Support NeoGAF

[dr_rus]

Can't agree in terms of the worlds. I think they are star of the show honestly- Dishonored just has fantastic world design. The world and background lore are stronger than any of the characters and story in either game.

Design, yes, but this is mechanics again, a beautifully designed world with nothing but some rough sketches for the backstory. I always felt that Dishonored world needed to be opened more, explained in the games. Instead of this we're just jumping from one beautiful design to the next one, without any actual explanation of what the hell is even happening here.

In other words, their whole world building with Dishonored exist only to support the gameplay mechanics and because of this they easily forget previously introduced parts of the world lore and even easier add new ones to justify some new power they wanted to create. This hurts the world, makes it artificial in players eyes and simply because of this some players may avoid the sequels - the motivation to learn about the world, the characters simply isn't there in Dishonored series. It almost feels like you're playing some puzzle game sometimes, without any story or characters.

 

[texhnolyze]

The game still has to appeal in order to sell.

But they're all doing well in reviews. Dishonored 2 got 88 on metacritic while Prey got 84. The Evil Within is the only one that's not doing so well with 78 meta so far.

People here loathe every time a GaaS and/or loot boxes topic brought on, but they ignore traditional games without all the bullshit like these ones. If you're actively browsing GAF, there's no way that you don't know these game exist.

 

[NullPointer]

Design, yes, but this is mechanics again, a beautifully designed world with nothing but some rough sketches for the backstory. I always felt that Dishonored world needed to be opened more, explained in the games. Instead of this we're just jumping from one beautiful design to the next one, without any actual explanation of what the hell is even happening here.

There's plenty of the world and it's history to be explored through the environmental storytelling (not only in terms of unique design, but shops, stores, homes, alleyways, major buildings and ads), the books, poetry, notes, maps, art, songs (some of which you can listen to), audio logs and overheard conversations. That's half the draw for me.

 

[CrichtonKicks]

Design, yes, but this is mechanics again, a beautifully designed world with nothing but some rough sketches for the backstory. I always felt that Dishonored world needed to be opened more, explained in the games. Instead of this we're just jumping from one beautiful design to the next one, without any actual explanation of what the hell is even happening here.

In other words, their whole world building with Dishonored exist only to support the gameplay mechanics and because of this they easily forget previously introduced parts of the world lore and even easier add new ones to justify some new power they wanted to create. This hurts the world, makes it artificial in players eyes and simply because of this some players may avoid the sequels - the motivation to learn about the world, the characters simply isn't there in Dishonored series. It almost feels like you're playing some puzzle game sometimes, without any story or characters.

I literally could not disagree with you more in terms of the world. I eagerly devoured every scrap of lore and world building in the games. I would play a game in a different genre just to experience Pandyssia or explore the seas and see more about the whaling trade. The world of Dishonored fires my imagination in ways that most other games simply do not.

 

[Mr. Tibbs]

But they're all doing well in reviews. Dishonored 2 got 88 on metacritic while Prey got 84. The Evil Within is the only one that's not doing so well with 78 meta so far.

Dishonored 2 was indisputably a critical hit, but for Prey, that 84's only on XBOX One. On PS4, the platform with triple the reviews of Xbox, Prey's sitting at 79.

I guess Opencritic would appear to be best place for review aggregates currently available, right? Both Evil Within 2 and Prey are just few points apart there.

http://opencritic.com/game/3589/prey
http://opencritic.com/game/4502/the-evil-within-2

 

[texhnolyze]

Dishonored 2 was indisputably a critical hit, but for Prey, that 84's only on XBOX One. On PS4, the platform with triple the reviews of Xbox, Prey's sitting at 79.

I guess Opencritic would appear to be best place for review aggregates currently available, right? Both Evil Within 2 and Prey are just few points apart there.

http://opencritic.com/game/3589/prey
http://opencritic.com/game/4502/the-evil-within-2

Fair enough.

Sometimes I forgot that GAF couldn't tolerate games 'good' score.

 

[Mr. Tibbs]

Fair enough.

Sometimes I forgot that GAF couldn't tolerate games 'good' score.

