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[Figboy79]

Yeah, I heard about this after the bullshit with PewDie Pie happened.

Fucking shameful. And the gaming industry wonders why it has an image issue. So much of the community is a bunch of toxic, entitled man children.

Disappointing, but not surprising.

 

[Gotdatmoney]

It's amazing how slippery slope allows "if we dont let PDP normalize calling someone a fucking nigger, they may suppress opinions on our games".

I see you.

 

[cripterion]

Games were a mistake.

YouTube was definitely a mistake. Take that shit off along with Twitter, Facebook and the likes and the world would be a better place.

 

[bananafactory]

User reviews were a mistake

 

[chaos789]

Youtube the home of right wing conspiracy theorists, flat earthers , and racists/bigots everywhere. I will never understand how in the hell some guy who streams games has developed a cult following or anyone on youtube for that matter.

 

[Brinbe]

It's always juniors/alt accounts trying to rationalize/forgive this shit. Fuck outta here. Pls ban that filth

 

[7DollarHagane]

Yeah, I heard about this after the bullshit with PewDie Pie happened.

Fucking shameful. And the gaming industry wonders why it has an image issue. So much of the community is a bunch of toxic, entitled man children.

Disappointing, but not surprising.

I don't think they are numerous, but they are loud and obnoxious.

There are about 700k owners of fire watch on steam. These negative reviews make up a tiny fraction of that number and many of them are people using alt accounts to bomb the reviews. These idiots are a tiny majority of the good, diverse, and mature people who enjoy games these days.

Don't confuse volume of voice with presence.

 

[Ted]

I admire Campo Santo for taking a stand. Nice to see developers who actually do a give a shit beyond their bottom line.

It's a real Shame that Brendan Greene and Bluehole haven't got the same attitude. They should ban this guy from PUBG and set an example that racist language simply isn't acceptable no matter how big and mainstream the user in question is.

For reference:

TL;DR—Play Fair And Respect Other Players.
We ask you to follow these Rules of Conduct while playing PLAYERUNKNOWN'S BATTLEGROUNDS and participating on our platforms. Please note, these may change from time to time, so it's worth checking back periodically.

Ignorance of the rules does not excuse a violation of them. Violations may result in a temporary suspension or a permanent ban.

Do not use any discriminatory language, including but not limited to any language regarding ethnicity, nationality, race, gender, religion, sexual preference or personal beliefs.

Do not use extremely foul language, including but not limited to excessive profanity or language that is graphically sexual, grotesque, or violent.

Do not make threats of real-world violence or other intended harm to other players or our employees.

Do not harass, stalk, or purposely do things to make someone else feel uncomfortable or threatened.

Do not share personal information about yourself or other individuals.

Do not engage in, request, arrange, or offer illegal activities or materials.

Do not impersonate other individuals.

Do not spam, be it in text or voip.

Do not cheat: do not use third party programs, macros, client-side hacks, edited game files or anything else that may give you an unfair advantage in the game. This includes promoting or posting links to websites that provide or promote cheats or hacks.

Do not team: teaming is defined as two or more players in the same match working together in a larger group than is intended for the selected game mode.

Do not team kill: there is no excuse for non-accidental team kills. If your teammate is breaking these rules, report them to us instead.

Do not stream snipe: this is a form of cheating and you will be banned if you do it.

Do not exploit bugs or glitches: If you find a bug or a glitch in the game that provides an unfair advantage, let us know about it instead of using the exploit for your own benefit.

Do not share your account: your account is for your use and your use alone. Do not grant access to your account to anyone else, and do not access anyone else's account, even with their permission.

These rules are neither final nor exhaustive - we reserve the right to suspend disruptive users even if their behaviour doesn’t fall under any of the above rules directly. Be nice, play fair and respect others and yourself.

 

[Dyson Industries]

Both sides went too far, the "false" DMCA claims and hate reviews over non-game related stuff shouldn't take place. Forcing only one side to "surrender" would be unfair imo.

"both sides"

 

[7DollarHagane]

It's amazing how slippery slope allows "if we dont let PDP normalize calling someone a fucking nigger, they may suppress opinions on our games".

I see you.

