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[autumnleaf]

The bikes circling around Adonis while he shadowboxed in the middle of the street was the worst bit of the film.

But yeah I'm sure if you live there you see that happen every day.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

Why does it need to exist? What can you do that doesn't feel like a cynical, repacked, rehash of the first?

The problem there is cynically approaching even the mere attempt at continuing Donnie's story as if it can't be anything but a bad faith emotionless craven panderfest and nothing more.

That's not the (still-hypothetical) film's problem.

The idea that there has to be a pre-existing need to continue a story is part of that unearned cynicism.

Nobody needed Creed, either. But Coogler really wanted to do it, and he pursued telling that unnecessary story, and made it necessary.

Those sorts of questions aren't really reflections on the potential of a future film. They're more like announcements of the bedrock cynicism any film has to break through in order to succeed with you.

 

[Solo]

The bikes circling around Adonis while he shadowboxed in the middle of the street was the worst bit of the film.

But yeah I'm sure if you live there you see that happen every day.

I didn't mind the bikes, but the wheelies, accurate or not, made me cringe a bit.

 

[ryutaro's mama]

The bikes circling around Adonis while he shadowboxed in the middle of the street was the worst bit of the film.

But yeah I'm sure if you live there you see that happen every day.

I didn't mind the bikes, but the wheelies, accurate or not, made me cringe a bit.

If only there was a way to see it happening with actual people...

Oh wait.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5wmJG4wn-_M

 

[Spiritual_Chaos]

Again - this doesn't even make any sense as an argument.

Balboa works as a film (and I think it does work) because it's Stallone essentially indulging in a public therapy session for all his mistakes and fuckups with not just that character, but his own stardom. There's a reason he picked that role to investigate those themes.

And what did he do after he made that movie? Slipped right back into his old, self-indulgent, egotistical, empty, sweaty bullshit. At which point Coogler had to resuscitate his reputation yet again.

This is the arc of Stallone's career: Incredible success. Incredible hubris. The long fall. The self-awareness returns, and with it some hunger. Then the make good. Then the success again. Then the hubris, the self-indulgence, the egotism...and people get sick of his shit again, and he doesn't understand why nobody gives a fuck about him anymore. So he self-reflects...

He's going to fuck Creed up. He can't not. This is what he does.

I think it works for the sentimental scenes, like the one at the icerink, the one at Adrians grave and the scenes with his kid. He has a knack for writing those and deliver in them as Rocky.

But I would rather see a Rocky movie - IF he had to do more after the great ending that was Rocky Balboa - with him after he's finally quit boxing for good. Rather that than a, to me, safe movie but with Stallone replaced with a new Rocky-character stuck in the formula like Creed.

I also don't think Coogler had to resuscitate his reputation. I think Stallone was fine with his reputation.

But I get your arc-description. And sure, you can see it that way. But he's done great work with "empty sweaty" stuff too (if I understand your point correctly there).

Will he fuck a sequel up? I'd say maybe. He knows people loved both Rocky Balboa and Creed for the drama and "seriousness" so I don't think he would turn this is into Rocky IV part 2. But with Creed being so unnecessary as a movie, I don't really care if he does. And maybe as you stated, that is Stallones fate. Haha.

 

[lightskintwin]

I didn't mind the bikes, but the wheelies, accurate or not, made me cringe a bit.

But why did it make you cringe?

 

[Prince of Space]

Creed's the best Rocky movie, but Coogler shouldn't (and likely won't) waste his time with a sequel unless he wants Stallone buzzing in his ear with suggestions for the whole shoot.

 

[Spiritual_Chaos]

You didn't smiley at all when I asked you a direct question:



And you just said you don't think you need to know the culture to find it cheesy...so like I said, you tried rolling some bullshit out there from a position where you DON'T actually know.


.

No on your direct question, I gave a sarcastic answer.

Because i still don't think I need to know that culture to find the scene cheesy. I don't understand what bullshit I'm rolling.

 

[Solo]

But why did it make you cringe?

Slo-mo wheelies is something I found really at odds with the music soaring during an otherwise deeply emotional beat during the training montage. I understand that it's accurate to what people are doing in Philly, so I can't knock it for that. But something really rubbed me wrong seeing Adonis' back enter the frame triumphantly while the music crescendos, only to be flanked a second later by dudes popping wheelies. Kinda pulled me out of it.

