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[The Last One]

For those who don't know, Geek Critique is a (awesome) gaming essayist. At least this is the way I see it...

To contextualize, he's being doing a video series where he scrutinize every Metroid game (I highly recommend his Super Metroid video), and even though I have some disagreements with him about the first Prime (GOAT game, imho), I can get behind some of his arguments. Prime isn't perfect, after all.

Well, his last video was about Echoes, and it sums up pretty much everything I've always said about the game, but never had the talent to put into words.

Here is the link: https://youtu.be/hGiTTZbnUoc

At the end, he expresses his desire to get people to talk about the game, as he found himself liking Echoes way more than he anticipated.

And since I also think Echoes is criminally overlooked, I decided to make this thread to... well, get people to talk about the game, since it's one of the best games of that generation.

 

[NotLiquid]

In spite of the things people find frustratinf about it, Echoes has become my favorite game in the Metroid series over time. It's the game that has the most memorable original locations, bosses and I love its narrative and world building. I also love how hard as nails it is.

TGC is a pretty good channel so I'll give this a watch.

 

[TheSpaceBetween]

And since I also think Echoes is criminally overlooked

Not by GAF it isn't. Many on here prefer it vastly to Corruption and some even more than Prime.

Peronally, I love it, even though overall I would rank it last in the trilogy. The Temple Grounds are probably the weakest area in the entire series, and the key hunt at the end is absolutely Godawful. Other than that, the game is sheer brilliance. Sanctuary Fortress is the best location in the Prime series, and perhaps the best large scale 3D level ever created, and I'm not exaggerating.

 

[The Xtortionist]

Echoes is incredible. I think the level design overreaches a bit in spots with the amount of mindbending portal hopping required, but there's no doubt that it stomps the original Prime in areas like challenge, overall level design, atmosphere, and boss fights. Getting the Light Suit is ridiculously empowering, Quadraxis is one of gaming's best boss fights (in an FPS, no less), and Sanctuary Fortress is one of the human race's crowning achievements. Wouldn't be surprised if Retro hired some NASA scientists to design those areas. What a game.

 

[Alex_Mexico]

In spite of the things people find frustratinf about it, Echoes has become my favorite game in the Metroid series over time. It's the game that has the most memorable original locations, bosses and I love its narrative and world building. I also love how hard as nails it is.

TGC is a pretty good channel so I'll give this a watch.

In light Aether maybe. But I couldn't tell you how one part of Dark Aether looks in comparison with other. My biggest problem with Prime 2 is that half the game (the Dark world) all looks boring, drab, bland, and samey. It's all shades of black and purple.

Oh and the music sucks ass when inside the dark world too.

I hate Prime 2 and I love Prime 1 and 3. Jut thinking about the intertwined parallel worlds in Echoes makes me squirm in disgust.

 

[AuthenticM]

Echoes is the best Metroid game.

 

[Opa-Pa]

I got this guy's channel suggested after I finished Return of Samus and since then I've watched all of his Metroid videos, it's been pretty interesting to see them from the perspective of a newcomer, even when I disagree with him. I even finished them all literally a day before he released this one, haha.

I'll watch it later and share my thoughts. It's interesting that he seems to like it because I don't have many positive memories of this game but recently I've felt that I'm not seeing its brilliance.

 

[blu]

Greatest game in an iconic series. The epitome of Prime.

 

[Athreous]

Game was great, but that stupid (imo) wii controllers made me lost interest in most of wii games =/

 

[Evil Monkey DTT]

This is more of a comment on his last video but I think he captured my feels well for why I didn't care for prime when it came out. I didn't understand the series and it's a bad starting point even if it is an amazing game. Now that I'm older the metroid series are very high in my favorites and the entire prime trilogy really is amazing. Echoes is such a brilliant game all around, retro deserves all the credit they've earned.

Oh and Nintendo please put the trilogy on switch before 4 comes out, thank ya kindly!

 

[Kangi]

My favorite Prime, and favorite Metroid period. Greatly improved scanning, the best set of upgrades in a Metroid game (and not just because the suits are amazing), the best "collectible hunt" in a Metroid game (no relying on an X-Ray Visor), great locations and music, a story divorced from normal Metroid fare, and did I mention Sanctuary Fortress? Because Sanctuary Fortress.

I can see disdain for it from enemies being super bullet sponge-y but Trilogy's easy mode can fix that right up.

 

[Kayhan]

Echoes is the best Metroid game.

