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Blade Runner 2049 |OT| Do Androids Dream of Electric Boogaloo? [Unmarked Spoilers]

Oberon

Banned
This was overly long. Like, awfully long. You could cut 30 minutes and the movie would not suffer at all from it. On the contrary.

They try to mimic the noir structure of the original but fail miserably at it with a bunch of literal nothingness one after another for like an hour and a half.

You mean like the original movie. Which had Deckard zooming in on a picture for like an hour?

It's telling that the most elaborate sequence of the first half was that stupid sync-sex that lasted ages. Because sex I guess.

Because that was the point of the scene "Sex I guess". Let me guess, you loved the "love scene" in the original because that movie can't do no wrong
It only picks up when Deckard's daughter is shown. Everything up to that point is been there, done that but told in a poor, boring way. .

What are you talking about? Been there done that? Did we watch the same movie? Did you just read a synopsis or something because very different things happen in very different locations in those two movies.
The latter half is enjoyable and the aesthetics are sublime throughout, but putting this side to side with the original is madness, let alone consider it better in anything. Characters? no; Presentation? no because it was infinitely more impressive and innovative in 1982; Story? no, at times it feel like a "what if" fanfic about a secret child and is more in line with that shitty happy ending of the infamous US theatrical of the original or whatever was it that had it; Music? Hell fucking no. .

I don't even know where to begin here. It's fine that you like different things, but pretending that Blade Runner had an amazing story and a bunch of great characters and 2049 had none is complete nonesense. And the good ol empty "It's like FANFIC" critic. "I don't like it so it's fanfic and bad". And what do you mean happy ending? Do we see any nature in this movie? Do Deckard and Rachel live happelly ever after? You'd have to know that they relationship ended in Rachel dying in child birth, giving away the baby and Deckard living in solitude.

It sets up a sequel but who cares really? I'm not here for another generic robots vs humans revolution/war..

If you think that was the whole point of the movie then really haven't been paying attention

The "there but not really there" retcon about the whole fucking first movie being based on a plan by some stupid Leto-like douchebag to give birth to a replicant is just insulting. Like deviantart fanfic levels of "why".

As far as I remember that was something said by the villain, but we don't really know if it's true or not.

Your whole impression sounds like of someone who went into the movie wanting to hate it probably because they love the orignal so much that they can't see the flaws in it.
 

Theodoricos

Member
It hurts to see two excellent movies being pitted against each other and people hating on one to defend the other.

Edit: It's entirely possible that both of them are fantastic at what they are and that their approach to the detective/noir/cyberpunk aspects is just different.
 
It hurts to see two excellent movies being pitted against each other and people hating on one to defend the other.

Even when not "pitting them against each other", I certainly never believed that the original was a flawless movie. It is a masterpiece in terms of production, and some of the ideas it presents are certainly very interesting. But it's not actually that great of a movie. The acting isn't entirely there, the relationship between Rachael and Deckard kinda came out of nowhere, and there wasn't any actual mystery in terms of plot, which is weird given its genre.

It's still a good movie, but in terms of telling an interesting story, I think the sequel has it beat hands down.
 

Nev

Banned
I don't think you really get the movie. You complained about the slow pacing, but you realize that the pacing was deliberately slow so as to give you time to think while watching the movie right? You weren't supposed to just sit there, waiting for the next scene to arrive.

I'm not complaining about the slow pacing. Blade Runner is slow and I love it. I'm saying it's boring, and because the things it showed in almost 3 hours weren't interesting at all for me or made me think in the slightlest, I wish it was 30-40 minutes shorter.

Zhora dying to that masterful tune made me think, generic child slave factory #342, cyberpunk CSI meetings, cyberpunk Joker-Terminator Quinn don't make me think.

As I said, it came off as trying way too hard too frequently. Examples:

The "sex" scene with the hooker + Joi. While the whole laggy avatar was interesting at first, it was like 5 minutes too long.

Jared Leto killing the newborn robot girl. Woah he's such a bad guy, stabbing her in the stomach to simbolize how useless she is because she can't give birth. How subtle and elegant.