It's not that. 79/81 are both decent scores, but if you read the review thread, even before the infamous IGN review, discussion mostly centered around how unfair the reviews were. Prey, like Evil Within 2, was more polarizing than the Dishonored games.

 

[KahooTs]

Marketing or review policy wouldn't have made much difference, these games don't have mass market appeal. Talented people though, shelve the IPs and sprinkle in some people who have a feel for the wider market.

 

[J_Viper]

My hot takes

Dishonored 2 is one of my favorite games of this generation. The top-notch level design is complimented with smooth mechanics and unique powers to create an incredible stealth experience only second to MGSV.

However, for as strong as the art design and environmental storytelling is, the actual narrative is just dull. The protagonist went from non-existent in the first game, to completely unmemorable in this sequel. That lack of any strong character work, I feel, is a major reason why D2 failed to connect with the wider audience.

Even if Beth weren't fucking morons and didn't hide the reviews, which ended up quite high, I don't think that would have made a huge difference.

For Prey, it boils down to the complete lack of press, and more importantly, the game not being fun to play at all.

As an exploration sim, it excels. Poking around the gorgeous interior of the shuttle could be quite a relaxing experience.

Whenever combat was introduced however, that enjoyment quickly disappears. Dealing with weapons that had no sense of impact and powers that are too restrictive had me dreading any hostile encounter. By comparison, even the first Bioshock had tighter combat mechanics.

It's too early to say what went down with TEW2.

Again, the game was hidden for quite a while, and I'd wager that, alongside the mixed reception of the first game, is what ultimately caused a drop in consumer interest.

From what I've played, it's very interesting, and certainly mechanically superior to the first, but I can't dig in as much as I'd like because THE PC VERSION IS BROKEN

and in that regard, it deserves to fail.

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

However, for as strong as the art design and environmental storytelling is, the actual narrative is just dull. The protagonist went from non-existent in the first game, to completely unmemorable in this sequel. That lack of any strong character work, I feel, is a major reason why D2 failed to connect with the wider audience.

For me it was just a combination of explicitness and incompleteness. In the first game Corvo is silent, the story has some twists/turns and stuff like the Outsider was cool and mysterious. In 2 characters are yapping all the time with their inner thoughts, the villain is entirely straight forward and their motivations and details were explained in some DLC I never played for the first game and they more or less spilled the beans on the outsider entirely in cutscenes without much / any buildup or payoff. It's just like oh yeah btw the outsider was created in this ritual here take a look. Do we really need to see that? It also was a major tease by basically not showing you the intervening time between Emily becoming empress and things going belly up.

 

[JustSomeone]

This sequence will be broken in a month when skyrim releases on switch

 

[Seyfert]

These pure SP cinematic campaign level-based/semi open area game while I really love this genre but mainly I think most people found out that $60 for this kind of game is a bit hard to swallow compare to massive open world game at the same price point. if it actually like $50 I think it should help, for many that live in US, get the pre-order deal that actually costs the game $50 or less is far easier than people who are not live in US/Europe.

In the end of the day, I hope these kind is not die down and the sign is not good. It looks like Beth just release their last batch of SP game out to the wild just to put an end to them and start a new, fresh approach onward.

 

[Gaogaogao]

sort of put off by the lack of polish in the sound mixing and sound design in prey.
the jump scare sound effects feel like the game aspires to be a bad horror film. too loud and too often.
but its still more interesting to me than dishonored.

This sequence will be broken in a month when skyrim releases on switch

and wolfenstein

 

[n0razi]

Bethesda are pumping out some of the best games in the industry right now. It blows my mind to see games like those under perform. It's crazy.

Thats how I felt about Eidos-Montreal

 

[GavinUK86]

Thats how I felt about Eidos-Montreal

Ugh, don't even remind me about the death of Deus Ex.

 

[gogosox82]

Their strategy of not marketing the game or giving out review codes and just relying on streamers and youtubers for marketing is terrible. It isn't working.

 

[Lord of Ostia]

This is a problem entirely of their own doing. This is what happens when you don't market your games nor give out early review copies. They get lost in the shuffle, especially during the Fall rush. It's a shame because all of these games are good, but no one realizes they are even out. Wolfenstein is the exception, and it will probably sell really well.

