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[Beefy]

Race threads go mad a hell of a lot lately.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

Literally the only thing I've come out against here is blocking traffic. I'm fine if you want to protest in a park or any other public place, as is your right as an american. Implying that I don't understand the point of their protest though really is a way to win hearts and minds. I hope it gives you that smug sense of superiority you're looking for.

The point is that whether or not you are inconvenienced is irrelevant. If blocking traffic is what it takes to raise awareness, so be it. Anybody who is so incensed by it that they turn against a noble cause was never really going to support it anyway. "I was all for BLM but I was late for a dentists appointment so now go crooked and racists cops!" That's not how it works. Historically, it's the opposite. The reason these people take to the streets and highways to protest is bexaise they aren't being heard, and their voices are being minimized. So your solution is to reinforce that by telling them when and where and how it's acceptable to protest. Fuck all of that.

And no I don't think you understand the point of the protest. Based on your posts it's clear there is very little you do understand.

 

[Messofanego]

Yep. Because Rosa Parks being forced to sit in the back of the bus is the same as Rosa Parks standing in the middle of a highway.

/s

Rosa Parks engaged in a huge disruptive protest. Read up, jeez.

 

[rudger]

Why do you think anyone cares about winning you over? Why do you keep making this all about you? It's about disruption and tension to the point that elected officials and the government have to step in to fix the mess. You can find more about this in literally any book about Martin Luther King, for instance, but you can go much, much deeper if you ever feel like researching instead of having bad arguments!

Seriously, talk to actual protesters. You're typing to one right now. You can just ask what the purpose is instead of assuming we give a shit what someone as milquetoast as you is going to do.

how do expect to implement change if you aren't trying to get people on your side? I.e. Winning them over.

 

[Not]

Stop insulting me for two seconds and maybe I'll care about people dying, and boyyy you'll be lucky if I do

how do expect to implement change if you aren't trying to get people on your side? I.e. Winning them over.

Can't do anything if people don't have real-world reference. And if they refuse to read or turn off their confirmation bias, there's no point.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

how do expect to implement change if you aren't trying to get people on your side? I.e. Winning them over.

Can you describe some radical political changes in racial justice that necessitated winning over the majority of the population first?

Can you also describe situations where black people have ever successfully "won over" white America in any way regarding their personal rights, freedoms, and dignity? What tactics did they use?

 

[bossmonkey]

Why do you think anyone cares about winning you over? Why do you keep making this all about you? It's about disruption and tension to the point that elected officials and the government have to step in to fix the mess. You can find more about this in literally any book about Martin Luther King, for instance, but you can go much, much deeper if you ever feel like researching instead of having bad arguments!

Seriously, talk to actual protesters. You're typing to one right now. You can just ask what the purpose is instead of assuming we give a shit what someone as milquetoast as you is going to do.

AAAnd that is your problem, you're not meeting me in the middle. You're saying that you don't give a shit about others opinions but yet you want me to ask you about yours. If you're wondering about why people don't want to listen then that is it right there. People don't want to be yelled at and harassed but then be told that their opinion doesn't matter.

 

[SyenceLabb]

Rosa Parks not leaving her seat started the Montgomery Bus boycott, which led to the entire city's public transportation losing money for two weeks until their demands were met by the Supreme Court.

Do you have a critical analysis of this protest event for us? Was this unacceptable?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montgomery_bus_boycott

This was perfectly acceptable. There was explicit racist laws in place that had to go. What makes me different from some of you I think is quite fundamental. I don't think 2017 and 1954 are synonymous. You're making arguments based off this underlying premise. Maybe my reading comprehension is severely lacking, but some of you speak about today as if it's either just as bad as the Jim Crow era, or arguably worse. I say this because it seems to me to be quite clear. I'm against protesters in the streets, so I obviously was against the civil rights movement of the 1950's and 1960's. You can make that jump, but it's a ridiculous one.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

AAAnd that is your problem, you're not meeting me in the middle. You're saying that you don't give a shit about others opinions but yet you want me to ask you about yours. If you're wondering about why people don't want to listen then that is it right there. People don't want to be yelled at and harassed but then be told that their opinion doesn't matter.

