Support NeoGAF

[vegohead]

polygon shut the fuck up, we heard this all before and its not true.
triple A driven by shareholders is dying and it cant die fast enough

I've never thought about it that way, I wonder if their company wide policy is to not green lit anything that can't bring in cash after buying the game.

Man....This is a huge blow for gaming. I feel like I'm getting more cynical every day because of this shit. Happy at least we get remasters for old games so their legacy lives on. Gotta be hopeful for something.

 

[KuwabaraTheMan]

I don't expect the AAA industry to ever make a game that appeals to me again. But that's fine, because most of the games I enjoy come from mid-tier developers or indies. Just stop paying attention to what the EAs and Activisions of the world do.

 

[Emperor_Uriel]

Eh, the persistent multiplayer market will get crowded real soon, and there's only so many online games you can keep playing at a given time, which makes the competition even tougher. Multiplayer focused games bombing will be more and more common, until publishers decide it's time to go back to single player content.

This. It's the era of "WoW made Blizzard a gazillion dollars, let's all make MMOs!" all over again. GaaS titles are ultra-expensive, take ages to make, and require too much time for the average consumer to buy more than one or two a year.

Most likely, GaaS will end up being thought of as a new genre altogether, with one or two games dominating it entirely and everyone else backing off when players ignore their "me-too!" attempts.

 

[Crossing Eden]

Single-player games are the only reaon I play videogames. I never ever play online. I just don't. And I'm not the only one.

I don't think videogame publishers realize that by concentrating on online "games as a service" AAA games, they'll accelerate the shrinkage of the videogames market.

Quite literally having the opposite effect. What's the thought process behind a post that completely ignores market realities? :|

 

[nelchaar]

I don't buy into this. Zelda, Horizon, Uncharted, FFXV, all these game dead really well. This is premature doom and gloom because EA can't run a good single player game dev program.

 

[Audioboxer]

From Software don't make a lot of single player games these days. They know which side their bread is buttered (Jolly Cooperation!)

Lies. Only cheats play a From Software game in co-op.

If you really suck on your own

 

[SafeinSound]

There will always be something for everyone. It's like this in every industry. You just have to look for it, or want to. Are AAA games for the most part following the same path? Yes. But there are so many gems out there.

 

[ElBoxyBrown]

Not enough to my liking.

Monster Hunter: World.

Get ready.

 

[Z3M0G]

I'd still say it's pretty handily single-player. If anything the odd duck is Divinity since it has a co-op (in some cases "co-op") option.

I'm OK with any games in that list offering a co-op option to play through the same primarily "Single Player" content.

But that game... I believe it is technically possible to finish it without the online component... but it is nearly impossible.

 

[RichiRamjag]

What's funny is that I mostly avoid AAA titles because of their focus on MP over SP. Sucks that there are less and less big games that focus on the single-player experience over online and loot box driven content, but there are other places and mid-tier games that still scratch that itch for me.

I’ve recently gone down this road as I was burnt out. Been playing stuff like Yakuza 0 and I just picked up that new nier for $20 at Wally World. Been great. I don’t need AAA all the time, I just want fun games. I’ve had more fun playing janky ass Earth defense force than I’ve had playing most of what I purchased last year.

 

[Yearsoflurking]

Just on the already announced stuff

Wolfenstein 2
Xenoblade 2
Assassin's Creed Origins
God of War
RDR2 (probably will have 'some' MP, but unlikely focus)
Detroit
Spider-Man
Days Gone
Last of Us Part 2 (same as RDR2)
WilD
Death Stranding (going on a leg here)
...

I don't see how it's disappearing entirely... But certainly some Publishers have become very risk adverse and going where the (seemingly) big bucks for (probably) less investment are.

Seems like sony is behind the times in this case, hopefully that's not a bad thing on their end. 1 or 2 bombs of those games could be deemed massive considering no continuous revenue

 

[Mareg]

I don't understand that trend.
Maybe I'm getting old. I might not be the target audience for gaming anymore. I grew up in single player heavy games and while I sometimes appreciate local multiplayer (particularly from Nintendo), what I like is to sit down and relax with a great single player experience.

 

[CookTrain]

Lies. Only cheats play a From Software game in co-op.

Ever since Bruce Lee on my Amstrad, the claws have had me deep. I'll Jolly Cheatoperation my way through every game going!

 

[Okami Haundo]

Just finished reading (at the source, not in OP) and found the article to be very informative! There's a pretty great point in there about streaming/Let's Play culture ruining the appeal of single-player games. It may not the be biggest factor in their decline, but it certainly doesn't help.

