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[charlequin]

"Effects while in Command Zone" was obviously a bad idea at the time, not surprised it keeps getting worse.

It's not worse, the C17 commanders aren't anything like the problem with Oloro (or Derevi for that matter.) Oloro literally just gives you a free resource every turn as long as he's around, there's absolutely no way to deal with it for the other players.

The Eminence commanders all rely on playing tribe creatures. Three of the four only have an effect at the actual time you cast a creature from the tribe, so if your hand is empty or you're mana-screwed or whatever they do nothing. Arahbo's the closest to the Oloro style here and even then he does nothing unless you have a Cat you're going to attack with this turn.

I can't speak to whether any of this is broken in 1:1 because 1:1 is a dumb format -- like, not that people shouldn't play it if it's fun, but by its very conception it's going to only ever work with an extraordinarily aggrressive banlist policy.

I agree with GregLombardi. Just because they're not as broken or all-around as Oloro, itdoesn't make them fair or fun. Its still a terrible design that literally awards you for not playing the commander.

Inalla's the only one of the four that's arguably good enough in the CZ and adds little enough in play that you'd want to chill with her there. Edgar and Ur-Dragon both have much better abilities on the board and Arahbo's second ability dramatically improves his first one.

 

[Santiako]

I just bought 8 Ripjaw Raptor from mkm, it seems really underpriced at 3.75€.

 

[kirblar]

It's a "Emblems you get to start with in play on T0 are bad design" thing.

 

[Imperfected]

I agree with GregLombardi. Just because they're not as broken or all-around as Oloro, itdoesn't make them fair or fun. Its still a terrible design that literally awards you for not playing the commander.

This just isn't true. If you haven't played against an Ur-Dragon deck that's been retooled to actually use the Ur-Dragon, you frankly have no idea how much more pants-shittingly terrifying it is as a fielded command than an anthem. The same goes for Edgar Markov and, to an admittedly lesser extent, Arahbo.

The only 2017 Commander that doesn't even want to be cast is Inala, and that's just because Inala is rubbish in general.

 

[charlequin]

It's a "Emblems you get to start with in play on T0 are bad design" thing.

I think Conspiracy is an instructive example here. The Conspiracy format is defined by being about starting with emblem-style effects on turn 0, most of which are more powerful and less disruptable than any of the Eminence effects. It still works okay because everyone has potential access to these effects, and using them involves a cost (in this case, burning a draft pick on them.) Alternately, look at the old Vanguard format, which was defined just by people picking a card with a default, turn-zero ability to play with.

The Eminence abilities are in similar territory. To get any of them you're paying a specific upfront cost -- using the relevant commander and building a tightly tribal deck (because the abilities all only work on correctly typed creatures.) If you don't have any matching creatures you're getting nothing from it, and you're losing out on what you could've gotten from playing a different commander instead. That tradeoff is only an issue if the ability itself is overpowered or otherwise problematic, and none of the C17 ones are the way Oloro is.

This just isn't true. If you haven't played against an Ur-Dragon deck that's been retooled to actually use the Ur-Dragon, you frankly have no idea how much more pants-shittingly terrifying it is as a fielded command than an anthem. The same goes for Edgar Markov and, to an admittedly lesser extent, Arahbo.

The only 2017 Commander that doesn't even want to be cast is Inala, and that's just because Inala is rubbish in general.

Right. Getting a 1-mana discount on dragons is okay and all, but drawing tons of cards and then playing big guys completely for free is on a whole other level. Similarly, Edgar's in-play ability develops your board much harder than the token-making does.

 

[Lucario]

It's not worse, the C17 commanders aren't anything like the problem with Oloro (or Derevi for that matter.) Oloro literally just gives you a free resource every turn as long as he's around, there's absolutely no way to deal with it for the other players.

The Eminence commanders all rely on playing tribe creatures. Three of the four only have an effect at the actual time you cast a creature from the tribe, so if your hand is empty or you're mana-screwed or whatever they do nothing. Arahbo's the closest to the Oloro style here and even then he does nothing unless you have a Cat you're going to attack with this turn.

