Along with the others from this year, it casts a lot of doubt on his claims that he doesn't share those views anymore.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
The Last Night: IGN Article [Quack Quack Slurp Slurp]
- Thread starter Bits N Pieces
- Start date
the_darkness
Banned
It's really not beyond the realms of possibility that the guy still holds some shitty opinions but decided to remove said opinions from his game after blowback.
It won't
You are adamant to take his word that the game has changed, yet people are showing he did not change his views even though he claimed that he had grown out of that phase. How are you not seeing this?
We've already established that he's not arguing in good faith. So long as he is allowed to continue to post his low quality bait, I recommend that no one take it.
A game that's been in development since 2014 can have it's entire narrative and themes changed in 6 months?
Relaxed Muscle
Member
Is just not artwork if his work also expresses those views. And no, I dont want to exchange views with racists and sexists.
the_darkness
Banned
That wasn't the narrative. The narrative was about a main character unable to interact with the world around him following an accident.
the_darkness
Banned
I'm happy to keep an open mind.
He's shown his ass regarding his personal opinions about gender and feminism but when it comes to the game, he can't hide: it will come out and it will be about what it's about.
None of us know what the fucking game is about yet only one side is going around calling the other stupid, misogynist, dishonest, shameful and pieces of shit for daring to be interested in it.
Looking at the E3 interview I doubt anything has change.
https://waypoint.vice.com/en_us/art...unk-an-interview-with-the-last-night-designer
Yikes, talk about a dishonest argument.
Muffin1611
Banned
So calling someone misogynist and sexist is worse than being misogynist and sexist is what you're saying.
I mean, there's clear evidence that those are his views and don't have changed.
the_darkness
Banned
No, not really.
See, like this stupid bullshit right here. No mate, that's not what I'm saying at all.
It amazes me the extent to which some gamers will go to defend their hobby above all else, even human decency.
This is just one game. One. More_Badass already listed other great-looking cyberpunk games, and indeed cyberpunk-themed games are experiencing an awesome resurgence right now. I love it because I love the theme. I played Cyberpunk 2020 (the pnp game) througout high school, loved the 16-bit Shadowrun games, and worship Snatcher on Sega CD. Bladerunner is literally my favorite movie.
Do you really care so much about THIS one game that misogyny means less to you than playing it? Honest question. Is this the hill you want to sacrifice your integrity upon, and if you feel differently, where does your integrity lie, exactly? In the semantics about hypothetical intentions of a self-stated bigot?
Cmon, folks. This isn't about being elitist or better. It's a question of what you are willing to tolerate for your hobby.
If you will tolerate anything, then you'll get the worst, and you will have asked for it. Free speech is not just about letting anyone say anything. It's also about people speaking about what others are saying, and what we say (or don't) in response to shit like this.
This is just one game. One. More_Badass already listed other great-looking cyberpunk games, and indeed cyberpunk-themed games are experiencing an awesome resurgence right now. I love it because I love the theme. I played Cyberpunk 2020 (the pnp game) througout high school, loved the 16-bit Shadowrun games, and worship Snatcher on Sega CD. Bladerunner is literally my favorite movie.
Do you really care so much about THIS one game that misogyny means less to you than playing it? Honest question. Is this the hill you want to sacrifice your integrity upon, and if you feel differently, where does your integrity lie, exactly? In the semantics about hypothetical intentions of a self-stated bigot?
Cmon, folks. This isn't about being elitist or better. It's a question of what you are willing to tolerate for your hobby.
If you will tolerate anything, then you'll get the worst, and you will have asked for it. Free speech is not just about letting anyone say anything. It's also about people speaking about what others are saying, and what we say (or don't) in response to shit like this.
the_darkness
Banned
Maybe.
Actually I haven't seen anyone calling anyone stupid, misogynist, dishonest,shameful and pieces of shit for being interested on the game.
I have seen people calling that to the people defending the dev, which is a case where the name calling is 100% accurate.
Muffin1611
Banned
Oh really:
"Only one side is saying all these things". Of course they are, because the other side IS these things. That's exactly what you were trying to say. That the side calling the other side these things is sooooo bad.
The dev was and is these things.
the_darkness
Banned
Me: hey, maybe he's telling the truth and the game isn't about that any more. Let's wait and see.
Response: You're a moron. Stop being a piece of shit.
That's acceptable to you?
samoscratch
Member
Well that sucks.....
I was really digging the art style but there's now way I can support this.
I was really digging the art style but there's now way I can support this.
That you had to make up a post that didn't exist to make your point tells all I need to know. Maybe try to make a actual argument without referencing imaginary boogeymen?
I was out for the last four or five hours, but I'm glad to see that the rest of GAF absolutely eviscerated this straw-man idiocy. Are you fucking serious?
I guess I have to be living in a fucking tree in Alaska to try and exercise any moral judgment whatsoever? Jesus Christ.
Point out those responses, please.
the_darkness
Banned
It's not really a strawman, it's reality.
I've said the whole way along that the guy's personal views seem pretty shady but the vitriol being thrown at the game and those who are interested in seeing how it turns out is disproportionate based on what we know, and don't know about it.
Feel free to judge it. But I'm also free to call out the hypocrisy of you doing so.
Dystopia futures work best when the problems centre around broad human failings. What happens when you let greed go unchecked? What happens when you let fear mean you compromise freedom for security? Take natural human emotions, apply them to a world, follow them to their extremes and in doing so show how far along that path we've already come.
They don't work when you're just showing the extreme opposite to your bullshit political opinion.
The sad thing is that if you took all the gamergate bullshit out, there's something there. What does the extreme welfare state look like? And the game looks beautiful. But the whole feminist angle is obviously offensive, and not at all relevant.
