning of the force being forgotten, but it's a bittersweet victory and so much has been lost. He's very old at this point, and near death, and he just lowers his head in sadness and coughs. Jar Jar is never heard from again.

Credits roll

Okay this ended up being more fanfiction than I wanted to write. Oh well.

 

[Kid Ying]

The prequel movies weren't critical stinks at the time. Aotc still has a fresh rating because it didn't have new reviews added which sunk the tomato scores of the other films.

The whole they were critical trash was a fairly new development.

Revenge also has It:
https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/star_wars_episode_iii_revenge_of_the_sith/

Also, it's a fairly decent movie. Never understood people putting it on the same scale as aotc, which is an unbelievably bad movie, or Phantom menace, which is a bit better, but boring as hell.

I guess in movies, the last impression os what It counts, as clones has a good ending after almost two hours of pure shit, while revenge has amigdala dying of sadness after a good movie.

 

[Tal Shiar Agent]

The things I hate most about the Starkiller's first use are:

• it seems a bit silly to me, and creates a dissonant understanding of the physics in this fictional world - when the sun-harvested energy beam magically engages its multiple targets. Is the beam's Phantom Matter dense and propelled in such a way that it can hone in on planetary gravity or something, or is it magically bent to its targets by the will of the Force and/or the arbitrary necessity of dumb plot devices? When I look back on it, I don't care what the reason is, I just know I don't like it.
  
• It's ambiguous about what has been destroyed. They tell us in the film the Hosnian system was hit, imply that the senate and the new republic have effectively been knocked out by the attack, but the audience are unaware of what or where it is because that's effectively the first time they are seeing or hearing about it. They're shown a few clips of people about to be incinerated, with one shot appearing confusingly close in appearance to Coruscant. It's perfectly conceivable that one planetary mega-city looks similar in appearance to another, but there's something to be said for less being more. When Tarkin tells his round table that the Emperor has dissolved the senate, we didn't need to see it to know that it was bad. We didn't have shots of families and business people gathering on Alderaan prior to its obliteration.
  
• The Death Star's destruction being visible from the surface of Endor makes sense. I'm not sure the destruction of Hosnian Prime being immediately visible from other star systems does. Although there are plenty of reasons to be forgiving of fantasy physics in the Star Wars world, space was always space and it always seemed to behave like space. I'm sure this is something most people don't care about, but it was one of the things that felt like it was there for convenience rather than because it made sense.

Starkiller Base utilizes quintessence (aka Phantom Energy), a form of dark energy. Quintessence, when focused through the Kyber Crystal (the Force in crystal form essentially) filled core of the planet fires at such an intensity that it fractures space-time and enters subspace. This allows the beam to travel at immense speeds in a straight line. It also subverts the speed of light so it's visible everywhere in space in real-time with a direct line of sight. When the beam passes through the core of a planet it superheats the core and causes it to nova.

Subspace is like hyperspace in Stargate where you don't need to worry about gravitational bodies when plotting a course. Hyperspace in Star Wars needs to avoid celestial bodies.

 

[Sephzilla]

Starkiller Base is easily the worst part of TFA though, no argument there.

Revenge also has It:
https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/star_wars_episode_iii_revenge_of_the_sith/

Also, it's a fairly decent movie. Never understood people putting it on the same scale as aotc, which is an unbelievably bad movie, or Phantom menace, which is a bit better, but boring as hell.

I guess in movies, the last impression os what It counts, as clones has a good ending after almost two hours of pure shit, while revenge has amigdala dying of sadness after a good movie.

ROTS for me is bogged down by having to carry and fix the shit from the past two movies and on its own has plenty of pretty bad acting and questionable direction.

Not to mention for the finale ROTS beats you over the head with HEY LOOK AT HOW EPIC THIS IS instead of just letting the final battle be epic

 

[WhatNXt]

Starkiller Base utilizes quintessence (aka Phantom Energy), a form of dark energy. Quintessence, when focused through the Kyber Crystal (the Force in crystal form essentially) filled core of the planet fires at such an intensity that it fractures space-time and enters subspace. This allows the beam to travel at immense speeds in a straight line. It also subverts the speed of light so it's visible everywhere in space in real-time with a direct line of sight. When the beam passes through the core of a planet it superheats the core and causes it to nova.

