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Persona 5 came out in the west six months ago. How do you feel about it now?
- Thread starter Dantis
- Start date
donutzsick
Member
its ok. not bad but not stand out. i enjoyed it but its not going to be in my top 5 this year and possibly not even top 10
It was my first Persona game and it consumed close to 100 hours of my life. I loved the dungeons and social aspects, and the overall style of the game was phenomenal. The combat was just as strong and addicting as the best SMT games I've played, but with the added bonus of seeing all of my favorite demon-bros in HD.
That said, on retrospect I have a lot less love for it than I did during those weeks... Mainly because the story feels like a wasted opportunity. I think it takes a nosedive after the first few hours, in which the writers actually seem to be trying to craft a more grounded and serious narrative. After an incredibly tense and dark buildup to the confrontation with Kamoshida, the story devolves into anime cliches and character moments that undermine the character development that came before it. It never becomes outright bad, although a certain segment and its accompanying dungeon near the middle comes dangerously close, but it never reaches the promise of those first few hours from a narrative standpoint. It finishes pretty strong and the final confrontation is legitimately great, however.
Playing Yakuza 0 afterwards - a game similarly rooted in Japanese culture that maintains a strong narrative throughout and pulls off a city sim that is far more interesting and varied than anything in P5 - didn't do P5 any favors either. My opinion of P5 has fallen considerably since finishing it months ago, but I still maintain that it's a phenomenal JRPG with a lot of style and solid gameplay working in its favor. I just can't help but feel its animu tendencies worked against its themes and spoiled what could have been a legitimately good story.
That said, on retrospect I have a lot less love for it than I did during those weeks... Mainly because the story feels like a wasted opportunity. I think it takes a nosedive after the first few hours, in which the writers actually seem to be trying to craft a more grounded and serious narrative. After an incredibly tense and dark buildup to the confrontation with Kamoshida, the story devolves into anime cliches and character moments that undermine the character development that came before it. It never becomes outright bad, although a certain segment and its accompanying dungeon near the middle comes dangerously close, but it never reaches the promise of those first few hours from a narrative standpoint. It finishes pretty strong and the final confrontation is legitimately great, however.
Playing Yakuza 0 afterwards - a game similarly rooted in Japanese culture that maintains a strong narrative throughout and pulls off a city sim that is far more interesting and varied than anything in P5 - didn't do P5 any favors either. My opinion of P5 has fallen considerably since finishing it months ago, but I still maintain that it's a phenomenal JRPG with a lot of style and solid gameplay working in its favor. I just can't help but feel its animu tendencies worked against its themes and spoiled what could have been a legitimately good story.
Novel Mike
Member
As others have said not really.
Don't get me wrong, P4 has its own various issues to be sure but its better then Persona 5 in basically every way. I'll do some simple comparisons to give you an idea. I'll spoiler tag things as needed.
Story: The Persona 4 story was just well thought out and clearly planned out perfectly.
The murder mystery just makes for an incredibly interesting tale and what ultimately happens with Izanami is actually properly foreshadowed with the handshake at the beginning (the PS2 version your controller rumbles and then when she reveals what she did it does it again) and then again with the story of Izanami and Izanagi during the school trip later on. This was a story that was well thought out and told damn well near perfectly and the use of the shadows being the inner darker self of each of the main characters was so on point and not only helped to give each character life but also to give meaning behind both the Persona's and Shadows.
The Persona 5 story is just a mess though. It starts off absolutely fantastic with a genuinely great starting arc with a villain you know you have to stop and it drives the story forward but as the game continues on it really doesn't hold up as well as that first arc did. Then you get to the final arc where everything just kinda falls apart.
First off, way to many elements of the story are repeated from Persona 4, from a detective being a serial killer to a 'god' behind everything to even the damn ending where the MC has to leave and return home only change that the friends drive him back instead of him taking a train. On top of that the story is just full of plot holes that are never answered such as if Akechi was the one who killed Futaba's mother or why Joker had to turn himself in to prosecute the final palace guy despite them saying he himself confessed to his crimes. It also wastes Akechi and the surprise reveal of him being the traitor by just killing him off in the most bizarre of ways, right after the group tries to get him to join them again even though he killed Haru's dad and seems like the only person who could have killed Futaba's mom. For someone who is set up as being the 'traitor' they don't do jack shit with him and he just dies offscreen.
It's weird to because the game actually sets up a way to fill some of the plot holes, like instead of things playing out as they did what if the 7th Palace guy actually was able to stop his heart from changing by temporarily killing himself and Akechi who admits he wants to take him down in the end decides the best way to do that is to reveal the truth of everything they did. Then at the very end of the game when Joker needs to turn himself in, its to back up Akechi's admissions. [/SPOILER
Since that was a bit longer then I meant it to be lets just spitfire the rest of this.
Characters:
P4's characters are all well developed and have continuous development throughout the whole game both as individuals and as a team.
