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Forza Motorsport 7 demo is now live for Xbox One and W10

Uhh how do i check this lol? All i know is that my PC should be all up to date

You probably aren't. You have to be part of windows insiders or fast ring or wetf it's called. Based on the conversation a few pages back with what seems like the only other person trying to do HDR on PC, it was stated that they were using both an insider's build of windows, as well as a speicifc NV driver that isn't public and is only for folks on that build of windows.

But it seems neither of those are necessary if you're getting it to function properly on your set.

I still hate the way HDR works past 378.92. I don't understand why you need to toggle a control panel setting back and forth every time you wanna play an SDR or HDR game. Seems dumb.

Good to know that's what is triggering the option to show up in the menu though. That must be specific to this game or winstore games. The destiny 2 beta had the menu option there regardless and just looked like garbage if you didn't have things set right in the control panel setting.

But when you're on 378.92, you just flip the mode on in game, it kicks the TV to HDR, and you're done; no toggle in the control panel needed. Really hoping this gets sorted out sooner than later on PC.
 
So I decided to compare fully dynamic to everything maxed on my 1080 6600k.

Dynamic
QvCETea.png


Max settings except for 4xMSAA instead of 8 since I've never been able to push 8 on any newer graphically intensive game at max settings. I can test at 8 though if it is needed/wanted.
klhYPrY.png


All in all I was impressed. I don't notice enough if any differences between the two that I would have any issue playing on dynamic.

I never had a stutter during gameplay in either of the setups except for literally just one out of nowhere on one turn right after I rewound. The only other stutter I saw was at the loading screen and that's it.

Everything else was super smooth. If you know me, you know I was really harsh on the stuttering in FH3 and I never did end up going back to it after my refund so I wouldn't pull any punches here either. The stutter I saw here was absolutely not the same as the stutter in FH3. In Horizon it was consistent but here it only happened once VERY mildly and it didn't happen in other races for me so hopefully just an optimization issue that will get ironed out in patches that will surely come.

I don't know... The Porche was challenging at first but I got used to it. On controller that is and with simulation except for traction control and I'm not brave enough for manual yet... I'm not a car nut though so I would have no idea how it's supposed to handle. I just got used to all kinds of different handling styles in FH6 so I'm used to needing to learn how adapt to different cars and that some of them really need to be babied so I figured that was just what was going on here.

Some nitpicks though. I really hope the entire game is adapted for 21:9 and not just the racing. Having menus be boxed in is not fun.

Also, the dry to wet driving seemed off somehow. Like there wasn't any change. Maybe it was just the car that is supposed to handle amazingly but I figured there would be much more of a difference going from dry to wet and even further driving in the wet itself. It felt way too easy and I even had the friction setting turned off. I really liked how in 6 there where puddles that would mess up your day if you didn't handle them properly and driving in the wet there felt properly terrifying.

Hopefully this is just kinks that need to be worked out of the demo though and all gets straightened out for everyone. Especially the performance problems that some seem to be having. I've learned that just because I am having a good time and not experiencing any issue it doesn't mean I can't help lend my voice to those that do. I've been in that situation where I've been in the minority that are having issues and it really sucks when the ones not having any drown you out.

Other than that, good job from what I can see.
 
I don't know... The Porche was challenging at first but I got used to it. On controller that is and with simulation except for traction control and I'm not brave enough for manual yet... I'm not a car nut though so I would have no idea how it's supposed to handle. I just got used to all kinds of different handling styles in FH6 so I'm used to needing to learn how adapt to different cars and that some of them really need to be babied so I figured that was just what was going on here.

I found the Porsche quite a handful. And I got much better times once I backed off the throttle and was more gentle. I just thought that's how an arse-engined RWD car was going to behave. I certainly didn't have the negative experience many others have.
 
This game is still the best simcade racing game to play with the controller. Its so nice.
I'm not a fan of the physics exactly, but please let's keep calling Forza (at least Motorsport) a sim and not simcade. From where I'm coming from, a game is a sim if it doesn't try to reinterpret real life physics to get certain effects that make a game more fun, easier or more interesting.
 