Subspace is like hyperspace in Stargate where you don't need to worry about gravitational bodies when plotting a course. Hyperspace in Star Wars needs to avoid celestial bodies.

Is this canon?

Cos I'm cool with all that as long as we see / hear more examples of it. I don't mean a midichlorian style exposition dump, it'd just be nice to see that expanded on if it's canon.

 

[Tal Shiar Agent]

Is this canon?

Cos I'm cool with all that as long as we see / hear more examples of it. I don't mean a midichlorian style exposition dump, it'd just be nice to see that expanded on if it's canon.

Yeah, it's part of the new canon. I don't remember if any of it was mentioned in the film (I think quintessence was), but it is canon.

 

[sphagnum]

Is this canon?

Cos I'm cool with all that as long as we see / hear more examples of it. I don't mean a midichlorian style exposition dump, it'd just be nice to see that expanded on if it's canon.

Yeah, it's from the novelization.

 

[George Oscar Bluth II]

God help us all if The Last Jedi turns out to be a loose remake of The Empire Strikes Back.

God help us all.

The shit I've seen spewed on the internet, I think any resemblance to the very franchise it belongs to would set someone off.

 

[SpaceWolf]

People who grew up with the prequels as their first Star Wars experience are grown up and posting online now.

I grew up with the prequel movies as my first Star Wars, but hadn't seen them in forever. I decided to sit down and watch all three this weekend. Return of the Sith was totally fine, but PM and AotCs were really, really bad movies.

PM feels like it doesn't know if it wants to go full kids movie, or political drama. So it awkwardly blends both into a weird movie filled with long periods of boring politics, with bits of ridiculous and not funny slapstick thrown into the mix. Maul is a totally wasted character. Liam Neeson is... not very bright and makes some strange decisions. Also his just outright a criminal who uses his Jedi powers for his own selfish hairbrain schemes. Jar Jar is Jar Jar. A main character you can't understand when he talks who does stupid slapstick, but also is apparently a competent warrior and leader. Anakin is not great at acting and shouldn't have been given such a prominent role.

My take on PM would have had Liam Neeson be a crazy old Jedi, on thin ice with the council, and who believes in this wild conspiracy about a chosen one. He latches onto this child who he believes is the chosen one, despite nobody else feeling anything special about this kid. Is this boy the chosen one? Is Liam Neeson just crazy? Are the Jedi council too stuffy and stuck in their ways to see the force in front of them?

Jar Jar would be a clumsy, but lovable old warrior. Someone who could have been a Jedi if he had trained his life, but instead went the civilian path due to the Gungan's mistrust of the surface world and the Jedi. He believes strongly in the force, but believes the Jedi misuse it and are not truly following the path of the force. He has all the skills of a Jedi, combat wise, but he is not a member of the Jedi order. So he can do flips and stuff (which Jar Jar can already do). He also would speak English (or maybe a slight Jamaican accent), and would basically be "what if Yoda wasn't a Jedi, and didn't trust Jedi, but tagged along on their journey." Because of their shared views of the Jedi being lost and stuck in their ways, Jar Jar and Liam Neeson would be fast friends, bouncing ideas off each other over what the true meaning of "the force" is.

Anakin would barely be in the movie, and would just be a very skilled young warrior at the Jedi temple, training. Liam Neeson would notice his skills and sense something about him, but Anakin wouldn't go on a journey or anything. In fact, we wouldn't even know his name until the very end, when Obi Wan realizes he had only ever known him as "the boy" from Liam Neeson's ramblings, and he introduces himself as "Anakin Skywalker"

Obi Wan would have to teeter the line of trusting his mentor and master Liam Neeson, but also coping with his master possibly being insane and mistrusting the Jedi. At the end, Obi Wan would feel compelled to take this boy as his apprentice, both in respect for Liam Neeson, but also out of respect for the boy who was told he was something great and destined for success.