Child workers in a marginalized, dirty outskirts full of poor people that will only do what they need to do in order to survive. Gamechanger.

Terminator waifu. Literally "notice me senpai" yandere always looking for the shock factor. "Look how little of a fuck she gives!" Like, we get it.
 

Theodoricos

Member
You can love a movie and acknowledge its flaws

Sure. It's just that there seems to be a new pattern lately where a new movie in an old franchise is released and discussion about which is better or making lists of favorites becomes more prevalent than discussing each movie on its own merits. And then one movie's flaws become exaggerated in order to defend the other.

Also, a movie can't have started a whole subgenre of science fiction and suddenly be "actually not that great". Having a new favorite is great, but time has already vindicated the original Blade Runner. 2049 is still hot from the oven and over time it may prove to be the better of the two, but that doesn't mean that the original suddenly became less than it was.
 

Oberon

Banned

"Do things differently, but also the same. I also want to feel smarter than others by watching it"

Sure. It's just that there seems to be a new pattern lately where a new movie in an old franchise is released and discussion about which is better or making lists of favorites becomes more prevalent than discussing each movie on its own merits. And then one movie's flaws become exaggerated in order to defend the other.

Also, a movie can't have started a whole subgenre of science fiction and suddenly be "actually not that great". Having a new favorite is great, but time has already vindicated the original Blade Runner. 2049 is still hot from the oven and over time it may prove to be the better of the two, but that doesn't mean that the original suddenly became less than it was.

I mean there are things about the original like the visuals and settings that only get praise. Even people that don't like it as a movie usually agree on that.
 
I'm not complaining about the slow pacing. Blade Runner is slow and I love it. I'm saying it's boring, and because the things it showed in almost 3 hours weren't interesting at all for me or made me think in the slightlest, I wish it was 30-40 minutes shorter.

Zhora dying to that masterful tune made me think, generic child slave factory #342, cyberpunk CSI meetings, cyberpunk Joker-Terminator Quinn don't make me think.

As I said, it came off as trying way too hard too frequently. Examples:

The "sex" scene with the hooker + Joi. While the whole laggy avatar was interesting at first, it was like 5 minutes too long.

Jared Leto killing the newborn robot girl. Woah he's such a bad guy, stabbing her in the stomach to simbolize how useless she is because she can't give birth. How subtle and elegant.

Child workers in a marginalized, dirty outskirts full of poor people that will only do what they need to do in order to survive. Gamechanger.

Terminator waifu. Literally "notice me senpai" yandere always looking for the shock factor. "Look how little of a fuck she gives!" Like, we get it.

That lab scene was like over in no time at all, and it served other purposes too. Such as showing the kind of regard humans have for replicants. It wasn't just a "CSI meeting".

The Rachael sex scene was better? And I don't think that scene even went on for 5 minutes.

Roy Batty pressing out Tyrell's eyes sure was more subtle, right.

The orphanage wasn't supposed to be gamechanging, so I'm not sure why you're discrediting it based on that. It was meant to show the dire state of things, and it did, so... What's the problem?

She's not just a "terminator waifu". She actually has some decent characterization that you're completely discounting. Her oedipal complex with Wallace, and her seeming conflicted emotions regarding it, for example. You're making it seem like the point of her brutality was to show her like some kind of badass, which it wasn't.

At any rate, given some of the articles written about it, and some of the comments in this thread, there is clearly a veritable shitton to think about. Otherwise there wouldn't be this much discussion about it. You didn't pick up on a single iota of it, but that's not really the movie's issue. And it's fine that you're not interested in the topics the movie talks about, but it is kinda weird given that they're just expounding and adding to some of the themes of the original.
 

Zakalwe

Banned
You disliked 2049 for reasons as shallow as the movie was to you. Like, we get it.

I'll never understand the people who stick around in OTs just to shit on the subject matter over and over.

Difference of opinion is good, but this is just weird.
 

Nev

Banned
You mean like the original movie. Which had Deckard zooming in on a picture for like an hour?

True. I'd also cut some minutes from the original.