So then are all other devs that have not dmca claimed his let's plays enabling racial slurs? What about bluehole not banning him from the game he used it in?

I actually am pretty shocked they haven't banned him yet. I was calling for it when it happened.

 

[GetLucky]

I already suggested this last week in another thread, but at this point GAF, some game developers and other liberal sources need to start organizing review bombings of our own. Valve is not interested in doing anything about these constant alt-right attacks (this happened previously on AC Origins Steam forum) so it's up for the left wing to take action. A counter-movement is required.

Post left-wing troll reviews, something like "10/10 trumptards get triggered" and send the lefty mob to mass upvote that as "helpful" and mass downvote all the alt-righters.

See, that's the thing. In their current form, the left and right are in different places. The right wing, as evidenced by this very incident, is run by anger and hate. And as we've seen many times, it's much easier to organize by hate than it is to organize by respect and caring. It's just the nature of the beast.

The passion of angry youths exceeds that caring people who have more things to worry about than just blind hatred.

 

[hawk2025]

It's possible to think pdp is trash and also think that campo Santo did the wrong thing, you know. Publishers can be legally in the right for their use of dmca but still cause frustration among consumers.

It shouldn't be assumed that anyone who isn't 100% on board with campo Santo's actions is also in support of PDP or a racist.

I thoroughly disagree.

If someone's reaction to a DMCA takedown by a small independent developer video, following a blatant display of racism, is to join a purposeful misinformation campaign against said developer...

This person is racist. Yes, racist.

 

[Rellik]

YouTube was definitely a mistake. Take that shit off along with Twitter, Facebook and the likes and the world would be a better place.

May as well remove NeoGAF too then.

 

[Gotdatmoney]

So then are all other devs that have not dmca claimed his let's plays enabling racial slurs? What about bluehole not banning him from the game he used it in?

I actually am pretty shocked they haven't banned him yet. I was calling for it when it happened.

I don't understand why any of that would be slippery slope?

Yes if they do nothing he will continue to do what he always does. Isn't that just logic? Yes they are enabling him. No they don't have a responsibility to stop enabling him.

 

[7DollarHagane]

I thoroughly disagree.

If someone's reaction to a DMCA takedown by a small independent developer video, following a blatant display of racism, is to join a purposeful misinformation campaign against said developer...

This person is racist. Yes, racist.

I didn't say "join the misinformation campaign" I said disagree with campo santo. The giant bomb guys said they understood why they did it but didn't really agree with the action they took. Are they racists now too?

If you're involved in review bombing yes you're probably a horrible racist internet troll.

 

[nkarafo]

May as well remove NeoGAF too then.

Just shut down the Internet, to be sure.

 

[7DollarHagane]

I don't understand why any of that would be slippery slope?

Yes if they do nothing he will continue to do what he always does. Isn't that just logic?

I'm saying if what campo santo did was the right reaction, why isn't there pressure on other developers that he's done let's plays on to follow suit? Why just firewatch? Shouldn't he be not allowed to stream any game?

 

[Gotdatmoney]

I'm saying if what campo santo did was the right reaction, why isn't there pressure on other developers that he's done let's plays on to follow suit? Why just firewatch? Shouldn't he be not allowed to stream any game?

What does that have to do with slippery slope? All that says is the gaming industry is cool with racism. Since when is that news?

 

[hawk2025]

I didn't say "join the misinformation campaign" I said disagree with campo santo. The giant bomb guys said they understood why they did it but didn't really agree with the action they took. Are they racists now too?

If you're involved in review bombing yes you're probably a horrible racist internet troll.

No, no, sorry if that wasn't clear. Of course there's space to discuss what the best course of action is and whether a DMCA was it. I was indeed talking about the "reviewers" here.

That said, an absolutely crucial point is what different people choose to FOCUS on. The disagreement with Campo Santo is usually pre-ambled by an excuse for PDP to varying degrees: It frames the DMCA as an action without context.

 

[MarauderShields]

Okay so my comment had about the most foreseeable outcome imagineable.

