You act as if every hate group is the same when lots of them use nazi symbols and imagery. It's arbitrarily defined imo when everyone in this thread is simply calling them nazis as if they are aspiring SS members ready to pick the fight back up. I think there is more nuance than that. I think it's a means to justify violence by generalizing them as something people think is there inherent right to destroy as a member of the allies.
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Armband-wearing Nazi roams Seattle instigating, gets KOed, removes armband and leaves
- Thread starter Eylos
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You act as if every hate group is the same when lots of them use nazi symbols and imagery. It's arbitrarily defined imo when everyone in this thread is simply calling them nazis as if they are aspiring SS members ready to pick the fight back up. I think there is more nuance than that. I think it's a means to justify violence by generalizing them as something people think is there inherent right to destroy as a member of the allies.
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
Nope you're not doing this.
You are seriously doing this?!
You are seriously telling us not to generalise hate groups using nazi symbols?
B-but they're people too!
Can you go into more detail about the nuanced differences between these hate groups using Nazi symbology? Maybe some examples?
Username1198
Member
Really? Reaaaaaaaaly?
Impeccable
Member
The nuances of the Swastika.
Vigilant Walrus
Member
How does that make any sense at all?
You engage in hypothetical concerns all the fucking time. The whole reason for justification for violence is based on a hypothetical concern.
You cannot get argument of the ground if the person you are talking to, want engage in what has not come to pass.
I get the feeling we're being trolled.Nope you're not doing this.
You are seriously doing this?!
You are seriously telling us not to generalise hate groups using nazi symbols?
Oh my god
Nope you're not doing this.
You are seriously doing this?!
You are seriously telling us not to generalise hate groups using nazi symbols?
Clearly, explicitly and unambiguously.
Because if we hunt the Nazis, what's to stop us from hunting the less blatant white supremacists?
That's what the slippery slope ultimately is: white people's fear of retribution for being comfortable with white supremacy for so damn long. If they come for the Nazis, they might come for the cops, then they might come for me
probably because I've been complicit in racism as well.
LucidMomentum
Member
Typically when they start wearing Nazi themed accessories is when I stop caring for nuance.
Sorry, not sorry.
MHWilliams
Member
Of course they can be helped, but that requires an intense amount of 1-on-1 effort for a return that it quite low on the grand scale of things. And in many cases, it likely won't work. There are various ways to stem the tide that are far more useful, notably legislation against actions based in those philosophies and turning a general blind eye to Nazism as just another opinion. Unfortunately, given the current government, we are essentially moving in the other direction, with Nazism being given more cover and lateral movement.
If you wish to rehabilitate a Nazi, by all means. There is a probably a Nazi chapter within your current state as we speak, and I urge you to put forth the effort with great speed to stop the spread of Nazism. That offers something useful to the situation.
The others in the thread believe that one of the ways you stop the spread of something like Nazism is removing the ideas of support and safety. For example, were you a free speech absolutist, you'd think that removing Nazis from a forum would be a problem, but as a recent research paper noted, de-platforming on Reddit actually lowered hateful commentary as a whole, because then new elements can not engage.
For a long time, we were kept from the wide spread of these ideologies because they were held by the opposing forces in World War II, who took them to their logical conclusion. Given a full illustration of what the philosophy unchecked leads to, America as a whole pretty much shut them down. (And I assure you, some punches were probably thrown.) It's only recently, given some the lax policing of certain internet communities - something that's beginning to change - that these groups have risen in power and visibility. We've removed the stigma of Nazism, something that continues when you minimize it as just another viewpoint.
There are groups like Life After Hate and ExitUSA that handle Nazis in the manner some would like. I applaud their work, especially the work of former neo-Nazis to help their brethren rehabilitate. There are many various ways to tackle a problem. Theirs is a good one. It is not the only one.
De-platforming removes support, while others believe the threat of punching removes safety. The latter has been borne out in certain situations, as Nazi groups have cancelled rallies and whatnot. Essentially, in both cases, you're removing rights and privileges to show that a certain philosophy has no place in common society. I understand disliking that other method, but one cannot dismiss that it has in some cases worked to stem the issue within the vector that those folks care about. (There's a whole idea of "Violence is never the answer", but that's a whole other discussion.)