 

[Spiritual_Chaos]

Slo-mo wheelies is something I found really at odds with the music soaring during an otherwise deeply emotional beat during the training montage. I understand that it's accurate to what people are doing in Philly, so I can't knock it for that. But something really rubbed me wrong seeing Adonis' back enter the frame triumphantly while the music crescendos, only to be flanked a second later by dudes popping wheelies. Kinda pulled me out of it.

But wait, have you even been to Philly?

 

[ryutaro's mama]

No on your direct question, I gave a sarcastic answer.

Because i still don't think I need to know that culture to find the scene cheesy. I don't understand what bullshit I'm rolling.

Lack of understanding as to why something happened in the film is why a lot of people find it to be "cheesy".

It's ok, man.

I get it.

Slo-mo wheelies is something I found really at odds with the music soaring during an otherwise deeply emotional beat during the training montage. I understand that it's accurate to what people are doing in Philly, so I can't knock it for that. But something really rubbed me wrong seeing Adonis' back enter the frame triumphantly while the music crescendos, only to be flanked a second later by dudes popping wheelies. Kinda pulled me out of it.

This is why I like you Solo. An actual explanation as to why you didn't like it, even though you understood why it was included.

 

[Bruce Springsteen]

You underestimate the power of democracy

Hahaha

 

[Gin-Shiio]

Everything about Creed was so good, but everything I hear about this sounds so bad. I really need this to be good.

 

[ryutaro's mama]

Everything about Creed was so good, but everything I hear about this sounds so bad. I really need this to be good.

If Drago was in the next film (which if Coogler is involved, he won't be) it would not be good.

 

[Solo]

But wait, have you even been to Philly?

I have not! Tried to convince my GF to spend a few more hours on road and visit when we were in NYC last month but she wouldn't bite.

And like I said, I'm not criticizing it because it's some fantastical, made up thing. I understand that this stuff is commonplace there. I'm just saying that it clashed with my sensibilities. It added spectacle to a scene that I felt worked better the more personal it was. That others liked or loved it is cool and in no way bothers me.

 

[Afro Thunder]

Still has the best soundtrack:
-- Hearts on Fire
-- Burning Heart
-- No Easy Way Out
-- Living in America
-- Eye of the Tiger
-- "Training Montage" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqwuYX3fZZc

That's a full card, right there.

This is my workout playlist four days a week.

 

[ryutaro's mama]

I have not! Tried to convince my GF to spend a few more hours on road and visit when we were in NYC last month but she wouldn't bite.

And like I said, I'm not criticizing it because it's some fantastical, made up thing. I understand that this stuff is commonplace there. I'm just saying that it clashed with my sensibilities. It added spectacle to a scene that I felt worked better the more personal it was. That others liked or loved it is cool and in no way bothers me.

And didn't have to use the word "cheesy" to get your point across!

 

[Solo]

I dunno. I understand the pessimism towards this project, I truly do. But I think that if handled correctly there could be some good material to be mined from Adonis encountering the man who literally beat his father to death. Not a revenge story or anything, but more like, how do you process that and rise above it?

And if not, well, Rocky could always end the Cold War again.

 

[Sectorseven]

If it's on in the background and you're not paying attention to it why would it matter?

You basically said of the two, the one you'd like to not pay attention to while you do other shit is Rocky IV.

Which makes sense.

Because it's easily the least of the two films. So you're not gonna miss much by "watching" it for 2 minutes at a time while your attention is pointed elsewhere for however long its on in your periphery.

They each have their purpose. Rocky IV's is to give me a quick fix when I come across it on TV. Creed's is to be praised and never watched again.

 

[Solo]

BTW this thread made me look up and rewatch the final fight in Creed on Youtube again. What an amazing scene (and film!).

"You're a Creed and I love you"

Sure is dusty in here......

 

[ryutaro's mama]

This is my workout playlist four days a week.