 

[Bl@de]

It‘s a shame because I love their singleplayer games. Bethesda is the best publisher when it comes to games like this.

 

[Spyder_Monkey]

But they're all doing well in reviews. Dishonored 2 got 88 on metacritic while Prey got 84. The Evil Within is the only one that's not doing so well with 78 meta so far.

People here loathe every time a GaaS and/or loot boxes topic brought on, but they ignore traditional games without all the bullshit like these ones. If you're actively browsing GAF, there's no way that you don't know these game exist.

Said games also have to be you know... good?

 

[comshoplesce]

maybe offering demo would help?

 

[dex3108]

maybe offering demo would help?

Prey and Dishonored 2 got demos after launch. And those demos are big chunk of the game.

 

[texhnolyze]

Said games also have to be you know... good?

Read my post after that, perhaps?

Also, if you keep ignoring 'mediocre' SP games, it's only a matter of time until the only SP games are only created by the big 3 console makers, with MTs and/or loot boxes attached into them.

 

[DJwest]

Like lime I need to try Prey...

OT: it's really sad, they're like one of the few publishers who still give a damn about great single player experiences. I hope that they refuse their marketing strategy and keep pushing SP games

 

[TRUE ORDER]

Bethesda should reconsider their marketimg method...

 

[hooijdonk17]

Its a shame people will buy morencopies of FO4 than Prey.

 

[Valdega]

For Prey, it boils down to the complete lack of press, and more importantly, the game not being fun to play at all.

As an exploration sim, it excels. Poking around the gorgeous interior of the shuttle could be quite a relaxing experience.

Whenever combat was introduced however, that enjoyment quickly disappears. Dealing with weapons that had no sense of impact and powers that are too restrictive had me dreading any hostile encounter. By comparison, even the first Bioshock had tighter combat mechanics.

Eh? How far into Prey did you actually get? Did you get any weapon upgrades or neuromods? Did you at least get the shotgun? In the early game, you're pretty weak but by midgame, you're more than capable of taking on anything that gets in your way. By the end game, you're basically a god (and that's on the highest difficulty).

I also find the Bioshock comparison flawed. The gunplay in Bioshock was never very satisfying (except in Infinite). Prey's gunplay was much stronger and I enjoyed using all of the weapons. I also don't see how the powers are any more restrictive than the ones in Bioshock. You have an ability that lets you morph into any small object (including turrets). You have an ability that lets you pick up and throw a wide variety of objects. You have an ability that lets you turn corpses into friendly aliens. You have an ability that lets you mind control enemies. You have an ability that lets you reverse gravity in a localized area. Almost all of Prey's abilities were more versatile than the ones in Bioshock.

 

[ChazGW7]

I only know of Doom and Fallout 4 doing very well for them this generation. A shame as well because they make the most different games from all AAA publishers.

I think that would be Ubisoft

 

[GifGafIsTheBestGaf]

Wolf 2 is gonna sell big time

 

[JustSomeone]

Said games also have to be you know... good?

That's not how It works lol.
A game's quality has nothing to do with its sales

Spoiler

or its popularity on GAF

 

[PantsuJo]

I think that Wolfenstein 2 is going to be a success.

I'm not so sure about Skyrim and Doom on Switch but we'll see soon.

 

[Blue Ninja]

They need to market their shit better. They're actually doing a decent job on Wolfenstein, but no reviews before launch isn't doing them any favors.

 

[Godan]

For me personally i feel like the next Elder Scrolls or fallout game has to be good from them or i won't brother with what they do as much anymore. Fallout 4 was extremely disappointing for me and while Skyrim was amazing the year it came out the constant re release of the game has kinda rubbed me the wrong way.

 

[SMG]

maybe offering demo would help?

A piece came out not too long ago detailing how demos can hurt sales. And Prey did have a demo, one that unsold me on the game.

 

[Arkanius]

Let's see what happens with Wolfenstein.
Unlike all the other examples, it's getting LOT'S of marketing. And it's on point.

 

[Mr Swine]

Is almost 1 million for Dishonored 2 bad if we go on steamspy? Prey is at almost 500k which is not good

 

[johannesbergcrantz]

They are making good games and thats the hard part. To start marketing those games would be very easy.