Luckydog

Member
Sändersson;249445725 said:
This is objectively false. It doesnt matter which platform you play on, which you prefer etc but this is just false. Dark souls 1 has been objectively the worst pc port which I have ever played, it was locked at 720P@30FPS and it was still superior version and ran better on a toaster than its console counterparts. The idea that pc version is the superior version only in the "best case scenario" is living in a land of dreams. If you have a gtx 1060 (or equilevant) and pretty much any i3 you can find on the market, you are going to be playing the superior version on your pc. As long as the game boots, its better.

Now that being said the game was pretty good. Really liked the gameplay and customizability (is that a word?) and it worked great with everything cranked to the max at 1440P (2xmsaa) and framerate never dropped below 72 (gtx1080 7700k)... Which is why im wondering is the game capped at 72 fps? I didnt see any "disable vsync" setting. Only the one which had "dynamic", 30 and 60 etc.

I dont think you understand what the word objectively means.
 
Played the demo on my Xbox One OG and man I have to say it looks fine on it. I remember the videos on Gamersyde of the One X and honestly I am not seeing a world of difference. Of course we're getting the difference of 1080p versus native 4K but I do expect some other things to be smoothed out as well. With that I mean some aliasing here and there on the tracks and power lines and such. That shouldn't be on One X anymore. Overall I am really wondering what differences it will really have on X.

I'm sure DF will tell us.
 

Mohonky

Member
Had a go on my PC

I7 4770k OC
16gb DDR3
970GTX
2560x1080
Dynamic Settings

Menus were a stuttery mess for some reason but game was really smooth, looked good.

All assists off. Didnt feel the handling on the Porsche, constant understeer I felt like I had to wait an enternity to get on the power.

Trucks felt alright, not amazing but what I expected.

The GTR was the only actual racing I enjoyed, it at least felt like I could get more rotation out of the car but still over all felt like the rotation for the speed I was carrying was off. At least getting on the power it felt more lively, probably because it was wet.

Dunno, the handling model felt a bit annoying, like the cars were a bit lifeless; really hard tonget them to turn in or stop pushing wide. I think I had steel girders for sway bars up front....
 

thelastword

Banned
Just to further exemplify from one of my earlier posts on entry level hardware running this well because XB1 runs it at 1080p 60fps or midtier cards running this at 4k easily. Here is the RX Vega 56 running Forza 7 at 8K ultra settings at 60fps. All it has is a slight OC, no Vega 64 bios here, core clocks don't even go over1600 Mhz. Core fluctuates between high 1400's to high 1500 Mhz and HBM fluctuates between 700 to 950 MHZ. GPU utilization is hardly ever at max and seems to average around the early to mid 80's even then. This just shows that Forza 7 is really not a demanding game or doing anything really tasking....

Yet, I do think it can run even better with some optimizations. There are times CPU1 seem to be getting the brunt of the workload, so stuttering could definitely be ironed out....I think loadtimes need a boost as well...Even at 8K ultra, there are some weird outlines on mountains and some basic geometry..Have T10 confirmed that 4k textures are in for this demo?
 
You clearly have at least dynamic geometry turned on (look at the exhaust scapes). Try setting up everything to max

Already have done that. One screenshot can't cover every possible setting.

Done everything from max settings at 2160p to low medium 720p and many in-between and trying default dynamic.

Also to note in general, MSI afterburner is there just to show the stutter. It's the same without it running. Also game mode is off (tried with it on as well) Game DVR is off.

Booted up FH3 again and it plays well but clearly they done some CPU core management changes since the launch.
 
First thing I had to do was adjust the inner deadzone on the controller. It was way too big. With the deadzone adjusted I found control much better. After that I played around with the driving aids with the Porsche. The two options that had the biggest impact on control was ASM and the friction option, which is new to me. ABS should always be off though, as is always the case the brakes are way too strong.

Like others the menus were stuttery. The game itself seemed fine though i didn't have Afterburner running. I thought that maybe there was the odd frame drop but I'm uncertain. Will try again with Afterburner on. Otherwise it was fine. Didn't try HDR yet so i wonder if that'll work. Didn't see an option for it so i guess the W10 HDR app needs to be on. I'll have another bash tomorrow.