Because that was the point of the scene "Sex I guess". Let me guess, you loved the "love scene" in the original because that movie can't do no wrong

It kinda served a purpose even if I dislike any sex scene longer than 30 sec in a non-porn movie. Like, it sets up the relationship of the main characters and apparently the whole sequel.

What are you talking about? Been there done that? Did we watch the same movie? Did you just read a synopsis or something because very different things happen in very different locations in those two movies.

I'm talking about the kind of stuff Joe/K goes through. It's nothing remotely interesting or innovative to warrant such slow pace.

I remember people expressing how much they hated that Gits 2017 turned the original plot into a generic conspiracy-twist-treason, but honestly, well I found this one to be a similar case. Blade Runner had a clear emphasis on presenting a philosophical/metaphysical dilemma, this one still retains some of that but can't help but feel more shallow and with a different focus. Just like Gits 2017 compared to the anime.

I don't even know where to begin here. It's fine that you like different things, but pretending that Blade Runner had an amazing story and a bunch of great characters and 2049 had none is complete nonesense. And the good ol empty "It's like FANFIC" critic. "I don't like it so it's fanfic and bad". And what do you mean happy ending? Do we see any nature in this movie? Do Deckard and Rachel live happelly ever after? You'd have to know that they relationship ended in Rachel dying in child birth, giving away the baby and Deckard living in solitude.

All I was saying was that all these elements in 2049 fall short of what Blade Runner had, especially the music. Not that Blade Runner was the best thing ever created.

With happy ending I mean the original movie's happy ending from a particular cut that was a product of focus tested suits and basically destroyed the whole movie if you considered it canon. The fact that the sequel seems to be based on that is what I don't like.

Your whole impression sounds like of someone who went into the movie wanting to hate it probably because they love the orignal so much that they can't see the flaws in it.

That's not the case at all. I'll admit I didn't think a sequel to the original was necessary, but I wasn't particularly against it and went in expecting it to be more than decent, from what I had read. I found it just decent.
 

Einchy

semen stains the mountaintops
I'll never understand the people who stick around in OTs just to shit on the subject matter over and over.

Difference of opinion is good, but this is just weird.

Same.

I really only enjoying talking about things I like, if I watch something and dislike it, why spend days and hundreds of posts trying to poke holes into it? Especially when the overwhelming response is that I'm in the minority.

Different strokes, I guess.
 

Freshmaker

I am Korean.
K bought a Joi knowing full well what it was, including experiencing all the glitches and interrupting phone calls. Joi ads are everywhere, and he knows that they are programmed to say things he wants to hear, telling her she doesn't have to say certain things (the prominent showing of the earlier ad is for the audience). One of the first things you see is her setup screen with parameters such as hair color and skin type.

The giant billboard Joi looking and acting so alien compared to his own yet using the "Joe" language reinforced how different they ultimately became. His Joi died during the search for Deckard. He's finishing it.

Such is my two cents, anyway.
The way K acted, he actively shunned real interactions. Not fitting for a skinjob. That hologram was his compromise since he didn't actually risk physical interaction as per his programming kept informing him how it was bad/not baseline.

I took it as the moment where it crystallized to him how pointless his existence had been up to that point. His memory turned out to be fake, then finding that his one little piece of humanity he'd allowed himself was also fake the "special customer' moved him to try to do "the most human thing he could do".
 
I'm secretly hoping there's a bunch of cut footage that makes its way onto the BluRay and makes the movie like another hour longer. My god that would be amazing.
 

Einchy

semen stains the mountaintops
I'm secretly hoping there's a bunch of cut footage that makes its way onto the BluRay and makes the movie like another hour longer. My god that would be amazing.

I want a subplot where it's K just walking around looking at cool cyberpunk shit.
 

BraXzy

Member
I've watched this twice now, second viewing held up. I'm still a little confused by some stuff though.

1) How did Wallace and co know that evidence of a replicant pregnancy had been found? Were we just to assume it leaked out? I still didn't catch how it went from the confines of the investigation room to Luv.

2) How did they jump from finding said evidence, to knowing Deckard was the father?
 

Nev

Banned
I'll never understand the people who stick around in OTs just to shit on the subject matter over and over.