Here is the thing though:

1. Pewdiepie isn't a racist. He is an idiot. There's a stark difference, but I agree that his abuse of the n-word deserves consequence. You may consider him racist all you want, but then you're giving the word the power that you ultimately despise; by that logic, anyone who is called the n-word should be considered all that goes with it historically, and that's what we're against right? It isn't rational by any means. If all you see in Pewdiepie is a racist, there's no point in a discussion. His liberal use of the word is more likely a result of a poiseneous environment and a background where he lived in a country that doesn't share the same history and culture as the USA. There for his understanding of the word may be limited. But he is a grown man, and that's why I think he still deserves the consequence.

2: I wasn't being apologetic on Pewdiepies behalf. What does he need me for?! I was saying that this review-bombing is a result of a careless act. This notion that all done with good intend frees you from consequence is self-centered. It's the same logic that criminals work by. Firewatch and it's developers DO NOT DESERVE THIS, but there were more reasonable ways to get their message across, which might have prevented something like this in the first place, and I hope it reverses for their sake, because as you're pointing out: Pewdiepie has a fanbase that defends him. Not because he is a racist, but because his content entertains them.

Now I am leaving this discussion. I see the outcome and I am not interested in offending, because I won't benefit. I am not on GAF for politics either way.

They may not be defending because he's a racist but they are defending a racist and so are you.

 

[Roubjon]

I'm saying if what campo santo did was the right reaction, why isn't there pressure on other developers that he's done let's plays on to follow suit? Why just firewatch? Shouldn't he be not allowed to stream any game?

I wish every developer and publisher would follow suit. I know I would with my own games if he ever were to play them. That fucker isn't getting any money from my work.

 

[Aaron D.]

I already suggested this last week in another thread, but at this point GAF, some game developers and other liberal sources need to start organizing review bombings of our own. Valve is not interested in doing anything about these constant alt-right attacks (this happened previously on AC Origins Steam forum) so it's up for the left wing to take action. A counter-movement is required.

Post left-wing troll reviews, something like "10/10 trumptards get triggered" and send the lefty mob to mass upvote that as "helpful" and mass downvote all the alt-righters.

This is only perpetuating poor behavior.

It will solve nothing.

Unless you think normalizing this regressive nonsense is a good thing.

 

[samn]

Okay so my comment had about the most foreseeable outcome imagineable.

Here is the thing though:

1. Pewdiepie isn't a racist. He is an idiot. There's a stark difference, but I agree that his abuse of the n-word deserves consequence. You may consider him racist all you want, but then you're giving the word the power that you ultimately despise; by that logic, anyone who is called the n-word should be considered all that goes with it historically, and that's what we're against right? It isn't rational by any means. If all you see in Pewdiepie is a racist, there's no point in a discussion. His liberal use of the word is more likely a result of a poiseneous environment and a background where he lived in a country that doesn't share the same history and culture as the USA. There for his understanding of the word may be limited. But he is a grown man, and that's why I think he still deserves the consequence.

2: I wasn't being apologetic on Pewdiepies behalf. What does he need me for?! I was saying that this review-bombing is a result of a careless act. This notion that all done with good intend frees you from consequence is self-centered. It's the same logic that criminals work by. Firewatch and it's developers DO NOT DESERVE THIS, but there were more reasonable ways to get their message across, which might have prevented something like this in the first place, and I hope it reverses for their sake, because as you're pointing out: Pewdiepie has a fanbase that defends him. Not because he is a racist, but because his content entertains them.

Now I am leaving this discussion. I see the outcome and I am not interested in offending, because I won't benefit. I am not on GAF for politics either way.

The first point made less and less sense as it went on. 'If people that say the n word are always racists then people who are called the n word are everything the n word means.' WHAT?

 

[Crosseyes]

I'm saying if what campo santo did was the right reaction, why isn't there pressure on other developers that he's done let's plays on to follow suit? Why just firewatch? Shouldn't he be not allowed to stream any game?

Ideally yes his career and livelyhood should be eradicated, and there sure is hell pressure from more moral places like GAF to convince developers to take more stands like Campo Santo is.

Gaming companies have to be more like CS and start suppressing racists by any means necessary otherwise this sickness within the gaming community and industry will never be purged and will keep growing worse like it has since Gamergate.

