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How is Dragon's Dogma's ranged combat not standard in ARPGs and Souls-likes?

I

Imp the Dimp

Member
The ranged combat in Dragon's Dogma feels tighter than some A-tier shooters out there but hell, I don't even expect games to nail it to this extent. Just let me press L2 to aim, R2 to shoot and possibly have some different skills on the face buttons like x5 Arrows or spread shot or whatever. I'm not a coder but this doesn't sound so hard compared to many other things these games pull off. I remember creating a melee class in DD and ending up pewpewing for the majority of the end game because it felt so goddamn good and it was strong as hell.

Ranged combat in Souls? Shameful. Witcher 3? Crap (anything else but a crossbow in that game?). Nioh? Closer to DD but not quite there. And surely some others games with equally unsatisfying combat in the genre.

In a genre that sure seems to trade a lot of ideas and inspiriations back and forth, this one mechanic didn't make it? Come on. It would improve all these games by a ton.
 
Svejk

Svejk

Member
Question is, why is there no sequel yet??

But yes, shooting combat is practically God tier, along with the melee combat. The hit detection and control in DD is second to none.
 
Safeto20Scroll

Safeto20Scroll

Member
Yep yep, who'd knew traditional controls for shooters would translate well into other genres too.

Really glad to see mon hun adopting this change for their ranged one too. Hopin more for the future!
 
N

Nev

Banned
Ranged in Souls is slow for balance reasons. If you were to put Dragon's Dogma bow gameplay in any Souls game you'd completely break it.
 
V

Vincent Grayson

Member
You're largely talking about games where ranged combat isn't ever meant to be the focus. Melee is definitely what Souls and Nioh are about more than anything else. And Witcher 3 seems to intentionally make the crossbow a last resort type choice. There's rarely a reason to use it outside of knocking things down so you can use melee.
 
I

Imp the Dimp

Member
Charlouie Jonesman said:
I started as a pure fighter, because I don't really like archers in games like this
Click to expand...

Yes, because they're all shit. You would think when a game comes around that absolutely nails this traditionally lacking aspect of ARPGs, that other games would follow up with similar ranged combat styles. It's not like they got anything to lose, can't get much worse than what we got.

Nev said:
Ranged in Souls is slow for balance reasons. If you were to put Dragon's Dogma bow gameplay in any Souls game you'd completely break it.
Click to expand...

I've played and finished all 6 Souls games and this is a poor ass excuse. Balance it then. I honestly wonder if I'm the only Souls veteran out there who isn't hyper-conservative about changes. Having shit mechanics for balance reasons -> so keep them shit instead of balancing them?
 
S

Sesha

Member
Devs aren't as eager to borrow smaller ideas as they should, imo.

Svejk said:
Question is, why is there no sequel yet??

But yes, shooting combat is practically God tier, along with the melee combat. The hit detection and control in DD is second to none.
Click to expand...

Because the original was one of Capcom's biggest titles ever and it only sold 1.3m.
 
H

Hellshy.

Member
Horizon zero dawn has amazing range combat.L2 for aiming R2 for shooting. It has multiple arrow types and a x3 shot . It also has other types of range weapons that when combined makes for a excellent combat experience.
 
E

emag

Member
Imp the Dimp said:
I've played and finished all 6 Souls games and this is a poor ass excuse. Balance it then. I honestly wonder if I'm the only Souls veteran out there who isn't hyper-conservative about changes. Having shit mechanics for balance reasons -> so keep them shit instead of balancing them?
Click to expand...

Remember how all the Souls fans were saying that 60 FPS would ruin Souls back in the De/DS1 days?
 
J

Jimnymebob

Member
I played over 100 hours of Dragon's Dogma, and I never touched a yellow vocation. I never even really tried the enemy climbing mechanic that much.
 
I

Imp the Dimp

Member
Hellshy. said:
Horizon zero dawn has amazing range combat.L2 for aiming R2 for shooting. It has multiple arrow types and a x3 shot . It also has other types of range weapons that when combined makes for a excellent combat experience.
Click to expand...

Yes, I forgot about that. Horizon does a reasonably good job, indeed. I just didn't consider it an ARPG but with how diluted the term is these days, why not actually.
 
Lux R7

Lux R7

Member
Sesha said:
Devs aren't as eager to borrow smaller ideas as they should, imo.



Because the original was one of Capcom's biggest titles ever and it only sold 1.3m.
Click to expand...

That was 2013. Now there are more than 800k owners on steam and there is gog.
 
H

Hellshy.

