Fantastapotamus
Wrong about commas, wrong about everything
This thread is a riot
So many people have no idea how business works
So many people have no idea how business works
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Tim Sweeney: Not sure why Steam is still taking 30%
- Thread starter Renekton
- Start date
If that's case then they should be financing game too. Many just market by throwing free keys outthere or bundling game. you could do that yourself too (but it will hurt more than help)
Bonus: EU contries will take 19-27% for copies sold there. that's a lot.
Huge Succeeded
Banned
You know how I know this is a Steam thread?
Look at all of the people who don't use Steam and don't know anything at all about Steam, chiming in about what Steam is.
this this this this this
anyone who disputes this, again, doesn't use Steam, and doesn't know a damn thing about Steam
BUT AT LEAST THEY'D BE IN GOOD COMPANY HERE HUH
I'm bringing this straight to the new page for you senselessly salty console gamers tototally ignore because this post isn't a AAA game read
Look at all of the people who don't use Steam and don't know anything at all about Steam, chiming in about what Steam is.
this this this this this
anyone who disputes this, again, doesn't use Steam, and doesn't know a damn thing about Steam
BUT AT LEAST THEY'D BE IN GOOD COMPANY HERE HUH
I'm bringing this straight to the new page for you senselessly salty console gamers to
LordRaptor
Member
but
Every Steam thread is.
I guess in a way that tells you just how successful it is -- and, just maybe -- how much it irks some people when they defend a company for e.g. requiring an (increasing) monthly fee for online gameplay or cloud saves and others can point to Steam to show that this is, in spite of all the arguments, in fact not at all a necessity.
Yeah. Especially very true 10+ years ago, when "competitors" were like you got 90 days to download and after that you got to rebuy unless you bought warranty upgrades to 1 years download time. Or try to charge monthly payment for multiplayer. etc.
Same as the consoles, same as the Epic Launcher, same as iOS, same as Android.
SystemUser
Member
Valves cut might sound like too much, but they replace distribution, manufacturing, retail, and some publishing services. The price of entry for a indie has probably never been lower.
Saucycarpdog
Member
I'll parrot for the millionth time, the 30% is the same across all platforms. The App store, Amazon store, Google Play, PSN, XBL, and every other store take the same cut.
Steam is not a monopoly. I'll prove it. Let's play a game. Which of these games were sold on Steam?
Steam is not a monopoly. I'll prove it. Let's play a game. Which of these games were sold on Steam?
Yeah I don't see any controversy adhering to industry standards. Obviously, if you are like Blizzard or an Asian MMO company and have transaction histories with customers about as long as Valve's, you will keep rolling with that infrastructure. But I don't see the point of showing up a decade late to the party and then complaining that Valve acted first and spent the money to build a huge, very active customer base.
Kinda surprised somebody hasn't just tried an Amazon-On-iOS approach, where a web portal handles item purchasing, but I could see Valve not allowing it. Do starter packs for Gigantic bought on Arc (which Valve allows to be automatically installed) not show up in the Steam version?
I'll parrot for the millionth time, the 30% is the same across all platforms. The App store, Amazon store, Google Play, PSN, XBL, and every other store take the same cut.
Steam is not a monopoly. I'll prove it. Let's play a game. This is the list of the top grossing PC games of 2015. Which ones were sold on Steam?
I am guessing that Western markets is the topic on Sweeney's mind, unless that is exclusively what the image refers to? Blizz doesn't even handle their own distribution in China, which makes things a bit fuzzy.
Huge Succeeded
Banned
How this thread makes me feel:
me & everyone in here who's ever actually used Steam
|
|
v
Well, I guess that makes Spotify the effective monopoly effective monopoly effective monopoly they're an effective monopoly effective monopoly they're an effective monopoly
Maybe Tim should think what would happen if Valve drops their taking to, let's say, 10%.
Most developers would want people to buy their games on Steam instead of GOG, UPlay, Origin, Humble Store or whatever other store, and those other stores maybe can't afford lower their revenue to that extent.
So in the end Steam would gain even more power.
So maybe he should ask EA and CDProjekt why they are taking 30% instead of a lower value that could make their platform more attractive to developers.
Most developers would want people to buy their games on Steam instead of GOG, UPlay, Origin, Humble Store or whatever other store, and those other stores maybe can't afford lower their revenue to that extent.
So in the end Steam would gain even more power.
So maybe he should ask EA and CDProjekt why they are taking 30% instead of a lower value that could make their platform more attractive to developers.