Lmao. "I know your people are being murdered by police and improsoned at an alarmly disproportionate rate, but meet me in the middle."

You are hopeless. Nobody needs to meet you anywhere. You are an impediment to social progress. It has happened and will continue to happen in spite of people like you.

 

[bossmonkey]

The point is that whether or not you are inconvenienced is irrelevant. If blocking traffic is what it takes to raise awareness, so be it. Anybody who is so incensed by it that they turn against a noble cause was never really going to support it anyway. "I was all for BLM but I was late for a dentists appointment so now go crooked and racists cops!" That's not how it works. Historically, it's the opposite. The reason these people take to the streets and highways to protest is bexaise they aren't being heard, and their voices are being minimized. So your solution is to reinforce that by telling them when and where and how it's acceptable to protest. Fuck all of that.

And no I don't think you understand the point of the protest. Based on your posts it's clear there is very little you do understand.

So you're saying that the person that you've pissed off to get their attention is going to hear anything you're saying after you're pissed them off. That's not how people work.

Here you go again making generalities about people you don't know. Grow up.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

AAAnd that is your problem, you're not meeting me in the middle.

Still, again: why is this about you?

You're saying that you don't give a shit about others opinions but yet you want me to ask you about yours. If you're wondering about why people don't want to listen then that is it right there. People don't want to be yelled at and harassed but then be told that their opinion doesn't matter.

Can you name a nice protester you remember? What did they tell you, and how did you change after the experience? Since apparently you'll change if we're nice to you despite you saying race problems in America are not necessarily correlated to whiteness and white supremacy.

 

[Slayven]

This was perfectly acceptable. There was explicit racist laws in place that had to go. What makes me different from some of you I think is quite fundamental. I don't think 2017 and 1954 are synonymous. You're making arguments based off this underlying premise. Maybe my reading comprehension is severely lacking, but some of you speak about today as if it's either just as bad as the Jim Crow era, or arguably worse. I say this because it seems to me to be quite clear. I'm against protesters in the streets, so I obviously was against the civil rights movement of the 1950's and 1960's. You can make that jump, but it's a ridiculous one.

"Guys people are just being killed, it's not as bad as Jim Crow"

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

This was perfectly acceptable. There was explicit racist laws in place that had to go. What makes me different from some of you I think is quite fundamental. I don't think 2017 and 1954 are synonymous. You're making arguments based off this underlying premise. Maybe my reading comprehension is severely lacking, but some of you speak about today as if it's either just as bad as the Jim Crow era, or arguably worse. I say this because it seems to me to be quite clear. I'm against protesters in the streets, so I obviously was against the civil rights movement of the 1950's and 1960's. You can make that jump, but it's a ridiculous one.

Rosa Parks was at the signing for the Voting Rights Act. In 2013, the Supreme Court threw it out.

Read books. The New Jim Crow by Michelle Alexander or Just Mercy by Bryan Stevenson will blow your mind if you're as ignorant on this topic as you seem. Or just watch The 13th on Netflix, because it's obvious you haven't.

 

[kaioshade]

This was perfectly acceptable. There was explicit racist laws in place that had to go. What makes me different from some of you I think is quite fundamental. I don't think 2017 and 1954 are synonymous. You're making arguments based off this underlying premise. Maybe my reading comprehension is severely lacking, but some of you speak about today as if it's either just as bad as the Jim Crow era, or arguably worse. I say this because it seems to me to be quite clear. I'm against protesters in the streets, so I obviously was against the civil rights movement of the 1950's and 1960's. You can make that jump, but it's a ridiculous one.

People are getting straight up MURDERED with no repercussions . Do you not think thats bad?

 

[Ninja Scooter]

This was perfectly acceptable. There was explicit racist laws in place that had to go. What makes me different from some of you I think is quite fundamental. I don't think 2017 and 1954 are synonymous. You're making arguments based off this underlying premise. Maybe my reading comprehension is severely lacking, but some of you speak about today as if it's either just as bad as the Jim Crow era, or arguably worse. I say this because it seems to me to be quite clear. I'm against protesters in the streets, so I obviously was against the civil rights movement of the 1950's and 1960's. You can make that jump, but it's a ridiculous one.

