Support NeoGAF

[Surfside]

Having said that and probably contradicting myself, didn't Dishonoured 1 perform decently?

Yeah according to Wiki it was the second best selling game during it's launch week. Only behind Fifa 13.

In North America it was the fourth best selling game for the month of october. And then we have the Steam sales, but i don't know the launch numbers.

I would say it sold pretty well. I hope they are satisfied with the sale of the second game and Prey.
So we get to see more from Arcane.

Or it could be like you said and they support them for the good reception these games get. Like big movie studios who release art movies, knowing they won't sell well.

Is that something could happen in the games business?
I guess it depends how much they invested.

 

[Give War A Chance]

Their current marketing strategy is utter trash, it doesn't work

Precisely what I was thinking. I didn't realize ANY of those games had launched until after they had launched. The Prey demo was the only real marketing that did anything for me with that game, and the other 2 I don't remember anything about.

They need to get more aggressive about their approach. Don't beat me over the head with it (or maybe do, because that helps sales, especially if you're a great game) but get it out there so I see in more places than just GAF.

 

[Spyder_Monkey]

Read my post after that, perhaps?

Also, if you keep ignoring 'mediocre' SP games, it's only a matter of time until the only SP games are only created by the big 3 console makers, with MTs and/or loot boxes attached into them.

"By bad games so we could get good games." is incredibly stupid logic.

 

[IXI FalcoN]

I guess I'm part of the problem... I've only purchased Dishonored 2 and DOOM (both within 2 months of launch), but have not bought the rest despite being very interested in all of them. My gaming budget took a hit for the first half of this year so I've had to put off a lot of titles. I finally got around to playing the Old Blood last week. Not as good as the New Order, but I enjoyed it.

I want games like these to continue being made; they've been some of my favorite SP experiences this gen. And I dread an industry that is increasingly marching its AAA output toward the GaaS model riddled with MTs/Lootboxes. I've got Wolf 2 pre-ordered already and I'll make sure to pick the rest up during Black Friday sales.

 

[kliklik]

Well I bought em all at launch. I tried. Prey and Dishonored 2 are fantastic games.

Arkane is the van Gogh of our times. Everyone spits on their work now and won't buy em, so they try to do something they think everyone will enjoy (van Gogh painted sunflowers, hopeful of mass-market appeal and Arkane is trying to do online nonsense). Does it work? No. People still spit on their masterpieces. No recognition while they're still around. Then a hundred years later, collectors are spending hundreds of thousands buying up their rare works.

And you know what happened to the people who spat on van Gogh's paintings? They're in hell now surrounded by 1000 Pollocks flinging paint at them for all eternity. That's what you get. So go buy Arkane's games.

 

[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

Are we sure the games are underperforming? I mean, lack of marketing could mean that Bethesda saves a ton of money on marketing costs.

This is my thinking too.

 

[hotcyder]

Arkane is the van Gogh of our times.

I'd probably say that Arkane is the closest thing we have right now to Looking Glass Studios - at least the mythologised version of the company we all know now.

Considering that their output (Arx Fatalis, Dishonored, Prey) have pretty direct analogues (Ultima Underworld, Thief, System Shock) to the former, not to mention improve on them significantly with more accessible interfaces without compromising on systems - It really is a shame that much like Looking Glass, they're being largely ignored either by poor marketing or general disinterest.

Hopefully it won't take another game like Bioshock to remind people why Arkane is the best of what they do.

 

[Ripenen]

Precisely what I was thinking. I didn't realize ANY of those games had launched until after they had launched. The Prey demo was the only real marketing that did anything for me with that game, and the other 2 I don't remember anything about.

They need to get more aggressive about their approach. Don't beat me over the head with it (or maybe do, because that helps sales, especially if you're a great game) but get it out there so I see in more places than just GAF.

More places like where? YouTube? TV? Billboards? Spotify? Facebook?

There are so many marketing channels now. Some work, some don't. The cost varies wildly from channel to channel. What's the last game that had a really good pre-launch marketing campaign?

 

[arevin01]

I'm pretty sure Beth know what they are doing not marketing these games. Most of their budget is for Skyrim only.

 

[Slixshot]

Do we know any of the budgets of these games? A lot of the time, marketing tends to be the most expensive aspect of a company, so if they aren't spending anything on marketing then maybe their break even points are significantly lower.

