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[Socivol]

Which reasoning and which motivations? When I got to the end, all I knew was that, that particular person was apparently the villain, and that there was some story there that simply...wasn't there.

Then you didn't pay attention. Ardyn was originally the Chosen King he had the power to heal those that were inflicted with the Starsourge by absorbing the daemons into himself. He did this and saved the world but because he did this the Astrals and the Crystal said he wasn't pure enough to become king OR to be able to go to the afterlife. Someone else took over the throne and made the people hate him and removed him from history.

He wanted to:
a) Destroy the Crystal
b) Get revenge on the Astrals
c) Destroy the Line of Lucis

The empire "killed" some of the astrals, the crystal was destroyed after Noctis absorbed all of the power into the ring of the Lucii, the line of Lucis was destroyed because Noctis had to sacrifice himself. The cherry on top was Ardyn was finally able to go to the afterlife.

This was explained in Chapter 13 but also when you get to the Citadel there is a line about Ardyn belonging in one of the paintings and him becoming the darkness from the prophecy.

 

[F0rneus]

Then you didn't pay attention. Ardyn was originally the Chosen King he had the power to heal those that were inflicted with the Starsourge by absorbing the daemons into himself. He did this and saved the world but because he did this the Astrals and the Crystal said he wasn't pure enough to become king OR to be able to go to the afterlife. Someone else took over the throne and made the people hate him and removed him from history.

He wanted to:
a) Destroy the Crystal
b) Get revenge on the Astrals
c) Destroy the Line of Lucis

The empire "killed" some of the astrals, the crystal was destroyed after Noctis absorbed all of the power into the ring of the Lucii, the line of Lucis was destroyed because Noctis had to sacrifice himself. The cherry on top was Ardyn was finally able to go to the afterlife.

And where was this in the game? That sounds good. But it just wasn't part of the story. Sorry but liking the "idea" behind a character isn't the same as liking how they were done in the game. Seems like FFXV's actual story is lore you have to read outside the game itself. And that is NOT good.

 

[Socivol]

And where was this in the game? That sounds good. But it just wasn't part of the story. Sorry but liking the "idea" behind a character isn't the same as liking how they were done in the game.

This was all in the game if you actually paid attention. All of that except the Astrals part was explicitly spelled out by the game. The part with the astrals was also pretty obvious if you paid attention to the empire showing up to kill Titan and Leviathan and it's outright stated they killed Shiva.

 

[ethomaz]

Did you fall asleep during chapter 13? I wouldn't blame you, but that was exposition city for Ardyn and his story.

There is no backstory in Chapter 13... c'mon.

Then you didn't pay attention. Ardyn was originally the Chosen King he had the power to heal those that were inflicted with the Starsourge by absorbing the daemons into himself. He did this and saved the world but because he did this the Astrals and the Crystal said he wasn't pure enough to become king OR to be able to go to the afterlife. Someone else took over the throne and made the people hate him and removed him from history.

He wanted to:
a) Destroy the Crystal
b) Get revenge on the Astrals
c) Destroy the Line of Lucis

The empire "killed" some of the astrals, the crystal was destroyed after Noctis absorbed all of the power into the ring of the Lucii, the line of Lucis was destroyed because Noctis had to sacrifice himself. The cherry on top was Ardyn was finally able to go to the afterlife.

This was explained in Chapter 13 but also when you get to the Citadel there is a line about Ardyn belonging in one of the paintings and him becoming the darkness from the prophecy.

You probably read that in some place because the main quest line didn't tell you nothing about that.

That is exactly why FFXV barely has a story.

This was all in the game if you actually paid attention. All of that except the Astrals part was explicitly spelled out by the game. The part with the astrals was also pretty obvious if you paid attention to the empire showing up to kill Titan and Leviathan and it's outright stated they killed Shiva.

It is not.

 

[TheGreatDirector]

No, I don't think so. I think it's simplistic on purpose, a direct contrast to the character driven narrative of Final Fantasy 4.