Racism and racial injustice didn't end when Jim Crow ended. The situation is as bad for some people, in some parts of the country, as it was back then. Why is that not worth protesting? Should black people sit back be content with how things are? Should they be grateful that white people simply allow them to exist. If you honestly think there is nothing from a social or racial standpoint in 2017 that merits protests or unrest, you are one of the most naive mother fuckers I've ever encountered.

 

[Enzom21]

Literally the only thing I've come out against here is blocking traffic. I'm fine if you want to protest in a park or any other public place, as is your right as an american. Implying that I don't understand the point of their protest though really is a way to win hearts and minds. I hope it gives you that smug sense of superiority you're looking for.

So you have issue with this protest as well?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Student_strike_of_1970

 

[Jeronimo Jones]

"Guys people are just being killed, it's not as bad as Jim Crow"

I mean, we can use the water fountains and the front door now. Almost there.

 

[Llyranor]

So you're saying that because white people make up the majority of people and we have racial problems, it must be their fault (not an invalid point but ultimately a fallacy, see correlation vs causation). Way to really put every white person in a box there. That is part of the problem. White people need to look at other races without preconceptions just as much as minorities need to with white people. It goes both ways. Be the change that you want to be in the world by making the first step to not generalize people.

Every white person benefits from white privilege. Every white person benefits from the status quo that puts minorities down. If you as a white person are okay with maintaining the status quo and want 'out of sight, out of mind' protests that don't inconvenience you in any way, you are passively contributing to white privilege.

It doesn't matter if you don't own slaves or never personally killed any black person yourself. You are benefitting from systematic racism in a society that privileges you in almost every facet of your life. Just going about your day and doing nothing wrong is still passively being complicit in a system that benefits you.

So yes, when people say 'white people', they refer to all those who do nothing but help maintain the status quo. They are referring to a system that directly advantages ALL white people. They are referring to people who are okay with this systematic oppression of minorities.

If you are white and fighting for minorities' causes, that's great. We need more people like you. But if you were, you'd already know that you aren't being targeted by statements because you acknowledge that white privilege massively advantages you, and recognize that semantics is a poor deflection in the grand scheme of things.

I'm not saying this to put you down. I am merely stating that you are benefitting from the status quo and that maybe other people are not okay with it.

 

[bossmonkey]

Still, again: why is this about you?

Can you name a nice protester you remember? What did they tell you, and how did you change after the experience? Since apparently you'll change if we're nice to you despite you saying race problems in America are not necessarily correlated to whiteness and white supremacy.

First of all I never said white supremacy doesn't have anything to do with racism.That's putting words in my mouth.White supremacists are scum and they make the rest of us look like shit. I just said that the fact that someone is white doesn't automatically make them racist. I'm trying to make the point that you can't generalize a person by the color of their skin (seems like a point I've heard some other people make).

You also ignored my point about people in general and cherry picked the one thing I said with I in it.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

Has anybody in this thread said that all white people are racist?

 

[Late Flag]

I mean, YOU put yourself in it by using yourself, your home and your commute as your position. You can't back out now.

What exactly am I backing out of? I thought I was being pretty explicit about the fact that I am not okay with protests that stop me from going on about my business. I am strongly in favor in free speech rights, but "free speech" does not mean the right force others to listen to you, and it certainly doesn't mean the right to interfere with other people.

 

[cwmartin]

What exactly am I backing out of? I thought I was being pretty explicit about the fact that I am not okay with protests that stop me from going on about my business. I am strongly in favor in free speech rights, but "free speech" does not mean the right force others to listen to you, and it certainly doesn't mean the right to interfere with other people.

You just "going about your business" is what continues the normalization and the status quo of a system and society that has failed black americans, and has proven countless times, is dangerous for black americans to be a part of. Especially around law enforcement. So congratulations on doing your part.

 

[bossmonkey]

Every white person benefits from white privilege. Every white person benefits from the status quo that puts minorities down. If you as a white person are okay with maintaining the status quo and want 'out of sight, out of mind' protests that don't inconvenience you in any way, you are passively contributing to white supremacy.