 

[_Aaron_]

Their review policy has probably hurt them. They no longer that that full day of complete coverage when the review embargo ends. Now the reviews trickle out and get buried by other news. Probably results in substantially lower traffic for their game, although I would like to see actual stats from video game websites to confirm this.

 

[Dabi]

I appreciate them announcing games 6 months from launch and meeting their dates, it's just I don't think any of their IP's save for Fallout and Elder Scrolls have that kind of selling power. Combine that with the fact that the marketing is weak and there is no pre release buzz from early review copies it's hard for those games to win.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

Wolfenstein marketing is literally perfect right now. Maybe they are turning it around?

Not the same. Wolfenstein is an old, established, well known brand name, and nazis are a hot button in mainstream politics right now.

High Chaos feels about right.

Damn. You're right though

It's just speculation. But i believe this, because it was so shortly after the games release.

That's a weird assumption. He could have quit after the game released simply because he was done with a project he cared about, and could finally leave before embarking on a new project.

Raphael Colantonio made it very clear, on more than one occasion, that he was stepping down because he's barely stopped working for almost 20 years and is simply exhausted.

Makes sense.

 

[Nheco]

Yeah marketing doesn´t help. Also their games are the most expensive ones on the brazilian Steam store at least.

Resident Evil 7 launched at 99 BRL
Shadow of War launched at 149 BRL

Every Bethesda game launches at 199 BRL, c´mon...

Exactly. That's why I never, buy Bethesda games on launch. The prices are ludicrous.

 

[Surfside]

That's a weird assumption. He could have quit after the game released simply because he was done with a project he cared about, and could finally leave before embarking on a new project..

Yeah that was dumb of me. Speculating into the blue without any hints. But luckily someone set me straight, shortly after i made that assumption.

 

[kliklik]

I'd probably say that Arkane is the closest thing we have right now to Looking Glass Studios - at least the mythologised version of the company we all know now.

Considering that their output (Arx Fatalis, Dishonored, Prey) have pretty direct analogues (Ultima Underworld, Thief, System Shock) to the former, not to mention improve on them significantly with more accessible interfaces without compromising on systems - It really is a shame that much like Looking Glass, they're being largely ignored either by poor marketing or general disinterest.

Hopefully it won't take another game like Bioshock to remind people why Arkane is the best of what they do.

As the philosopher Billy Joel once said, "only the good die young".

And yes, I am *still* bitter about Clover Studio.

 

[DJwest]

Bought Evil Within 1, Wolfenstein TNO, Fallout 4, Doom, Dishonored 1 (on 360 and on PS4) and Dishonored 2. This thread is making me consider buying Prey, I'll get Evil Within 2 when I finish the first and I'm buying Wolfenstein 2 day one. Bethesda is easily one of my favorite publishers this gen.

 

[ninecubed]

The Visceral closure made me think of this thread... sadly. I really hope that there will always be room for creative, unique single player games. I don't much care for the way everything is trending toward always online in the industry.

 

[Aters]

Are we sure the games are underperforming? I mean, lack of marketing could mean that Bethesda saves a ton of money on marketing costs.

lack of marketing means Bethesda knows people won't buy it so they don't throw more money into the pit.

The Visceral closure made me think of this thread... sadly. I really hope that there will always be room for creative, unique single player games. I don't much care for the way everything is trending toward always online in the industry.

No room in AAA scene, but if you look beyond that, there are plenty of creative, unique single player experiences.

 

[ninecubed]

No room in AAA scene, but if you look beyond that, there are plenty of creative, unique single player experiences.

I'm sure you're right; it's just sad to think about a future where games like Dead Space, Prey, Dishonored, Evil Within, etc. will never have a chance to see the light of day. There most likely will be other options (indie, AA), but perhaps none with the budget, resources, etc. that we used to get.

Even something like RDR2 feels like it could be the last of its kind; from a AAA single player standpoint, anyway.

 

[shimon]

The Visceral closure made me think of this thread... sadly. I really hope that there will always be room for creative, unique single player games. I don't much care for the way everything is trending toward always online in the industry.

AAA? Gonna be tough.

 

[RedSwirl]

It sucks too because Bethesda feels like the last publisher putting out a lot of games that can be enjoyed in their entirety without an internet connection.

 

[The_Endgamer]

Skyrim remake probs will buff their margins and is phenomenally successful still.