Darth Maul would be a sith warrior and bounty hunter who wouldn't be Palpatine's apprentice (yet), and the ridiculous idea that there are only two sith at any time (contradicted by literally every other piece of SW media) wouldn't exist. Palpatine knows Liam Neeson is onto something with this chosen one stuff, and quietly hires Maul to dispose of him. At the end, he kills Liam Neeson, but manages to escape Obi Wan to fight another day (and another movie). Instead of payment for the successful assassination (which Maul immediately gets angry at not being paid), Palpatine offers to take Maul on as his apprentice. Maul attacks Palpatine, who quickly dodges, pulls out a light saber, and slices the tips off of Maul's horns. Maul agrees to be his apprentice.

Meanwhile the politics stuff happens and a civil war starts brewing.

Attack of the Clones wouldn't exist and an entirely new movie showing Obi Wan and Anakin's friendship grow and Maul's continued training would instead replace it. Dooku wouldn't exist. Greivous would be introduced in this movie. Clones would just be proto-Storm Troopers, not clones. They raise a near instant galactic army the old fashioned way, using a draft. This causes even more tension as planets do not wish to serve in the "pointless" war and more and more nations start to consider secession. This is also the movie where Anakin falls in love with whoever (it doesn't matter who, she's dying next movie anyway, in this saga, the romance doesn't matter all that much, it's disappointment of the Jedi's failures that turn Anakin dark, not some weird fear of losing his love one) and marries. Everyone knows about it, and Obi Wan is his best man.

Early in the third movie Grievous attacks Anakin's (pregnant) wife within an inch of her life, sending her to the hospital for the entire movie. Anakin brutally attacks Grievous, making his suffer as much as possible. Grievous just laughs as he takes the pain. He knows nothing will happen to him. Jedi fight for justice, the courts will handle Grievous. Anakin swallows his anger and brings Grievous in to stand trial.

Meanwhile, Obi Wan catches wind of Maul being around and hunts him for most of the movie, partly as revenge for killing Liam Neeson, but also because Maul is a bad dude, infamous all over, and currently the most powerful (known) sith warrior in the galaxy. The rich and powerful pay Maul to kill someone, and he does it without problem. Anyone with money and influence can have anyone killed, and fear runs through high profile political rivals. In this fear and chaos of assassinations, Palpatine suggests one person take on all responsibilities of the senate. It's easier to guard one person, than an entire senate, he argues. And he's willing to die if need be, in the name of peace and democracy.

After lengthy court battles, Grievous is declared criminally insane and sentenced to life in exile on a far away planet. Obviously behind the scenes Palpatine organized this, but nobody knows that. And also obviously, Grievous escapes and goes on a rampage. He kidnaps Anakin's (now extremely pregnant) wife from the hospital. Anakin is FURIOUS at the council and the senate. They're ineffective, slow, and pointless, he believes. They gave Grievous a light sentence, and he ended up escaping and now his wife is in trouble. He curses the Jedi and curses democracy. He snaps and raises a mob to attack the Jedi temple. They burn it to the ground, killing almost everyone and scattering the survivors to exile in remote planets.

Afterwards, Palpatine meets with Anakin, talks with him, and seduces him to be his new apprentice, explaining his ideals about the Empire and the peace and safety it would bring. But there's a problem. Palpatine already has an apprentice, with Maul. So Palpatine sends Anakin to kill Maul. To lure Maul out, Darth Sidious orders a hit on Palpatine (himself). Palpatine informs the remaining Jedi (Obi Wan, Yoda, some background people) that there may be a hit on him, he needs help. Yoda sends some random Jedi and Obi Wan.

Anakin has some unfinished business with Grievous. He finds him and his half dead, very pregnant wife. He slaughters Grievous and brings his wife to a trusted friend for care (because Anakin is currently a wanted man for the whole Jedi temple stuff)

The random Jedi are near instantly killed by Maul, like as soon as they arrive to get them out of the way. RIP Fisto. Obi Wan survives and escapes, but quietly follows Maul to Palpatine's room. There's a big fight between Maul and Anakin, Anakin gets the upper hand and is about to kill Maul, when Obi Wan shows up. Begs Anakin to let the courts handle Maul. Anakin won't have it, and talks about Grievous escaping. Obi Wan mentions how much he would love to kill Maul for killing Liam Neeson, but he can't do it. It isn't the Jedi way. Anakin says "I am no longer a Jedi" and slides Maul's head off. Obi Wan attacks Anakin and stuff happens, and the building catches fire. Palpatine slips out in the chaos (although the fire did physically scar Palpatine). The fire rages in the entire building as Obi Wan and Anakin duel. After a long battle, Obi Wan gets the upper hand, slices off Anakin's legs and leaves him to die in the fire. He doesn't die, and later Palpatine finds him in the rubble and takes him away to become Vader.