It doesn't matter if you don't own slaves or never personally killed any black person yourself. You are benefitting from systematic racism in a society that privileges you in almost every facet of your life. Just going about your day and doing nothing wrong is still passively being complicit in a system that benefits you.

So yes, when people say 'white people', they refer to all those who do nothing but help maintain the status quo. They are referring to a system that directly advantages ALL white people. They are referring to people who are okay with this systematic oppression of minorities.

If you are white and fighting for minorities' causes, that's great. We need more people like you. But if you were, you'd already know that you aren't being targeted by statements because you acknowledge that white privilege massively advantages you, and recognize that semantics is a poor deflection in the grand scheme of things.

First of all, thank you for being the one person I've seen on here to make a level headed comment. Secondly, my only problem is with generalizing white people is that it is a hypocritical argument. If you want to say that all white people are racist then you can't argue effectively when someone calls black youths thugs, or assumes that all Hispanics are illegals. It also generalizes against the rest of us who are all for racial equality and who would like to work toward it.

 

[Neece]

AAAnd that is your problem, you're not meeting me in the middle. You're saying that you don't give a shit about others opinions but yet you want me to ask you about yours. If you're wondering about why people don't want to listen then that is it right there. People don't want to be yelled at and harassed but then be told that their opinion doesn't matter.

In the market place of ideas, especially in regards to progress, all opinions don't matter. There were people around during the 60s that believed certain inconveniences against the public were steps too far for black people fighting for their rights. Do you truly feel as if the civil rights leaders should have met them in the middle?

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

You also ignored my point about people in general and cherry picked the one thing I said with I in it.

It has nothing to do with "I," which you didn't even type in the thing I quoted! It has to do with you making racial injustice about you and your comfort, which no one cares about, because you aren't the one being oppressed or facing injustice regarding this topic.

You guys know this is the "why do Nazis get passes while we criticize BLM" thread you're criticizing BLM in, right?

 

[Chie Satonaka]

"Guys people are just being killed, it's not as bad as Jim Crow"

Somehow I find new ways to be surprised in the quagmire that is a NeoGAF race thread.

 

[Con_Smith]

It's not enough "boy if you don't"s to hand out here. Legit cats worried about how people protest when the country was founded on white men rebelling and doing things that were inconvenient to get their point across. But oh lawdy, these uppity blacks wanna make a scene and push their issues in my face while I'm trying to get some Chipotle.

Fuck outta here.

Dude saying it ain't as bad as Jim Crow or whatever clearly doesn't pay attention to cops blantanlty telling people they will kill black folks. Hell a fucking nazi killed a white woman and the fucking President couldn't even be bothered to properly make a statement.

"oh but if she just stayed out the street she would have been fine."

Hell naw. It's fucking rediculous how much people of color have to put up with in this country from the WS, Nazi wannabes, current administration, and online and yet we have to meet the people in the middle who wouldn't give a damn about a fellow American/Humans plight in this world. EAD.

 

[MHWilliams]

I didn't realize that sit-ins blocked traffic for a few hundred thousand people. Also who's complained about Kaepernick here? If he wants to kneel down let the man kneel.

They shut down entire city centers.

Like, do you honestly think this didn't block traffic?

The point of a protest of that nature isn't to just mass in a place. It is to disrupt the local livelihood to such a degree that your voice is heard. As someone pointed out before, the Montgomery Buss Boycott cost the city thousands in revenue, brought the company to near bankruptcy, and likely lost folks their jobs. The local KKK-style group surged because of the boycott.

In The Letter From Birmingham:

You deplore the demonstrations taking place in Birmingham. But your statement, I am sorry to say, fails to express a similar concern for the conditions that brought about the demonstrations.
-
You may well ask: "Why direct action? Why sit ins, marches and so forth? Isn't negotiation a better path?" You are quite right in calling for negotiation. Indeed, this is the very purpose of direct action. Nonviolent direct action seeks to create such a crisis and foster such a tension that a community which has constantly refused to negotiate is forced to confront the issue. It seeks so to dramatize the issue that it can no longer be ignored. My citing the creation of tension as part of the work of the nonviolent resister may sound rather shocking.