 

[TheJollyCorner]

Firewatch is a lovely game.
I hope those of you jumping in for the first time enjoy it.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

It's possible to think pdp is trash and also think that campo Santo did the wrong thing, you know. Publishers can be legally in the right for their use of dmca but still cause frustration among consumers.

It shouldn't be assumed that anyone who isn't 100% on board with campo Santo's actions is also in support of PDP or a racist.

First of all, Campo Santo didn't do anything wrong.

But even if you want to argue that they did, review-bombing as retaliation is not OK, and going out of your way to participate in a mass effort to review-bomb + downvote positive reviews and upvote negative reviews means you are doing more than just disagreeing with Campo Santo's DMCA action; you're simply being a petty piece of shit.

The first point made less and less sense as it went on. 'If people that say the n word are always racists then people who are called the n word are everything the n word means.' WHAT?

Yup, absolute garbage post.

 

[Hamster Plugin]

This is only perpetuating poor behavior.

It will solve nothing.

Unless you think normalizing this regressive nonsense is a good thing.

It has already been normalized. Don't pretend that things are otherwise. Poor behavior should be Valve's problem, but at the moment Valve doesn't give a shit.

Turning Steam reviews into a political battleground should be the goal. When the tool is 100% useless, there is no reason for it to exist and Valve might start either moderating it or taking it away. Or if they do nothing, people will just ignore Steam reviews because they became useless. Either way, the people win.

 

[Kaleinc]

The incident involved PUBG and didn't include Firewatch, PUBG team didn't have a problem with the video. So they think it's fine or don't care meaning you can restore justice by review bombing PUBG to send a message. But you won't because PUBG is the best multiplayer game in the universe and you aren't ready to make a tiny sacrifice for the greater good which makes you an indirect pdp supporter.

 

[HK-47]

It has already been normalized. Don't pretend that things are otherwise. Poor behavior should be Valve's problem, but at the moment Valve doesn't give a shit.

Turning Steam reviews into a political battleground should be the goal. When the tool is 100% useless, there is no reason for it to exist and Valve might start either moderating it or taking it away. Or if they do nothing, people will just ignore Steam reviews because they became useless. Either way, the people win.

Valve will never moderate anything because they won't be willing to pay to have moderation. Fuck those guys won't even pay to have real customer service. They will try to either pass the buck to the community, try and automate it or, most likely, ignore the problem because it doesn't impact their business

 

[Gren]

What a bunch of tools.

 

[sonicmj1]

I admire Campo Santo for taking a stand. Nice to see developers who actually do a give a shit beyond their bottom line.

It's a real Shame that Brendan Greene and Bluehole haven't got the same attitude. They should ban this guy from PUBG and set an example that racist language simply isn't acceptable no matter how big and mainstream the user in question is.

For reference:

The incident involved PUBG and didn't include Firewatch, PUBG team didn't have a problem with the video. So they think it's fine or don't care meaning you can restore justice by review bombing PUBG to send a message. But you won't because PUBG is the best multiplayer game in the universe and you aren't ready to make a tiny sacrifice for the greater good which makes you an indirect pdp supporter.

Bluehole doesn't (and shouldn't) ban players based on their activity outside the game. PDP's offensive speech happened in a Discord channel, broadcast over Youtube/Twitch. That's not something they can be expected to monitor or control. The streaming services should be the ones to deal with it.

If he had used the in-game voice chat, that's another story.

 

[Bronetta]

Whats with juniors with a handful of posts who jump into these controversial topics with such zeal and enthusiasm in defending racists like that oliver fella?

 

[Kebiinu]

Okay so my comment had about the most foreseeable outcome imagineable.

Here is the thing though:

1. Pewdiepie isn't a racist. He is an idiot. There's a stark difference, but I agree that his abuse of the n-word deserves consequence. You may consider him racist all you want, but then you're giving the word the power that you ultimately despise; by that logic, anyone who is called the n-word should be considered all that goes with it historically, and that's what we're against right? It isn't rational by any means. If all you see in Pewdiepie is a racist, there's no point in a discussion. His liberal use of the word is more likely a result of a poiseneous environment and a background where he lived in a country that doesn't share the same history and culture as the USA. There for his understanding of the word may be limited. But he is a grown man, and that's why I think he still deserves the consequence.