Obi Wan hears about Anakin's wife dying and rushes to her. They manage to save the babies, but she's dead. They do not want Anakin finding the babies, so the trusted friend takes one, and Obi Wan takes the other, noting that he will see if there are any relatives of Anakin's on his home planet of Naboo (otherwise he'll raise him, himself). Yoda grumbles and him and haws that he couldn't believe how blind him and the council were the entire time. He believes he needs to meditate on this and exiles himself to train and reflect on what went wrong. He's lost touch with the force, he believes. Obi Wan also goes into hiding, for his own safety. He needs to remain alive to protect the children, and possibly train them someday.

It ends with the march of the empire playing and the mask being lowered onto Vader. Palpatine explains that Grievous had killed Anakin's wife and unborn children, she didn't make it. Vader notes that it's all the proof he needs to believe the empire is the best path forward, and that the Jedi must be destroyed. They caused this, and untold amounts of other suffering, with their beliefs of democracy and fair justice. Palpatine has a new apprentice, stronger than Maul. Together Vader and Palpatine use their combined political and physical strength to take over the senate, and create the Empire.

Sitting in an old, musty bar, hearing about the news of the new empire and the fall of the Jedi, Jar Jar gets the last, wheezy laugh at how he (and Liam Neeson) were right about the Jedi being stuck in their ways and the real meaning of the force being forgotten, but it's a bittersweet victory and so much has been lost. He's very old at this point, and near death, and he just lowers his head in sadness and coughs. Jar Jar is never heard from again.

Credits roll

Okay this ended up being more fanfiction than I wanted to write. Oh well.

I enjoyed reading your story, and applaud your commitment to typing it all out. Your tale is an absolute treasure of wonders. I especially loved...

Obi Wan attacks Anakin and stuff happens, and the building catches fire.

Maul attacks Palpatine, who quickly dodges, pulls out a light saber, and slices the tips off of Maul's horns. Maul agrees to be his apprentice.

Anakin brutally attacks Grievous, making his suffer as much as possible. Grievous just laughs as he takes the pain.

Also...

After lengthy court battles, Grievous is declared criminally insane and sentenced to life in exile on a far away planet. Obviously behind the scenes Palpatine organized this, but nobody knows that. And also obviously, Grievous escapes and goes on a rampage. He kidnaps Anakin's (now extremely pregnant) wife from the hospital. Anakin is FURIOUS at the council and the senate. They're ineffective, slow, and pointless, he believes. They gave Grievous a light sentence, and he ended up escaping and now his wife is in trouble.

I especially adore how in a Star War movie that features "lengthy court battles", Grevious is tried and sentenced on two separate occasions in the same film.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

In space, taking 2 months to try a mass murderer is a lengthy process!

I'm not a writer. Basically just a stream of consciousness after seeing the PT over the last 2 days. I had 2/3 movies I once liked as a kid ruined because it turns out they were awful and only one of them was worth watching (Return of the Sith).

 

[Warm Machine]

You can only write out the story because it is riffing off of established story points that went through the creative process and were already developed. You get the luxury of seeing what was done and avoiding things you didn't like but also using what you did.

A hundred times I've thought Anakin should have been 12 going on 13 and Jar Jar should have been more of a wise scout. I can only do that because the rest of the work was done for me. If you rewound time and asked me to come up with a Star Wars Episode 1 before I knew such a thing existed my story probably wouldn't have been nearly as interesting as what we got and would have been generic. I sure as hell wouldn't have thought of Pod Racing or Darth Maul and the look wouldn't have been as lush what was made.