At the same time, I'm not particularly worried about an open Nazi being punched. Again, that's a local legal matter and it'll be handled as such. I don't worry about that anymore than one man punching another because he said something to his family member or spouse. I wouldn't, but I can understand why it happened and what the punch was meant to convey.
Temeculan3000
Member
I'm just pointing out how ridiculous the Nazi children argument is. Obviously no-one is promoting the punching of little kids who are dressed up in Nazi regalia by their parents. But I guess someone has to spell it out.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
How is it a slippery slope? What slope are you talking about? Why do people immediately remove the relevant context from the action to pursue a weak "what if" that inevitably and unfairly levels the playing field so any vague, gauzy ideology is equal to any otherincluding NAZI ideologies?
A guy yelling racist bullshit in public while wearing a Nazi armband got noticed on social media in Seattle. He's in public. Twitter is public. Reddit is public. Facebook is public. Insta is public. They're social media networs being used by people in a major metropolitan area. News traveled via that network like it would in any other situation. This Nazi got knocked out by a single guy, and it's not even known whether the guy who hit him was following along on social media or had even learned of the Nazis existence via the "mob" you're describing.
Nazi's aren't "someones." They're not "any group." They don't just "happen to believe something differently." They're fucking genocidal. You get that, right? They're genocidal. That is what they believe in.
You're worried that people in public, using public social media networks to alert others to a NAZI IN THEIR MIDST are walking a dangerous line?
How do you arrive there? What series of steps brings you to that point?
When you arrive at the one where your misplaced empathy places you in the leather jacket of this Nazi dipshit, stop, retrace your steps, and see if you can find a way forward that doesn't include that step.
This thread has become even more hilarious.
SummitAve is pulling out all the stops on his Nazi sympathizing!
Palette Swap
Member
They could have used nuanced and apologetic guys like you in 1946 at Nuremberg.
Yeah I'm sure the dude wearing that armband prefers to keep to himself and not leave too much of an impression when he goes out.
MagnaderAlpha
Member
Ah, the "take it in the ass and like it" approach. As I've said before, POC don't have the privilege to say shit like that.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
I feel like a dude could literally get facial reconstruction surgery to look exactly like hitler, dye his hair to that man's color, tattoo a swastika on his forehead, and talk about euthanizing all the minorities while dressed in an authentic WW2 nazi uniform, and some people would still be like "yea but are they REALLY nazis."
I understand that, but is it not more difficult to fight something, especially without violence, if you pay no attention to nuance? It's easier to be violent when you generalize which is why I brought up the lil nazi example...
Saint of Killers
Member
Another alternative link if one in OP goes down: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDyHId0LNRQ
I'll be honest, I felt sorry for the fucker when that punch landed. But there's no doubting he deserved to be lamped. Fuck, he probably deserved a shoeing whilst laid out and so can count himself lucky.
I'll be honest, I felt sorry for the fucker when that punch landed. But there's no doubting he deserved to be lamped. Fuck, he probably deserved a shoeing whilst laid out and so can count himself lucky.
theignoramus
Member
Some Nazis are just "misunderstood" and misguided people, right?
Mr. Giggles
Member
It's time to stop posting.
So what you are saying is that I can't call a person wearing Nazis symbols and iconography in public, and seemingly proud of it, a Nazis?
Kill Your Masters
Member
#notallnazis
It's about time for the usual "whatever, there's no rational arguing with you guys and your witch hunts. i'm out"
EDIT: BOOM. taken out before they managed to finish the troll cycle. *claps*
MightyHedgehog
Member
That was a damn solid KO. If you go out playing Nazi, prepare to lose. Not a single tear should be shed.
I agree that Nazi views are reprehensible and that the guy probably deserved to get punched, but this sort of vigilante behavior makes me uneasy. It's just going to enable more vigilantism, and escalate the rate and severity of these attacks.