P5's characters are not all well developed. Ann has a great development arc throughout the first part of the game but then doesn't do a damn thing for the rest of the game. Haru doesn't develop at all, ect. You have some standouts like Futaba and Sojiro but its few and far between. On top of that you never really see the group bond as a team, most of the events where those things happen in P4 are instead used to advance the plot or end up getting ruined by certain characters like Ryuji and Mishima.
Dungeons:
P4's dungeons are randomized yes and certainly don't look every interesting that is absolutely true... But they are not offensively long with extended bits of backtracking and other elements that make them a slog to get through. P5's for all the unique designs and interesting locations are a slog to get through with padded out gameplay like Palace 7's mice maze and other additions that make the palaces just unfun which is a shame because they had the potential to be great and I think the first 2 are but from the 5th one on wards they just get progressively worse. P5 also still has the randomized dungeons with Mementos which is extra bland as its literally like a 50 floor P4 dungeon.
Combat:
P4's combat is okay, its pretty basic with the only big thing being changed from P3 is that you can control all of the characters now. It's not the greatest and some of the fights towards the end can drag on a long ass time with some not very challenging mechanics but its challenging to keep up with how long the fights end up going on.
P5's combat is certainly better outside of a few aspects: The first and biggest problem is that the cover mechanic outside of battles is just blatantly broken and shouldn't be a thing. It trivializes literally every normal fight in the damn game and makes combat feel more like a chore more then anything else. Then you have new additions to the game that just seem completely unnecessary like Nuke and Psi, I still have yet to see anyone try and explain WHY these elements even needed to exist. They already gave bless/curse normal damaging spells so why add another two into the mix? It just feels like something that should have been left on the cutting room floor that was just unneeded but they just left it in the game to make combat seem like it had more depth then previous games... And it does but not because of those elements.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that for as much as P5 gets right about combat changes, there are just as many oddities and problems it has as well so personally I think either is fine and this is something that should just be inherently better in P5 but its really not because of the problems I mentioned above.
Social Links:
P4's Social links are short character stories that generally have compelling characters and interesting situations. They aren't the most deep things in the world but they do adhere to the general themes of Persona 4 which is about identity and healing. Each of the various social links covers one of those themes if not both and they work extremely well because of that.
P5's 'Confidants' are pretty lackluster. I've mentioned a lot of these points before but the problem with the Confidants is that for every one of them that isn't a main character they all follow the exact same setup. Meet Person> Befriend Person> Find out Person has Trouble> Not so subtlety help them by going into mementos>
It's actually a really cool thing the first time it happens but when its repeated over and over again you just see the same pattern play out and it stops feeling interesting. I can't even remember what problems of the characters had anymore because it just all blends together and none of them have any kind of focus on a theme (actually the whole game has an issue about themes or just the lack of them).
-------------------------------
I can go more in depth but I think you get the idea. I didn't mention it above but I think part of the problem with Persona 5 is that it just didn't feel at all innovative. They worked on this game for so many years and there isn't really anything new or all that interesting about the game. Sure its got a god damn fantastic art style and just style in general but it doesn't make up for the fact that if you had told me this was a PS2/PS3 game that came out in like 2010 I'd generally believe you. That can be fine in some cases but not for a game that was delayed as long as this one was, with how hyped up this one was, with how much time was clearly put into it. I think they had a general idea on what they wanted this game to be but could never really figure out how exactly to make it work so the things that did work they kept and everything else they just reused elements from the previous games.
It's weird to because the game actually sets up a way to fill some of the plot holes, like instead of things playing out as they did what if the 7th Palace guy actually was able to stop his heart from changing by temporarily killing himself and Akechi who admits he wants to take him down in the end decides the best way to do that is to reveal the truth of everything they did. Then at the very end of the game when Joker needs to turn himself in, its to back up Akechi's admissions. [/SPOILER
Since that was a bit longer then I meant it to be lets just spitfire the rest of this.
Characters:
P4's characters are all well developed and have continuous development throughout the whole game both as individuals and as a team.
P5's characters are not all well developed. Ann has a great development arc throughout the first part of the game but then doesn't do a damn thing for the rest of the game. Haru doesn't develop at all, ect. You have some standouts like Futaba and Sojiro but its few and far between. On top of that you never really see the group bond as a team, most of the events where those things happen in P4 are instead used to advance the plot or end up getting ruined by certain characters like Ryuji and Mishima.
Dungeons:
P4's dungeons are randomized yes and certainly don't look every interesting that is absolutely true... But they are not offensively long with extended bits of backtracking and other elements that make them a slog to get through. P5's for all the unique designs and interesting locations are a slog to get through with padded out gameplay like Palace 7's mice maze and other additions that make the palaces just unfun which is a shame because they had the potential to be great and I think the first 2 are but from the 5th one on wards they just get progressively worse. P5 also still has the randomized dungeons with Mementos which is extra bland as its literally like a 50 floor P4 dungeon.
