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[ThLunarian]

I dunno. It's just a generic wacky effect you can't really do anything with.

That card is a powerful political tool in multiplayer. You can threaten people, become their saviors, and stab people in the back for zero mana investment, turn after turn. It's a bullying tool and a bribery tool all in one.

It's a lot more than just a time-delayed repeatable Drain Life (which in itself sounds pretty decent)

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

People do NOT understand how good Opt is. It's better than Serum Visions by a LOT in most decks.

is it really? serum visions appears to have 2 functions primarily, to hit your land drops and set up future draws.

Instant speed doesn't matter for hitting land drops and chaining opt isn't nearly as powerful as chaining serum visions when you're digging for something specific.

 

[bigkrev]

"Redoubled Strike" - 1RR
Sorcery- 3 damage to any target.
Raid- 3RR: Return ~ from gy to hand if you attacked this turn.

This is a cool Hammer of Bogarden variant! Might be standard playable, even

 

[Supast4r]

People do NOT understand how good Opt is. It's better than Serum Visions by a LOT in most decks.

Idk about better. I'm more interested in seeing decks run both cards and drop their mana curves so they can be more consistent.

 

[bigkrev]

People do NOT understand how good Opt is. It's better than Serum Visions by a LOT in most decks.

I agree, but it does not seem to be a consensus. Rachel Agnes wrote about the card for CFB yesterday, saying that it is worse than Serum Visions, but on the power level/may be better than Sleight of Hand

Opt is worse than Serum Visions. Serum Visions is close in power level to Preordain. In fact, Serum Visions can occasionally be better than Preordain in instances where you prioritize setting up your draws over digging. A format like Vintage takes advantage of Preordain more because the difference in card quality between your best and worst cards is vast. Digging deeper to find your best spells is better than making sure you hit land drops. Serum Visions I have found to be much better in formats like 1v1 Commander and Duel Commander where you want to see what you draw first, then sculpt things going forward. Do I need lands or spells at this time? That is a question Serum Visions answers even better than Preordain since you gain the information first.

But it is only because Preordain is banned in Modern that Serum Visions is played there. And consequently, because Serum Visions is legal, I don't believe Opt will replace it.

 

[divisionbyzorro]

Serum Visions looks at three cards and can get you to the fourth (but you only get the first card now). Opt looks at only one and can get you to the second (and you can get it now), at the trade-off of being instant speed. I would be shocked if Opt just wholesale replaced Serum Visions, but I'm sure some decks that want to play draw-go would give it a shot.

 

[Santiako]

Opt is so much better for any snapcaster deck.

 

[Justin]

I would be surprised if its the last one, there's only one green mythic (Carnage Tyrant) but 2 of every other color. They go over 15 all of the time these days.

We are actually at 17 mythics which the last few sets have had. SOI had 18 so I guess they are not set on the amount.

It seems like Vampires and Merfolk have been an afterthought during spoiler season. The number of creatures for each tribe revealed so far
Dinosaurs - 31
Pirates - 31
Vampires - 12
Merfolk - 12

 

[red13th]

Well they are the 2 colour tribes.

 

[divisionbyzorro]

Opt is so much better for any snapcaster deck.

I'm not convinced it's that much better than Thought Scour, to be honest, although I'm not willing to fight a battle over that opinion.

 

[OnPoint]

I'm not convinced it's that much better than Thought Scour, to be honest, although I'm not willing to fight a battle over that opinion.

You're going to fight that battle often if you play Modern, me thinks.

 

[Santiako]

I'm not convinced it's that much better than Thought Scour, to be honest, although I'm not willing to fight a battle over that opinion.

It's much better if you don't have Delve cards, if you do, you'll go 4 Opt 4 Scour and then add Visions. I assume Grixis DS will go max Xerox and play 12 cantrips, 4 Street Wraith and cut some lands.

 

[SigmasonicX]

Well they are the 2 colour tribes.

