FallingEdge
Member
Drago is the best character in the Rocky series, it makes sense for him to come back.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Dolph Lundgren is doing a training montage to prepare for Creed 2
- Thread starter LordOfLore
- Start date
I really want to know what happened to Drago after Rocky 4 and after seeing Dolph on season 5 of Arrow I think he can give a competent performance.
ryutaro's mama
Member
If Rocky would have just thrown in the towel, he would be alive....but NOOOO, it's ALL Drago's fault...
Bobby Roberts
Banned
That doesn't need to be a Creed movie.
Stallone can find some young director who really hungers to make that Drago spinoff and pour some money into that person's pockets.
But hijacking Donnie's story (which has more than a few interesting, unique directions it could go) to rehash one of the worst Rocky movies made, definitely the most self-indulgent and self-parodical, just because Stallone (who isn't even in creative control of this shit anymore) wants to revisit 1985?
Fuck all that.
He already did. It was called Creed.
Paulie's beer-dispensing fuckbot had more character than Drago.
Pretty sure that a) this is, was, and always will be Stallone's baby and that b) Coogler isn't coming back. Why would he? His star is ascending. He isn't going to make a sequel to a film he made that is already a 6th sequel.
Also would be pretty sure that it won't be Drago vs Rocky. It'll be Drago managing _____ vs Rocky managing Adonis.
Also would be pretty sure that it won't be Drago vs Rocky. It'll be Drago managing _____ vs Rocky managing Adonis.
Lucky Seven
Banned
Hold the fuck up, they're making Creed 2? Nice.
Bobby...Coogler's not coming back.
I'm sorry, Bobby.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
What makes you think Coogler isn't coming back?
Creed isn't Stallone's baby. If there's a Creed series, it needs to not be Stallone's baby.
Stallone doesn't treat his cinematic babies well at all.
Creed isn't Stallone's baby. If there's a Creed series, it needs to not be Stallone's baby.
Stallone doesn't treat his cinematic babies well at all.
ryutaro's mama
Member
How many actor awards did Sly win when he was making all those "better than Coogler" Rocky flicks?
LordOfLore
Banned
If they want the movie out quick he ain't coming back.
IIRC Stallone wants to do one of the movies like Godfather 2 and have scenes from Apollo's life etc.
Tom Nook
Member
If he dies, he dies.
It would be a bizarre career trajectory in my eyes. I mean, I guess Nolan did 2 more Batman movies to solidify himself at WB and get eternal carte blanche. So it isn't unheard of. But let's also not pretend that Coogler made anywhere near the kind of money for MGM that Nolan did for WB. I just don't think it fits where his career is headed. I also don't expect him to do any more than 1 film for Marvel Studios. Get that exposure and move onwards and upwards.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
They can wait. They don't need it out quick. They need it out right.
It took 30 years for someone else (not Stallone) to take the grease fire that was Rocky IV and turn it into something worthwhile. They can wait a little longer for Donnie's story to continue if they need to.
No more stranger than coming off of Fruitvale and deciding his next movie was going to be a Rocky spinoff with Creed's kid.
Dunno why Nolan's even being brought up here.
Alright, Solo, you be quiet.
Coogler is totally doing Black Panther 2.
Hashmal_Bringer_of_Order
Member
In what universe isn't Dragos story deeply tied to Creeds? Drago killed his father! Either they fight or emotionally come to terms and reconcile but the potential of such a story should be obvious!
Bobby Roberts
Banned
This one?
Creed was trotted out and killed off in Rocky IV solely to give Rocky some purpose in his life. The only reason Creed gets killed is because Mickey was killed to do the same thing in the last movie. The only reason Mickey got killed in that movie was because Adrian went into a coma in the previous film.
Drago killing Creed doesn't have much of anything to do with Donnie's story. Donnie ain't even mad at his dad for dying in the ring. Everyone else seems to have more of a problem with it than he does. He's fine with it. He seems to see it as honorable or some shit like that. if anything, the only problem Donnie seems to have with that fight is that Rocky didn't stop it. Maybe.