Combat:
P4's combat is okay, its pretty basic with the only big thing being changed from P3 is that you can control all of the characters now. It's not the greatest and some of the fights towards the end can drag on a long ass time with some not very challenging mechanics but its challenging to keep up with how long the fights end up going on.
P5's combat is certainly better outside of a few aspects: The first and biggest problem is that the cover mechanic outside of battles is just blatantly broken and shouldn't be a thing. It trivializes literally every normal fight in the damn game and makes combat feel more like a chore more then anything else. Then you have new additions to the game that just seem completely unnecessary like Nuke and Psi, I still have yet to see anyone try and explain WHY these elements even needed to exist. They already gave bless/curse normal damaging spells so why add another two into the mix? It just feels like something that should have been left on the cutting room floor that was just unneeded but they just left it in the game to make combat seem like it had more depth then previous games... And it does but not because of those elements.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that for as much as P5 gets right about combat changes, there are just as many oddities and problems it has as well so personally I think either is fine and this is something that should just be inherently better in P5 but its really not because of the problems I mentioned above.
Social Links:
P4's Social links are short character stories that generally have compelling characters and interesting situations. They aren't the most deep things in the world but they do adhere to the general themes of Persona 4 which is about identity and healing. Each of the various social links covers one of those themes if not both and they work extremely well because of that.
P5's 'Confidants' are pretty lackluster. I've mentioned a lot of these points before but the problem with the Confidants is that for every one of them that isn't a main character they all follow the exact same setup. Meet Person> Befriend Person> Find out Person has Trouble> Not so subtlety help them by going into mementos>
Rank 10 they find out who you are.
-------------------------------
I can go more in depth but I think you get the idea. I didn't mention it above but I think part of the problem with Persona 5 is that it just didn't feel at all innovative. They worked on this game for so many years and there isn't really anything new or all that interesting about the game. Sure its got a god damn fantastic art style and just style in general but it doesn't make up for the fact that if you had told me this was a PS2/PS3 game that came out in like 2010 I'd generally believe you. That can be fine in some cases but not for a game that was delayed as long as this one was, with how hyped up this one was, with how much time was clearly put into it. I think they had a general idea on what they wanted this game to be but could never really figure out how exactly to make it work so the things that did work they kept and everything else they just reused elements from the previous games.
GOTY ... loved every single second
Clear step up from P4 in all classes.
Game mechanics were refined to the max.
Visuals were stunning considering it was a multigen title
Story was really good
Only thing I have to problems with was the pacing and the mail discussions that kept repeating itself by the millions
Clear step up from P4 in all classes.
Game mechanics were refined to the max.
Visuals were stunning considering it was a multigen title
Story was really good
Only thing I have to problems with was the pacing and the mail discussions that kept repeating itself by the millions
SamuelSupreme
Banned
Only played the vanilla P4 but I found the cast of P4 to be overall more charming and better written.
BlueBadger
Banned
I'm trying to wrap my head around the fact that it's already been six months tbh. Where does time go?
Also, despite a few moral issues I may have had, I enjoyed the game a ton. It didn't even feel like 100 hours because I was so invested in it. Great soundtrack, gameplay, cast and story IMO.
Also, despite a few moral issues I may have had, I enjoyed the game a ton. It didn't even feel like 100 hours because I was so invested in it. Great soundtrack, gameplay, cast and story IMO.
Had some improvements over 3 and 4, namely in interface and dungeon design... but it wasn't as compelling and memorable in terms of story, characters, social links and soundtrack. The pacing was pretty weird - lots of points where nothing much happened as the plot sloooowly advanced, some dungeons that completely overstayed their welcome (cruise ship), and of course Morgana cock blocking you.
That being said, it's my second favorite game this year behind Nier Automata. And its success is a good thing for fans of traditional, high-production-value turn based rpgs.
That being said, it's my second favorite game this year behind Nier Automata. And its success is a good thing for fans of traditional, high-production-value turn based rpgs.
encephalon
Member
I don't understand complaints about dungeon length. They're supposed to be long to make up for the fact that you are meant to require multiple days to go through them.
dragonchild
Banned
I still think the post-battle victory fanfare sounds like "Tequila".
Buddy Mcpuddy
Member
I just went back to it today after a month or so off, and boy am I glad I did.
I had the day off so I spent the better part of six hours tackling 4 missions in mementos, getting my kindness stat to 4 and I unlocked a new confidant.
I forgot how much fun this game is when you slip into that rhythm.
I had the day off so I spent the better part of six hours tackling 4 missions in mementos, getting my kindness stat to 4 and I unlocked a new confidant.
I forgot how much fun this game is when you slip into that rhythm.
YankeeDonB
Member
I'm going to second basically everything Mike said above. Such a stylish game, some great set up, but then failed execution in nearly every facet of the game as the story progresses.
Also, as someone else said, playing Yakuza 0 really drew out P5's flaws for me. Pacing and writing and characterization. I know SMT is, at heart, a series of dungeon crawlers, but I think P5 would have been worlds better if they'd reduced the length and backtracking in these.