Member
Imp the Dimp said:
Yes, I forgot about that. Horizon does a reasonably good job, indeed. I just didn't consider it an ARPG but with how diluted the term is these days, why not actually.
Click to expand...

I do agree it's very light on the RPG side of things but the systems are present. It also has a great story. I have not played more than 15 minutes of dragons dogma In a demo b/c I couldn't stand the scream tearing and frame drops on ps3 but maybe I will have to try it on ps4 if the range combat comes anywhere close to horizon.
 
L

Luigiv

Member
Hellshy. said:
I do agree it's very light on the RPG side of things but the systems are present. It also has a great story. I have not played more than 15 minutes of dragons dogma In a demo b/c I couldn't stand the scream tearing and frame drops on ps3 but maybe I will have to try it on ps4 if the range combat comes anywhere close to horizon.
Click to expand...

Yeah PS3 version of DD is awful, but the PC (and presumably current gen) version of the game totally fixes that. DD's ranged combat doesn't just come close to horizon, it obliterates it.
 
I

Imp the Dimp

Member
Hellshy. said:
I do agree it's very light on the RPG side of things but the systems are present. It also has a great story. I have not played more than 15 minutes of dragons dogma In a demo b/c I couldn't stand the scream tearing and frame drops on ps3 but maybe I will have to try it on ps4 if the range combat comes anywhere close to horizon.
Click to expand...
Yes, I played the game. In fact, I felt like the combat was inspired by Dragon's Dogma, which is a good thing. DD's combat is similar but more fun, more varied and it got more snap.
 
F

Ferr986

Member
I agree. Dragon Dogma is the game to go for some Ranged combat goodness. I also love how well it mixs up with dagger gameplay. being an Archer/Strider in DD is the best!
 
M

MetalliCabombination

Member
Why has no one even tried to copy dd so far?
Mystic archer was incredible stuff.
And the magic in that game got dam. Imagine everything monhun world but the combat is replaced with DD like classes and skills.
*dies*
 
Svejk

Svejk

Member
Luigiv said:
Yeah PS3 version of DD is awful, but the PC (and presumably current gen) version of the game totally fixes that. DD's ranged combat doesn't just come close to horizon, it obliterates it.
Click to expand...
They're master works all, you can't go wrong.
 
H

Hellshy.

Member
Luigiv said:
Yeah PS3 version of DD is awful, but the PC (and presumably current gen) version of the game totally fixes that. DD's ranged combat doesn't just come close to horizon, it obliterates it.
Click to expand...

That is good to hear even though I am skeptical it obliterates it. I will pick it up on ps4 when it releases and give it another go.

Imp the Dimp said:
Yes, I played the game. In fact, I felt like the combat was inspired by Dragon's Dogma, which is a good thing. DD's combat is similar but more fun, more varied and it got more snap.
Click to expand...

After reading what you had mentioned about dragons dogma I already was thinking to myself that horizon was probably inspired by it. Does the game have anything like the ropecaster fornpinning down enemies?
 
I

Imp the Dimp

Member
Hellshy. said:
That is good to hear even though I am skeptical it obliterates it. I will pick it up on ps4 when it releases and give it another go.



After reading what you had mentioned about dragons dogma I already was thinking to myself that horizon was probably inspired by it. Does the game have anything like the ropecaster fornpinning down enemies?
Click to expand...

I don't know to be honest. My Assassin class didn't.

And yeah, be careful with hyperboles like "obliterates". DD's ranged combat is a bit better and I think you'll quickly see why, whereas its melee combat is indeed way better.
 
Exentryk

Exentryk

Member
As someone that hates ranged combat which involves manual aiming, I really appreciated Magic Archer class with its auto aim. But yeah, even manual aim feels great in terms of execution. In the same way, I didn't mind the cross bow in Witcher 3 because it is auto aim and used very infrequently.
 
M

Mr.Deadshot

Member
Finished the game twice and never touched range/magic becaue I prefer melee combat. But my new character for the PS4-version will be magic archer :)
 
F

Ferr986

Member
Hellshy. said:
After reading what you had mentioned about dragons dogma I already was thinking to myself that horizon was probably inspired by it. Does the game have anything like the ropecaster fornpinning down enemies?
Click to expand...

No.
But enemies have weak spots and they fall down weakened when enough damage is down (I know it's not the same, but its the closest I can think of).
 
R

Revan

Member
The Assassin class was broke as fuck in vanilla DD - and still silly broke in DD:DA.

The magic stuff was fun to play with but yah - I’m going Strider/Ranger/Assassin all the way when this comes out.

Has it been confirmed what the FPS is gonna be? It was less then optimal on PS3 (I platinumed that version).
 
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