Nah.

OG Metroid Prime 4lyfe

 

[Jezan]

Echoes took the "weak character because strongest one man army around" gameplay element and multiplied it by 100000.

All Metroid games have this element, but having to traverse Dark Aether while taking damage and having to run from cover to cover was awesome and scary, and after a while you can just stand in the dark and shoot your way through hordes of enemies without being in danger felt like the best development for Samus.

I can't really choose which Prime is my favorite, Prime was exploring 3d Metroid for the first time, while Echos had a more believable world and Corruption expanded on the Federation (in a good way, unlike those other disgraces).

 

[parkinho]

Echoes is the best Metroid game.

This is my opinion as well, ranking slightly higher than the original Prime and Super. In fact, I would place it in my all-time top 3 games.

I want to replay the entire trilogy soon, but I still think (hope?) that we'll see a Switch port in anticipation of the fourth game.

 

[Cpt Lmao]

Rewatching this video, I for the life of me don't know how I got through this game as a kid. I would have been 12 years old, WHAT THE FUCK.

 

[SirNinja]

Love Echoes. The game was the Majora's Mask of the series, taking the foundation of its landmark predecessor and using it to create something far darker, more challenging, better presented, and even more graphically/technically impressive. It's usually the game I'll go back to when I boot up Prime Trilogy.

 

[ahoyhoy]

A major let down compared to the original but still a good game.

Didn't care for the introduction of dialogue and the cutscenes and the world itself/level design felt kind of like a mess comparatively.

 

[Toa TAK]

I fucking loved the bosses of Prime 2.

 

[Jojo Leir]

Prime 2 Echoes is a badass game for badass people. It isn't often a game has the courage to be so demanding of the player.

 

[Refreshment.01]

In light Aether maybe. But I couldn't tell you how one part of Dark Aether looks in comparison with other. My biggest problem with Prime 2 is that half the game (the Dark world) all looks boring, drab, bland, and samey. It's all shades of black and purple.

Oh and the music sucks ass when inside the dark world too.

I hate Prime 2 and I love Prime 1 and 3. Jut thinking about the intertwined parallel worlds in Echoes makes me squirm in disgust.

But that's by design.. so mission succesful i guess?

i' ve been saying it since the first Prime. Mandatory Key hunts for game progression have no place in Metroid. i give credit to Corruption for at least making these "keys" useful and with a purpose in some way, instead of an arbitrary lock.

Game was great, but that stupid (imo) wii controllers made me lost interest in most of wii games =/

The controls that let you point with exact precision and enhanced inmersion. Why?

It is Retro's fault that they somewhat dropped the ball implementing weapon and visor selection in a not so optimal way.

On topic: i don't know if i should give a click. i think i saw some of his previous videos and some things i don't agree. The problem is you can't actually have a debate with the person, so it kinds of turns my intersting off.

 

[7threst]

I really prefer Echoes above all Prime-games. They are all very good, but Echoes has this weird depressive atmosphere that somehow fits the Metroid-series so much. It's dark and bleak, and it's a really hard game, but it really captures the Metroid-experience for me.

 

[sixteen-bit]

I watched the video a little while ago and MP2E looks like a cool game. Sad I missed out on it.

 

[correojon]

Echoes is my favorite Prime game and I truly believe Sanctuary Fortress to be the best level in ANY game ever. It has everything: atmosphere, music, lore, story, enemies, combat, puzzles, boss fights...and everything is at an incredibly high level of quality and complexity. It's an achievement in level design that has yet found no rival, any contestant I can think of feels too simple and incomplete in comparison.

 

[-shadow-]

"You can fast travel between temples!"

Wait, WHAT!?

 

[Nocturnowl]

I was watching this when I first saw the thread, timely!

Coming off his vid on prime 1 I was happy to see this entry resonated with him a lot more.
And in a lot of ways, prime 2 is arguably the best of the trilogy.

 

[KayMote]

Funnily enough KingK - another video essayist and in-depth reviewer - JUST published an interesting video about Prime 3.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Kn7bISZLPw&feature=push-u&attr_tag=eTJBCpRJaLhzQxIq-6

Edit: Never mind, he took the video down because of sound issues, but it will be up tonight again apparently.

 

[Toxi]

Prime 2 is a game that has wormed its way into my heart. The atmosphere of Aether is so strange and melancholy, yet incredibly inviting. There's nothing in video games really like it.