Also, as someone else said, playing Yakuza 0 really drew out P5's flaws for me. Pacing and writing and characterization. I know SMT is, at heart, a series of dungeon crawlers, but I think P5 would have been worlds better if they'd reduced the length and backtracking in these.
MysteryQuesadilla
Member
I liked making coffee and curry.
cosmicspooks
Member
I'm still working through it (I think I'm somewhere around October in game) but man I love it, and definitely more than 4. God bless Persona 4, that game rules, but like....literally every single thing about 5 connects, interests, and engages me more. The dungeons, pacing, characters, bosses, etc, etc. All fantastic.
Also I've never wanted to just be like, best friends with a video game character until oops here comes Ann, filled with too many good vibes to handle
Also I've never wanted to just be like, best friends with a video game character until oops here comes Ann, filled with too many good vibes to handle
All of this. I'm in the last dungeon and I having a hard time trying to finishing it. The mice section is terrible and honestly I don't care that much about the story anymore, and even less about the characters. Compared with 4 were I have lie down for a bit after finish it because I was so overwhelmed by feelings.
Glass Rebel
Member
Still have no desire to buy vanilla P5. Just too many interesting JRPGs out now and coming soon.
UnluckyKate
Member
we all felt this before december.
This is were the game really drags way to much. The last dungeon and true ending dungeon are way to long, WAY TOO LONG and stacked together. Pacing in the last part of the game is just wtf
SlipperyFishes
Banned
My PS4 died about 98 hours in.
I dunno what my last cloud save was before that ><
Haven't finished it yet, depends on if I get another PS4 now.
I dunno what my last cloud save was before that ><
Haven't finished it yet, depends on if I get another PS4 now.
Great game, but also kind of a one and done deal for me. Don't know if I will ever replay it since the gameplay is a little too average for me. Probably the 2nd best game I've played this year right behind NieR: Automata. Everything else this year has been pretty far behind these 2.
Nestunt
Member
Quantity certainly does not equate to Quality. But videogames are one of the most expensive hobbies to have; so I can see the consumers argument of getting a bang for your buck. Game developers and publishers know this and, sometimes, the final product loses some quality due to the diluting of the core gameplay loop with repetitive and meaningless modes and activities.
I played Persona 5 for 133 hours and 8 minutes. Thats definitely a bang. For 60 euros, there arent a lot of audiovisual products that give that amount of content to the consumer. Yet, what stood out the most from this experience was how Persona manages to keep itself fresh and varied throughout the hours. When staleness starts to naturally creep in BANG! Some immaculately-written character is introduced, or a new meaningful side activity is unlocked.
I had never played a Persona game; still, I can confidently say that Atlus and Katsura Hashino delivered a masterpiece that kills a lot of Role-playing design sacred cows.
Ok, the breaking of preconceived design structures was not the first aspect to stand out about this game (but, you notice that pretty early). The First thing is its looks and sound. What a stylish piece! The anime-look is not a convention; is an identity that oozes from the screen with such bravado that one is instantly engulfed in its rules. This artistic confidence helps a lot in establishing connections with the different characters and, by so, with the meta-narrative. A smart use of primary and secondary colors, coupled with aggressive lines in the geometry, rapidly tell you hows it going to be: Are you in for this cool as hell train ride? And if you are still on the fence, listen to this groovy jazz-rock and tell me if you dont want to go on an adventure with these cats.
After that audiovisual feast, rapidly comes the realization that you are in the presence of a very coherent game. You are introduced to the main mechanics and systems early on, and it is easy to notice that Persona 5 molds its action and pace in tandem with the effects and spectacle being presented on screen, either during the moment-to-moment combat or the activities loop you can do in the world.
Each encounter is gratifying for several reasons. First, enemy design; they are called shadows but they couldnt be more different than what we commonly conceive as a shadow. They are colorful, vibrant and varied. Varied indeed, since many of their designs are rebellious takes on creatures from our histories and mythologies. One of my favorites is Mara, from Buddhism, which is depicted as a gigantic green phallic creature, with tentacles, riding a side-cart with blades in front.
Secondly, the rhythm of the battles perfectly transmits all that previously mentioned edginess. You soon realize that instead of brute-forcing yourself to victory, by just being a level above your opponent, you should test different attack elements on a foe until you find its weakness and from that point on just exploit that. The game, being turn-based and menu driven, has some ingenious user-interface mechanics that change the typical pace of turn-based combat into a fast and stylish action, without losing its strategic core. For example, after testing your arsenal with a type of enemy and discovering its weakness, the next time you face that same type, you just have to press one button, instead of navigating menus, and your character will automatically suggest the best option, based on your previous research. If you hit its weakness, a stagger state occurs and you get an additional turn with that character and you get to choose to either exploit that weakness once again or Baton Pass to a comrade that may also exploit another weakness of that or another enemy on screen. When all are staggered, you get an additional All-out attack that uses all your team for an immense damage attack or a finisher. Over-levelled enemies that used be a grind in other RPGs, can end up as quick battles. There is a catch though: your characters are also susceptible to this weakness-memory system, which can lead to rapid Game Overs if you dont maintain your wits throughout that fast-paced dance.