I can't speak to whether any of this is broken in 1:1 because 1:1 is a dumb format -- like, not that people shouldn't play it if it's fun, but by its very conception it's going to only ever work with an extraordinarily aggrressive banlist policy.

I don't know. After some practice games, Inalla is seeming like the strongest effect from the command zone ever, maybe second after Derevi. Being able to get 1 mana clones of the tribe known best for ETB effects is ridiculous.

Add in the Apprentice Necromancer combos she enables, and I'd argue that her ability is straight-up broken in both 1v1 and multiplayer.

She's better than most commanders without even needing to be cast, and you can't interact with her at all. I think it's fair to call that bullshit.

 

[rac]

i went to my lgs to see if maybe they were doing an open house but nope
i was thinking about getting into edh since thats what it looked like they play there but im p sure its mainly a place for fighting games

guess imma just wait for arena hopefully i can get in it early

 

[Justin]

Pre-PreRelease is starting now
https://www.twitch.tv/loadingreadyrun

 

[Lucario]

LRR Unstable pre-prerelease with Mark Rosewater on December 9th! It's a draft, even.

 

[Farside]

My home is still without power and internet due to Irma and I'm displaced to a city that has no Magic stores. I missed last night/going to miss tonight's Ixalan Open House... anyone have an extra Walk the Plank promo they could sell me?

I did, however, teach my nephew to play and it looks like he is hooked.

 

[Imperfected]

LRR Unstable pre-prerelease with Mark Rosewater on December 9th! It's a draft, even.

I would have completely forgotten about this, thanks.

I assume I missed Cam building a full control deck already.

 

[Santiako]

I would have completely forgotten about this, thanks.

I assume I missed Cam building a full control deck already.

They showed Jeremy Noell building his deck. He built RG Dinos with a ridiculous amount of removal.

 

[Imperfected]

They showed Jeremy Noell building his deck. He built RG Dinos with a ridiculous amount of removal.

I see an Island and a Swamp already. I know where this is going.

 

[Santiako]

Noah Bradley casually signing the illusion token with his art when it came into play lol

 

[Ashodin]

Noah Bradley casually signing the illusion token with his art when it came into play lol

hahahaha it strikes home

 

[Imperfected]

I hadn't really thought about it, but the necessary rules text for Treasure tokens being on the card that generates them makes it an awkward read in-play when a card generates multiple Treasure.

 

[Lucario]

Just got an ebay "item not as described" report on a pack of cards because someone didn't like their pulls.

I really, really need to get my seller level up on tcgplayer so I can stop dealing with this shit.

 

[Poppy]

Just got an ebay "item not as described" report on a pack of cards because someone didn't like their pulls.

I really, really need to get my seller level up on tcgplayer so I can stop dealing with this shit.

its like how if you read amazon reviews of any tcg product about half of them are people saying that its clearly been mapped

people dum

 

[kirblar]

its like how if you read amazon reviews of any tcg product about half of them are people saying that its clearly been mapped

people dum

Amazon preorders not being up for Ixalan singles is weird- did Amazon kill them?

 

[Ashodin]

after last night's testing familien I went back to the drawing board and removed turrible legendaries

Sanctum Seeker is good shit

 

[Imperfected]

He doesn't even find sanctums, though.

 

[Santiako]

Wizards should really adapt this card reader stuff that LRR have set up for their GP/PT coverage.

 

[Justin]

Wizards should really adapt this card reader stuff that LRR have set up for their GP/PT coverage.

I've always thought it was crazy how much more advanced their amaturer setup is over Wizards.

 

[Yeef]

There's a few issues with that. The first being, where do you read cards from? In a normal match, there are cards all over the table. Forcing the players to play their cards to a small area of the table for the sake of the viewing audience seems like a pretty big hassle on the player's end.

Another issue is lighting. You need the right angle and the right sleeves to ensure that they camera picks up the card. LRR doesn't have an issue because it's a relatively small set up.