3 probably has the weakest story of them all. Nothing really connects story beats together, the main cast doesn't have any real individual personality or development, and the final boss isn't even the main antagonist of the game, nor was even really hinted at during any other time.

I still like 3 and 5 a lot though.

 

[F0rneus]

This was all in the game if you actually paid attention. All of that except the Astrals part was explicitly spelled out by the game. The part with the astrals was also pretty obvious if you paid attention to the empire showing up to kill Titan and Leviathan and it's outright stated they killed Shiva.

It really wasn't in the story at all. Reading the lore outside of the game and then slotting it yourself, in the correct places to replace the butchered storytelling, isn't the same as a great story. Or villain.

 

[Socivol]

There is no backstory in Chapter 13... c'mon.


You probably read that in some place because the main quest line didn't tell you nothing about that.

No the game isn't hard to follow at all. All of this is in the game. While I agree the story execution could have been better all of this stuff is in the game.

 

[Keym]

It really wasn't in the story at all. Reading the lore outside of the game and then slotting it, in the correct places to replace the butchered storytelling, isn't the same as a great story. Or villain.

I don't know if you're serious or not, but here you go:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DW6ABggCqvY

He also rambles on and on on the speakers while you're running around the base.

 

[Socivol]

It really wasn't in the story at all. Reading the lore outside of the game and then slotting it yourself, in the correct places to replace the butchered storytelling, isn't the same as a great story. Or villain.

This was in the game. I encourage you to play it again. It's pretty clear that you either didn't play the game or didn't pay any attention while playing the game.

 

[ethomaz]

No the game isn't hard to follow at all. All of this is in the game. While I agree the story execution could have been better all of this stuff is in the game.

So you played a different FFXV copy from everybody else.

Nice to know SE shipped the wrong one to us.

 

[SilverArrow20XX]

And where was this in the game? That sounds good. But it just wasn't part of the story. Sorry but liking the "idea" behind a character isn't the same as liking how they were done in the game. Seems like FFXV's actual story is lore you have to read outside the game itself. And that is NOT good.

I completely agree. All of this info is just from exposition in the game and isn't ever really shown. He is, in fact, relevant to the story though.

He didn't have a proper transition to main villain either I felt. It was just

Spoiler

"What is this guy up to? He's planning something obviously. Can't wait for the reveal." Then the reveal is just out of left field "The secret is I'm evil. Kills Luna."

 

[HeelPower]

XV barely has any potential.

What strong or interesting ideas/themes are you guys even talking about ?

The characters are all mere anime archtypes,thematically (even at best) its extremely poor almost to childish levels.

You can't extract a single original theme or idea even if you dig real deep.

Now that the game has very poor foundation it was all up to execution to save it.That was royally fucked up.

Lightning Returns and FF13-2 have some of the worst stories in the series as well.Pure drivel.

 

[F0rneus]

I don't know if you're serious or not, but here you go:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DW6ABggCqvY

He also rambles on and on on the speakers while you're running around the base.

And this explains...what? Where does the name

Spoiler

Izunia

come from? Why did one Astral ally with him? Can we see this happen? Why was he chosen? This is the definition of a "noodle incident". Some vague thing happened, and none of it is shown. Despite it being the most important piece of the entire story.

 

[theofficefan99]

I couldn't disagree more. Not only did Ardyn's reasoning actually make sense for once, he is the only villain in the series that made all roads lead to a victory. I wish they would have fleshed his backstory out more, but as a character he was great. Everything that happens is because Ardyn leads you down the path. He is probably the most relevant person in the game outside of Noctis. It was also nice not to know his motivations until closer to the end of the story which makes sense from the perspective of being a villain.

Only reasons Ardyn wins no matter what:

1. For some odd reason, Regis stops having sex after Noctis is born
2. For some odd reason, Noctis never has sex
3. For some odd reason, the gods arbitrarily carried out their stupid "the people have died for you, so you must die for the people" rule, even though they didn't have to

 

[PshycoNinja]

I platinumed the damn game. Which backstory? Where was it? There was some vague story reveal at the end, that had the impact of a wet fart, because we saw nothing, and it was never brought up before the literal final dialogue before the final fight.

