I think I summed up the various problems I and other people had with the game in a previous post so I'm just going to quote that.
Its still extensively overrated to me.
Characters that have no direction or just flat out don't grow post whatever arc they are introduced in (Ann, Haru).
Story elements that just seem completely nonsensical
(Why have the traitor go out like that? Why does Joker have to turn himself in to prove the 7th palace person guilty?)
.
The cast lacks general group development with several of the special events throughout the year being used for plot points or ruined by certain characters (School Festival is used as a means to move the plot along, the School Trip is ruined by Mishima and Ryuji)
The Fanservice centers around a character that literally goes through an arc about sexual harassment which is just creepy as hell.
Extremely unnecessary additions to combat (why do Nuke and Psi even exist?)
The Cover mechanic makes the game stupidly easy (Advantage on almost every encounter in the game!)
Mementos is garbage (nuff said).
Story elements mirror Persona 4 beat for beat (including during the freaking ending of all things).
An obsession with trying to make each new arc and target more grandiose then the last (No I didn't want the game to suddenly have an end of the world type plot thrown in the last minute without a damn hint of foreshadowing unlike the previous games)
Palaces get worse and worse as you progress through the game
Palace 7's mice mazes are the worst use of padding in an RPG I've seen in a long fucking time.
Also just as a note: I rather they go back to randomly generated dungeons if they are going to do dungeons like palaces again.
Finally, I think I had high expectations for the game but one thing that has really been clear to me after time has passed is just how poorly the story is actually written and hobbled together and how the game really lacks a clear evolution over Persona 4. Persona 4 wasn't a clear evolution over Persona 3 but it came out 2 years after Persona 3 so I can forgive it for not evolving.
But Persona 5 came out 8 years after Persona 4. They had plenty of time to work on the game and it was delayed time and again and for this? I know a lot of people liked the game but its easily the worst of the modern Persona's. Hell one of the most unique things about it is its art and its sense of style... But if you take that away (when 90% of the time you aren't seeing that as Joker wonders around the real world) it looks extremely dated and boring.
Those are the major problems I have with the game but theres a ton of minor ones as well such as the social links (confidants, whatever its the same thing) for NPC's all literally following the same exact format. You meet them>You see a personal problem they have>They get in big trouble>You not no secretly help them>Rank 10
they find out your identity.
It's actually cool the first time you see it but when you see it repeat over and over again the pattern becomes obvious and predictable and it makes the reveal at rank 10 feel extensively played out when literally EVERY character figures it out.
I'm not trying to hate on Persona 5, its not a BAD game its just not very good either. I think at release it was vastly overrated with people calling it GotY which I just can't agree with in the slightest. I'm hoping as time has gone on and more people have played through the whole thing that it'll be viewed in a more objective light but time will tell. I still see people saying how amazing MGSV was which was released in an unfinished and unsatisfying state and it still got a stupid amount of praise despite being released in the state it was in.
I don't know how anyone can defend characters like Haru who provide next to nothing to the plot or to her own character development or story elements that towards the end don't seem to make a lot of sense. I wanted this game to be better then it was and I think a lot of other people did too and its not wrong to bring up those kinds of criticisms on a game that took THIS long to make and has sold this well. This isn't a niche RPG anymore and it deserves to really be scrutinized with how much time went into it and the product they ended up making because of that.
Persona can be better then this, hell it was better then this.
The game is just honestly underwhelming and has a verity of issues that weren't present in previous games to the extent they are in this game. 6 months in and people have already forgotten about a lot of the game because none of it ever really has any impact. Hell I mentioned before but I had to look up various antagonists names because I couldn't remember their names because they had so little of an impact on me.
Yet I can recall almost every major story and plot point and name of every character of Persona 3 which I haven't played since the PSP version came out. Same for Persona 4, those games just had better characters and stories. I understand why people want to like these characters but I don't think anyone can really argue that they are severely lacking proper characterization and development, with Ann being the worst offender as I mentioned in my previous post in this topic.
I love this game but it is definitely flawed. Part of the reason a Crimson version comes out is to iron out some kinks. But I still say I like it as much as 3+4 but 3 is probably still my all time favorite.
Haru is probably the weirdest and I feel like there was supposed to be more to her. Shes the only one who has an entire aspect of her personality hidden in bonus dialogue.