 

[yanipheonu]

George, for all his faults, is good at providing new and interesting ideas.

The problem, specifically for the prequels, is that he needs someone to edit his ideas and refuse the ones that are just bad.

 

[Sephzilla]

George, for all his faults, is good at providing new and interesting ideas.

The problem, specifically for the prequels, is that he needs someone to edit his ideas and refuse the ones that are just bad.

Yep, this is ultimately it. George works best when he has some overhead.

 

[Kid Ying]

Starkiller Base is easily the worst part of TFA though, no argument there.



ROTS for me is bogged down by having to carry and fix the shit from the past two movies and on its own has plenty of pretty bad acting and questionable direction.

Not to mention for the finale ROTS beats you over the head with HEY LOOK AT HOW EPIC THIS IS instead of just letting the final battle be epic

See, i understand your opinion and even agree in parts (i do find the final battle cool). I just think treating the three movies as equal in awfulness a bit too much. I guess it depends on how much people can treat the movies as separate entities instead of a single one.

 

[Jigorath]

Quick, everyone quote that giant wall of text

 

[Sephzilla]

See, i understand your opinion and even agree in parts (i do find the final battle cool). I just think treating the three movies as equal in awfulness a bit too much. I guess it depends on how much people can treat the movies as separate entities instead of a single one.

Yeah, I see your point. For me it's kind of hard to treat Revenge of the Sith as its own thing though when so much of it story wise is dependent on Attack of the Clones. Like, Return of the Jedi is less dependent on Empire Strikes Back than ROTS is dependent on AOTC in my opinion. So the AOTC connection just naturally brings it down for me. Part of the reason I think there's an argument to be made that Phantom Menace is the best prequel movie is because it's not bogged down by anything else and is a fairly standalone movie. Revenge of the Sith would ultimately be more fondly remembered if the lead in movie to it wasn't the worst thing the franchise has made since the Holiday Special (and honestly AOTC is the movie that sinks the entire trilogy)

 

[True Savior]

They should give him the keys. Watching the disney movies I've understood I kinda miss Star Wars.

 

[Ondor]

Sounds like this is your real issue with the film.

Don't forget that destroying Starkiller is B-tier plot. Poe Dameron is the guy who blows it up after a sixty-second trench run. The actual main characters are doing different things, like stabbing each other with lightsabers.

It's one of my bigger issues I had with the film but I don't think removing this alone would have made all my criticisms dissipate.

 

[opoth]

Why does everyone hate Starkiller Base? It's the first time one of these superweapons has done something to impact the future plot of the series, the best the OG Death Star was able to do was take out Bail Organa

 

[ryutaro's mama]

People who grew up with the prequels as their first Star Wars experience are grown up and posting online now.

I grew up with the prequel movies as my first Star Wars, but hadn't seen them in forever. I decided to sit down and watch all three this weekend. Return of the Sith was totally fine, but PM and AotCs were really, really bad movies.

PM feels like it doesn't know if it wants to go full kids movie, or political drama. So it awkwardly blends both into a weird movie filled with long periods of boring politics, with bits of ridiculous and not funny slapstick thrown into the mix. Maul is a totally wasted character. Liam Neeson is... not very bright and makes some strange decisions. Also his just outright a criminal who uses his Jedi powers for his own selfish hairbrain schemes. Jar Jar is Jar Jar. A main character you can't understand when he talks who does stupid slapstick, but also is apparently a competent warrior and leader. Anakin is not great at acting and shouldn't have been given such a prominent role.

My take on PM would have had Liam Neeson be a crazy old Jedi, on thin ice with the council, and who believes in this wild conspiracy about a chosen one. He latches onto this child who he believes is the chosen one, despite nobody else feeling anything special about this kid. Is this boy the chosen one? Is Liam Neeson just crazy? Are the Jedi council too stuffy and stuck in their ways to see the force in front of them?