If your on PC and have something like Afterburner running, close it as that's what was causing mine to crash to desktop at the start.
It's okay. I know what the problem is and a work round for it. The game starts windowed and goes into fullscreen mode when you start. If the window is already fullscreen (but still windowed if you know what I mean) it crashes. Leaving it in a smaller window then going fullscreen is fine. Had the exact same problem with FH3.
 

GamingArena

Member
Not sure what kind of witchcraft they did with this game,
but at 1440p all maxed out with 4x MSAA my Titan Xp stays in lower 3D power state with only 1550mhz compared to regular 2050mhz and with only 30-40% max GPU usage at 82FPS locked, looks like i could probably push 120fps 4K and beyond with how much headroom is left there on single GPU...
Insane and the game still looks as one of the best and cleanest looking racing title on PC, really amazing work done by the devs bravo!
 

Momentary

Banned
Not sure what kind of witchcraft they did with this game,
but at 1440p all maxed out with 4x MSAA my Titan Xp stays in lower 3D power state with only 1550mhz compared to regular 2050mhz and with only 30-40% max GPU usage at 82FPS locked, looks like i could probably push 120fps 4K and beyond with how much headroom is left there on single GPU...
Insane and the game still looks as one of the best and cleanest looking racing title on PC, really amazing work done by the devs bravo!

I'm running this on a Titan Xp and was getting 60FPS at 4K maxed out graphics with 125% scaling and 4xMSAA with OBS recording at the same time. The game won't let me go above 72FPS though for some reason.
 

rodrigolfp

Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
Not sure what kind of witchcraft they did with this game,
but at 1440p all maxed out with 4x MSAA my Titan Xp stays in lower 3D power state with only 1550mhz compared to regular 2050mhz and with only 30-40% max GPU usage at 82FPS locked, looks like i could probably push 120fps 4K and beyond with how much headroom is left there on single GPU...
Insane and the game still looks as one of the best and cleanest looking racing title on PC, really amazing work done by the devs bravo!

the witchcraft they did is called parity with Xbox One hardware :)
 

horkrux

Member
I don't see what that has to do with the sub par textures and models but okay. The demo looks older than FH3.

Well, I didn't notice anything egregiously ugly myself, but what I mean is that it's meant to run better than FH3 (which it would if it wasn't for lack of optimization and framecaps) and it obviously can only do that by looking worse.
 
Can't seem to get good performance with my PC - which runs Apex and Horizon 3 at 1440p60.

Stutters even at 1080p with my 1070GTX.

Possibly a problem with my PC I guess. Might be a background program.
 

spuckthew

Member
All the menus and transitions stutter like crazy, but the gameplay itself was butter smooth in all three races with all the video settings maxed (except 4xMSAA) at 1080p (4670K & GTX1070). I didn't see what my framerate was, though, because I couldn't get the game to launch with RTSS running, but I'll have a poke around later or tomorrow to see if I can get it to play ball.
 

terrible

Banned
Yea, but you play on "normal steering", don't you? What Normal Steering does, it changes your actual steering input in the non-visual part of the game, just the physics engine I mean, to what is needed. On a controller it changes the steering acceleration super fast if countersteering is needed and basically jumps to the ideal countersteering angle as soon as you flick the stick, with the car's weight at the front it makes the steering acceleration slower to not upset the car. It not only does this on a controller, but when using a wheel too.
If you turn that aid off - and that is what it is, the most powerful assist (and most unrealistic if not on a controller) in the whole assist menu, even though it's called just "normal" - drifting is harder than in rFactor 2, harder than in any sim even pCARS1, which's tire model was almost broken for slow-speed drifting.

I also made a video about Simulation vs Normal steering for a private talk with another fellow gaffer:
https://youtu.be/QfTkHVKQLsk

As you can see in the video, the steering angle change is non-visual. The tire direction differ from what the car is actual doing.
It's a bit like turning your simulation physics racing game into a bit of an arcade racer when playing with a wheel. Or the "latest news" comparison: Like using controller aim-assist when using a mouse.

If they called it "controller steering help" instead of "normal steering" and "1:1 input matching" rather than "Simulation Steering", it would not only be more correct, it would make it more obvious to wheel users, how broken the tire physics are if you're not just following the racing line input suggestions but trying to drive it like a real car.
It feels to me like Turn 10 is disguising the shortcomings of their physics model ever since FM5's tire model by hiding that it can't cope with weird, snappy steering acceleration that should not lead to an almost uncatchable spin, but can't be achieved using a controller with the speed-sensitive steering and Normal Steering aid anyway, so nobody notices it.