Huge Succeeded
Banned
edit: just consolidating posts
Zap Rowsdower
Banned
Honestly I think it's just jealousy at this point. It's the only reasonable explanation aside from absolute ignorance for why console players still think Steam is some kind of robber baron boogeyman when in actuality PC has the most diverse marketplace in the industry. (i.e. Steam, Origin, UPlay, GOG, Battle.net, Humble Bundle, LoL, etc.)How this thread makes me feel:
me
|
|
v
what is wrong with you people
Some friendly advice though to strictly console players, its really not hard to get into PC gaming. You don't even need a high end rig or need to have a lot of technical know how because a lot of PC games aren't that demanding aside from newer stuff and most of those are multiplatform anyway. A basic laptop could probably run the majority of everything GOG sells for example.
joe_zazen
Member
Sweeney's point has been missed. Like visa and MasterCard, Valve adds very little into the chain: all three are parasitic rent seekers, and valve is worse because they take 30%. It is a slam highlighting how little valve does for gaming in general given how much they take from it.
Could the same charges be levelled at Sony, Nintendo, and Microsoft? IDK to be honest. Steam just seems to be a kinda crappy digital storefront, could be wrong tho.
Could the same charges be levelled at Sony, Nintendo, and Microsoft? IDK to be honest. Steam just seems to be a kinda crappy digital storefront, could be wrong tho.
And the discussion here has been knowledgeable folks who know what they're talking about explaining why that's completely incorrect.
I'll just quote this, since there's not really any way I can do better:
(Except to note that the "Several engine tech stacks, including the major tech stack for VR, completely free" really is very significant, even outside the obvious stuff which most enthusiasts know about like VR)
You are completely and utterly wrong. Steam does more than any of them for its users, without asking them for a monthly fee. And, as outlined above, it does at least as much for developers too.
Deadpool_X
Banned
I'm shocked at all the people who didn't realize Valve takes a 30% cut of all Steam sales. I assumed it was common knowledge. It's been mentioned here on GAF multiple times in the past.
The short answer to Tim's question is that Valve takes a 30% cut because they can. Valve has created tons of loyal customers who have addict-level dependency habits. They refuse to buy anything unless it's 90% off. They refuse to purchase on any store that isn't Steam. As long as Valve hold a this mindshare over PC Gamers, they can charge whatever the hell they want and people will let them.
The short answer to Tim's question is that Valve takes a 30% cut because they can. Valve has created tons of loyal customers who have addict-level dependency habits. They refuse to buy anything unless it's 90% off. They refuse to purchase on any store that isn't Steam. As long as Valve hold a this mindshare over PC Gamers, they can charge whatever the hell they want and people will let them.
joe_zazen
Member
They don't extract a fuck ton of money from the system while giving the gaming world nothing but a kinda crappy storefront? Do they have scholarship programs? Third world game dev outreach? Etc? If so, my apologies
Yeah if only Valve let them escape they could purchase games on all the other services that also charge 30%.
So you're just going to ignore this post? http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=246822768&postcount=621
A Grizzly Bear
Member
Yeah, but they're not trying to cure world hunger, so it's just a "kinda crappy storefront" we're getting for that 30%.
steamworks is one the reason we see japanese devs on PC. a stable API that can help them to invest in the platform long term with limited piracy and online services.
Phrozenflame500
Member
Yes, those parasitic VISA and Mastercard, companies that *just* run some of the most advanced international payment systems on the planet.
And similarly to them Valve makes money hand over fist because they run a valuable consolidated marketplace that handles the majority of the headaches of payment and distribution.
Have you actually read the post I quoted above?
Just to give you an idea, just the single point (out of 20) "several engine tech stacks, including the major tech stack for VR, completely free" includes
- basic research fundamental to every current consumer VR implementation
- a full game engine and toolset, completely free
- contributions to open standards, including OpenGL, Vulkan and OpenXR
- development of great rendering debugging tools like VOGL
- an extremely solid, feature-rich and hassle-free build packaging and patch distribution mechanism
(that allows even individual developers to keep games up to date professionally, easily and while distributing only a minimum of data) - a full audio stack with state-of-the-art features that you are completely free to integrate in anything
- and probably a lot more stuff I haven't personally used yet and which I can't think of right now
In conclusion, you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.
joe_zazen
Member
Just saw the list of stuff, maybe it is worth 30%. :shrug:
It is a unique monopoly that doesn't overcharge/rent seek. I doubt valve is such a unicorn.