Stick around just to shit over and over?? I literally just came from the teather and expressed my thoughts on the movie. Am I supposed to just drop a post and leave? Jesus christ.

You disliked 2049 for reasons as shallow as the movie was to you. Like, we get it.

"Do things differently, but also the same. I also want to feel smarter than others by watching it"

Eh whatever, bye. Don't know why I bothered quoting and answering to everything. Obviously the circlejerk is the only desired narrative in some OPs.
 

Zakalwe

Banned
Stick around just to shit over and over?? I literally just came from the teather and expressed my thoughts on the movie. Am I supposed to just drop a post and leave? Jesus christ.

I wasn't even talking about you personally. Relax.
 

Oberon

Banned
Stick around just to shit over and over?? I literally just came from the teather and expressed my thoughts on the movie. Am I supposed to just drop a post and leave? Jesus christ.

Eh whatever, bye. Don't know why I bothered quoting and answering to everything. Obviously the circlejerk is the only desired narrative in some OPs.

Maybe I was too hostile, but you have to to admit that your post was very provocative. It's fine to like the original more or even disliking the new movie. But I can't help but get upset when I read stuff like "it's like the original but everything is bad and like fanfic"
 

jtb

Banned
Wow, what a lovely film. Had pretty low expectations and was blown away. Far prefer it to the original.

For starters, it is unmistakably a Villenueve film -- which I'll take over a Ridley Scott film any day of the week. Ditches the sci-fi speculative questions of the first (which I always found rather tedious) for a mythic religiosity -- it has such strong echoes of all of Villenueve's previous work, but Incedies more than anything. He wraps these myths within the trappings of post-9/11 worlds, and now science fiction in a way that is pretty singular in Hollywood at the moment. That Villenueve's filmmaking identity has never been strong in an adaptation/sequel is a remarkable achievement, and I found this film to be a far more thematically coherent and compelling film than the original.

Also, the Nabokov and Kafka shoutouts are pretty heavy handed given his clear love for them, but fuck it, I squealed like a pathetic fanboy anyways.
 

shintoki

sparkle this bitch
I've watched this twice now, second viewing held up. I'm still a little confused by some stuff though.

1) How did Wallace and co know that evidence of a replicant pregnancy had been found? Were we just to assume it leaked out? I still didn't catch how it went from the confines of the investigation room to Luv.

2) How did they jump from finding said evidence, to knowing Deckard was the father?

Luv already knew about Rachel in the beginning. They said Tyrell found it then locked it away.

When K went to investigate, it meant Rachel was found. Luv getting the bones confirmed she was preggers

Deckard ran away with Rachel. Their entire meeting was set up by Tyrell.
 

Freshmaker

I am Korean.
I've watched this twice now, second viewing held up. I'm still a little confused by some stuff though.

1) How did Wallace and co know that evidence of a replicant pregnancy had been found? Were we just to assume it leaked out? I still didn't catch how it went from the confines of the investigation room to Luv.

2) How did they jump from finding said evidence, to knowing Deckard was the father?
Given they already knew Rachel was special, they probably had any queries regarding her flagged. They also had access to Tyrell's surviving information on the incident regarding Deckard.

When someone turned up with parts of Rachel, they at least knew they had a lead. When they got the bones, they figured out the rest.
 
I'm still kinda stuck on this notion that it would have been impossible for K to end up with the Blade Runner division if he were the actual replicant child. I feel like I'm missing something.

He knows he's a replicant. Do we know if Nexus 9's can start off as children? Probably not right, because why would they give them memories otherwise. So how did he think he ended up being a Blade Runner then?
 

BraXzy

Member
Luv already knew about Rachel in the beginning. They said Tyrell found it then locked it away.

When K went to investigate, it meant Rachel was found. Luv getting the bones confirmed she was preggers

Deckard ran away with Rachel. Their entire meeting was set up by Tyrell.

Ah yes, the automatic flag popped up when he enquired. That was the point at which Wallace and Luv started to take notice right?

Still not sure about K knowing Deckard was the father.
 

Rydeen

Member
I'm still kinda stuck on this notion that it would have been impossible for K to end up with the Blade Runner division if he were the actual replicant child. I feel like I'm missing something.