My bro bought 2 copies of Fallout 4 and all the DLC and I'd imagine he's not alone.

I don't think Bethesda are doing bad and nothing really shows those signs.

 

[KooopaKid]

I have to wonder whether an 80 on metacritic 1 or 2 weeks ago would have been good enough to change The Evil Within 2's fate...

these games just don't reach the heights of a Mario/Zelda/Bloodborne/LastofUs...and people know that

they are effectively B-tier in the minds of consumers.

I am gonna say, there's too much to play right now and the fight for your dollars being a B-tier series is kind of pointless.. sadly so.

Yeah there's too much to play right now so I concentrate on the absolute best.
Prey, Dishonored and TEW2 also don't look like «good fun» to me. They look like stressful games where you have to be meticulous and careful.
I just want to enjoy myself after a day's work.

 

[KonradLaw]

I'd probably say that Arkane is the closest thing we have right now to Looking Glass Studios - at least the mythologised version of the company we all know now.

Considering that their output (Arx Fatalis, Dishonored, Prey) have pretty direct analogues (Ultima Underworld, Thief, System Shock) to the former, not to mention improve on them significantly with more accessible interfaces without compromising on systems - It really is a shame that much like Looking Glass, they're being largely ignored either by poor marketing or general disinterest.

Hopefully it won't take another game like Bioshock to remind people why Arkane is the best of what they do.

With all the direct analogues it makes me wonder how Arkane's take on Terra Nova would end up like

 

[Steve.1981]

That other thread about Dead Space 2 has me wondering. It cost 60 million dollars to make that game, then they spent about another 60 million dollars on marketing, and in the end 4 million copies sold "wasn't enough".

It's interesting to think about Bethesda's new marketing strategy, after reading the information in that thread. I mean, could it be that the money they save on marketing gives these titles like Dishonoured and The Evil Within a better shot at turning a profit? Could it be that simple?

I'm no expert on this stuff, at all. Just thinking out loud. It's quite coincidental.

 

[IXI FalcoN]

That other thread about Dead Space 2 has me wondering. It cost 60 million dollars to make that game, then they spent about another 60 million dollars on marketing, and in the end 4 million copies sold "wasn't enough".

It's interesting to think about Bethesda's new marketing strategy, after reading the information in that thread. I mean, could it be that the money they save on marketing gives these titles like Dishonoured and The Evil Within a better shot at turning a profit? Could it be that simple?

I'm no expert on this stuff, at all. Just thinking out loud. It's quite coincidental.

This might be working for them actually. Spend what you need to make the game and then with a very modest marketing budget you don't need to sell 10+ million copies to be profitable. Bethesda likely knows that outside Elder Scrolls and Fallout the rest of their IPs don't have mass market appeal. So why bother going all in on the marketing? Release a quality game that appeals to the core gaming audience and let word of mouth do the work.

 

[Tigress]

This might be working for them actually. Spend what you need to make the game and then with a very modest marketing budget you don't need to sell 10+ million copies to be profitable. Bethesda likely knows that outside Elder Scrolls and Fallout the rest of their IPs don't have mass market appeal. So why bother going all in on the marketing? Release a quality game that appeals to the core gaming audience and let word of mouth do the work.

This is what I hope to be the case.

What i think is the case is that Bethesda does want to allow SP only games cause there is a market for them still (and they are one of the few catering to it at this point so they don't have much competition). But, they want some way of getting that lucrative MT type money.

Which is why I think you see them trying to find a way to monetize mods in their more popular games. Honestly, I'll say if they do it well I'm not against it at all if it keeps them making SP only games and it's more of add ons to the game rather than pay to fix a purposely overly grindy game (or some other purposely but in bad mechanic put there solely to frustrate you to pay to fix). Also... I will point out Fallout Shelter. I always saw that as the dipping their toes to see how much money they could make that way (and sadly it worked... I tried warning people. So, I am hoping we don't see them start trying some of that stuff in their bigger games but if we do I blame everyone who bought the MTs in fallout shelter).

What I've heard though is they implemented it horribly (like insisting you download all the mods even if you aren't going to buy them and it messing up people's mod orders). And they don't even have anything all that great listed and it's overpriced (and I really object to you have to pay for points to buy the mods... that's always been a BS method).