Abilidebob
Member
You know, I really like Neogaf.
But there's ONE thing I absolutely loathe about it, although that could be argued to be the same for pretty much every single "forum":
How discussion just seems to "reset". We're at page 13, and there still are people that didn't read the entire thread or, hell, even the last page, and feel the need to regurgitate the same stupid-ass arguments that were rebunked again and again on this thread. This will go on for a few more pages, then the discussion will settle down. Then a few hours later, it'll start all over again. It's just tiring. It's like people are trying to win an argument by attrition.
But there's ONE thing I absolutely loathe about it, although that could be argued to be the same for pretty much every single "forum":
How discussion just seems to "reset". We're at page 13, and there still are people that didn't read the entire thread or, hell, even the last page, and feel the need to regurgitate the same stupid-ass arguments that were rebunked again and again on this thread. This will go on for a few more pages, then the discussion will settle down. Then a few hours later, it'll start all over again. It's just tiring. It's like people are trying to win an argument by attrition.
Head.spawn
Junior Member
By crappy you mean the best and most feature rich on PC, right?
My dude, I think you should stop posting now.
You're quoting the wrong post. That was a phrase from the post A Grizzly Bear was quoting in their post.
Herp Derpington
Member
You clearly know very little about the platform then. Why wouldn't you attempt to research your opinions before posting? Just wanted to throw that hot sports opinion out there? It's been stated multiple times by multiple people what exactly steam is and does. Needless to say this is another ridiculous Sweeney quote.
joe_zazen
Member
Lol, yeah, I'm done...too many know-it-all angry fans for this know-little tired non-fan.
A Grizzly Bear
Member
Nah, it's just some cheap eCommerce CRM with an ancient skin on it.
And, in case it isn't obvious...
/s
Your willingness to make declarations despite a vast ignorance is really an inspiration. And then having the audacity to blame everyone else who actually knows stuff for correcting you...the cherry on top. Great job.
Weird. Bye guy who knows nothing, posts uninformed bullshit then acts the victim when called out on it.
I'm fairly certain publishers like Bethesda and Square Enix make more money off of a full-price sale on Steam than they do a full-price sale of a console game at retail.
The latter involves writing to a physical medium, shipping across the country, the store's cut, and Playstation/Xbox/Nintendo's cut (which is probably close to 30% itself if I had to guess). The console makers love big 3rd party releases - they make a ton of money for little effort on their part.
The latter involves writing to a physical medium, shipping across the country, the store's cut, and Playstation/Xbox/Nintendo's cut (which is probably close to 30% itself if I had to guess). The console makers love big 3rd party releases - they make a ton of money for little effort on their part.
Abilidebob
Member
The "it seems" makes it obvious he doesn't use the store. Or PC in general
I sincerely have no idea why do people that don't know what they're talking about feel the need to give stupid-ass statements about these things. I don't own a PS4, but I don't go into a PS4 thread to shitpost about it, how the download speeds are terrible, how the security is bad, how there's no refunds or anything else.
LordRaptor
Member
...and ends with the always classic "u mad",
I like Tim, but he is way off base here. Valve/Steam has done more for PC gaming than anyone else I can think of. They made a platform that is friendly to both indie games and AAA releases. Steam sales expose people to tons of games they most likely would have never tried. They built a freaking VR system inside of it.
They take zero freaking dollars for multiplayer gaming, unlike Microsoft / Sony.
This is a case where if Tim thinks he can do the same job for a smaller cut, you need to show the goods.
They take zero freaking dollars for multiplayer gaming, unlike Microsoft / Sony.
This is a case where if Tim thinks he can do the same job for a smaller cut, you need to show the goods.
Zeyphersan
Banned
Maybe if you recognize that you know-little you should stop and reflect on if coming into a thread and making bold claims is such a good idea
Food for thought for your next reply
It would be perfectly fine for you to go into a PS4 thread.
However, one should read the thread before posting their hot takes. Most often if a person knows nothing other people will have done the legwork to help a know-nothing become a know-something.
Left 4 Dead 3 first.
So instead of acknowledging this post (http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=246822768&postcount=621) you're just going to bounce?
What good does that serve the discourse?
Abilidebob
Member
You're right, I may have worded that wrong. But it's as you said. The very minimum you need to do to post claims such as the ones posted in this thread is to read the thread you're posting in.