Which reasoning and which motivations? When I got to the end, all I knew was that, that particular person was apparently the villain, and that there was some story there that simply...wasn't there.

The good ol' "true fans" schtick I see...Also how is FFXV's villain the best? They have no story or relevance at all. Easily one of the worst villains in the series.

Not what I said but nice try.

FFXV does have one of the better villains in the series. He has the motivation

Spoiler

(betrayed and ostrasized for healing people; now he wants to exact revenge on those who wronged him)

and almost everything that happens in the story happens due to his machinations. If you are ignoring or not paying any attention to any of the cutscenes or dialogue that is on you.

Edit: So after someone proves your point moot about how it isn't in the game (it is) you move goal posts. Typical.

 

[Socivol]

So you played a different FFXV copy from everybody else.

Nice to know SE shipped the wrong one to us.

Nope it's in the game that shipped. I didn't say they go into great detail with those points but the game does spell them out. I'm very vocal about the story issues in the game but to say the villain wasn't important is just not valid.

 

[Reset]

So you played a different FFXV copy from everybody else.

Nice to know SE shipped the wrong one to us.

Nice. Making up complete lies now huh? haha.
Ardyn's backstory was in the main game, it seems like you're the one who got a completely different copy from everyone else.

 

[theofficefan99]

This is the definition of a "noodle incident". Some vague thing happened, and none of it is shown.

FFXV fans often mistake this as the story "having potential" and stuff just "not being shown/explained." The thing is, they don't have anything to explain. You think XV's writing was well thought-out? With the interaction between the two main characters being via a notebook carried by a magical teleporting dog that doesn't bother teleporting Luna or the ring itself?

 

[Socivol]

And this explains...what? Where does the name

Spoiler

Izunia

come from? Why did one Astral ally with him? Can we see this happen? Why was he chosen? This is the definition of a "noodle incident". Some vague thing happened, and none of it is shown. Despite it being the most important piece of the entire story.

Just because it wasn't shown (which is a criticism I share with you!) doesn't mean the game didn't explain his motivations when it clearly did.

 

[F0rneus]

Not what I said but nice try.

FFXV does have one of the better villains in the series. He has the motivation

Spoiler

(betrayed and ostrasized for healing people; now he wants to exact revenge on those who wronged him)

and almost everything that happens in the story happens due to his machinations. If you are ignoring or not paying any attention to any of the cutscenes or dialogue that is on you.

And yet we see nothing of that in the actual game. I love tragic monster villains. I love my villains to be good people driven to horrible things by fate. I love the idea behind FFXV's villain. But he's an empty bubble. All of what you say, is not in the game. At all. We don't see it. Or feel it. It's barely alluded to. Done well it could have been a new Sephiroth. What they gave us, was below Garland from FF1 tier.

 

[SilverArrow20XX]

So you played a different FFXV copy from everybody else.

Nice to know SE shipped the wrong one to us.

https://youtu.be/Gw2WR8DZr8I?t=28
https://youtu.be/4mXDFsIgte4?t=143

It is factually in the game.

 

[ethomaz]

https://youtu.be/Gw2WR8DZr8I?t=28
https://youtu.be/4mXDFsIgte4?t=143

It is factually in the game.

That is exactly what I'm saying... there is barely backstory here... just throw some stuff over you at the end of the game to the player fill up the story by itself.

These two videos does nothing to fill Ardyn's backstory.

But maybe you will say I did not pay attention to something that is not there lol

 

[Poltergust]

I have no idea why anyone is naming any FF game from IV onwards. The NES games (well, II tried but it was still very limited) barely have stories to begin with.

 

[F0rneus]

Imagine Inception. And except of showing the crazy dream sequences, you see a bunch of randoms talking about what happened.

Gaffer 1: "Inception's story was shit, there were no dream sequences and action"
Gaffer 2: "WTF, you just didn't pay attention, it's totally in there if you listened to the dialogue"

 

[Akainu]

XV has bad execution, but the story, the themes and characters in themselves weren't bad imho

What? Execution is like most of what makes a story good.