Drago is tangential to Donnie's story at best. Turning Creed, which is a smaller-scaled personal story (these are the Rocky stories that work best, btw) into an '80s-era "THE RUSSIANS!" nostalgia hash (and yes, I know that's actually what's happening in THE WORLD right now, but it's a pretty different version of that going on in real life, too) because Stallone doesn't have any fucking ideas left in his head is a bad call, Ripley. It's a bad call.
Rocky IV isn't deeply tied to anything. It's masturbatory bullshit. It's a Stallone ego-stroke. Which is what makes Coogler taking any element from it and turning out the film he made even more miraculous.
Stallone can't make that magic anymore. He shouldn't be allowed to attempt it, either. His time in that position is fuckin' done.
Just used him as an example of a (then) up and coming director, drawing a parallel from Fruitville Station to Memento, then making the move to Creed and Batman Begins (yes, I'm ignoring Insomnia - everyone else does), and saying that in Nolan's case he parlayed Batman sequels into a blank check at the studio, and while maybe Coogler could do the same at MGM, I just don't know if I see him making sequels to his own films. But I've been wrong before. Creed certainly doesn't need a sequel.
ryutaro's mama
Member
If Coogler isn't directing or writing, I'm out.
Then Stallone should go make Rocky 7 but if he does, I don't want Adonis anywhere near it.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
I still don't get it. It's not really comparable at all. Even with your ignoring of Insomnia (which also doesn't make sense)
Also, the other weird thing is that, so far as I know, WB hasn't told Stallone he can do any of this. He's not in any creative control so far as I can tell. Nobody's said he should or could do this. He's just basically doing it. And now getting other people involved in doing it - without any go ahead from anyone.
ryutaro's mama
Member
I don't even see it as a maybe. Adonis wouldn't even let him call the fight for him when shit got rough. I think he made peace with his father's death and sure as shit isn't itching for a fight with Drago...or his son...or his protégé...or whatever other fuckery they would concoct to make Drago "fit".
It's weird seeing you guys being so precious about something that wouldn't exist without Stallone.
Not to mention that Stallone, despite not having a credit, was very much involved in writing Creed with Coogler and Covington, and he also gave his best acting performance in 18 years in it.
Not to mention that Stallone, despite not having a credit, was very much involved in writing Creed with Coogler and Covington, and he also gave his best acting performance in 18 years in it.
Dang, Bobby. Did Sly kill your dog or something?
I can see LOTS of potential with Drago and Adonis, especially if you factor in the rise, and fall, of Drago and the cultural changes that have happened since the Soviet Union's prime.
Adonis is "cool" with his dad being punched to death, and yet I'd be excited to see if he's that calm and reserved when in the same room with the guy who killed his father. Whether that paints Drago as a villain or a misunderstood boxer who felt he had to hold a whole nation up on his shoulers, their mutual history of living up to expectations and outside pressure is something worth exploring.
Screw it. There's a ton of potential there, and Dolph is a great actor. I can see this being something special.
Hashmal_Bringer_of_Order
Member
If you really hate Rocky 4 that's fine, but no one says Creed 2: Drago needs to be in the same style. He could meet an older, post-fame Drago who earns nothing helping kids in Moscow's slums, and together they both grow while reconciling former differences, maybe Drago helps him grow as a boxer too. Loads of non-jingoistic potential here.
phillipgessert
Member
I think that the general idea of Apollo having died in the ring works a lot better for a movie like Creed than literally revisiting the details about it would, because the literal details are totally tonally wrong in the same way messing around with Paulie's robot or having a Hogan cameo would be.
Spiritual_Chaos
Banned
nvm
sixteen-bit
Member
Excited for Creed 2
If Ryan Coogler isn't directing, I'll probably skip it.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
He wasn't that much involved in writing the movie with those two.
And his performance has a lot to do with what Coogler gave him, and how Coogler directed him, as well.
No, Stallone didn't kill my dog. But he's got decades of film history to look at and Stallone almost always fucks it up if you leave him alone with something for longer than one movie.
Also there's not a lot of potential here with a Drago-based storyline at all, and Lundgren is a great guy but he's never been a great actor. That's literally never happened.
It's understandable.