He knows he's a replicant. Do we know if Nexus 9's can start off as children? Probably not right, because why would they give them memories otherwise. So how did he think he ended up being a Blade Runner then?

The whole point of giving replicant's memories was made by Tyrell in the original film:

We began to recognize in them a strange obsession. After all, they are emotionally inexperienced, with only a few years in which to store up the experiences which you and I take for granted. If we gift them with a past, we create a cushion or a pillow for their emotions, and consequently, we can control them better.

It's an emotional cushion so the replicants don't have emotional / mental issues during their lifespan. Regardless if they know if they're "real" memories or not, they give them built in life experiences that make them more mature and have less emotional issues that come with having the life experiences of a child equal to their incept date but the physicality and intelligence of an adult.
 
Ah yes, the automatic flag popped up when he enquired. That was the point at which Wallace and Luv started to take notice right?

Still not sure about K knowing Deckard was the father.

I don't remember the exact details, but he did hear that Voight-Kampff interview thing of Rachael's, which lead him to Gaff, which lead him to Deckard.

The whole point of giving replicant's memories was made by Tyrell in the original film:



It's an emotional cushion so the replicants don't have emotional / mental issues during their lifespan.

So they definitely start off as adults.

So again, like, how did he think he ended up being a Blade Runner when more than likely, those replicants are delivered ready-made, for the purpose of being Blade Runners.
 
One thing I didnt quite get on my first viewing was where the tracker was coming from that Luv initially used to track Joe/K but then he destroyed it after Joi told him to iirc. The tracker from the prostitute in his jacket was an entirely different one right? Was Luv's tracker built into the emanator maybe? If so Joi making him aware of it existing and that he should destroy it also seems to indicate she has her own persona because I doubt Wallace Corp would add this into her programming if its a secret product "feature".
 

jtb

Banned
also, I could be wrong, but it doesn't seem like there's a big unanswered question at the heart of the film. Which is also refreshing.
 

Zakalwe

Banned
One thing I didnt quite get on my first viewing was where the tracker was coming from that Luv initially used to track Joe/K but then he destroyed it after Joi told him to iirc. The tracker from the prostitute in his jacket was an entirely different one right? Was Luv's tracker built into the emanator maybe? If so Joi making him aware of it existing and that he should destroy it also seems to indicate she has her own persona because I doubt Wallace Corp would add this into her programming if its a secret product "feature".

Luv was initially tracking K via Joi's device, yes. She later tracked him via the LAPD computers.

The resistance were tracking him via the one slipped into his pocket.
 

Rydeen

Member
So they definitely start off as adults.

So again, like, how did he think he ended up being a Blade Runner when more than likely, those replicants are delivered ready-made, for the purpose of being Blade Runners.

He's having an existential crisis about his existence, at that point he didn't know the how or the why, what's important was K felt like he had a real past as a real human that was taken from him, probably as part of the cover-up to hide the existence of the child.
 
D

Deleted member 102362

Unconfirmed Member
I'm secretly hoping there's a bunch of cut footage that makes its way onto the BluRay and makes the movie like another hour longer. My god that would be amazing.
As a lover of deleted and alternate footage...I hope the bluray has some to sift through. It's clear some stuff was cut, based on the trailers.
 

Jezbollah

Member
Just got back after seeing it this evening - after rewatching the BluRay Final Cut of the first film after lunch.

I fucking loved 2049. It's a fantastic sequel. Story, cinematography and soundtrack were top notch. Will probably buy on BluRay.
 

Theodoricos

Member
Listening to the soundtrack, I do have to say I really like Sapper's Tree. Short as it is, I think it's the best track for me. It feels equally mysterious and sad. Which I suppose is appropriate.

The score as a whole is certainly different, but it does give 2049 its own identity.
 

6.8

Member
Eh whatever, bye. Don't know why I bothered quoting and answering to everything. Obviously the circlejerk is the only desired narrative in some OPs.

I don't care about your opinion. You're an anonymous person on the Internet. You can hate the movie all you want. You don't have to go all edgelord on it.
 