Jar Jar would be a clumsy, but lovable old warrior. Someone who could have been a Jedi if he had trained his life, but instead went the civilian path due to the Gungan's mistrust of the surface world and the Jedi. He believes strongly in the force, but believes the Jedi misuse it and are not truly following the path of the force. He has all the skills of a Jedi, combat wise, but he is not a member of the Jedi order. So he can do flips and stuff (which Jar Jar can already do). He also would speak English (or maybe a slight Jamaican accent), and would basically be "what if Yoda wasn't a Jedi, and didn't trust Jedi, but tagged along on their journey." Because of their shared views of the Jedi being lost and stuck in their ways, Jar Jar and Liam Neeson would be fast friends, bouncing ideas off each other over what the true meaning of "the force" is.

Anakin would barely be in the movie, and would just be a very skilled young warrior at the Jedi temple, training. Liam Neeson would notice his skills and sense something about him, but Anakin wouldn't go on a journey or anything. In fact, we wouldn't even know his name until the very end, when Obi Wan realizes he had only ever known him as "the boy" from Liam Neeson's ramblings, and he introduces himself as "Anakin Skywalker"

Obi Wan would have to teeter the line of trusting his mentor and master Liam Neeson, but also coping with his master possibly being insane and mistrusting the Jedi. At the end, Obi Wan would feel compelled to take this boy as his apprentice, both in respect for Liam Neeson, but also out of respect for the boy who was told he was something great and destined for success.

Darth Maul would be a sith warrior and bounty hunter who wouldn't be Palpatine's apprentice (yet), and the ridiculous idea that there are only two sith at any time (contradicted by literally every other piece of SW media) wouldn't exist. Palpatine knows Liam Neeson is onto something with this chosen one stuff, and quietly hires Maul to dispose of him. At the end, he kills Liam Neeson, but manages to escape Obi Wan to fight another day (and another movie). Instead of payment for the successful assassination (which Maul immediately gets angry at not being paid), Palpatine offers to take Maul on as his apprentice. Maul attacks Palpatine, who quickly dodges, pulls out a light saber, and slices the tips off of Maul's horns. Maul agrees to be his apprentice.

Meanwhile the politics stuff happens and a civil war starts brewing.

Attack of the Clones wouldn't exist and an entirely new movie showing Obi Wan and Anakin's friendship grow and Maul's continued training would instead replace it. Dooku wouldn't exist. Greivous would be introduced in this movie. Clones would just be proto-Storm Troopers, not clones. They raise a near instant galactic army the old fashioned way, using a draft. This causes even more tension as planets do not wish to serve in the "pointless" war and more and more nations start to consider secession. This is also the movie where Anakin falls in love with whoever (it doesn't matter who, she's dying next movie anyway, in this saga, the romance doesn't matter all that much, it's disappointment of the Jedi's failures that turn Anakin dark, not some weird fear of losing his love one) and marries. Everyone knows about it, and Obi Wan is his best man. Also at some point Grievous cuts off both of Anakin's hands.

Early in the third movie Grievous attacks Anakin's (pregnant) wife within an inch of her life, sending her to the hospital for the entire movie. Anakin brutally attacks Grievous, making his suffer as much as possible. Grievous just laughs as he takes the pain. He knows nothing will happen to him. Jedi fight for justice, the courts will handle Grievous. Anakin swallows his anger and brings Grievous in to stand trial.

Meanwhile, Obi Wan catches wind of Maul being around and hunts him for most of the movie, partly as revenge for killing Liam Neeson, but also because Maul is a bad dude, infamous all over, and currently the most powerful (known) sith warrior in the galaxy. The rich and powerful pay Maul to kill someone, and he does it without problem. Anyone with money and influence can have anyone killed, and fear runs through high profile political rivals. In this fear and chaos of assassinations, Palpatine suggests one person take on all responsibilities of the senate. It's easier to guard one person, than an entire senate, he argues. And he's willing to die if need be, in the name of peace and democracy. It's the middle of a terrible war, and they don't have a lot of options, so they agree to make Palpatine emperor and extend his powers.