Try this on your fifth day:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=190591823&postcount=550

I dunno. I understand the pessimism towards this project, I truly do. But I think that if handled correctly there could be some good material to be mined from Adonis encountering the man who literally beat his father to death. Not a revenge story or anything, but more like, how do you process that and rise above it?

The point is, Adonis' whole arch in Creed was getting out from under his father's shadow, being judged as his own man. Anything that involves Drago undermines that effort, imo.

 

[Solo]

Try this on your fifth day:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=190591823&postcount=550



The point is, Adonis' whole arch in Creed was getting out from under his father's shadow, being judged as his own man. Anything that involves Drago undermines that effort, imo.

You could be right. It obviously would have to be handled with care. But if Bobby is right and this hasn't even been approved by the studio, it can't even happen, right? Stallone can't just will the movie into existence without getting his ass sued.

 

[erlim]

Dolph was 6'5, 250lbs and only 23 years old when they filmed Rocky 4. Dude was a fucking beeeeeast then and still is today.

Bring him back as Heman!

I've met Dolph Lundgren, I had a short film open for one of his movies at a film festival called fantastic fest; he's like 6'2" maybe---definitely not 6'5".

 

[jelly]

I've met Dolph Lundgren, I had a short film open for one of his movies at a film festival called fantastic fest; he's like 6'2" maybe---definitely not 6'5".

Old guys do get shorter. He probably was that height at some point.

 

[Rastafarian42]

What makes you think Coogler isn't coming back ?
Creed isn't Stallone's baby. If there's a Creed series, it needs to not be Stallone's baby.

Stallone doesn't treat his cinematic babies well at all.

Black Panther for one thing if it's successful he'll make a sequel he already has his friend MBJ in the movie. It's a great time to have a franchise tied to his name.

 

[Garlador]

I've met Dolph Lundgren, I had a short film open for one of his movies at a film festival called fantastic fest; he's like 6'2" maybe---definitely not 6'5".

Everywhere I'm looking, he's listed as 6'5". Pictures of him next to 6'3" Terry Crews have him still taller.

 

[ryutaro's mama]

You could be right. It obviously would have to be handled with care. But if Bobby is right and this hasn't even been approved by the studio, it can't even happen, right? Stallone can't just will the movie into existence without getting his ass sued.

If Sly is looking to create a ground swell and leverage Dolph into the movie, i'm not sure that is technically breaking his contract?

I have no idea.

 

[Hashmal_Bringer_of_Order]

Heavy handed Cold War inspired jingoism "remains strong"? Naw.

It isn't like wine.

It had a shelf life.

Like milk.

It's like you didn't even watch the movie. Rocky IV is about how hard work, determination and the power of friendship can overcome cynical cheating and passionless talent. It's also about how two men from wildly different cultures can come to respect each other through the purity of sport, despite what their wider social circles might think or how they disapprove. Furthermore, it ends on a hopeful note, suggesting that East and West are not so different, and that one day our wider societies might too come to terms of mutual respect.

Tell me that isn't relevant today.

 

[Sheroking]

RE: The studio thing. MGM announced it was in development with Sly writing, so he isn't completely flying solo on this. I know Warner has the rights, but if Coogler isn't going to do the sequel, they aren't going to turn down a Creed sequel from Sly.

 

[jufonuk]

That's one of the best workout soundtracks. I used to listen to it all the time along with the Transformers the movie soundtrack.

when I used to do the treadmill and turn the incline up i felt like drago training lol

 

[Bobby Roberts]

RE: The studio thing. MGM announced it was in development with Sly writing, so he isn't completely flying solo on this. I know Warner has the rights, but if Coogler isn't going to do the sequel, they aren't going to turn down a Creed sequel from Sly.

Thanks for the clarification, King.

I wonder what happens if Jordan doesn't wanna come back for this bullshit though. No Coogler, and this... thing that Stallone's writing?

 

[Solo]

Thanks for the clarification, King.

I wonder what happens if Jordan doesn't wanna come back for this bullshit though. No Coogler, and this... thing that Stallone's writing?

What he wants or doesn't want likely doesn't matter given the likelihood he was signed to a multi picture deal. Now, maybe he didn't, but there aren't too many franchises around these days that don't have actors signed for multiple films. Assuming his contract was structured like that.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

What he wants or doesn't want likely doesn't matter given the likelihood he was signed to a multi picture deal. Now, maybe he didn't, but there aren't too many franchises around these days that don't have actors signed for multiple films. Assuming his contract was structured like that.