Ryuji - aggressively stupid
Ahn - first world problems the person
Makoto - walking waifu archetype
Haru - lol
Morgana - just shut the fuck up
Yusuke - I forgot he was a character
Futaba - I guess the least bad
That's the problem with this game. Everyone sucks.
Yeah Futaba is actually decent and I like Makoto, maybe it's because the waifu stuff appeals to me somehow lol. THe others get grating at some point though Especially Ryuji and Morgana.
I think I summed up the various problems I and other people had with the game in a previous post so I'm just going to quote that.
The game is just honestly underwhelming and has a verity of issues that weren't present in previous games to the extent they are in this game. 6 months in and people have already forgotten about a lot of the game because none of it ever really has any impact. Hell I mentioned before but I had to look up various antagonists names because I couldn't remember their names because they had so little of an impact on me.
Yet I can recall almost every major story and plot point and name of every character of Persona 3 which I haven't played since the PSP version came out. Same for Persona 4, those games just had better characters and stories. I understand why people want to like these characters but I don't think anyone can really argue that they are severely lacking proper characterization and development, with Ann being the worst offender as I mentioned in my previous post in this topic.
Some really great points there that I totally agree with, others I disagree with, I like the palaces overall even if the last half are hit and miss, mostly miss.
I think that's a good write up of most of the problems of the game.
It just felt like P4 all over again, and they didn't change that much. In terms of structure or waifu quest. Maybe because I consumed it hastily, but the gang of friends felt less close and rushed. The next Persona game should have post-end game content where you just hang out with your buds and have fun slice of life stories.
It's no where near a bad game, but the innovation felt surface level
I love this game but it is definitely flawed. Part of the reason a Crimson version comes out is to iron out some kinks. But I still say I like it as much as 3+4 but 3 is probably still my all time favorite.
Haru is probably the weirdest and I feel like there was supposed to be more to her. Shes the only one who has an entire aspect of her personality hidden in bonus dialogue.
I also love how she's also probably the physically strongest character as well. Her weapon class is like the same as Shinji's from Persona 3, and he was like a giant compared to the rest of the cast. Really wish they'd stop adding new characters so late in the game, as they usually suffer the most when it comes to development.
Honestly your post probably highlights one of my biggest problems with the game(as I've said earlier in the thread) in that the game doesn't get out of it's own way. The previous games had a perfect blend of story and characters, so you really got a lot of everyone by the time the credits roll. The ratio isn't off by too much here, but it's telling that the vast majority of character interactions you get are random dialogue boxes in a random dungeon.
Game just doesn't have enough fun events where the story doesn't get in the way and the characters can just let loose, something *always* has to happen, and it doesn't strike me as that kind of story. Game needed a "smack Ryuji" button to let some alternate text appear in things like the school trip.
i haven't played any Persona game but P5 is the most ignored high-scored game i have ever seen, it got 93MC, the highest rating for a PS4 alongside MGS V and UC4, but barely any one cares about it
i haven't played any Persona game but P5 is the most ignored high-scored game i have ever seen, it got 93MC, the highest rating for a PS4 alongside MGS V and UC4, but barely any one cares about it
i haven't played any Persona game but P5 is the most ignored high-scored game i have ever seen, it got 93MC, the highest rating for a PS4 alongside MGS V and UC4, but barely any one cares about it
Because regardless of reviews it's still an anime styled turn based game, Joseph casual were never going to be buying it in large numbers. If you're judging it on this site though it got as much attention as most other high profile non Nintendo games
i haven't played any Persona game but P5 is the most ignored high-scored game i have ever seen, it got 93MC, the highest rating for a PS4 alongside MGS V and UC4, but barely any one cares about it
Thought it was good. Enjoyed the improvements made to the gameplay. Story was pretty solid up until around the third act where it felt like they just gave up and threw a bunch of shit together. Huge quality difference from the first 10-15 hours of the game compared to the last bits. The prologue, intro, and whole arc surrounding Kamoshida is some of the best story and character interaction Ive seen in the series imo.
Characters had better personalities and development, but dont feel as timeless to me. Wish the events in the game were more fleshed out or given better thought (fuck you Mishima for ruining the school trip). Oh and too many days were wasted doing nothing but story. Wake up, cutscene, go to sleep. That shit sucked.