Also, for people who get bored with menu-centric controls in this genre of games, I would like to reassure that you will never grow tired of the looks and snappiness of this user-interface.
Another essential component of Persona 5 and its fight against staleness, dilution and repetitiveness in long-form RPGs, is its gameplay loop.
The game works essentially on a timer. Contrary to the majority of RPGs you dont have complete freedom to tackle your main and side objectives when you want. If you are like me and hate time-attacks, timed levels or any other variation of that type of gaming, in conjunction with loving the element of open-ended storytelling of RPGs, you will adore Persona 5. What?! Yup, it works. It works great! And I would like to see this structuring implemented in many more RPGs.
The premise is that the character you role-play is on probation for a year. And throughout that calendar year you will make ~2 choices each day (for afternoon and evening). You have ~4 main activities you can spend your limited time on: Story dungeon, Interact with other characters and raise the level of your social link, Interact with places and businesses in Tokyo to raise your own social stats, and Side dungeons to get even stronger for future main battles. All these activities are somewhat mutually exclusive; so, you have to know how to prioritize, always having in mind that if you dont complete the currently active Story dungeon within the time narratively-allotted to it, Game Over occurs.
There is a consequence to all these planning and mental gymnastics: even the smallest side-activity is meaningful. Not only are you trading limited time for stats-increase, but also you cant buffer past mistakes by spending extra time, like in other RPGs. The role you are playing feels more like real life and less like a game, because its a non-pause character evolution to you and the ones around you.
Is it too overwhelming for people who buy and play videogames for escapism and, precisely, dont want to think about the realisms of scheduling and decision-making in a world with resources scarcity? I dont know. To each its own. But, in defense of Persona 5, you cant fight in real life a gigantic green phallic creature, with tentacles, riding a side-cart with blades in front by summoning your inner persona, represented by Captain Kidd, the legendary Scottish corsair, or Johanna, the first and only woman-Pope.
If all these stylistic choices dont appeal to you, either because you dont like anime or fantasy, I have one last proposal: adult, strong and nuanced socio-political writing.
All the stylish effects, redesigned mythological creatures and on-the-clock action and choices all fill-in an impressive (100+ hours) canvas where important political issues are painted and discussed. You will have conversations with your Confidants where topics like sexual harassment, work-force exploitation and money laundering are addressed with care. As well as, an active role in a narrative that questions the player what is the meaning of social reform and the best way to achieve it, with cleverly implemented twists to make you go deeper than the typical notions of good and bad, and think about human nature and the philosophical conflicts that arise from that core.
There is much more to say about Persona 5. At the same time, there isnt. You will probably come for the looks and music. You will continue playing because the systems are so refreshing. And you will be sad that it ended because of the characters and the stories.
I played Persona 5 for 133 hours and 8 minutes. Thats definitely a bang. For 60 euros, there arent a lot of audiovisual products that give that amount of content to the consumer. Yet, what stood out the most from this experience was how Persona manages to keep itself fresh and varied throughout the hours. When staleness starts to naturally creep in BANG! Some immaculately-written character is introduced, or a new meaningful side activity is unlocked.
I had never played a Persona game; still, I can confidently say that Atlus and Katsura Hashino delivered a masterpiece that kills a lot of Role-playing design sacred cows.
Ok, the breaking of preconceived design structures was not the first aspect to stand out about this game (but, you notice that pretty early). The First thing is its looks and sound. What a stylish piece! The anime-look is not a convention; is an identity that oozes from the screen with such bravado that one is instantly engulfed in its rules. This artistic confidence helps a lot in establishing connections with the different characters and, by so, with the meta-narrative. A smart use of primary and secondary colors, coupled with aggressive lines in the geometry, rapidly tell you hows it going to be: Are you in for this cool as hell train ride? And if you are still on the fence, listen to this groovy jazz-rock and tell me if you dont want to go on an adventure with these cats.
After that audiovisual feast, rapidly comes the realization that you are in the presence of a very coherent game. You are introduced to the main mechanics and systems early on, and it is easy to notice that Persona 5 molds its action and pace in tandem with the effects and spectacle being presented on screen, either during the moment-to-moment combat or the activities loop you can do in the world.
Each encounter is gratifying for several reasons. First, enemy design; they are called shadows but they couldnt be more different than what we commonly conceive as a shadow. They are colorful, vibrant and varied. Varied indeed, since many of their designs are rebellious takes on creatures from our histories and mythologies. One of my favorites is Mara, from Buddhism, which is depicted as a gigantic green phallic creature, with tentacles, riding a side-cart with blades in front.