 

[PshycoNinja]

That is exactly what I'm saying... there is barely backstory here... just throw some stuff over you at the end of the game to the player fill up the story by itself.

These two videos does nothing to fill Ardyn's backstory.

But maybe you will say I did not pay attention to something that is not there lol

Wow...

Imagine Inception. And except of showing the crazy dream sequences, you see a bunch of randoms talking about what happened.

Gaffer 1: "Inception's story was shit, there were no dream sequences and action"
Gaffer 2: "WTF, you just didn't pay attention, it's totally in there if you listened to the dialogue"

So Game of Thrones sucks because they never show Robert's Rebellion and just talk about it vaguely once in a while? By your definition, every story sucks that doesn't show people how any one event in the past goes down. A character describing an event prior to a story isn't enough.

What about Kefka? What made him turn into a villain. They tell us, but never show. So clearly a bad villain.

What about Sephiroth? We hear he was this great hero yet we never see it. It's always just talked about. Clearly the worst villain.

 

[SilverArrow20XX]

That is exactly what I'm saying... there is barely backstory here... just throw some stuff over you at the end of the game to the player fill up the story by itself.

These two videos does nothing to fill Ardyn's backstory.

But maybe you will say I did not pay attention to something that is not there lol

Yeah. It's terribly done. It's just exposition. The information about him healing people by absorbing demonic energy and then being ostracized for it is all said there flat out though. He also heavily implies that Izunia was the name of the King who ostracized him.

You said none of this was in the game. It is.

 

[Socivol]

Wow...



So Game of Thrones sucks because they never show Robert's Rebellion and just talk about it vaguely once in a while? By your definition, every story sucks that doesn't show people how any one event in the past goes down. A character describing an event prior to a story isn't enough.

What about Kefka? What made him turn into a villain. They tell us, but never show. So clearly a bad villain.

What about Sephiroth? We hear he was this great hero yet we never see it. It's always just talked about. Clearly the worst villain.

These people are reaching. It's one thing to say you don't like how the story was presented (which I would agree with you there!) but to say it's not in the game, when it is and then say because you didn't see it and were only told it doesn't count is ridiculous.

 

[Omega Kirby]

SIN YU YEVON FAYTH AEON CALM THOUSAND YEARS DREAM ZANARKAND

versus

Four orphans set out on an adventure to restore light to the crystals and stop an evil warlock

I'd take the top over the bottom any day of the week.

 

[TRUE ORDER]

Even though V is not one of my favorites, I'd say no.

III on the other hand...

 

[Reset]

Yeah. It's terribly done. It's just exposition. The information about him healing people by absorbing demonic energy and then being ostracized for it is all said there flat out though. He also heavily implies that Izunia was the name of the King who ostracized him.

You said none of this was in the game. It is.

What are you talking about. It's not that I wasn't paying attention to it, that stuff is not in the game. This is a fact. You posting evidence of showing those scenes in the game doesn't change the fact that it was not in the main game.

 

[F0rneus]

What about Kefka? What made him turn into a villain. They tell us, but never show. So clearly a bad villain.

What about Sephiroth? We hear he was this great hero yet we never see it. It's always just talked about. Clearly the worst villain.

Funnily enough both Kefka and Sephiroth have cutscenes fleshing out their pasts (Kefka with the Empire/Terra, multiple Sephiroth flashbacks both true and false). See? We see things. It makes them actual characters.

 

[jiggle]

I thought ii and iii were worse
But non come close to the putrid shittiness of xv
Yuck

 

[SkyOdin]

I like V's story. For one thing, it is fast-paced and has proactive heroes who are always actually doing things. The player is always at the center of the main action, and the main villain has a lot of stage presence.

To elaborate on that last point, Exdeath was a good villain who paved the way for Kefka, Sephiroth, and Kuja. While he was a simpler villain than those, he is still a pretty well-executed villain.