So nobody really knows what's up which is why I was wondering what would happen if he didn't want to go along with Stallone's retro horseshit

 

[ryutaro's mama]

Ugh. This sounds so fucking shitty.

And Solo is right, he prolly signed a multi-picture deal, which is standard for these types of things.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

This article doesn't seem to mention any contractual obligation

http://variety.com/2015/film/news/michael-b-jordan-creed-sequel-1201649717/

 

[ryutaro's mama]

This article doesn't seem to mention any contractual obligation

http://variety.com/2015/film/news/michael-b-jordan-creed-sequel-1201649717/

Good.

Adonis has two potential nemesis going forward -- Wheeler or a Conlan rematch.

 

[Solo]

I mean, if MJ isn't contractually obligated, and if he doesn't want to do it, then you have no movie. You can't recast Adonis in the very next film after introducing him. You just can't.

 

[ryutaro's mama]

I mean, if MJ isn't contractually obligated, and if he doesn't want to do it, then you have no movie. You can't recast Adonis in the very next film after introducing him. You just can't.

"Help me, Michael B. Jordan, you're our only hope."

 

[DontBeThatGuy]

Rocky IV is still the best movie in the series. Bring back Drago. Let him go 1v1 with Creed Jr.

Fuck no it isn't.

 

[CreepingFear]

Anyone else like me and will watch it if it goes either way? Crazy bullshit retro nostalgia or grounded like Creed 2?

 

[Hashmal_Bringer_of_Order]

Anyone else like me and will watch it if it goes either way? Crazy bullshit retro nostalgia or grounded like Creed 2?

Grounded like Creed but with Ivan Drago!

 

[DontBeThatGuy]

Making Creed 2 focus heavily on Ivan Drago would be some cartoonish Stallone shit that should never come to fruition.

Anyone else like me and will watch it if it goes either way? Crazy bullshit retro nostalgia or grounded like Creed 2?

...But yeah, probably.

 

[TheSecondSpitter]

Drago will turn face in this. Probably will become Adonis' trainer. Mark my words.

 

[DontBeThatGuy]

Drago will turn face in this. Probably will become Adonis' trainer. Mark my words.

I thought all Russians turned face at the end of Rocky IV though? His speech was just that good.

 

[Hashmal_Bringer_of_Order]

I thought all Russians turned face at the end of Rocky IV though? His speech was just that good.

They do but now 30 years later both Drago and Russia are down on their luck and that moment is lost to time. Adonis comes to Dragos struggling business in Moscow for [plot reason] and together they change each others lives for the better.

Also boxing.

 

[Robdraggoo]

Rocky 4 aged like milk.

Nope, fine wine. Other than the first, its my most rewatched Rocky film.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

Nope, fine wine.

Pruno is not a very fine wine

 

[lightskintwin]

Good.

Adonis has two potential nemesis going forward -- Wheeler or a Conlan rematch.

Nah, introduce a new nemesis. I say a bad ass Mexican American fighter.

 

[Hashmal_Bringer_of_Order]

Pruno is not a very fine wine

I'm genuinely sorry you can't see the depth in it.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

I'm genuinely sorry you can't see the depth in it.

What makes you think I can't see what it's trying to do? It's not like its hidden.

It just does it all really, really fucking poorly. And perfunctorily on top of that, because it's obvious that Stallone doesn't really care that much about any of the themes he's greasing up and sliding into the film (at least, not beyond their function in making him look good). What he cares about is making an entire movie out of nothing but glossy montages. It's the only thing the film is successful at.

As such, the film feels empty. It's a bunch of lazy, shortcutted emotional sensations tethered to nothing, stitched back-to-back-to-back-(to back-tobacktoba) and slathered in baby oil.

Rocky IV is a piece of shit. Or to use the wine analogy from upthread, it's not even Gallo or Martini & Rossi. Or fuckin Franzia. Or Mad Dog 20/20.

Shit's PRUNO.

I don't know who that guy is in the movie but it's not Rocky Balboa.