This is what protest is.

If you believe that protest that may have a negative effect on the average citizen is wrong, then you believe that most of the effective protests throughout history (some of which turned violent), are wrong. Is that the argument you wish to make?

 

[D i Z]

AAAnd that is your problem, you're not meeting me in the middle. You're saying that you don't give a shit about others opinions but yet you want me to ask you about yours. If you're wondering about why people don't want to listen then that is it right there. People don't want to be yelled at and harassed but then be told that their opinion doesn't matter.

Your middle is hypothetical. It's groundless.

 

[bossmonkey]

It has nothing to do with "I." It has to do with you making racial injustice about you and your comfort, which no one cares about, because you aren't the one being oppressed or facing injustice regarding this topic.

You guys know this is the "why do Nazis get passes while we criticize BLM" thread you're criticizing BLM in, right?

Ok lets get back to that point then and I think we can find some common ground there. Nazis are shit...end of story. They shouldn't even be allowed to congregate in a perfect world but the first amendment has to go both ways. That's why the ACLU supports racists and protesters equally. They shouldn't get passes but they also don't bother to protest where most people are inconvenienced so therefore they get a pass (sometimes literally, because muh permit). If BLM protested in parks, they'd probably get a pass too. Instead they try to make more of an impact and they block major roadways. Is there a racial component to this, absolutely but it's exasperated by the people they piss off on their way home from work.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

If BLM protested in parks

Do you know either way?

 

[bossmonkey]

Do you know that they don't?

I'm sorry that was poorly worded. I should've said if they only protested in parks.

 

[Skilletor]

Ok lets get back to that point then and I think we can find some common ground there. Nazis are shit...end of story. They shouldn't even be allowed to congregate in a perfect world but the first amendment has to go both ways. That's why the ACLU supports racists and protesters equally. They shouldn't get passes but they also don't bother to protest where most people are inconvenienced so therefore they get a pass (sometimes literally, because muh permit). If BLM protested in parks, they'd probably get a pass too. Instead they try to make more of an impact and they block major roadways. Is there a racial component to this, absolutely but it's exasperated by the people they piss off on their way home from work.

I care more about getting home to watch Netflix than I do about systemic racism and injustice.

 

[The Ummah]

Of course they should. But I don't want them doing it in my basement, on the highway when I'm trying to get to work, etc. Feel free to make your point, but leave me out of it. That goes for everybody, regardless of whether I agree or disagree with the point you're making.

Stay in your bubble of happiness where you don't have to worry about anything that doesn't directly affect you.

 

[Chie Satonaka]

I care more about getting home to watch Netflix than I do about systemic racism and injustice.

Pretty interesting.

You're supposed to win those people over to your side, somehow. And protesting in parks is apparently the way to do it. That's the big secret to ending racial oppression.

 

[Chmpocalypse]

The point is that whether or not you are inconvenienced is irrelevant. If blocking traffic is what it takes to raise awareness, so be it. Anybody who is so incensed by it that they turn against a noble cause was never really going to support it anyway. "I was all for BLM but I was late for a dentists appointment so now go crooked and racists cops!" That's not how it works. Historically, it's the opposite. The reason these people take to the streets and highways to protest is bexaise they aren't being heard, and their voices are being minimized. So your solution is to reinforce that by telling them when and where and how it's acceptable to protest. Fuck all of that.

And no I don't think you understand the point of the protest. Based on your posts it's clear there is very little you do understand.

Exactly. If you're this easy to turn away, you were never more than an ally of convenience.

 

[Neece]

Nobody thinks about the people that get pissed off on their way home from work from the super bowl or NBA or college basketball championship parades that halt and shut down traffic.

Guaranteed there are people missing appointments, being late, having to cancel or reschedule events, but there is no moral outrage firing up the masses about their afternoon of being inconvenienced.

But let it be a protest and suddenly it's such an egregious, unforgivable act.

 

[g11]

Because people are hypocrites. Well, not all people, but most people.