These guys do deserve to be told to shut the fuck up, and they deserve to be locked up if they attack people. But these things should be done within the confines of the law. Going around the law to fight against Nazis is not the way to do it.
You bet that Nazis right now are using this incident to justify more violence. That'll lead more people to seek violent confrontations against Nazis. On and on and on.
These guys do deserve to be told to shut the fuck up, and they deserve to be locked up if they attack people. But these things should be done within the confines of the law. Going around the law to fight against Nazis is not the way to do it.
You bet that Nazis right now are using this incident to justify more violence. That'll lead more people to seek violent confrontations against Nazis. On and on and on.
Dubbedinenglish
Banned
What if we got all angry at someone wearing a Swastika and turns out he was just a white supremacist?!? We need to be more careful!
charlequin
Banned
I don't know why people keep talking about this as if the point is converting people. It's not. The point of committing violence on people who wear Nazi regalia in public is to make them afraid of showing up with their fascist outfits, to be afraid to share their evil ideas with people, to be afraid to have it be known that they're white supremacists because of what could happen to them.
Post of the year right here.
Fucking incredible.
Aarglefarg
Member
"It's going to be a maze."
sloppyjoe_gamer
Gold Member
I suggest you take a deep breath, and re-read my first sentence where i said that i don't feel bad that a Nazi who was harassing people got clocked by someone.
It's a slippery slope because if we as a society become ok with the practice of a group following and tracking someone on social media to plan and attack that person, then it sets a precedence that this is ok for any reason. Nazis are dirtbags and deserve all that they get, but doing it this way i think raises alot of questions.
I have ZERO issue with this whole thing if he was saying shit to a random person not associated with the Twitter group and he got clocked.
MontyBrown
Banned
Should be legal to shoot people like that. Slug straight to the brain. Cops shouldn't even question it, just take the body to the nearest ditch and let it rot.
hurricanes
Member
Maybe SummitAve is worried we may unfairly judge someone wearing these shirts?
Even without the association of Nazi(in a alternative world), these Ts are still offensively ugly and therefore would be judged.
It's all fun and games until you realize the law and nearly the whole of your government are both complicit and on some levels condoning of white supremacy.
People are going to protect their own streets when the systems fail them. If you have a problem with Nazis being hunted down, maybe you should turn your unease to a government that fails to hunt them down "the right way."
KoopaTheCasual
Junior Member
This makes me so happy :')
And for the chucklefuck in here literally defending wearing nazi memorabilia, I wonder how much time and effort you spent standing up against the media's unfair representation of black victims of cops, as "no angel"?
I'm gonna guess you didn't waste your breath.
How About No
Member
Trump: I don't know what group you're talking about. You wouldn't want me to condemn a group that I know nothing about. ... If you would send me a list of the groups, I will do research on them and certainly I would disavow them if I thought there was something wrong.
Tapper: The Ku Klux Klan?
Trump: You may have groups in there that are totally fine and it would be very unfair. So give me a list of the groups and I'll let you know.
Tapper: I'm just talking about David Duke and the Ku Klux Klan here.
Eventually all nazis advertising their brand in public will be punched out. Doesn't seem too bad to me.
What did he mean by this?
Member
The Nazi doctrine already advocates for violent confrontation. They didnt need to justify it before, what changed with 1 guy getting punched
FinalStageBoss
Banned
Did boogie get a new account here?
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Exactly, like where was he even going and what distinction could've possibly have been made there between hate groups, if a group of people fall under the definition of the term hate group and generally have the same goals, what's the point of trying to point out the nuance between, "hey we just wanna kill black people" and "hey we'd be down with that but also we should kill the muslims."?
Secondly, how often does a dude wearing nazi symbols and harassing minorities get falsely accused of being a nazi?
If I shoot someone invading my home, it sets a precedent that shooting babies is okay.
Fantastapotamus
Wrong about commas, wrong about everything
Also to show them that people won't accept them.
Just approaching them and being all like "I don't approve of your ideas but I respect your right to express them" is not doing that.
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