I got what I expected going into Persona 5 but I havent really had the urge to replay it since beating it at launch. I played through P3 and P4 multiple times immediately after beating them but that may just be due to me not having nearly as much time to play though an 80 hour JRPG these days. Hope they release a P5 Crimson.
I'm floored by the amount of critique this game is receiving in this thread. It's a game that has some flaws, but overall I thought it was fantastic, and quickly became one of my new favorites. The characters are well realized, the combat is fun, the UI has unparalleled style, and the soundtrack, while not as varied as some might like (though it does have over 90 unique pieces of music), is snappy and unforgettable.
Right up there with BotW for my favorite of the year.
Into the third palace now. Still pretty underwhelmed dungeons are still waaaay to long, negotiating with personas to get their mask feels completely random, some indictor as to what response classifies as vague or whatever would be great, translation is bad, weird lack of voice acting is scenes that feel like their should be and the characters aren't leaping out at me either. I do want to know the overall what exactly is going on, but almost everything outside of some save and battle tweaks feels worse then P4.
I got bored when the second dungeon started and still haven't continued from there.
Persona 4 was a game that got me hooked instantly, but for whatever reason I'm not feeling P5.
I love this game but it is definitely flawed. Part of the reason a Crimson version comes out is to iron out some kinks. But I still say I like it as much as 3+4 but 3 is probably still my all time favorite.
Haru is probably the weirdest and I feel like there was supposed to be more to her. She's the only one who has an entire aspect of her personality hidden in bonus dialogue.
I liked this game. It's my favorite Persona game. I didn't love it though.
It ultimately falls into the same traps the other games do despite it showing enough potential throughout for better. The writing and plot is simply too sloppy. I'm not sure how much of that is down to the localization job, but they couldn't have had done so much damage to the pacing on their own. I found it really fun to play which is a key difference from 3/4 though it dragged pretty often and didn't give me enough freedom on my schedule.
The cast is very hit or miss. Characters like Ryuji and Ann are excellent in the first part but become inconsistent and irrelevant. Ryuji especially seems to get worse over the course of the game and I'm not sure why they did him like that. Yusuke kind of becomes a joke machine with his situation never talked about after his arc, though I enjoyed him, Morgana constantly starting shit got actively annoying after a while culminating in what I consider the worst part of the game: the space station. Haru is just...not a character. I'd go as far as to say I'm not sure why she's in the game at all.
I generally enjoyed how Makoto and Futaba developed and would say Futaba is probably the strongest character in terms of how she develops. I usually expect these nerdy hacker type characters to be cringey but they really wrote her in a way that had me rooting for her to become better. Makoto isn't as good but they actually consider how later arcs could affect her character unlike the others so I came away liking her.
The protagonist I found more charming than previous games but I think they try to hard to make me feel sorry for him/believe he's an upstanding citizen. I would enjoy him more if he was more rough around the edges.
Akechi was flat out close to being my favorite character until
they threw it all away on some generic daddy issues bullshit. Come on man. He was the perfect foil.
I don't even mind him being the traitor but that part of the plot where it's revealed this is all some petty revenge scheme cause daddy doesn't love him had me wanting to shut the game off right there, and then the game wants me to feel sympathy for him. I'm sorry,
but I can't.
Confidant characters are hit or miss but I enjoyed some of them enough for it to make up for the complete lapses of character in the rest of the cast.
Like I said gameplay wise I really enjoyed this game, so it made up for some of the plot stuff and still came out as my favorite game in the series. There's a lot of padding which I think isn't really necessary but dungeons like Futaba's were really fun to go through. There was nothing like that in the other Persona games I played where gameplay had a lot of cool ideas but ultimately felt sloggy.
I beat it around May, and I loved it. It will stay in my top 10 (but it won't be #1 or #2, probably #3 or #4). It will always be a testament to how Japanese games are superior to Western games.
Akechi was flat out close to being my favorite character until
they threw it all away on some generic daddy issues bullshit. Come on man. He was the perfect foil.
I don't even mind him being the traitor but that part of the plot where it's revealed this is all some petty revenge scheme cause daddy doesn't love him had me wanting to shut the game off right there, and then the game wants me to feel sympathy for him. I'm sorry,
but I can't.