There's also load times; the more possible cards to consider, the longer cards actually take to pop up. In the Pre-Prereleases, they narrow the lookup to just cards in the current set(s) for the limited format. It might still be okay for something like Standard, but for older formats like Modern and Legacy, it could be a problem. I suppose they could narrow down the search to just cards in the player's decklists as a work-around.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

There's a few issues with that. The first being, where do you read cards from? In a normal match, there are cards all over the table. Forcing the players to play their cards to a small area of the table for the sake of the viewing audience seems like a pretty big hassle on the player's end.

Another issue is lighting. You need the right angle and the right sleeves to ensure that they camera picks up the card. LRR doesn't have an issue because it's a relatively small set up.

There's also load times; the more possible cards to consider, the longer cards actually take to pop up. In the Pre-Prereleases, they narrow the lookup to just cards in the current set(s) for the limited format. It might still be okay for something like Standard, but for older formats like Modern and Legacy, it could be a problem. I suppose they could narrow down the search to just cards in the player's decklists as a work-around.

That's easy to do. Make sanctioned cards, i.e. readable, a necessity and install a table reader a la pro poker.

 

[Violet_0]

Ashodin, it seems like you're desperately trying to build a vampire tribal deck with, frankly, just not that great cards. SOI/AKH zombies would have torn that deck apart, the new vampires have nothing quite like Colossus, Cryptbreaker, Dark Salvation, Dread Wanderer, Liliana's Mastery. That's the power level of cards you need to make a viable standard deck

I don't know. After some practice games, Inalla is seeming like the strongest effect from the command zone ever, maybe second after Derevi. Being able to get 1 mana clones of the tribe known best for ETB effects is ridiculous.

Add in the Apprentice Necromancer combos she enables, and I'd argue that her ability is straight-up broken in both 1v1 and multiplayer.

She's better than most commanders without even needing to be cast, and you can't interact with her at all. I think it's fair to call that bullshit.

I'd say wizards are best known for the Magus line, which require you to tap and sac your creatures - which works just perfectly fine for hasted, temporary token copies

copying your creatures is way above what the the other commanders offer from the command zone, I agree. Wizards just isn't a particularly well-supported tribe, but we got a few more Magi recently and they're generally pretty powerful. Oh, and some new Ork pirate wizards, which is a thing now. I'm kind of tempted to make something with the Inalla deck

 

[Boogiepop]

Oh hey, the Open House thing was pretty nice. Not bad. Just did two games with my one friend, but the decks were a bit more interesting than I expected. Like, I was expecting 100% pure vanilla monster jank. But it actually made for a decent little bit of fun.

And then I made it a more expensive day by spending like $35 on singles for trying out in the Cat Commander. Admittedly I can at least justify that a lot of the stuff I got is good in a generic enough sense that I could justify using them in future Commander stuff if need be, and Commander is at least like, once you have the card, you have the card rather than needing multiples, and I got a fair enough number of cards... But it still feels dirty spending so much on cards. Which I guess is at least good in that it means I'm not falling prey to the temptation of going fully off the deep end into sinking money, which is the thing I refuse to do ever again. Especially since I'm largely just doing casual with a group.

 

[Imperfected]

The problem with Wizards as a "tribe" is that most of the well-designed Wizard cards are actually "instants/sorceries matter" cards like the Izzet or Snapcaster, so what you actually want is Instant/Sorceries guest-starring Wizards.

Fortunately, WotC included a Commander that can do that named Kess.

 

[Violet_0]

Fortunately, WotC included a Commander that can do that named Kess.

I didn't know about this card, seems pretty good. The rebound guy from the dragons deck is even better, but W/U isn't nearly as good as Grixis for spells

 

[Ashodin]

it seems like you're desperately trying to build a vampire tribal deck with, frankly, just not that great card. SOI/AKH zombies would have torn that deck apart, the new vampires have nothing quite like Colossus, Cryptbreaker, Dark Salvation, Dread Wanderer, Liliana's Mastery. That's the power level of cards you need to make a viable standard deck

well thanks but that's not the type of commentary I wanted on the deck, trying to put together the best I can.