 

[axisofweevils]

Just on the already announced stuff

Wolfenstein 2
Xenoblade 2
Assassin's Creed Origins
God of War
RDR2 (probably will have 'some' MP, but unlikely focus)
Detroit
Spider-Man
Days Gone
Last of Us Part 2 (same as RDR2)
WilD
Death Stranding (going on a leg here)
...

I don't see how it's disappearing entirely... But certainly some Publishers have become very risk adverse and going where the (seemingly) big bucks for (probably) less investment are.

I think what it is that Sony and Nintendo can afford to invest in these games because they're also selling consoles.

 

[BTA]

I’m always disappointed when I see people counter this argument with niche games or games that may not even have really performed. We just saw news yesterday that dead space didn’t do it for EA despite 4 million sold. Is anyone sure horizon did well?

I think if you just look at the output if publishers over time, it’s clear where this is going even if single player games are not 100% omg eradicated completely.

Single player games can still have mtx and be gaas and other dumb crap.

Pretty much. I don’t fully agree with the article but there’s more to consider than just number of copies sold.

It’s also weird to see people talk about The Last of Us as if the first game didn’t have a (admittedly surprisingly good!) multiplayer mode with microtransactions.

 

[Nirolak]

No? The games having MP components doesn't mean they are not single-player games designed with single player in mind. In fact, as fun as jolly cooperation is, it often breaks the game because encounters aren't balanced for it (and when they are, like the optional areas of DS2's DLCs, people complain xD).

This is why I asked if people consider Wildlands or Dying Light singleplayer games, because what's taking the brunt of this is the types of singleplayer games that are hard to convert to cooperative titles.

A set piece shooter where the game has to be able to continually take control or limit the players is a lot harder to do that in co-op, and we've seen those largely go extinct.

Similarly publishers want games people play for a lengthy amount of time so they're more likely to buy at least something extra like DLC, which is also harder to sell for something like that in an economical fashion.

 

[RichiRamjag]

Seems like sony is behind the times in this case, hopefully that's not a bad thing on their end. 1 or 2 bombs of those games could be deemed massive considering no continuous revenue

What’s the alternative? Compete with the already heavy hitters by making a larger investment? I think Sony is fine with letting third-parties primarily meet those needs for that system.

 

[Acorn]

The best thing about skyrim kicking ass at the market was stopping the advocation of killing off sp from journos, devs and pubs. Looks like it's been long enough we're gonna go through this shit again like it's 2007.

 

[Syysch]

It has become clear that to deliver an experience that players will want to come back to and enjoy for a long time to come, we needed to pivot the design.

Why does your game have to have perpetual appeal? I dont understand this greedy mindset. Just let people finish your game and move on. No other form of media is so obsessed with you buying their product and ONLY their product and spending ALL your time with it.

 

[BanjoLayleeYookaKazooie]

Nioh is the most successful Toei Tecmo game, Persona 5 I take it one of the most successful for Atlus. Resident Evil 7 will be one of the most successful coop-less Capcom games. Nier and Crash Bandicoot shattered all expectations.

There's every chance you add all SKUs of every one of those games together and that number won't reach the highest selling (all online obviously) games of the year across all their SKUs- Battlefront 2, CoD, Ghost Recon Wildlands, Destiny 2, PUBG etc. That's what EA and the others will be after, the gravy train, all of the money, microtransactions and all. Yakuza whatever, Persona 5 and Nioh aren't a blip on the radar of the people who make these decisions relevant to the article.

Heck even your highest selling game you've listed, Resident Evil 7, is proof that going full single player is a detriment to sales. It's underperforming, massively down from its predecessors and has really lacklustre post launch sales, matching what we've know for years that these games are used significantly in renting/borrowing/binging (dunno what the video game term is for that) over a weekend and then flooding the preowned matket. As far as single player games go too as much as you probably don't like hearing it, most of the most successful are not linear- BoTW, Horizon, Souls, FFXV, Mario Odyssey, Ubisoft's many open world games etc.

So yeah I don't think the article and the overall point is nonsense, there's far more emphasis on multiplayer and non-linearity nowadays than single player, even seen with Nintendo with their last couple of successful new IPs (Splatoon and ARMS).

But hey there is obviously light at the end of the tunnel, those games you listed were successful and are probably going to get sequels.

They're not dying, but they're clearly not the focus of the industry, or at the very least the people at EA, one of the biggest publishers in the industry. It is foolish to believe otherwise at this point.

 

[The_Architect]

People seem to be confusing single-player games. There is a difference between games that are essentially like a film and games which are more traditional and do not rely on cinematic storytelling, motion capture, use the latest ground breaking tech, photogrammetry, etc.

 

[I-hate-u]

EA dont manage bethesda

tbh the bethesda games have a certain aesthetic to them that doesn't attract me personally.

But the latest titles have been more silent than usual in terms of marketing imo.

 

[Sesha]

Monster Hunter: World.