Said it in a previous thread: never once liked or was remotely interested in Akechi as a character - the moment he was introduced post-Second Palace my immediate thought was: "yep, you're
the traitor mentioned in the prologue and are likely going to be one of the last, but not THE last, boss we fight"
. I know some people, to counter, argue that
his betrayal was never meant to be the big twist, but rather the fact the Phantom Thieves KNEW he was the traitor and were secretly counter-plotting against him
and to be fair I found that revelation somewhat entertaining if still flawed in a number of ways - the game wasn't as smart as it thought it was during the flashback segments.
The only real salvageable thing they could have done was have him permanently join the group during the seventh palace and beyond - it might have given that sudden rush of
"SHIDO IS MY FATHER, NOBODY WANTS ME/LOVES ME"
back-story unloading a bit more meaning and impact if he was actually a party member during the Seventh Palace, but I guess Atlus wanted some manner of
antagonist who sacrifices themselves to help the protagonist
-type deal in there somehow. I'd like to think that the fact Akechi
even has his own mouse-form animation complete with the mask he wears
would suggest the idea was at least considered, if not decided on.
I know the game's been out for six months, but I still think it's wise to spoiler-tag stuff for those who haven't played the game yet.
I'm now 100 hours in and unless the remainder of the game is truly awful I have to admit the good/great aspects of this game have vastly outweighed it's flaws. Calling it overrated is a bit much because I can easily see how for most, the flaws are easily ignored. They didn't bug me that much but I did notice their existence. This is still , at it's worst a game I would call at least an 8/10.
Certainly there are many issues with the games plot , especially Palace 5 but it makes a decent stab at recovery that at worst is a little generic. Really, my only honest to gosh problem I have with Persona 5 is the length. There is literally no reason it needs to be as long as it is , pacing could have been handled much better had dungeons been built to be no more than 2 hours long no matter what and social links really didn't need 10 parts , 5 would have been plenty (since perks are largely locked behind odd or even S.link levels anyway). It's been mentioned by many others but there are far too many points where the plot is really all that's being showcased for a "day" of game time , rather then even letting the player have control it would have sped things along to just ask the player if they want to save , have Mona say "let's go to bed" and then it just automatically skips to the next day.
Giving these above issues a pass is largely due to this being my first real stab at an SMT/Persona title. I've dabbled in the past , bought Nocturne and managed to get to the second boss before throwing in the towel, years upon years ago I'd played 2 dungeons into Persona 2 on a rental for the original playstation. But , the premise and world design coupled with the fantastic art and music as well as a satisfying rock-paper-scissors battle system just sucked me in. Perhaps my mileage would be a little worse if I'd played P3/P4 at all but I simply didn't have the interest back then. Enjoying this entry as much as I have did lead me to buying Persona 4 Golden on the vita though. Haven't started it yet mind you.
Saw that it was on "sale" for 40 bucks at Target, so I just picked it up. I'm actually pretty excited to play it though - this will be my first Persona game.
I stand by the fact that the scope of the game is pretty intimidating, but I'm sure it'll be a helluva ride.
Saw that it was on "sale" for 40 bucks at Target, so I just picked it up. I'm actually pretty excited to play it though - this will be my first Persona game.
I stand by the fact that the scope of the game is pretty intimidating, but I'm sure it'll be a helluva ride.
You're really in for a ride . I hope you enjoy it. It's quite a long game so just take it one day at a time so you don't feel overwhelmed... If you do get stuck or overwhelmed the community threads on here are really helpful and you could also use a guide if that's something you prefer.
All these negative and lukewarm responses are nice to read. Not because of schadenfreude - I love Persona 4 and really wanted to like 5 - but because I found 5's writing so soulless and by the numbers compared to 4's (and even 3's), and hope that, despite P5's success, the development team sees some of the post-hype complaints and puts as much effort into plotting and pacing and characterization on their next project as into aesthetics. That would be a true RPG for the ages.
Persona 5 had so much going for it, but I really feel like it ended up a super stylish but empty shell of a game.
Said it in a previous thread: never once liked or was remotely interested in Akechi as a character - the moment he was introduced post-Second Palace my immediate thought was: "yep, you're
the traitor mentioned in the prologue and are likely going to be one of the last, but not THE last, boss we fight"
. I know some people, to counter, argue that
his betrayal was never meant to be the big twist, but rather the fact the Phantom Thieves KNEW he was the traitor and were secretly counter-plotting against him
and to be fair I found that revelation somewhat entertaining if still flawed in a number of ways - the game wasn't as smart as it thought it was during the flashback segments.