Stallone's Creed wouldn't be as good as Coogler's and I wouldn't want him continuing MBJ's Story.
ryutaro's mama
Member
To bring this full circle, the Nolan Batman films wouldn't have existed without Tim Burton (and to a lesser degree, Joel Schumacher) yet, we love the later incarnations more.
It happens.
And to your point about best performance, why didn Sly get that kind of performance out of himself in Rocky Balboa?
Could the difference in each scenario be...directing?!?
FallingEdge
Member
Rocky IV is still the best movie in the series. Bring back Drago. Let him go 1v1 with Creed Jr.
Spiritual_Chaos
Banned
What?
He was as good, if not better in Rocky Balboa. He should have gotten the Oscar nod for that film. Even with the formulaic end fight.
Creed was bafflingly redundant and I can't understand why it got hyped to the extent it was. It felt like a Platinum Dunes remake of Rocky lacking any finesse. But people don't seem to care for The Force Awakens being as redudant as it was either... so... It added absolutely nothing.
I don't recall Creed winning best film of 1977. Please, Bobby, with your encyclopedic knowledge and lore expertise, please enlighten us as to which film did win.
ryutaro's mama
Member
Based on the trajectory and tone of Creed, why do you think this is a good idea?
lightskintwin
Banned
To be fair, Sylvester Stallone's performance in Rocky Balboa was pretty damn good regardless if it didn't get any awards recognition.
ryutaro's mama
Member
And yet, not as good as his performance, in the same role, in Creed.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creed_(film)
Look at all the awards he was both nominated for and won for that role.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
It was 1976. Stallone didn't direct it, either.
Best Picture 1977 was Annie Hall.
Directed by Woody Allen
None of that has anything to do with "lore" nor do you need to be an expert to know it.
Was wondering when that thread's rabbit turds were gonna get tracked in here.
Creed wasn't "redundant" at all. I don't even get this as an argument.
If he could compete for supporting actor in Rocky Balboa, maybe he would have gotten it, but he was a lead and could not be up for supporting actor in Rocky Balboa.
lightskintwin
Banned
FallingEdge
Member
I just like the idea of having Adonis attempting to test himself and get revenge on his dad's behalf. I don't take these movies as serious as others.
Spiritual_Chaos
Banned
It's not in any way a miracle taking that element and turning it into a pointless rehash. They could have gotten to the same basic story with Apollo alive, or with Apollo not existing.
And Stallone can make plenty of magic. As seen by Rocky Balboa. He should have freed Rocky from the formula and understand that it's the character and Stallones overly sentimental storytelling that is the magic. And not the running-in-the-streets and end-fight montages.
If he wanted to bring back the character after the great ending that was Rocky Balboa, he should have focuses more on the drama and less on the Rocky-formula.
With or without Apollos son having a part in it.
And by the way - we don't know how Drago will factor into the story. I'd give Stallone the benefit on of the doubt when it comes to Rocky.
Even with Creed being such a pointless film.
ryutaro's mama
Member
What about Creed's depiction makes you think he is interested in revenge?
Dude, Sandra Bullock won for Best Actress in the Blind Side.
The Blind Side.
Spiritual_Chaos
Banned
Awards is not really a good metric for that.
If that would be the case Return of the King would be 11 Oscars better than Fellowship of the Ring. Which it is not.
The accolades for Creed has more baked into it, than just the acting in that film. But obviously the first film has too.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Again - this doesn't even make any sense as an argument.
Balboa works as a film (and I think it does work) because it's Stallone essentially indulging in a public therapy session for all his mistakes and fuckups with not just that character, but his own stardom. There's a reason he picked that role to investigate those themes.
And what did he do after he made that movie? Slipped right back into his old, self-indulgent, egotistical, empty, sweaty bullshit. At which point Coogler had to resuscitate his reputation yet again.
This is the arc of Stallone's career: Incredible success. Incredible hubris. The long fall. The self-awareness returns, and with it some hunger. Then the make good. Then the success again. Then the hubris, the self-indulgence, the egotism...and people get sick of his shit again, and he doesn't understand why nobody gives a fuck about him anymore. So he self-reflects...
He's going to fuck Creed up. He can't not. This is what he does.
Similar threads
- Locked