[Side-note: Personally, what I think the lag between physical and on-screen steering wheel is, is not actual lag, but an input smoothing filter that averages the last 60ms or so of input signal values (typically used for controllers in racing games), adding a kind of damp-spring to the steering because the physics engine /tire model has trouble coping with too swift changes]

I definitely use normal steering, I've been using it instead of sim steering since I got my wheel a couple years back. Normal steering with all its filters and assists feels more natural than when playing with 1:1 steering on simulation due to the physics. While normal steering may actually be less realistic in many ways as you mentioned it still ends up feeling better and that's really all I care about when I'm playing a game like this. The disconnect between what the FFB is telling you and what is actually happening with the car just makes the need for normal steering even larger when using a wheel.
 

tuna_love

Banned
i was getting stutters in some games for a while after a random win 10 update i had to reinstall windows. it was about 4 games that did it
 
Is it just me or does the game become slightly more dim when you change from hood/first person view to behind the car view?

I do like that added second cockpit view.
 

KdotIX

Member
Well it crashed when i tried to run a benchmark but i can say that much it runs at dynamic low and cant even go full hd lol. 1280x720 xD

Ahh that sucks. Thanks for the info. I'll throw it at my rig and let you know the outcome - see if the 1070 improves it in some way.
 

shandy706

Member
(Watches guy play Forza 7 in random stream)

Guy: "Heheh, Forza isn't a sim, it's more arcade and the physics aren't realistic at all."

(Random streamer proceeds to struggle to drive Porsche in straight line or around a corner without spinning out)

😂
 
I definitely use normal steering, I've been using it instead of sim steering since I got my wheel a couple years back. Normal steering with all its filters and assists feels more natural than when playing with 1:1 steering on simulation due to the physics. While normal steering may actually be less realistic in many ways as you mentioned it still ends up feeling better and that's really all I care about when I'm playing a game like this. The disconnect between what the FFB is telling you and what is actually happening with the car just makes the need for normal steering even larger when using a wheel.
I agree, Alan from Team VVV mentioned the same about sim steering in his FM6 videos, he said something like "I don't know what it simulates(!), but it's certainly not ..."
 
Sändersson;249446082 said:
There is something definitely wrong.

Yeah, that doesn't seem right. I'm getting pretty solid 4k/60fps with 4x MSAA using the same card and an i7-6700k. The only thing that was really rough was the opening menu when it pans over the car - that seemed to run at about -7 frames per second.
 

Shpeshal Nick

aka Collingwood
Surprised to hear about issues from people here.

I ran it on my Alienware i7 which only packs a 6GB 1060 and has 16GB RAM and it ran it flawlessly at 1080. As soon as I plugged it into my 4K tv though it became another story.

Literally became unplayable lol.
 

Clockwork

Member
You probably aren't. You have to be part of windows insiders or fast ring or wetf it's called. Based on the conversation a few pages back with what seems like the only other person trying to do HDR on PC, it was stated that they were using both an insider's build of windows, as well as a speicifc NV driver that isn't public and is only for folks on that build of windows.

But it seems neither of those are necessary if you're getting it to function properly on your set.

I still hate the way HDR works past 378.92. I don't understand why you need to toggle a control panel setting back and forth every time you wanna play an SDR or HDR game. Seems dumb.

Good to know that's what is triggering the option to show up in the menu though. That must be specific to this game or winstore games. The destiny 2 beta had the menu option there regardless and just looked like garbage if you didn't have things set right in the control panel setting.

But when you're on 378.92, you just flip the mode on in game, it kicks the TV to HDR, and you're done; no toggle in the control panel needed. Really hoping this gets sorted out sooner than later on PC.

Yeah sorry for the confusion.

I am on the fall update insider build with the newest nvidia drivers (not on nvidia.com) but I did not intend to give the impression that this was a requirement for HDR to work (although I will note it did fix Mass Effect: Andromeda's HDR for me).

The only necessity appears to be to toggle HDR on within Windows 10 before starting the game. The desktop will look like shit when you do this but the game will look normal.
 