 

[GurgleBot20]

Nobody thinks about the people that get pissed off on their way home from work from the super bowl or NBA or college basketball championship parades that halt and shut down traffic.

Guaranteed there are people missing appointments, being late, having to cancel or reschedule events, but there is no moral outrage firing up the masses about their afternoon of being inconvenienced.

Having an outrage about that would be more justifiable, but nah, we live in country where sports are more important than human rights.

 

[Skilletor]

Pretty interesting.

You're supposed to win those people over to your side, somehow. And protesting in parks is apparently the way to do it. That's the big secret to ending racial oppression.

BLM shouldn't protest in parks because sometimes I want to take my kids there to play. If there's too many people in the park, then that is a major inconvenience to me. I mean, I got my kids ready, they were excited to go play, and now what do I do?

They should protest, individually, from their yards and porches. That way nobody is inconvenienced and I don't have to think about it.

 

[GurgleBot20]

They should protest, individually, from their yards and porches. That way nobody is inconvenienced and I don't have to think about it.

The hell is wrong with you? Think of my property values!

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

Everyone get into the free speech zone.

 

[Chie Satonaka]

BLM shouldn't protest in parks because sometimes I want to take my kids there to play. If there's too many people in the park, then that is a major inconvenience to me. I mean, I got my kids ready, they were excited to go play, and now what do I do?

They should protest, individually, from their yards and porches. That way nobody is inconvenienced and I don't have to think about it.

BLM shouldn't protest in neighborhoods, because then there's an issue of noise. What, am I supposed to hear a bunch of yelling and screaming from some jerk on a megaphone all day? Yelling about violence against police? I'll pass.

They need to go out into a forest someplace.

 

[kcp12304]

Ok lets get back to that point then and I think we can find some common ground there. Nazis are shit...end of story. They shouldn't even be allowed to congregate in a perfect world but the first amendment has to go both ways. That's why the ACLU supports racists and protesters equally. They shouldn't get passes but they also don't bother to protest where most people are inconvenienced so therefore they get a pass (sometimes literally, because muh permit). If BLM protested in parks, they'd probably get a pass too. Instead they try to make more of an impact and they block major roadways. Is there a racial component to this, absolutely but it's exasperated by the people they piss off on their way home from work.

Ask yourself: Why do you even know about BLM? Why are they in the public consciousness? Why are you aware of the issue they protest about?

It's because they made noise from disruptive protest that these arguments can even happen? Otherwise they would be just another group marching in circles at the park and asking to people to sign their petition (aka forgettable).

 

[Late Flag]

BLM shouldn't protest in parks because sometimes I want to take my kids there to play. If there's too many people in the park, then that is a major inconvenience to me. I mean, I got my kids ready, they were excited to go play, and now what do I do?

They should protest, individually, from their yards and porches. That way nobody is inconvenienced and I don't have to think about it.

I get the point, but the argument doesn't work. Parks are public places, and protesters have just as a right to that space as I do. Roads and highways, not so much. Those are spaces that have been deliberately removed from general use and set aside specifically for transportation.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

I get the point, but the argument doesn't work. Parks are public places, and protesters have just as a right to that space as I do. Roads and highways, not so much. Those are spaces that have been deliberately removed from general use and set aside specifically for transportation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protest_permit

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

Are we as furious about the Women's March on January 21 that was the largest protest in American history?

 

[Fenderputty]

Race threads go mad a hell of a lot lately.

Should have been the first two replies in the thread and nothing more ...

 

[Skilletor]

I get the point, but the argument doesn't work. Parks are public places, and protesters have just as a right to that space as I do. Roads and highways, not so much. Those are spaces that have been deliberately removed from general use and set aside specifically for transportation.

My argument is that you care more about personal inconveniences than the plight of people that look like me in america. I don't give a damn how you try to justify your apathy.

 

[Messofanego]

I get the point, but the argument doesn't work. Parks are public places, and protesters have just as a right to that space as I do. Roads and highways, not so much. Those are spaces that have been deliberately removed from general use and set aside specifically for transportation.

Roads and highways are also public.