FFV also had some really good emotional moments. It doesn't reach the heights of VI in that regard, but few games do. As a whole, FFV doesn't do anything terribly unique, but it doesn't make any real mistakes either. It is a game with a solid story, a likable cast, and no particular ambitions about trying anything too crazy. I would say that FFV thus has a perfectly average story, propped up by amazing gameplay and likable characters.

If I had to name a Final Fantasy with a worse story, there is plenty of material to work with. FF1 has an extremely barebones plot that still manages to have a confusing and nonsensical ending that invokes time loops and time travel shenanigans. FF XII has good dialogue writting that tries to cover up the fact that the main characters have very little role in the actual main story and even less agency of their own. Final Fantasy XIII's plot consists of the main characters just wandering aimlessly and philosophizing until a deus ex machina saves them from their fate at the last second.

Heck, I am a big fan of FFIV, but even I realize that its plot is a garbled mess full of nonsensical twists and plot holes. For example, how did Rosa end up in Kaipo before Cecil did when she was chasing after Cecil?

 

[Piers]

5 is a final fantasy with anime tropes but its enjoyable

No wonder it’s Japan’s favorite

 

[1upsuper]

I can only speak for I-VI but I think V has a better story than III.

 

[King_Moc]

I have no idea why anyone is naming any FF game from IV onwards. The NES games (well, II tried but it was still very limited) barely have stories to begin with.

100% agree. No idea what people are talking about on that one. 6 is the first one with a really fleshed out story.

 

[sotojuan]

100% agree. No idea what people are talking about on that one. 6 is the first one with a really fleshed out story.

It's a little unfair to say FFI has a "bad" story because it's not trying to tell a story at all - it's just trying to be a role playing game in the style of Dragon Quest and Dungeons and Dragons.

While objectively it may have the "worst" story, as a player you are more insulted when the game thinks it has a good story to tell (long cutscenes, lot of emphasis on narration and characterization) but it doesn't than when the game is just the game.

 

[SkyOdin]

Wow...



So Game of Thrones sucks because they never show Robert's Rebellion and just talk about it vaguely once in a while? By your definition, every story sucks that doesn't show people how any one event in the past goes down. A character describing an event prior to a story isn't enough.

What about Kefka? What made him turn into a villain. They tell us, but never show. So clearly a bad villain.

What about Sephiroth? We hear he was this great hero yet we never see it. It's always just talked about. Clearly the worst villain.

Those are bad examples.

For example, we do see Sephiroth in action during the Nibelheim flashback. The player gets to bring him into random battles and watch him destroy parties of mid-level monsters with single attacks. The game uses gameplay to show off the power he possessed that caused so many people to idolize him. The game then dives pretty deep into his psychology and what leads him to go insane.

Kefka is also a case where the player is present for his big moment. For the first half of the game, Kefka is just the lackey of the Emperor and a recurring foil for the heroes. But then he betrays Geshtahl and destroys the world. All of the biggest moments of Kefka's villainy happen onscreen with the heroes present. That presence alone makes him an excellent villain that doesn't really require any further elaboration.

If people have questions about why a certain character is the villain, it is because the game in question failed to sell them on hating the villain. Backstory or details are less important than the player's desire to see a villain get punched in the face.

 

[Toth]

Hmmm I think FF V has a ton of charm and Galuf is great but yes, the story is a bit mundane compared to the more epic titles between it (and calling FFIV trope is unfair since the game had one of the most robust storylines when it as released in 1991).

XV has too many epic story pieces to be considered 'weak'. Under realized yes, but probably not for long.

VIII, while being of one my favorite games ever, does suffer from a story that never reached the levels it could have.

 

[tapedeck]

XV

No lies detected.

I would say V is second worst story wise tho. VIII is really bad too.

 

[theofficefan99]

XV has too many epic story pieces to be considered 'weak'. Under realized yes, but probably not for long.