Plus, they're already well established tribes, while dinosaurs and pirates are effectively new.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

It's much better if you don't have Delve cards, if you do, you'll go 4 Opt 4 Scour and then add Visions. I assume Grixis DS will go max Xerox and play 12 cantrips, 4 Street Wraith and cut some lands.

I don't think they ever went over 10 with 2 additional sleight of hand before.

Plus, they're already well established tribes, while dinosaurs and pirates are effectively new.

on the other end of the spectrum, merfolk is an established modern deck and people are thirsty.

 

[Justin]

While we wait for the last batch of spoilers I just wanted to post at how much I love the art on Indomitable Creativity

 

[Justin]

 

[Justin]

Shipping Jace and Vraska now

 

[ultron87]

RIP Jace.

 

[Santiako]

Holy shit, they really want Ux tempo to be a thing. That card is fantastic.

 

[Crocodile]

We are actually at 17 mythics which the last few sets have had. SOI had 18 so I guess they are not set on the amount.

It seems like Vampires and Merfolk have been an afterthought during spoiler season. The number of creatures for each tribe revealed so far
Dinosaurs - 31
Pirates - 31
Vampires - 12
Merfolk - 12

Pirates and Dinosaurs are 3 color and have little to no support for this block so WOTC is going ham in their numbers so that you can run good tribal decks with them from just this set.

Vampires and Merfolk are only in two colors and have tons of support in previous sets. They don't need as many cards in this set to get the job done.

Shipping Jace and Vraska now

Why 2 or less CMC for the bonus? Why not 3/4 or less? Why not 5+?

 

[OnPoint]

[imghttp://s3.gatheringmagic.com/uploads/2017/09/14/ST_2.jpg[/img]

Shipping Jace and Vraska now

Her reaction to finding him sold me that they were slightly going that direction...

I just think she's joining the Gatewatch by the end of this.

 

[Joe Molotov]

That's a rare? We're a long ways from Kaladesh, fam.

 

[Justin]

It's probably just an excuse for him to be wearing even less clothes in Rivals.

 

[kirblar]

I agree, but it does not seem to be a consensus. Rachel Agnes wrote about the card for CFB yesterday, saying that it is worse than Serum Visions, but on the power level/may be better than Sleight of Hand

Thats one of the two articles I saw that prompted my reaction.

She does not get how much more powerful scry before draw is. Opt is better than Serum Visions in the vast majority of decks.

 

[DrArchon]

There has to be some way to Explore outside of creatures entering the battlefield, like "Pay mana, tap, explore". Otherwise this thing is one of the most worthless rare cards I've ever seen.

Hell, even then it's still terrible. It could've been a straight up bear that gains +1/+1 whenever you explore and it wouldn't be busted. It didn't have to be a vehicle, much less one with a crew cost of 2. Why is this not uncommon? It's base power is low and it has no combat abilities. You have to play a bunch of creatures that explore for it to even start looking good and even then it still gets chump blocked.

This on the other hand is fantastic. Perfect for a more aggressive blue deck. Scry 2 is so good for making sure you get what you want off the top. Only downside is you can't target your own stuff to get the Scry 2.

 

[FreedomFrisbee]

Her reaction to finding him sold me that they were slightly going that direction...

I just think she's joining the Gatewatch by the end of this.

If you're a villain, do you want Ravnica to be in complete chaos, or do you want the Supreme Ruler of Ravnica to be in your debt?

 

[OnPoint]

If you're a villain, do you want Ravnica to be in complete chaos, or do you want the Supreme Ruler of Ravnica to be in your debt?

Her genuinely concerned response says to me it's more than just that. One of the times they actually got the writing right.

 

[SigmasonicX]

There has to be some way to Explore outside of creatures entering the battlefield, like "Pay mana, tap, explore". Otherwise this thing is one of the most worthless rare cards I've ever seen.

We already saw an explore activated ability.

 

[Justin]

Edit: beat ----^

 

[DrArchon]

We already saw an explore activated ability.