Get ready.

I am.

DMC next hopefully. I've wanted optional co-op Souls, NG or Bayonetta-style for ages.

 

[Lupin the Third]

There's barely any more of the article left to read vs. what's in the OP. Following the letter of the law, not the spirit of the law? :-/

Be sure to click the link, gang. Articles are the best part about Polygon.

 

[JeffZero]

Why does your game have to have perpetual appeal? I dont understand this greedy mindset. Just let people finish your game and move on. No other form of media is so obsessed with you buying their product and ONLY their product and spending ALL your time with it.

Perpetual appeal means players stay connected. Players who remain connected are likelier to spend money on microtransactions over a sustained period of time, generating profit for months or even years. Profit that, contrary to the $60 launch, goes straight to the company instead of getting cut up into multiple destinations.

 

[TGO]

I buy more games then most, I'm easily hitting the 100 mark very soon and within a year I probably buy 1 multiplayer game which is usually Call of Duty.
So I don't get this death of SP games
The big AAA SP games are and always will be the main event of any platform and the multiplayer are the intermission.
In fact the biggest games of this and last generation were SP games
Street Fighter V focus of Multiplayer massively damaged the game for example.
So this move by EA is shocking as the reason why I ain't buying Battlefront II this year is because it's a multiplayer focus game and I believe the SP is gonna be an afterthought.
Amy's Star Wars game was the biggest thing on my radar from EA and if they're turning it into another soulless MP game I ain't interested.
Like the Retail market the game industry seems to be really out of touch.

 

[Audioboxer]

Ever since Bruce Lee on my Amstrad, the claws have had me deep. I'll Jolly Cheatoperation my way through every game going!

It's okay, I do it too. I just pretend I managed my platinum trophies offline and using a spoon.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LzFK3TMHeVA

 

[Gaogaogao]

if dead space 2 was a failure it wasnt the devs who failed, it was publisher management.

games can be made and games can make a profit, but not while publishers get in their own way.

 

[Jeronimo Jones]

I believe that publishers will keep pushing for more of these big multiplayer GaaS types.

I just don't think the market will be able to support so many of them trying the same concept. They require a lot of players and are fighting for the same audience.

In the race to nail it, those who get the balance between greed and player expectations wrong will crash and burn. What comes next is the same--more closures and consolidations and round and round we go.

 

[RichiRamjag]

I buy more games then most, I'm easily hitting the 100 mark very soon and within a year I probably buy 1 multiplayer game which is usually Call of Duty.
So I don't get this death of SP games
The big AAA SP games are and always will be the main event of any platform and the multiplayer are the intermission.
In fact the biggest games of this and last generation were SP games
So this move by EA is shocking as the reason why I ain't buying Battlefront II this year is because it's a multiplayer focus game and I believe the SP is gonna be an afterthought.
Amy's Star Wars game was the biggest thing on my radar from EA and if they're turning it into another soulless MP game I ain't interested.
Like the Retail market the game industry seems to be really out of touch.

Same. I pick one or two multiplayer games and that’s all I’ll buy personally. Anything else is SP.

 

[low-G]

Case in Point:

but I can't speak to the Western AAA market or what AAA Western publisher want to do

With friends like these, who needs AAA?

 

[CookTrain]

It's okay, I do it too. I just pretend I managed my platinum trophies offline and using a spoon.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LzFK3TMHeVA

Lobos wins so that we can lose. He is the best of us.

 

[R0ckman]

Just finished reading (at the source, not in OP) and found the article to be very informative! There's a pretty great point in there about streaming/Let's Play culture ruining the appeal of single-player games. It may not the be biggest factor in their decline, but it certainly doesn't help.

I'm older so thats a factor but I honestly don't get the appeal of let's plays with a persona attached.

I'll watch some to get an idea for if a game is right for me, and usually prefer the modest, reserved but informative players over the ones that won't shut up and you can't hear the game audio.

 

[ElBoxyBrown]

What's the alternative? Compete with the already heavy hitters by making a larger investment? I think Sony is fine with letting third-parties primarily meet those needs for that system.

Here's a crazy theory: Sony and Nintendo are killing AAA third-party and Microsoft SP games.

 

[kruis]

Quite literally having the opposite effect. What's the thought process behind a post that completely ignores market realities? :|

Creating games for online gamers with big pockets may be more profitable but if publishers stop writing single player games there'll be less people playing games in total.

 

[Suzzopher]

Didn't Sean Layden say big single player games are PlayStation bread and butter?

Rockstar, Bethesda, Nintendo and SIE will continue to fly the single player flag.

 

[CookTrain]

Creating games for online gamers with bigger pockets may be more profitable but if publishers stop writing single player games there'll be less people playing games in total.