After lengthy court battles, Grievous is declared criminally insane and sentenced to life in exile on a far away planet. Obviously behind the scenes Palpatine organized this, but nobody knows that. And also obviously, Grievous escapes and goes on a rampage. He kidnaps Anakin's (now extremely pregnant) wife from the hospital. Anakin is FURIOUS at the council and the senate. They're ineffective, slow, and pointless, he believes. They gave Grievous a light sentence, and he ended up escaping and now his wife is in trouble. He curses the Jedi and curses democracy. He snaps and raises a mob to attack the Jedi temple. They burn it to the ground, killing almost everyone and scattering the survivors to exile in remote planets.

Afterwards, Palpatine meets with Anakin, talks with him, and seduces him to be his new apprentice, explaining his ideals about the Empire and the peace and safety it would bring. But there's a problem. Palpatine already has an apprentice, with Maul. So Palpatine sends Anakin to kill Maul. To lure Maul out, Darth Sidious orders a hit on Palpatine (himself). Palpatine informs the remaining Jedi (Obi Wan, Yoda, some background people) that there may be a hit on him, he needs help. Yoda sends some random Jedi and Obi Wan.

Anakin has some unfinished business with Grievous. He finds him and his half dead, very pregnant wife. He slaughters Grievous and brings his wife to a trusted friend for care (because Anakin is currently a wanted man for the whole Jedi temple stuff)

The random Jedi are near instantly killed by Maul, like as soon as they arrive to get them out of the way. RIP Fisto. Obi Wan survives and escapes, but quietly follows Maul to Palpatine's room. There's a big fight between Maul and Anakin, Anakin gets the upper hand and is about to kill Maul, when Obi Wan shows up. Begs Anakin to let the courts handle Maul. Anakin won't have it, and talks about Grievous escaping. Obi Wan mentions how much he would love to kill Maul for killing Liam Neeson, but he can't do it. It isn't the Jedi way. Anakin says "I am no longer a Jedi" and slides Maul's head off. Obi Wan attacks Anakin and stuff happens, and the building catches fire. Palpatine slips out in the chaos (although the fire did physically scar Palpatine). The fire rages in the entire building as Obi Wan and Anakin duel. After a long battle, Obi Wan gets the upper hand, slices off Anakin's legs and leaves him to die in the fire. He doesn't die, and later Palpatine finds him in the rubble and takes him away to become Vader.

Obi Wan hears about Anakin's wife dying and rushes to her. They manage to save the babies, but she's dead. They do not want Anakin finding the babies, so the trusted friend takes one, and Obi Wan takes the other, noting that he will see if there are any relatives of Anakin's on his home planet of Naboo (otherwise he'll raise him, himself). Yoda grumbles and him and haws that he couldn't believe how blind him and the council were the entire time. He believes he needs to meditate on this and exiles himself to train and reflect on what went wrong. He's lost touch with the force, he believes. Obi Wan also goes into hiding, for his own safety. He needs to remain alive to protect the children, and possibly train them someday.

It ends with the march of the empire playing and the mask being lowered onto Vader. Palpatine explains that Grievous had killed Anakin's wife and unborn children, she didn't make it. Vader notes that it's all the proof he needs to believe the empire is the best path forward, and that the Jedi must be destroyed. They caused this, and untold amounts of other suffering, with their beliefs of democracy and fair justice. Palpatine has a new apprentice, stronger than Maul. Together Vader and Palpatine use their combined political and physical strength to take over the senate, and create the Empire.

Sitting in an old, musty bar, hearing about the news of the new empire and the fall of the Jedi, Jar Jar gets the last, wheezy laugh at how he (and Liam Neeson) were right about the Jedi being stuck in their ways and the real meaning of the force being forgotten, but it's a bittersweet victory and so much has been lost. He's very old at this point, and near death, and he just lowers his head in sadness and coughs. Jar Jar is never heard from again.

Credits roll

Okay this ended up being more fanfiction than I wanted to write. Oh well.

Dude, I read all of this, based solely on the effort put into typing all this up.

Bravo.

 

[Sephzilla]

Why does everyone hate Starkiller Base? It's the first time one of these superweapons has done something to impact the future plot of the series, the best the OG Death Star was able to do was take out Bail Organa

While I generally don't like the mindset that TFA was a remake of ANH - Starkiller base is one of those parts that really does feel like they were trying to duplicate ANH. It's a pretty irrelevant part to the movie in my opinion. Do we need to see the Death Star blown up a third time?