Alright then. Must've missed that. There'd better be some repeatable exploring outside of rare though for that ship not to be the worst card in the set.

 

[A Serious Man]

That's a rare? We're a long ways from Kaladesh, fam.

This is a late pick if you already have 5+ explore cards and that's about it. Maybe there are enough good explore cards that you want this but I can't see anyone ever taking it early.

 

[red13th]

It's probably just an excuse for him to be wearing even less clothes in Rivals.

I'll never not support this

 

[shrapnelmagnet]

The card count you need for decks is much higher this way than with the Duels structure so they'll absolutely have a problem if they stick to equivalent pricing. Every other CCG in the market has a more generous F2P strategy than Hearthstone and WotC will have to follow suit here to get real traction.

It's on a CCG model, it's 100% going to have dusting or equivalent.

Yeah, that's reasonable, but they will presumably start you with either pre-built decks you can edit or, at least, with a card pool to start with.

However it works, I am really looking forward to giving it a whirl I am tempted to go to my first ever pre-release or do the MTGO pre-release, even lol.

 

[divisionbyzorro]

Thats one of the two articles I saw that prompted my reaction.

She does not get how much more powerful scry before draw is. Opt is better than Serum Visions in the vast majority of decks.

Opt gives you less library manipulation than Sleight of Hand, and nobody played Sleight of Hand over Serum Visions. The added value comes entirely from the instant speed nature of the card. So I'd still argue that Opt is only "better" than Sleight of Hand for decks that actively want to pass the turn with mana open, unless you want to argue that people should have been playing Sleight of Hand over Serum Visions all along.

 

[kirblar]

Opt gives you less library manipulation than Sleight of Hand, and nobody played Sleight of Hand over Serum Visions. The added value comes entirely from the instant speed nature of the card. So I'd still argue that Opt is only "better" than Sleight of Hand for decks that actively want to pass the turn with mana open, unless you want to argue that people should have been playing Sleight of Hand over Serum Visions all along.

It's the inverse, Serum Visions is only better in decks that don't care about passing the turn w/ mana open and which generally aren't trying to dig and then play an action card the same turn.

The ability to search for an immediate answer is really big.

edit: Also the issue w/ Sleight of Hand is that you can't keep both.

 

[Simply Sarah]

Thats one of the two articles I saw that prompted my reaction.

She does not get how much more powerful scry before draw is. Opt is better than Serum Visions in the vast majority of decks.

Yeah, the whole "Serum Visions is almost at the level of Preordain" part really stood out as just totally wrong. An immediate filtered draw while having that filtering flow forward to future draws is much better than a blind draw and then being able to filter future draws.

 

[divisionbyzorro]

It's the inverse, Serum Visions is only better in decks that don't care about passing the turn w/ mana open and which generally aren't trying to dig and then play an action card the same turn.

The ability to search for an immediate answer is really big.

edit: Also the issue w/ Sleight of Hand is that you can't keep both.

The issue with Opt is that you don't get to see the second card - you have to evaluate the top card without knowing what's underneath. That's way worse than the edge case of really wishing you could have both of the top cards.

It sounds like you think people should be playing Sleight of Hand over Serums Visions.

Are we still stuck playing Serum Visions because we're holding onto habits from when we played 4 Delvers in our decks?

 

[kirblar]

The issue with Opt is that you don't get to see the second card - you have to evaluate the top card without knowing what's underneath. That's way worse than the edge case of really wishing you could have both of the top cards.

It sounds like you think people should be playing Sleight of Hand over Serums Visions.

No, the issue w/ Sleight of Hand is that you can't keep both cards. Visions gives you a random card and then lets you filter the next two.

 

[divisionbyzorro]

The ability to search for an immediate answer is really big.

edit: Also the issue w/ Sleight of Hand is that you can't keep both.

No, the issue w/ Sleight of Hand is that you can't keep both cards. Visions gives you a random card and then lets you filter the next two.