 

[Diprosalic]

Shame that their better games "flop" while mediocre products like Fallout 4 are flourishing.

 

[CoLaN]

Twitch marketing doesnt actually work well for the vast majority of games. By focusing on that kind of marketing they are just letting people watch their singleplayer story driven games on a stream (often even pre-release, are they crazy?), where many people feel satisfied by just following the playthrough without buying anything.

The massive hits like PUBG, mostly multiplayer games, can get a good help from Twitch, but there were big hitters before streaming was a thing anyway.

The Twitch focused marketing seemed like a delicious occasion for them, but its biting them hard and im actually sad because those games are very good.

 

[Bedameister]

Bethesda are pumping out some of the best games in the industry right now. It blows my mind to see games like those under perform. It's crazy.

Yeah. It's breaking my heart. Bethesda releases the best games out of all publishers yet they under-perform.
They really need to change their marketing or something.

 

[Infinite_Daremo]

Don't worry Skyrim port for iOS and Android, PS5, XBOX2 and Switch 2 will make up the deficit.

 

[leng jai]

Eh? How far into Prey did you actually get? Did you get any weapon upgrades or neuromods? Did you at least get the shotgun? In the early game, you're pretty weak but by midgame, you're more than capable of taking on anything that gets in your way. By the end game, you're basically a god (and that's on the highest difficulty).

I also find the Bioshock comparison flawed. The gunplay in Bioshock was never very satisfying (except in Infinite). Prey's gunplay was much stronger and I enjoyed using all of the weapons. I also don't see how the powers are any more restrictive than the ones in Bioshock. You have an ability that lets you morph into any small object (including turrets). You have an ability that lets you pick up and throw a wide variety of objects. You have an ability that lets you turn corpses into friendly aliens. You have an ability that lets you mind control enemies. You have an ability that lets you reverse gravity in a localized area. Almost all of Prey's abilities were more versatile than the ones in Bioshock.

The combat in Prey isn't fun, it's one of the most common complaints (aside from the dismal sound mixing). Personally I found it middling at best until the last 2 hours where it just became extremely tiresome.

 

[shimon]

Is almost 1 million for Dishonored 2 bad if we go on steamspy? Prey is at almost 500k which is not good

Maybe it's not bad (especially compared to Prey) but it's not a success either imo.

I have a bad feeling we will be seeing less and less SP games. Unfortunately.

 

[Jacknapes]

Bethesda need to adapt how they publicize their games, Death of an Outsider seemed to just slip out with not much advertising. It got decent reviews, and it's on my radar once i cleared Dishonored 2.

They make brilliant games, it's just they need to change how they are bought out.

 

[GlamFM]

I think it´s time for Bethesda to treat the press with more respect.

Blacklisting Kotaku does not help for example, same with not giving out review code.

Pete Hines seems a bit arrogant sometimes in that regard.

 

[Triggerhappytel]

Sergei just needs to turn Steamspy numbers off for the first three weeks, just to save my sanity from the hot takes.

This would actually be a good idea. Prevent any misinformation until the sales results have stabilised.

 

[hotcyder]

It's almost as if Streamers aren't a viable advertising source for big games

 

[GlamFM]

It's almost as if Streamers aren't a viable advertising source for big games

Sometimes they are, but it seems to work way better with MP games.

 

[Ganondolf]

It would be interesting to know how many sales they need to break even.

As they used there own engine (except prey) and have little marketing that must of saved them a lot of money.

I feel as long as they make a small profit (which I think doom and Dishonnered has) it may not be as big of a deal as games like fallout and elders scrolls bull in a constant flow of cash.

Games like Tew2 and prey are more likely to get dropped going forward as they may have not made any profit

 

[LinLeigh]

Their marketing is atrocious.

I read plenty of gaming news and even have a gaming telegram group.

Yet I had no idea that the dishonored dlc was stand alone. I will definitely buy it now because the lead character looks great.

The lack of hype makes it very easy to wait until these games are cheap.

 

[Keasar]

They better not stop though, publishing great singleplayer games made by other studios is the one thing I think Bethesda is excellent at.

They certainly can't make their own anymore.