That's the crux of it all really. That money won't be left on the table. If 99% of devs move on, 1% is going to get a big payday.

 

[Okami Haundo]

I'm older so thats a factor but I honestly don't get the appeal of let's plays with a persona attached.

I'll watch some to get an idea for if a game is right for me, and usually prefer the modest, reserved but informative players over the ones that won't shut up and you can't hear the game audio.

I'm honestly right there with you friend. Personally, I can't stand the idea of Let's Plays and will always choose to play a game myself. That being said, I know that folk like us are in a minority and have tons of friends/family that like to watch other people play. I'd imagine they're most popular with younger gamers who would likely have a smaller budget.

 

[axisofweevils]

I believe that publishers will keep pushing for more of these big multiplayer GaaS types.

I just don't think the market will be able to support so many of them trying the same concept. They require a lot of players and are fighting for the same audience.

In the race to nail it, those who get the balance between greed and player expectations wrong will crash and burn. What comes next is the same--more closures and consolidations and round and round we go.

Yep. A few years ago, every game was trying to be CoD. This is just the latest example of pointlessly chasing after the new hotness.

 

[Afrodium]

I think it's specifically linear, 10-15 hour cinematic games that will die out if anything. Sprawling 50-100 hour single player games will stick around.

 

[aygomyownroad]

This year we will have had Nier, Horizon Zero Dawn, super Mario Odd, Zelda, Wolfenstein 2, Cuphead, Uncharted 4 expansion and Prey to name 8 single player games which are highly regarded.

There is a shift from single player games but we are still getting some big ones.

 

[JeffZero]

I'm honestly right there with you friend. Personally, I can't stand the idea of Let's Plays and will always choose to play a game myself. That being said, I know that folk like us are in a minority and have tons of friends/family that like to watch other people play. I'd imagine they're most popular with younger gamers who would likely have a smaller budget.

There are literally dozens of us. I can't do the Let's Play thing.

 

[RichiRamjag]

Here's a crazy theory: Sony and Nintendo are killing AAA third-party and Microsoft SP games.

You may be on to something.

 

[Lokimaru]

Shawn Layden spoke positively about it selling 3.4 mil, and that was in June. It has to have at least another mil under its belt by now.

Is that "doing well"? I don't know, but Sony sure doesn't speak of it like it is underperforming.

If we're looking for a single player game that will under perform, just wait until Detroit comes out. I'll be blown away if that doesn't bomb.

Contrary to popular belief people do like Quantic Dream games. I have every one of David Cages games. Some I have multiple copies of on various systems. I honestly wish more companies would make games like that since it's a s serviceable game play format for delivering good stories. Basically an evolution of the old point and click games with a little Dragon's Lair thrown in to spice things up.

I kind of wish the people making the new Fear Effect games would adopt this model too, I think it would service the game more and be truer to the spirit of the old games what with all the puzzles and instant death if you screw up.

 

[Crocodile]

Critical reception doesn't have a direct correlation with commercial success.

If the average publisher making a AAA game needs to match the quality of games like Breath of the Wild and Horizon then most of them are better off chasing the loot crate // MT action.

While its true that all those game are grouped primarily by their critical acclaim, almost all (all?) of them sold super well. If the argument is that some developers can't make games good enough that they could sell as single-player experiences I can't say I have much sympathy?

 

[Agent Unknown]

Soderlund then went on to say 'I am such a big fan of both Star Wars and single player games that when our other son was born, my wife and I gave him the middle name of Solo!'

 

[Eusis]

To be fair, he did specify linear, cinematic games.

Yeah, there have been less of those and I'm kind of wondering if their success was a fluke in the first place. They're not particularly interactive, there's not much to do after beating if you're not just in for challenging yourself or REALLY like the story, and might just be a poor fit period for a $60 purchase. They're like movies that want you to pay premium collector's Edition prices for the bare bones package, or... well, like buying a TV season a decade or so ago (and is a better match for length), when even that has no allure in lieu of streaming services.

And hell, they were rarely the sort of thing I'd get into, usually if they were they were a good character action game, or just did a damn good job like The Last of Us. Something like Bioshock Infinite is probably an example of going awry following that road rather than a more open world one, as I was really let down by it and a lot of others were too, yet the systems in place could have been used for something that was open world or at least went more open than Bioshock 1 & 2.

 

[Aters]

EA: "Look at Ghost Recon, PUBG and Destiny, what can we do?"
GAF: "But what about Nioh, Persona 5 and Nier!"

 

[kruis]

Seems like sony is behind the times in this case, hopefully that's not a bad thing on their end. 1 or 2 bombs of those games could be deemed massive considering no continuous revenue

That's also true of online multiplayer games that bomb in a horrible way. Lawbreakers anyone? Battleborn?