2: I wasn't being apologetic on Pewdiepies behalf. What does he need me for?! I was saying that this review-bombing is a result of a careless act. This notion that all done with good intend frees you from consequence is self-centered. It's the same logic that criminals work by. Firewatch and it's developers DO NOT DESERVE THIS, but there were more reasonable ways to get their message across, which might have prevented something like this in the first place, and I hope it reverses for their sake, because as you're pointing out: Pewdiepie has a fanbase that defends him. Not because he is a racist, but because his content entertains them.

Now I am leaving this discussion. I see the outcome and I am not interested in offending, because I won't benefit. I am not on GAF for politics either way.

All those words to say, "I'm a racist, who defends other racists."

Lol.

 

[James Scott]

It's amazing how slippery slope allows "if we dont let PDP normalize calling someone a fucking nigger, they may suppress opinions on our games".

I see you.

Yeeep

 

[Mr. Phellps]

Whats with juniors with a handful of posts who jump into these controversial topics with such zeal and enthusiasm in defending racists like that oliver fella?

Throwaway accounts.

 

[Nanashrew]

I know a lot of people don't like crowbcat for reasons but Bethesda probably would love to take this down and make criticism like this not allowed.

https://youtu.be/yvGXCisAaR4

Then why haven't they used DMCA to take it down? Bethesda know the tool is there. They have some of the smartest and most aggressive lawyers in the industry, who have demonstrated countless times their ability to proetect Bethesda's IP. They know they'd be well within their legal rights to do so.

The reason they haven't is because they know it is a bad look to remove bad opinions about your product. Someone using DMCA because they don't want their product associated with a racist will not wake them up to the fact they can take down videos using their IP. It won't make them change their mind and start using it.

There is a huge difference between a Let's Play and a review/criticism of a game and/or company.

 

[Hamster Plugin]

Valve will never moderate anything because they won't be willing to pay to have moderation. Fuck those guys won't even pay to have real customer service. They will try to either pass the buck to the community, try and automate it or, most likely, ignore the problem because it doesn't impact their business

And the purpose of organizing a troll movement to annoy alt-righters and destroy Steam reviews is.... to pass the buck to the community! Stop letting these voices be the only ones heard.

The biggest issue today are people who are against this kind of action because of some dumb "principles" that the alt-righters have abandoned a long time ago. Steam community doesn't work. Get over it. In this case the way to fight fire is with more fire.

 

[Mr. Phellps]

There is a huge difference between a Let's Play and a review/criticism of a game and/or company.

Yes.

The latter is freedom of speech, and removing it would be akin to censoring.
The former, in this case, included saying racist shit on stream, which is not, by the way, being censored by Campo Santo. They just removed all possible association between their game and PDP from his channel.

So it's wildly different.

 

[Gator86]

I thought it was about ethics in video games journalism

Trump is President. No one has to pretend anymore.

 

[Tranqueris]

I guarantee you that PDP has now done more to hurt the Lets Play community with him being the catalyst to getting advertisers to jump off of youtube or force youtube to let them bypass gaming content.

Yep and instead of coming out loudly and saying that PDP's actions do not represent gaming and trying to redirect the fallout onto him, where it belongs, they basically just said, "can we just stop talking about this? It's just a word, racism isn't that big of a deal, both sides! Now we can get some of that advertising money please?"

 

[L Thammy]

At this point, it's impossible to hide from PewDiePie's shit. He's been doing it too damn long. If you're an adult and still a PewDiePie fan, either you

1. are really good at separating the art to the artist,

2. are a blatant bigot, or

3. are completely apathetic to other people, in which case you're still a bigot, you're just not interested enough to assert it.

 

[David___]

Whats with juniors with a handful of posts who jump into these controversial topics with such zeal and enthusiasm in defending racists like that oliver fella?

Too cowardly to post on their main account

 

[senj]

At this point, it's impossible to hide from PewDiePie's shit. He's been doing it too damn long. If you're an adult and still a PewDiePie fan, either you

1. are really good at separating the art to the artist,

2. are a blatant bigot, or

3. are completely apathetic to other people, in which case you're still a bigot, you're just not interested enough to assert it.