I don't agree with this at all. Everything in XV pales in comparison to pretty much all FF's IV and up. There are barely any eventful moments to speak of. Most cutscenes have little to no cinematography, game has extremely little CGI, it just doesn't feel eventful or "epic" at all. Nothing memorable happens in Ch. 1-3. Chapter 4 is Titan but there was nothing exciting or eventful at all about it. Horrid "boss fight" with bad in-game cutscenes. Nothing memorable happens in Ch. 5-8. Chapter 9 has Leviathan, but again it is nothing more than a horrid "boss fight" and bad in-game cutscenes. Only notable moment is the end cutscene of the chapter. Ch. 10, nothing memorable. Chapters 11-12 are like 20-30 minutes of relatively cool train action. Ch. 13, well, lol. Chapter 14 is pretty much the most quiet finale in the series, really nothing remotely "epic" about it at all, except maybe the penultimate boss, kind of? Still pales in comparison to the rest of the series.

 

[PshycoNinja]

Those are bad examples.

For example, we do see Sephiroth in action during the Nibelheim flashback. The player gets to bring him into random battles and watch him destroy parties of mid-level monsters with single attacks. The game uses gameplay to show off the power he possessed that caused so many people to idolize him. The game then dives pretty deep into his psychology and what leads him to go insane.

Kefka is also a case where the player is present for his big moment. For the first half of the game, Kefka is just the lackey of the Emperor and a recurring foil for the heroes. But then he betrays Geshtahl and destroys the world. All of the biggest moments of Kefka's villainy happen onscreen with the heroes present. That presence alone makes him an excellent villain that doesn't really require any further elaboration.

For Kefka, NPCs constantly talk about this great knight and how he went insane. We never see how or why he went insane. He just did.

If people have questions about why a certain character is the villain, it is because the game in question failed to sell them on hating the villain. Backstory or details are less important than the player's desire to see a villain get punched in the face.

No one questions why

Spoiler

Ardyn

is the villain of FFXV. And a majority of people like how it ends due to him.

 

[Poltergust]

It's a little unfair to say FFI has a "bad" story because it's not trying to tell a story at all - it's just trying to be a role playing game in the style of Dragon Quest and Dungeons and Dragons.

While objectively it may have the "worst" story, as a player you are more insulted when the game thinks it has a good story to tell (long cutscenes, lot of emphasis on narration and characterization) but it doesn't than when the game is just the game.

The OP isn't asking us which story we felt the most insulted by, though. When I think of the word "weak", I think of the amount of effort put into doing something. I & III basically had no effort into telling a story when judging a game based on that.

Sure, you can think that the stories of VIII, X, XIII, or whatever are bad, but those stories needed to, you know, exist before you could even have an opinion on them. I literally can't have an opinion on I & III's stories because they're simply not there; I can only comment on the absence of them.

 

[encephalon]

It's better than XV!

 

[Eusis]

You'd really like DQ games, Jusis.

I HAVE consistently played through them since 2005 and the only ones I haven't beaten are VII (got most of the way through on PS1) and X (uhh, it's an MMO not translated to English.)

 

[Kaisos]

Lightning Returns and FF13-2 have some of the worst stories in the series as well.Pure drivel.

Hey now, the stories as a whole might be pretty over-the-top but they have a lot of good moments in sidequests and the like. Certainly more than FFXV has with its forgettable NPCs named stuff like "Dave".

SIN YU YEVON FAYTH AEON CALM THOUSAND YEARS DREAM ZANARKAND

All of this is explained in a lot of detail and much earlier on than plot elements like, say, XV's Starscourge...

It's not fair to call FFX a "clusterfuck story" when all it's actually trying to do is construct a coherent setting. If everything about Sin, the Yevon religion, fayths, etc was crammed into the last quarter of the game, sure, but everything is set up really early if you're actually listening to the characters.

 

[Wilsongt]

Not in a world in which 10, 13, and 15 exist.

10?

No.

13.

Yes.

 

[jrush64]

Final Fantasy X bad story? lol. Are you serious? That game has an excellent story with great world building and pacing. The story presentation is also good too with the way things happen in the game.

I'd say 13 has a bad story. 15 had potential but execution was just poor.

 

[Watcher of the Skies]

I and III are the worst story wise, V has Galuf one of the most badass characters.