And mechanically, I feel Prime 2 is the strongest of the trilogy by far. It's where Retro perfected their boss and puzzle design.

At this point, Metroid Prime 2 Echoes might not just be my favorite Metroid game, but my favorite game period.

"You can fast travel between temples!"

Wait, WHAT!?

Ride the light!

 

[guyssorry]

I'm glad the author liked the game way more than expected. I think Echoes is a masterpiece in atmosphere and parallel-world design. It has a nice challenge and some of the best areas i've ever experienced in games (Torvus Bog, the Submerged Temple, etc.). Also, it has some incredible boss fights.

Extremely underrated game (and, yes, I am aware that it has > 90 on metacritic [I think]), but I do think it suffers from the "2nd 3D entry in an acclaimed series is looked down upon for being different" syndrome, kinda like Majora's Mask, FF8, Sons of Liberty, and some other games that I cannot think about right now.

 

[Brewster123]

I agree with pretty much all of his points... The game is fairly slow and boring at first, but it becomes outstanding after Agon. Also, Quadraxis is easily the best fight in the series.

 

[Dremorak]

Such a shitty game. 1 and 3 are streets ahead in every way.

 

[Silvergun-Blue]

The biggest challenge facing Echoes, was following on from the original Prime. I personally prefer the original, but I consider Echoes to a worthy sequel and neither an up or downgrade.

And yeah, Quadraxis is one of the best boss fights in gaming.

 

[Azure J]

Still the best Prime tbqh. I still remember engaging regularly in discussions about the game in the past and I still hold the beliefs I did then even now. It's pretty interesting to see people come back around on it after a decade and change though.

 

[Servbot24]

*checks channel*

"The FATAL FLAW of Metroid Prime!"

Hey screw you buddy!

 

[-shadow-]

My problem with the game is that the first half of the game just drags like crazy, I absolutely freaking love the second half in the Torvus Bog and the hightech city, but everything before that is a complete drag. Couple that with the dark would making it all feel twice as long and I just can't really replay the game honestly. And don't even get me started on those nine keys at the end, talk about some bullshit artificial padding.

 

[Toxi]

The one point I completely disagree with in the video is the music.

Prime 2's soundtrack is fucking incredible.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8PE27tYaSco

 

[rockmanjoe]

Echoes is the best game in the franchise. The environments, the puzzles, the bosses. And that ending with Samus waving goodbye. SO good.

I need to replay it in Dolphin.

 

[Toxi]

Echoes is the best game in the franchise. The environments, the puzzles, the bosses. And that ending with Samus waving goodbye. SO good.

I need to replay it in Dolphin.

 

[fireflame]

I started playing trilogy and after beating Prime i am about to star Echoes, any advice? I have read it is by far the hardest.

 

[TheDinoman]

I couldn't get very far into it (Meanwhile I played through Prime 1 two times in a row), but I can see why people really love it. It was, for me, just a bit too bleak and obtuse to get really into.

I've been a fan of Josh Wallen's work for awhile now and I'm happy to see him get more recognition. His Metroid videos have gained him a lot more views and attention, but he's done similar videos/analyses on series such as Donkey Kong Country and Sonic The Hedgehog. If you're a fan of those franchises, I'd really implore you to give them a watch some time.

His recent Prime videos are actually apart of the "Retro Studios season" he's worked on for the past few months, and it covers all of their titles (MPT + the two modern Donkey Kong Country games). He actually has finished all of the reviews and you can get access to them early if you support his Patreon account. If not, he's uploading them weekly to Youtube for free. Last week he put up his Prime 1 review and yesterday he put up the Prime 2 review. The Prime 3 review will come out next week, and the reviews for Donkey Kong Country Returns and Tropical Freeze will follow in the coming weeks.

 

[Kangi]

I started playing trilogy and after beating Prime i am about to star Echoes, any advice? I have read it is by far the hardest.

Play it on easy if bullet sponges aren't your style, or if you're just intimidated by the difficulty. It doesn't lose much of any of what makes it great in the process.

 

[Azelover]

Game was great, but that stupid (imo) wii controllers made me lost interest in most of wii games =/

Prime 2 was a Gamecube game.

 

[FiveSide]

Many on here prefer it vastly to Corruption and some even more than Prime.

Put me in that "some" category

Prime is a great game, but it felt largely like a 1:1 adaptation of Super Metroid into an FPS-adventure format. Super Metroid is one of the best games ever made, so that's not a bad thing - it's just that Prime didn't bring much new to the table other than the 3D environments, and the scanning (which I didn't particularly care for).