The only real salvageable thing they could have done was have him permanently join the group during the seventh palace and beyond - it might have given that sudden rush of
"SHIDO IS MY FATHER, NOBODY WANTS ME/LOVES ME"
back-story unloading a bit more meaning and impact if he was actually a party member during the Seventh Palace, but I guess Atlus wanted some manner of
antagonist who sacrifices themselves to help the protagonist
-type deal in there somehow. I'd like to think that the fact Akechi
even has his own mouse-form animation complete with the mask he wears
would suggest the idea was at least considered, if not decided on.
I know the game's been out for six months, but I still think it's wise to spoiler-tag stuff for those who haven't played the game yet.
Pretty much the entire cast knew and plotted against him because it involved holding key information from the player to work. You're disconnected from your player avatar for this to happen. There are hints that Aketchi is the traitor, but there aren't many hints at all that the whole gang knew what was up.It feels less clever and more like overwrought BS to have a bunch of shocking reveals happen one after another.
I honestly would have rather had a clean, predictable traitor story where you have to deal with the consequences of getting played than what they went with.
You wanna talk BS, I think the first "OH FFS!" moment I had during the game's latter parts - which I think many agree is where a lot of the weaknesses stem from - is beginning the Fifth Palace: the fact
Morgana just disappears because "his feelings were hurt", which in turn gives the game an excuse to introduce Haru...whom perhaps is the most pointless, shallow and devoid character in the game and doesn't even have a proper and/or fulfilling 'awakening' moment/battle
, it just comes off as padding in what is already a pretty lengthy game to begin with.
I also spotted a thread on (of all places) /v/ where people agreed Morgana's double-standards - "haha look how dumb Ryuji is; Ryuji you're so dumb; hey have I mentioned how dumb Ryuji is....but DID YOU CRITICIZE ME, WAAAAAAH I'M LEAVING" - stopped him from becoming an overall likeable character. As interesting as it was to see his back-story develop - even if the reveal was more "...oh..." than "OH..WHAT?!" - I'm inclined to agree that some moments where he was specifically involved were just pointless stretching-out for the sake of character interaction/friction. I get the whole rivalry and "we're not enemies, but we're not friends" relationship between him and Ryuji, but as obnoxious as the latter was in parts, while I don't think it would have made sense for the two to kiss-and-make-up by the end, that relationship just seemed a little ham-fisted and focused on too much. Just shut up and get on with it guys.
You're really in for a ride . I hope you enjoy it. It's quite a long game so just take it one day at a time so you don't feel overwhelmed... If you do get stuck or overwhelmed the community threads on here are really helpful and you could also use a guide if that's something you prefer.
Thanks! I love the little "Take you time" notification that the game uses lol. It's a nice little reminder to just take in everything that's happening, and not rush things.
Ryuji - aggressively stupid
Ahn - first world problems the person
Makoto - walking waifu archetype
Haru - lol
Morgana - just shut the fuck up
Yusuke - I forgot he was a character
Futaba - I guess the least bad
That's the problem with this game. Everyone sucks.
Everyone sucks when viewed through a ridiculously reductive and disingenuous lens:
Yosuke - Inconsistent and gross character
Chie - The least bad
Yukiko - Boring w/ bad jokes
Rise - As if the player needed someone to constantly stroke their ego
Kanji - Half-hearted, cowardly character arc, fodder for bad jokes, really stupid
Teddie - Obnoxious
Naoto - lol
It's the same shit. Of course I don't actually feel that way about them (well Naoto was pretty mediocre), but the double standard is so blatant here.
All these negative and lukewarm responses are nice to read. Not because of schadenfreude - I love Persona 4 and really wanted to like 5 - but because I found 5's writing so soulless and by the numbers compared to 4's (and even 3's), and hope that, despite P5's success, the development team sees some of the post-hype complaints and puts as much effort into plotting and pacing and characterization on their next project as into aesthetics. That would be a true RPG for the ages.
Persona 5 had so much going for it, but I really feel like it ended up a super stylish but empty shell of a game.
I guess I'm minority here that I liked Persona 5 characters more than Persona 4. Say what you want about Ryuji but to me his much more interesting character than Yoskue.