I don't even know that #1 is valid. Separating the artist from the art is only a thing when the perceived failings of the artist aren't reflected in the art itself.

PewDiePie keeps bring the racism into what he does. The art itself is displaying his racism.

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

And it's in the Mixed category now on Recent.

Valve needs to fix their review system. They really do jack shit concerning troll reviews. The Report function is a joke. But GOD HELP US IF FREEBIE REVIEWS COUNTED.

At this point, it's impossible to hide from PewDiePie's shit. He's been doing it too damn long. If you're an adult and still a PewDiePie fan, either you

1. are really good at separating the art to the artist,

Nobody can honestly separate art from artist at this level.

 

[Anung]

I hope Jim Sterling looks at this as a potential Jimquistion. I'm interested in hearing his take.

 

[L Thammy]

And it's in the Mixed category now on Recent.

Valve needs to fix their review system. They really do jack shit concerning troll reviews. The Report function is a joke. But GOD HELP US IF FREEBIE REVIEWS COUNTED.

I feel like this is the natural result of a company that wants its customers to do work for them and a community that includes a lot of bitter, hateful assholes lashing out at the world.

Remember when Yooka-Laylee was being hit with the "political" tag because - oh no - Playtonic removed a white supremacist's voice from their game?

 

[Bill R Boggess]

Youtube the home of right wing conspiracy theorists, flat earthers , and racists/bigots everywhere. I will never understand how in the hell some guy who streams games has developed a cult following or anyone on youtube for that matter.

I recall that South Park episode where the boys are shocked to discover that the younger generation would rather watch games being played by shrill, annoying d-bags than play the game themselves.

I’ve been gaming a long time and I simply don’t get the appeal. If you’re going to spend hours staring at a screen without any form of interactivity, why not watch a film or a quality TV show?

Like I said earlier, I’m obviously getting old.

 

[L Thammy]

I recall that South Park episode where the boys are shocked to discover that the younger generation would rather watch games being played by shrill, annoying d-bags than play the game themselves.

I've been gaming a long time and I simply don't get the appeal. If you're going to spend hours staring at a screen without any form of interactivity, why not watch a film or a quality TV show?

Like I said earlier, I'm obviously getting old.

Most of it is founded on cult of personality, I think, but there's also the (less popular) informative style, and there you clearly get some value that you might not from playing yourself. Try out Protonjon's Superman 64 or Researchindicates Jurassic Park Trespasser; if you don't see how it might appeal to someone I don't think you'll ever be able to get it.

 

[Crossing Eden]

1. Pewdiepie isn't a racist. He is an idiot. There's a stark difference, but I agree that his abuse of the n-word deserves consequence.

Yes he is. How many times does this due have to say the n-word casually as a derogatory term when there's an entire dictionary's worth of curse words that don't specifically target PoC and with such liberal use of it for you to understand what racism is? Genuinely how hard is this thought process?

You may consider him racist all you want, but then you're giving the word the power that you ultimately despise; by that logic, anyone who is called the n-word should be considered all that goes with it historically, and that's what we're against right? It isn't rational by any means. If all you see in Pewdiepie is a racist, there's no point in a discussion.

This is "you're the real racist" tier logic. The whole point is that people NEVER forget what happened to slaves and why that word is bad. You can NEVER take away the it's use in history.

His liberal use of the word is more likely a result of a poiseneous environment and a background where he lived in a country that doesn't share the same history and culture as the USA. There for his understanding of the word may be limited. But he is a grown man, and that's why I think he still deserves the consequence.

So what you're saying is that you don't know shit about European culture? If that's the case you should sincerely look up what culture is like in Europe because of the following statements: They understand what the fucking word means. They understand the context, they aren't naive, and neither is he, the use of it is most likely due to pure and simple racism.

Any attempt to deny this is admittance that you don't know jackshit about the word and it's usage in history OR Europe's specific history with racism. And thus have no right to speak about or for them. Just like you have no right to speak at black people about whether or not we should consider this guy racist.

 

[L Thammy]

Do you think the people who say that Europeans don't understand this racism stuff know how black people got to America?