Secondly, the rhythm of the battles perfectly transmits all that previously mentioned edginess. You soon realize that instead of brute-forcing yourself to victory, by just being a level above your opponent, you should test different attack elements on a foe until you find its weakness and from that point on just exploit that. The game, being turn-based and menu driven, has some ingenious user-interface mechanics that change the typical pace of turn-based combat into a fast and stylish action, without losing its strategic core. For example, after testing your arsenal with a type of enemy and discovering its weakness, the next time you face that same type, you just have to press one button, instead of navigating menus, and your character will automatically suggest the best option, based on your previous research. If you hit its weakness, a stagger state occurs and you get an additional turn with that character and you get to choose to either exploit that weakness once again or Baton Pass to a comrade that may also exploit another weakness of that or another enemy on screen. When all are staggered, you get an additional All-out attack that uses all your team for an immense damage attack or a finisher. Over-levelled enemies that used be a grind in other RPGs, can end up as quick battles. There is a catch though: your characters are also susceptible to this weakness-memory system, which can lead to rapid Game Overs if you dont maintain your wits throughout that fast-paced dance.
Also, for people who get bored with menu-centric controls in this genre of games, I would like to reassure that you will never grow tired of the looks and snappiness of this user-interface.
Another essential component of Persona 5 and its fight against staleness, dilution and repetitiveness in long-form RPGs, is its gameplay loop.
The game works essentially on a timer. Contrary to the majority of RPGs you dont have complete freedom to tackle your main and side objectives when you want. If you are like me and hate time-attacks, timed levels or any other variation of that type of gaming, in conjunction with loving the element of open-ended storytelling of RPGs, you will adore Persona 5. What?! Yup, it works. It works great! And I would like to see this structuring implemented in many more RPGs.
The premise is that the character you role-play is on probation for a year. And throughout that calendar year you will make ~2 choices each day (for afternoon and evening). You have ~4 main activities you can spend your limited time on: Story dungeon, Interact with other characters and raise the level of your social link, Interact with places and businesses in Tokyo to raise your own social stats, and Side dungeons to get even stronger for future main battles. All these activities are somewhat mutually exclusive; so, you have to know how to prioritize, always having in mind that if you dont complete the currently active Story dungeon within the time narratively-allotted to it, Game Over occurs.
There is a consequence to all these planning and mental gymnastics: even the smallest side-activity is meaningful. Not only are you trading limited time for stats-increase, but also you cant buffer past mistakes by spending extra time, like in other RPGs. The role you are playing feels more like real life and less like a game, because its a non-pause character evolution to you and the ones around you.
Is it too overwhelming for people who buy and play videogames for escapism and, precisely, dont want to think about the realisms of scheduling and decision-making in a world with resources scarcity? I dont know. To each its own. But, in defense of Persona 5, you cant fight in real life a gigantic green phallic creature, with tentacles, riding a side-cart with blades in front by summoning your inner persona, represented by Captain Kidd, the legendary Scottish corsair, or Johanna, the first and only woman-Pope.
If all these stylistic choices dont appeal to you, either because you dont like anime or fantasy, I have one last proposal: adult, strong and nuanced socio-political writing.
All the stylish effects, redesigned mythological creatures and on-the-clock action and choices all fill-in an impressive (100+ hours) canvas where important political issues are painted and discussed. You will have conversations with your Confidants where topics like sexual harassment, work-force exploitation and money laundering are addressed with care. As well as, an active role in a narrative that questions the player what is the meaning of social reform and the best way to achieve it, with cleverly implemented twists to make you go deeper than the typical notions of good and bad, and think about human nature and the philosophical conflicts that arise from that core.
There is much more to say about Persona 5. At the same time, there isnt. You will probably come for the looks and music. You will continue playing because the systems are so refreshing. And you will be sad that it ended because of the characters and the stories.
From the perspective of a non-Persona fan, I thought 5 was easily the best one. (EDIT: Of the Hashino Personas, haven't played the first three).
I don't know if I'll actually finish it due to the colossal length, but it's not a hard drop yet which is already a sound improvement over the previous entries.
This is the first one of the modern Personas that is actually a decent dungeon crawler and not a procedurally-generated laughingstock attached to a visual novel.
P5 is also the most stylish game I've ever played full-stop. I recommend everyone at least go through the first Palace, even if you don't like Persona or JRPGs. Just to get a feel for the UI, it's truly inspired.
I don't know if I'll actually finish it due to the colossal length, but it's not a hard drop yet which is already a sound improvement over the previous entries.
This is the first one of the modern Personas that is actually a decent dungeon crawler and not a procedurally-generated laughingstock attached to a visual novel.
P5 is also the most stylish game I've ever played full-stop. I recommend everyone at least go through the first Palace, even if you don't like Persona or JRPGs. Just to get a feel for the UI, it's truly inspired.
Moon Presence
Member
One of my favourite games ever. What a ride.
QuackkAttack
Member
I respect your opinion, but that's exactly what I love about Persona. VN plus incredibly solid Turn Based combat.
Baraka Obama
Banned
I dont know to be honest but the fact its been this long i havent beat it means that im probably losing interest in the series. I still haven't beaten SMT 4 Apocalypse either and i dont think im gonna beat it to be honest. The plots in atlus games just arent very compelling.