Surfinn

Member
Listening to the soundtrack, I do have to say I really like Sapper's Tree. Short as it is, I think it's the best track for me. It feels equally mysterious and sad. Which I suppose is appropriate.

The score as a whole is certainly different, but it does give 2049 its own identity.

Yup, this track is fucking great.

I actually really enjoyed the OST
 
Personally I actually found the music distracting at points. It was basically "loud", and then "unnoticeable" at points. I did appreciate that one moment that referenced Vangelis though. On CD I find it fairly bland too.
 

Surfinn

Member
Personally I actually found the music distracting at points. It was basically "loud", and then "unnoticeable" at points. I did appreciate that one moment that referenced Vangelis though. On CD I find it fairly bland too.

I honestly found that it really depends on which theater you're in. The first time I saw it, the entire sound mix was shit and blasting the hell out of my head.

When I saw it a second time, in a different theater, it was pretty much perfect. I even sat closer in the front row
 
Deckard ran away with Rachel. Their entire meeting was set up by Tyrell.

Wallace suggests that as one possibility, but he's just speculating and hopes to get to the bottom of the mystery by interrogating Rick, with or without his willing cooperation. In fact Joe deduces that Rick is the father through straightforward gumshoe work.

At first, Joe is just following a hunch that the guy he hears in the recording of Rachael's Voight-Kampff test could be the same guy who got her pregnant. Listening to the way she responds to his questions he says he can tell she's attracted to him and is trying to annoy him (or words to that effect.) But Rick has disappeared and the trail is cold. Then he has the horse analysed and the tritium in its radiation signature leads him to Las Vegas, which has been deserted since a dirty bomb incident during the years of chaos that followed the 2022 blackout.

When he finally gets to Las Vegas and finds Rick there, it all starts to fall into place. He gently prods Rick and asks him who "she" was, careful to avoid a leading question. Rick replies by giving the name Rachael, and Joe has now found out how Rachael ended up dying in childbirth.
 

HariKari

Member
I'm not complaining about the slow pacing. Blade Runner is slow and I love it. I'm saying it's boring, and because the things it showed in almost 3 hours weren't interesting at all for me or made me think in the slightlest, I wish it was 30-40 minutes shorter.

Zhora dying to that masterful tune made me think, generic child slave factory #342, cyberpunk CSI meetings, cyberpunk Joker-Terminator Quinn don't make me think.

As I said, it came off as trying way too hard too frequently. Examples:

The "sex" scene with the hooker + Joi. While the whole laggy avatar was interesting at first, it was like 5 minutes too long.

Jared Leto killing the newborn robot girl. Woah he's such a bad guy, stabbing her in the stomach to simbolize how useless she is because she can't give birth. How subtle and elegant.

Child workers in a marginalized, dirty outskirts full of poor people that will only do what they need to do in order to survive. Gamechanger.

Terminator waifu. Literally "notice me senpai" yandere always looking for the shock factor. "Look how little of a fuck she gives!" Like, we get it.

If you come at the original with this uhm... angle, you can make a bunch of equally silly statements.
 
I'm not complaining about the slow pacing. Blade Runner is slow and I love it. I'm saying it's boring, and because the things it showed in almost 3 hours weren't interesting at all for me or made me think in the slightlest, I wish it was 30-40 minutes shorter.

Zhora dying to that masterful tune made me think, generic child slave factory #342, cyberpunk CSI meetings, cyberpunk Joker-Terminator Quinn don't make me think.

As I said, it came off as trying way too hard too frequently. Examples:

The "sex" scene with the hooker + Joi. While the whole laggy avatar was interesting at first, it was like 5 minutes too long.

Jared Leto killing the newborn robot girl. Woah he's such a bad guy, stabbing her in the stomach to simbolize how useless she is because she can't give birth. How subtle and elegant.

Child workers in a marginalized, dirty outskirts full of poor people that will only do what they need to do in order to survive. Gamechanger.

Terminator waifu. Literally "notice me senpai" yandere always looking for the shock factor. "Look how little of a fuck she gives!" Like, we get it.

Internet culture sure did a number on you.
 
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