Everything you've said that's "bad" about Sleight of Hand is also "bad" about Opt, and Opt is actually worse than Sleight of Hand in terms of library manipulation.

So to be clear: you value the instant-speed nature of Opt so highly that even though it's the worst of the three cards in terms of library manipulation, you think it's the card everyone should be playing.

I'm not saying you're wrong. I just want to be clear about what you're saying makes Opt good.

 

[kirblar]

Everything you've said that's "bad" about Sleight of Hand is also "bad" about Opt, and Opt is actually worse than Sleight of Hand in terms of library manipulation.

So to be clear: you value the instant-speed nature of Opt so highly that even though it's the worst of the three cards in terms of library manipulation, you think it's the card everyone should be playing.

I'm not saying you're wrong. I just want to be clear about what you're saying makes Opt good.

Yes, being able to dig up a reactive spell during your turn OR your opponent's turn is incredibly valuable.

What I value is "search, then draw", because that allows one to reliably "Opt, then Take Action" without passing with massive amounts of unused mana, either on your turn.

And no, they are very different in that Sleight will not allow you to keep both cards.

The card to compare Opt to is Preordain, and Preordain is fucking bonkers because of how much immediate action it enables.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Holding up mana instead of digging matters most to cryptic command decks. The answers in modern are cheap enough you can most of the time do it despite playing serum visions.

 

[kirblar]

Opt will go into a lot of decks that won't touch Serum Visions with a ten foot pole because of the way in which the card enables you to maintain card velocity and tempo.

 

[divisionbyzorro]

And no, they are very different in that Sleight will not allow you to keep both cards.

This argument is meaningless with respect to Opt. Sure, Sleight doesn't let you keep both cards, but Opt forces you to keep the second card (barring the intervention of another filter). You either draw it straight away with Opt (if you push the top card) or you leave it on top.

Sleight of Hand says "you get the best card out of your top two."
Opt says "you can take the top card, or you get (essentially) a random redraw."

Yes, Opt is better in the situations where you wanted both of the top two cards, but you don't know if you're in that situation or not until you've actually drawn the next card. So Opt is way worse in situations where you want the top card but don't want the second.

The card to compare Opt to is Preordain, and Preordain is fucking bonkers because of how much immediate action it enables.

I'm sort of with you here, but Scry 2 is way more than twice as good as Scry 1, so the comparison kinda falls flat IMO.

Opt will go into a lot of decks that won't touch Serum Visions with a ten foot pole because of the way in which the card enables you to maintain card velocity and tempo.

That's a really, really good point. I was not considering this point at all - that there are decks that currently don't play cantrips because there wasn't one that met their use case until now.

 

[FreedomFrisbee]

Opt v Serum Visions v Sleight of Hand is very dependent on the deck. None of them are obviously better than the other. Each has strengths and weaknesses.

 

[OnPoint]

Opt v Serum Visions v Sleight of Hand is very dependent on the deck. None of them are obviously better than the other. Each has strengths and weaknesses.

Which I think is what Kirblar has been saying.

 

[Hero]

Opt is going to help enable blue control based decks.

 

[kirblar]

Opt v Serum Visions v Sleight of Hand is very dependent on the deck. None of them are obviously better than the other. Each has strengths and weaknesses.

I think Sleight is worse than Opt in most decks, only better in decks that need to search out very specific cards like Storm.

 

[Daedardus]

I don't know if I would replace Serum Visions for Opt in my Jeskai Control deck. It's so dependent on many factors. If Preordain or Ponder was unbanned however, there would be no question.

 

[Supast4r]

Opt will go into a lot of decks that won't touch Serum Visions with a ten foot pole because of the way in which the card enables you to maintain card velocity and tempo.

Which is what decks? The vast majority of blue decks play serum.

 

[Glix]

What do we think the baseline is for a 2cmc crew 2 vehicle? How many counters need to be on it before it hits "value"?