 

[DeathyBoy]

Why does everyone hate Starkiller Base? It's the first time one of these superweapons has done something to impact the future plot of the series, the best the OG Death Star was able to do was take out Bail Organa

Because it's unrealistic that an evil former dictatorship would try blowing up the group trying to restore democracy while spreading a xenophobic message of course.

 

[Jumeira]

There was lots of great StarWars in prequels. Nice to see he's somewhat connected

 

[opoth]

While I generally don't like the mindset that TFA was a remake of ANH - Starkiller base is one of those parts that really does feel like they were trying to duplicate ANH. It's a pretty irrelevant part to the movie in my opinion. Do we need to see the Death Star blown up a third time?

It was a plot device to wipe out the government's seat and get Han Solo in front of Kylo Ren. It wasn't really about blowing it up in this case as far as the film was concerned. I would argue that the only time the main thrust of the film blowing up a superweapon was ANH.

 

[DoctorFling]

I wish Starkiller Base absorbed suns and froze solar systems to death

I think that would've been really neat

 

[Not]

I like George. As a person. I really do.

 

[Sephzilla]

I just wish it wouldn't have been another superweapon trope.

Empire Strikes Back showed that you can have a fantastic Star Wars movie where the Empire feels like a threat without resorting to a ridiculous planet killing super weapon.

 

[ryutaro's mama]

I just wish it wouldn't have been another superweapon trope.

Empire Strikes Back showed that you can have a fantastic Star Wars movie where the Empire feels like a threat without resorting to a ridiculous planet killing super weapon.

I think that why we love it so much.

The Empire was just chapped through the entire movie, especially Vader. He wanted that salty run back for that 2 piece and biscuit the Rebellion handed him at Yavin.

Salty Vader is Best Vader.

No one was on his level the entire movie. All our heroes got handled by the most OP Vader. That motherfucker blocked lasers with his hand.

 

[crackhead_bob]

TFA is about as much of a remake of ANH as TPM was. They hit similar plot points but the overall point of the story is different.

If the bar hadn't been set so low with the prequels, TFA might have ended up being a different film. More risks. loftier ideas, etc.. I personally won't pretend that TFA was not a nostalgia piece, but I think playing it safe is what needed to happen before Disney could go bold in terms of mapping out their plots going forward. I enjoyed what Rogue One did, and despite it covering familiar terrain, it managed to do so in some cool and refreshing ways I haven't seen in quite some time. So I'm looking forward to see what happens in Episode VIII. At the very least, I expect Rian Johnson to break from J.J. Abram's nostalgia formula. For all the complaints accusing TFA of ripping off ANH, I think it does so and gets away with it because it managed to present characters that actually spoke and behaved like actual thinking, breathing human beings. Comparing the dialogue and acting between the prequels and TFA is night and day, but it's true. That alone went a long way for myself, as well as many other fans, no doubt.

 

[Sephzilla]

I think that why we love it so much.

The Empire was just chapped through the entire movie, especially Vader. He wanted that salty run back for that 2 piece and biscuit the Rebellion handed him at Yavin.

Salty Vader is Best Vader.

No one was on his level the entire movie. All our heroes got handled by the most OP Vader. That motherfucker blocked lasers with his hand.

Empire Strikes Back and the finale of Rouge One make me want another Salty Vader movie. Vader, when he's pissed off and has a strong drive, is awesome.

 

[LastNac]

What's to apologize for?

"Apologists"?

GAF, you are too cute sometimes

Read the posts gentleman.

It's like an unprecedented defense force going down.

 

[LastNac]

Man, do I love me some GAF revisionist history

Dat Gaf love for whats simultaneously old and yet shiny.

 

[Sephzilla]

You don't need to apologize for a good movie being good

 

[ryutaro's mama]

Empire Strikes Back and the finale of Rouge One make me want another Salty Vader movie. Vader, when he's pissed off and has a strong drive, is awesome.

Dude was so angry, he even managed to invade Luke's visions.

And the best was the poor Admiral who came out of hyperspace a little too close to Hoth.

Vader was handing out ass whoopings the entire movie.