Echoes, on the other hand, felt like it pushed the formula much harder in new directions. It felt like a much bolder take on Metroid in 3D, not bound by the specific progression and puzzle-solving template established in Super. Some of the more experimental elements are hit or miss, but as an overall package it's just an awesome and tense experience.

 

[fabricated backlash]

*checks channel*

"The FATAL FLAW of Metroid Prime!"

Hey screw you buddy!

Click bait shit titles is what sells on Youtube.

 

[1upsuper]

Interesting. Prime 1 and 2 didn't grab me when I tried them years ago but I'd like to give them another shot. Should I use my GCN discs or get Trilogy on Wii U VC? I don't have a Wii U GCN controller adapter if that makes a difference.

 

[LordKasual]

I dislike how people disliked this game

it was everything i loved about the Prime series. The lore, the planet, the suits, the weapons...

All 100% unique and confident. No SNES-era pandering.

I will forever adore Retro Studios for being able to actually take Metroid move forward with it, unlike Nintendo apparently

 

[Ritzboof]

i liked corruption the most, tbh. it felt the most like super metroid to me, and did away with some of the meh aspects of the first two games while improving vastly on the mostly non-linear progression. it alienates some people, especially with the emphasis on characters and junk and all the flying around, and there isnt the same kinda mystery and immersion that you get from prime, but imo its the best in the trilogy from a gameplay standpoint

i feel like they all have their pros and cons. prime was an amazing game, and the world building was fantastic, but it was kinda linear, it never gave me the same sense of depth and not belonging where i am, and there were some other small issues, like weapons becoming useless whenever you get a new one

echoes is far and away better in terns of pretty much every gameplay aspect, but i didnt like the world building as much, there were a good amount of useless upgrades, and i would regularly hit a frustrating snag where the game expects me to remember a random door on the other side of the game, or something that looked like an optional secret i could visit later. i liked it better than prime 1, for the most part

corruption is my fav, like i said it felt the most like super metroid, i loved the level design a lot more and they did away with all the extra weapons and junk and just made your upgrades stack. i also personally liked the interaction and stuff; it felt a little bit like half life, it was nice. i didnt like how they handled the space pirates and the phazon, though. they were massive and mysterious forces in the past, but in corruption, you just went straight to them and fucked them up like they were nothing

 

[Big Nikus]

I don't have fond memories of Prime 2... The light world was great but the dark world was frustrating shit and just not a good location.

 

[The Last One]

I couldn't get very far into it (Meanwhile I played through Prime 1 two times in a row), but I can see why people really love it. It was, for me, just a bit too bleak and obtuse to get really into.

I've been a fan of Josh Wallen's work for awhile now and I'm happy to see him get more recognition. His Metroid videos have gained him a lot more views and attention, but he's done similar videos/analyses on series such as Donkey Kong Country and Sonic The Hedgehog. If you're a fan of those franchises, I'd really implore you to give them a watch some time.

His recent Prime videos are actually apart of the "Retro Studios season" he's worked on for the past few months, and it covers all of their titles (MPT + the two modern Donkey Kong Country games). He actually has finished all of the reviews and you can get access to them early if you support his Patreon account. If not, he's uploading them weekly to Youtube for free. Last week he put up his Prime 1 review and yesterday he put up the Prime 2 review. The Prime 3 review will come out next week, and the reviews for Donkey Kong Country Returns and Tropical Freeze will follow in the coming weeks.

Awesome! I was digging through his channel looking for the DK games. Good to know he will put up the Retro series on YouTube.

 

[Toxi]

I dislike how people disliked this game

it was everything i loved about the Prime series. The lore, the planet, the suits, the weapons...

All 100% unique and confident. No SNES-era pandering.

I will forever adore Retro Studios for being able to actually take Metroid move forward with it, unlike Nintendo apparently

That's a big thing about Echoes: In a series that has been constantly calling back to previous entries since Super Metroid, Echoes was the first Metroid game that felt like it was actually staking out a new direction.

SAMUS RETURNS ENDING SPOILERS

Spoiler

With the addition of Ridley to the story of Metroid 2, Echoes is now the only non-spinoff part of the timeline where Ridley doesn't appear. I feel like that's a strong statement to how willing Echoes was to forge its own path.

 

[Travo]

Those bosses were super hard. Too hard for my taste. Everything else is top notch though.