Glitter and Gold
Banned
It's ok
shoryukens
Member
Loved the game but some problems that I couldn't ignore.
Pacing is still horrible. Been a problem since P3 and it's just as bad here. It takes anywhere from 3-4 hours to move from "tutorial mode" to actual story telling.
Mementos is boring. All the side quest stuff really. And since this game is the easiest of the trilogy, there was no need to grind. I only went to mementos to complete a social link requirement and while I'm there I'd do all the quests I've accumulated.
Speaking of social links, they are still disappointing. It's neat that you get major upgrades from doing them; But it never feels like you get a connection with the person. No cute texts, no special dialogue from the party members you 10 ranked. It's just a checklist and back to being strangers again. This is also a problem this series has had since P3.
The party favoritism is ridiculous. Makoto is so integral to the phantom thieves that the game would straight up end after Madarame if it weren't for her. She get's so much screen time compared to the rest of the party I ask myself if she was intended to be the main character at some point. She's also the best party member so she's a must have on your team. Compared to characters like Ann or Yusuke who contribute nothing to the team and it's evident who was the favorite in P Studio's eyes.
The swerve after Palace 6 was dumb and the exposition dump we get later on is worse. Really soured me on the game.
That being said, it has the best battle system, the best fusion mechanics, the best dungeon design, and some of the best tracks Shoji Meguro has ever done.
It would probably be my GOTY if it weren't for Hallow Knight and Puyo Puyo Tetris.
EDIT: Wow, this post is now edited!
Pacing is still horrible. Been a problem since P3 and it's just as bad here. It takes anywhere from 3-4 hours to move from "tutorial mode" to actual story telling.
Mementos is boring. All the side quest stuff really. And since this game is the easiest of the trilogy, there was no need to grind. I only went to mementos to complete a social link requirement and while I'm there I'd do all the quests I've accumulated.
Speaking of social links, they are still disappointing. It's neat that you get major upgrades from doing them; But it never feels like you get a connection with the person. No cute texts, no special dialogue from the party members you 10 ranked. It's just a checklist and back to being strangers again. This is also a problem this series has had since P3.
The party favoritism is ridiculous. Makoto is so integral to the phantom thieves that the game would straight up end after Madarame if it weren't for her. She get's so much screen time compared to the rest of the party I ask myself if she was intended to be the main character at some point. She's also the best party member so she's a must have on your team. Compared to characters like Ann or Yusuke who contribute nothing to the team and it's evident who was the favorite in P Studio's eyes.
The swerve after Palace 6 was dumb and the exposition dump we get later on is worse. Really soured me on the game.
That being said, it has the best battle system, the best fusion mechanics, the best dungeon design, and some of the best tracks Shoji Meguro has ever done.
It would probably be my GOTY if it weren't for Hallow Knight and Puyo Puyo Tetris.
EDIT: Wow, this post is now edited!
Specialy story wise, worst "thriller" I ever read/played.
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Millsington
Member
It really dragged near the end and I lost interest for a couple months, finally finished it a few days ago. I was extremely sick of fighting by the end. So many fights, jesus.
I played on easy to avoid grinding, and it worked out for the most part except they put so many freaking enemies on the map that are very tough to avoid (I assume so that normal mode players have enough experience for the bosses?) that it was still a chore to get through the dungeons, and the bosses were still pretty tough even though I didn't run much. Maybe I should have played on casual? I clocked almost 90 hours on easy and skipped maybe 2-3 SLinks almost entirely.
I also didn't feel any real attachment to the main and secondary characters like I did in 4, and I actively disliked most of the male characters, compared to 4 where it was only Yosuke who I found annoying.
I'm glad I finished it, and it was OK overall, but it needed to be like 30-40 hours shorter.
I played on easy to avoid grinding, and it worked out for the most part except they put so many freaking enemies on the map that are very tough to avoid (I assume so that normal mode players have enough experience for the bosses?) that it was still a chore to get through the dungeons, and the bosses were still pretty tough even though I didn't run much. Maybe I should have played on casual? I clocked almost 90 hours on easy and skipped maybe 2-3 SLinks almost entirely.
I also didn't feel any real attachment to the main and secondary characters like I did in 4, and I actively disliked most of the male characters, compared to 4 where it was only Yosuke who I found annoying.
I'm glad I finished it, and it was OK overall, but it needed to be like 30-40 hours shorter.
Lumpy Onion
Member
Too long. WAY too long. Quit at the penultimate dungeon because I realized I no longer gave a damn what happened anymore and even the most amazing twist or ending wasnt going to save it for me. Last thing I remember was playing as a rat.
I just started it, but I'm not really out of the tutorial phase yet. I think I just started the first real dungeon.
Characters and setting seem interesting. The story actually does a pretty good job of getting you to connect with the protagonist and get you on his side. Most games would be torn apart by taking five hours to set up the story and characters, but P5 makes an interesting slow burn out of it, like the previous two games.