I hope they listen to feedback and start fixing it to make creation club actually a decent offering at least (I'm not mad about paying for mods. But it does sound like they screwed the pooch in how they implemented it and what they decided to open up with).

 

[old manatee]

and I doubt Quake Champions will perform any better, it's still early access, but virtually no buzz online ...

A shame, Bethesda is one of my favorite studios this generation

Quake Champions is out?

 

[ZOONAMI]

Bought evil within on psn for like $5 and haven’t played it, GI seems to think EW2 is basically just more of the same from the first game. I haven’t bothered playing it still. Maybe I’ll give it a go.

Prey seems like something I’d like so maybe I’ll pick it up on PC. Dishonored 2 I do have on ps4 and have played a few hours. It didn’t really wow me and I never beat the first game.

 

[Rathorial]

Man no one realizes that they gave out advance code for TEW2 to reviewers (though later than they should have) and provided a "normal" day before release embargo as well.

No idea if this was a one-off or if that will be policy moving forward. We should know next week when/if Wolftenstein reviews hit.

Honestly haven't paid attention to the game at all, since Horror isn't usually my thing. I hope that it's not a one-off, and they'll ditch the no early review codes. It hurts consumers, and doesn't appear to be helping Bethesda/Zenimax either.

 

[namabiiru]

I'm sure these are all great games, but I wait until this type of game is $20 before I buy it. It's what I did with Dishonored, Doom, The Evil Within 1, and Wolfenstein TNO. If they launched at $30-40, I'd probably bite, but I don't live in an economic situation anymore where I feel that $60 is worth 10 hours, no matter how good those hours are, if I know I can get all of them for $60 if I just wait. I'm the type of dude that waited to see Blade Runner 2049 at 11 am on a Tuesday so that my ticket and popcorn only cost $6.

The only games I've bought for $45-60 this year are Breath of the Wild, Persona 5, Nier: Automata, Splatoon 2, Arms, Gran Turismo: Sport, and Mario Odyssey, and I think that says something. On the other hand, I bought Hellblade, Cuphead, and Hollow Knight all for full price without thinking twice, and I rented Prey for three days from Redbox. That also says something.

Hopefully Arkane gets to make a Metroid Prime game someday. I'd be so into that.

 

[Spman2099]

It hurts more because these games are all supposed to be varying levels of awesome. I haven't personally purchased any of them because I have a stack of games to finish. That being said, I will buy the new Wolfenstein game because I thought the last one was so great.

I hope that they will be able to see that lackluster marketing, as well as a stupidly jam packed market, were largely the problem here...

 

[Surfside]

That other thread about Dead Space 2 has me wondering. It cost 60 million dollars to make that game, then they spent about another 60 million dollars on marketing, and in the end 4 million copies sold "wasn't enough".

It's interesting to think about Bethesda's new marketing strategy, after reading the information in that thread. I mean, could it be that the money they save on marketing gives these titles like Dishonoured and The Evil Within a better shot at turning a profit? Could it be that simple?

I'm no expert on this stuff, at all. Just thinking out loud. It's quite coincidental.

It would certainly be amazing, if that were to be true. I mean they are very sensitive to costs. Were the teams who worked on Fallout and Skyrim not relatively small, for such projects?

 

[Sulik2]

That other thread about Dead Space 2 has me wondering. It cost 60 million dollars to make that game, then they spent about another 60 million dollars on marketing, and in the end 4 million copies sold "wasn't enough".

It's interesting to think about Bethesda's new marketing strategy, after reading the information in that thread. I mean, could it be that the money they save on marketing gives these titles like Dishonoured and The Evil Within a better shot at turning a profit? Could it be that simple?

I'm no expert on this stuff, at all. Just thinking out loud. It's quite coincidental.

This is actually a really interesting point I had not considered. They kept the dev times down on these games too. They weren't massive five year productions. Bethesda could be turning into the Blumhouse of game development.

 

[Steve.1981]

Were the teams who worked on Fallout and Skyrim not relatively small, for such projects?

I'm pretty sure they were, yeah. Like a couple of hundred people at most. I'm sure I've read that a few times, from trustworthy sources.

I think Arkane are about the same size, incidentally.

There are now 2 teams at Bethesda Game Studios though (and apparently they're working on 2 new titles, neither of which are the next Elder Scrolls), but they only expanded and created the 2nd team after Fallout 4.