Wow, T10 really outdone themselves this time. How the hell did they manage to get it done on regular X bone one? I mean Nurburgring goes from no rain to heavy rain to light rain to no rain again with wet surface to partly sunny to dusk. I never skipped Forza and it's the only reason I still have xbox but damn this looks so good even on regular xbox one.
 
People who have in-race stutter, try turning everything to low or medium, don't use dymanic, see if that helps because I feel like sometimes asset changing in race causes a spike. If that does help then creep the settings up until you get drops again and find the sweet spot.

Oh BTW, I am sure I am not the only happy one about T10 removing the overly dramatic inrace music, right?

I prefer not to have it but I also did not mind it, honestly should be an optional toggle but turn10 seem to have different ideas for what they want every game, so.
 

MaLDo

Member
People who have in-race stutter, try turning everything to low or medium, don't use dymanic, see if that helps because I feel like sometimes asset changing in race causes a spike. If that does help then creep the settings up until you get drops again and find the sweet spot.



I prefer not to have it but I also did not mind it, honestly should be an optional toggle but turn10 seem to have different ideas for what they want every game, so.

No, I found that closing Process Lasso can improve the problem. But sometimes there are stutters in the same points of the track. This problem was exactly the same in Brazil and Yas Marina tracks in Forza Apex.

Another thing I think is that the skies and clouds are videos. Is the same effect that the projector screen in the menus. The mountains geometry are separated from the video using a mask and that mask will produce black artifact with MSAA on, because the is no geometry behind the mountains.
 

Mascot

Member
Wow, T10 really outdone themselves this time. How the hell did they manage to get it done on regular X bone one? I mean Nurburgring goes from no rain to heavy rain to light rain to no rain again with wet surface to partly sunny to dusk. I never skipped Forza and it's the only reason I still have xbox but damn this looks so good even on regular xbox one.
Looking forward to seeing your liveries, H3rTz.
:)
 
Anyone else getting a maximum of 90 degrees of rotation when using a wheel? (looking at the driver's hands and the front wheels when in external cam)
 

eso76

Member
the witchcraft they did in is called parity with Xbox One hardware :)

The demo doesn't let you pick ultra models for cars though, and not sure about 4k assets.
So demo maxed out might be different from retail maxed out. Or not.

Even a 970 runs the game fantastically in 1080p and I have seen none of the hiccups or lag others had. Menus are 30fps but other than that no issue whatsoever.
 

MaLDo

Member
The demo doesn't let you pick ultra models for cars though, and not sure about 4k assets.
So demo maxed out might be different from retail maxed out. Or not.

Even a 970 runs the game fantastically in 1080p and I have seen none of the hiccups or lag others had. Menus are 30fps but other than that no issue whatsoever.


Menus are 30 fps in dynamic. But if you set 60 fps vsync will be 60 fps.
 
I had textures set for high quality in nvidia control panel and it appeared to give a significant performance boost once I dropped it down to 'quality'.
 

Bydobob

Member
People who have in-race stutter, try turning everything to low or medium, don't use dymanic, see if that helps because I feel like sometimes asset changing in race causes a spike. If that does help then creep the settings up until you get drops again and find the sweet spot..

This is not about drops, it's the frame-pacing - it's all over the place even with settings on low. I haven't moved from 60fps the whole time.

All in all I was impressed. I don't notice enough if any differences between the two that I would have any issue playing on dynamic.

I never had a stutter during gameplay in either of the setups except for literally just one out of nowhere on one turn right after I rewound. The only other stutter I saw was at the loading screen and that's it.

Everything else was super smooth. If you know me, you know I was really harsh on the stuttering in FH3 and I never did end up going back to it after my refund so I wouldn't pull any punches here either. The stutter I saw here was absolutely not the same as the stutter in FH3. In Horizon it was consistent but here it only happened once VERY mildly and it didn't happen in other races for me so hopefully just an optimization issue that will get ironed out in patches that will surely come.

Have you actually measured the frame times? I'm wondering if you're not just insensitive to micro-stuttering. It's a different beast to FH3 at launch, which couldn't hold 60 and stuttered in line with framerate changes - but actually had perfect framepacing once it was locked down. This demo bounces around even when locked to 30fps.
 
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