I still think I want Gifted Aetherborn, but double black seems rough

Also I might want to run Shefet Dunes for the +1/+1 bonus... hmm

 

[HK-47]

Will we get the enemy check lands in Rivals?

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

after last night's testing familien I went back to the drawing board and removed turrible legendaries

Sanctum Seeker is good shit

Why are you dead set on anointed procession? There's some incidental token producer but none of them particular great and you can run much more powerful stuff depending on what direction you go in instead.

I'm seeing a weenie deck that wants to do something cute instead of ending the game.

 

[Santiako]

4 Dusk is way too many, Anointed Procession has no place in that deck, Costly plunder seems bad.

Inspired Cleric, Gifted Aetherborn and Yaheeni are the best vampires in standard and you're playing none of those :/

 

[Firemind]

So does Ixalan have cheap land destruction? Because these flip lands, yeesh.

 

[Supast4r]

4 Dusk is way too many, Anointed Procession has no place in that deck, Costly plunder seems bad.

Inspired Cleric, Gifted Aetherborn and Yaheeni are the best vampires in standard and you're playing none of those :/

Is he looking for high level play? I always thought that he loved playing whacky stuff than wanting to compete like saffron does

 

[Tunoku]

So does Ixalan have cheap land destruction? Because these flip lands, yeesh.

It's not quite as efficient as Quarter, but still great imo:

 

[Firemind]

Each player?

That's not half bad actually.

 

[Tunoku]

Yeah, way better than Tec Edge!

 

[Ashodin]

Each player?

That's not half bad actually.

It's great with Ramunap Excavator

and guys I'm looking for a mix of cute + power

my meta is strong but it's not PPTQ or PTQ level play

I'm wondering if I can do Bontu + Hidden Stockpile lifeloss shenanigans.

Hmm, if I really didn't want to run Anointed Procession, I could run Oketra's Monument or Bontu's...

 

[SigmasonicX]

Who cares about that uncommon land, when you have these?

 

[Santiako]

And, most importantly

 

[Ashodin]

And, most importantly

POW

 

[SigmasonicX]

And, most importantly

TFW your opponent has no creatures or planeswalkers, but you need to use that to destroy their red land pinger, sacrificing all of your creatures in the process.

 

[divisionbyzorro]

Star of Extinction is one of my favorite designs in a long time.

I tell you what would make it better: if it had no mana cost, but had Suspend (e.g., a Shivan Meteor with the extinction effect).

Every time I sit down to rework my cube, I stare long and hard at Shivan Meteor and end up talking myself out of it. But...man that card is so cool.

 

[Ashodin]

Suspend with that would hav ebeen amazing. Suspend 6.

 

[SigmasonicX]

New Horizons art confirmed to be inspired by The Land Before Time, in the Pre-PreRelease.

 

[Firemind]

But Land Before Time starred infant dinosaurs

 

[Bonethug]

Been testing UW Approach with Ixalan

Surprised by the lack of Mono Red. Been beating RG Dinos, but losing to UB Pirates and UW God-Pharaoh's Gift.
The downside on Settle the Wreckage has not really proven to be an issue.
Forsake and Crook are recent additions to the board to combat GPG.
I also lost to a crazy UW control deck running Thaumatic Compass, Primal Amulet, Draw 7, Spell Swindle and Kefnet.

I miss Sphinx of the Final Word.

 

[kirblar]

But Land Before Time starred infant dinosaurs

This is a reference to the ending.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Been testing UW Approach with Ixalan

Surprised by the lack of Mono Red. Been beating RG Dinos, but losing to UB Pirates and UW God-Pharaoh's Gift.
The downside on Settle the Wreckage has not really proven to be an issue.
Forsake and Crook are recent additions to the board to combat GPG.
I also lost to a crazy UW control deck running Thaumatic Compass, Primal Amulet, Draw 7, Spell Swindle and Kefnet.

I miss Sphinx of the Final Word.

why would anyone test a deck that only improved?