The presentation feels very stylish but unsurprisingly you can still feel the low budget (and the game's PS3 roots). It's still a quantum leap over the PS2 games though in terms of overall immersion, the kind we don't see enough of from JRPG developers. The behind-the-back camera and more detailed environments make for an urban Japanese experience that you can really only otherwise find in the Yakuza games.
Characters and setting seem interesting. The story actually does a pretty good job of getting you to connect with the protagonist and get you on his side. Most games would be torn apart by taking five hours to set up the story and characters, but P5 makes an interesting slow burn out of it, like the previous two games.
The presentation feels very stylish but unsurprisingly you can still feel the low budget (and the game's PS3 roots). It's still a quantum leap over the PS2 games though in terms of overall immersion, the kind we don't see enough of from JRPG developers. The behind-the-back camera and more detailed environments make for an urban Japanese experience that you can really only otherwise find in the Yakuza games.
I feel the same way about it I did pretty much the whole way through, played it on release and completed it within a few weeks.
Art design was pretty good, music was a bit of a let down but still pretty good, and the persona fusing is still fun.
Everything else sucked. I think it was a bad game. Persona 6 isn't something I'm actively looking forward to now, I need to be convinced the writers have grown before I'll start to get curious again.
Art design was pretty good, music was a bit of a let down but still pretty good, and the persona fusing is still fun.
Everything else sucked. I think it was a bad game. Persona 6 isn't something I'm actively looking forward to now, I need to be convinced the writers have grown before I'll start to get curious again.
Greedings
Member
I think it's a bad game.
The story is weak, the characters are boring, and the evil guys are just toothless and moustache twirling.
The combat is fine, but it's just standard rock paper scissors JRPG fare. Nothing to write home about. It's also about 50 hours too long.
The art direction, music and general style of the game is all great though.
The story is weak, the characters are boring, and the evil guys are just toothless and moustache twirling.
The combat is fine, but it's just standard rock paper scissors JRPG fare. Nothing to write home about. It's also about 50 hours too long.
The art direction, music and general style of the game is all great though.
Persona 5 gives me conflicting feelings.
A bit of background I consider Persona 4 to be my favorite game ever (3 is good but Tarturus was very grindy) .
Persona 5 rolls up, and is without a doubt a better game than Persona 4, almost everything has improved. The strange part is though I still consider Persona 4 higher even though 5 is better. When you get to the end of a Persona game (at least the last 3) you don't want to leave because you are leaving these game characters behind. 4's group felt like the greatest friends together, 5 felt like a group coming together to solve an issue but outside of that they are friends but have their own circles (which is completely fine).
In the end with all the gems coming out this year it's still my GOTY (sorry Zelda, yakuza and many other fantastic games from 2017 I have played )
A bit of background I consider Persona 4 to be my favorite game ever (3 is good but Tarturus was very grindy) .
Persona 5 rolls up, and is without a doubt a better game than Persona 4, almost everything has improved. The strange part is though I still consider Persona 4 higher even though 5 is better. When you get to the end of a Persona game (at least the last 3) you don't want to leave because you are leaving these game characters behind. 4's group felt like the greatest friends together, 5 felt like a group coming together to solve an issue but outside of that they are friends but have their own circles (which is completely fine).
In the end with all the gems coming out this year it's still my GOTY (sorry Zelda, yakuza and many other fantastic games from 2017 I have played )
bizzarewars
Banned
I think I still like P4G better. P5's dungeons and QoL improvements were great, but I felt that the overall story was way weaker.
That being said, the 3rd act twist and the final boss might be some of my favorite moments in a video game ever.
Edit: Also, no game in history has had better menus. That part of the game is untouchable.
That being said, the 3rd act twist and the final boss might be some of my favorite moments in a video game ever.
Edit: Also, no game in history has had better menus. That part of the game is untouchable.
I mean, maybe, but at least it had a story and characters I kind of cared about. P4 wasn't perfect or anything but it felt like it had a heart, whether that was accidental or not, compared to P5.
I can't really point to many things, except for the dialogue and music, that P4 did better than P5. Individually all of the other elements in P5 are slight evolutions and improvements of what P4 did from menus to graphics to battle system and so on. It just doesn't matter.
It's the story and characters. P5 didn't have what it needed in that department, so everything else just falls flat, regardless of how smooth or slick it was. It felt utterly hollow after the first 12 or so hours - that period being the time when you are still figuring out the world of the game, so you reserve judgment and are mainly curious. I remember when Ann, Ryuji and the MC are having a celebratory dinner after the Kamoshida story and I thought 'hm, that wasn't bad. i'm really glad there's another 80 hours of this', not knowing that it seriously was all downhill from that point on. Or like, a cliff. It immediately for bad for me with the Madarame stuff and just became more and more baffling like...why is this so boring? How is it possible it feels this robotic?
Once that kind of investment is gone, what was previously charmingly simple becomes repetitive and boring, what was goofy becomes annoying, and what you were willing to overlook becomes a reason to stop playing.