They don't work when you're just showing the extreme opposite to your bullshit political opinion.
The sad thing is that if you took all the gamergate bullshit out, there's something there. What does the extreme welfare state look like? And the game looks beautiful. But the whole feminist angle is obviously offensive, and not at all relevant.
SapientWolf
Trucker Sexologist
He may in fact be a human piece of shit but we have no idea how the game will reflect that until people get their hands on it.
Ridley Scott isn't exactly a paragon of social progress either, after he whitewashed several of his films. But that doesn't make you racist for enjoying Blade Runner.
ldcommando
Banned
Looks so pretty. Will play it
Difference there is that Ridley Scott didn't start making a film while tweeting "Yeah my Egypt is going to be white as shit, like it should be. #FuckTheHaters #WhiteGenocide"
I was wondering when this game would surface again. Such a disappointment. I'm beyond caring if the game still contains some shitty beliefs. Got no interest in giving even the tiniest bit of support to people palling around with hate groups.
"Fuck women trying to make it in this industry. Let's make their lives hell lol! Oh, hey want to buy this neat thing I made?"
Piss off.
"Fuck women trying to make it in this industry. Let's make their lives hell lol! Oh, hey want to buy this neat thing I made?"
Piss off.
Some of yall are owned by games with a strong presentation 😂 sad as shit
This pretty much is a cyberpunk game that doesnt understand what cyberpunk is beyond cyberpunk aesthetics which it took from actual cyberpunk works from film and other kinds of fiction; its the cyberpunk vision of somebody who probably never had to struggle in life 👈🌝
I still think the game will be an indie mega success like Cuphead and that people will ignore all of the visionarys bullshit because hey this is the game industry yall, but personally I dont feel like Im missing out here
This pretty much is a cyberpunk game that doesnt understand what cyberpunk is beyond cyberpunk aesthetics which it took from actual cyberpunk works from film and other kinds of fiction; its the cyberpunk vision of somebody who probably never had to struggle in life 👈🌝
I still think the game will be an indie mega success like Cuphead and that people will ignore all of the visionarys bullshit because hey this is the game industry yall, but personally I dont feel like Im missing out here
I won't support someone like Orson Scott Card because of his terrible homophobic views. Even though, as far as i am aware none of them are reflected in his works. No i won't give him a single penny because i know he uses some of that money to further his agenda.
So why would i give money to this guy who we know still holds GG sympathies and will potentially use that money to express his views and support those beliefs.
Thats why i can't seperate the art from the artist.
So why would i give money to this guy who we know still holds GG sympathies and will potentially use that money to express his views and support those beliefs.
Thats why i can't seperate the art from the artist.
You are setting up a construction such that we have no right to take any moral action unless we meet some arbitrary standard of morality, lest we be branded as hypocrites. The standard that you seem to be holding everyone to is almost *literally impossible* to uphold.
It's a cynical, tired, idiotic worldview, and even if you think it's true, you should shut the fuck up, because it's actively making the world around you a worse place. You're shaming people into not doing good. Someone tries to buy cruelty-free chocolate, for instance, and you shame them by telling them their cell phone's construction plant caused eighteen suicides, and then they no longer bother, because why try if you can't win? Congratulations, you made Earth worse.
Why even bother with this argument? What the fuck is the reason? To score some internet points? This guy is clearly a shitbag, and anyone should be applauded, or at the very least, left alone for valuing compassion above frivolous leisure. And guess what? We're allowed to care about multiple issues at the same time. I care about worker's conditions in China. I care about sustainable farming. There's a limit to what I can achieve, but at least let me fucking try.
Why is lauding someone's work any better than supporting them financially? In either case you're ignoring an artist's (sometimes hideous) opinions or flaws so you can enjoy something you love.
It's selfish and disrespectful either way. But you know what? No one's perfect. Everyone's a hypocrite. People should be allowed to choose which battles to fight. Just like you have chosen (in my opinion, arbitrarily) that supporting someone's work is okay, but supporting someone financially isn't.
Christocolus
Member
I can't wait to play this. Looks amazing.
Posts like these read like they're meant to be taunting people intentionally.
the_darkness
Banned
The difference is that using your analogy, the people eating regular chocolate are being told that they're horrible human beings and the stores stocking it are being shamed for doing so.
Nobody is infallible and yes, it's certainly better to make a stand for something as opposed to nothing but my question is why it's not enough for people to simply make their own decision as to whether or not they want to support this game but instead, hurl insults at those who are willing to see how it turns out.
PunishedOkabe
Member
Is every thread about this game going to be swarmed with people talking about how they aren't buying​ it?
if you're taking a stand on something, that's amazing! But don't criticise others for not doing the same because you can be sure there are a million other issues you should be taking a stand on that you're not.
If you're not taking a stand on something, that's fine. Nobody's perfect. But don't undermine someone for doing something positive, just because they're not taking a stand on everything. Its just not feasible, and it doesn't change the fact that what they're doing is good.
If you're not taking a stand on something, that's fine. Nobody's perfect. But don't undermine someone for doing something positive, just because they're not taking a stand on everything. Its just not feasible, and it doesn't change the fact that what they're doing is good.
Speak for yourselves, IGN. This game certainly didn't win me over. No amount of good art style can save a game from a rotten moral background.
Everyone, stop posting. Only positive feedback is allowed for this game. The creator can't be called out for his revolting ideas.
I don't know if I should be reading this as "it's OK to be a just bit racist and sexist, if you don't really believe in it" or "both sides have good and bad people". Or both.
Doesn't really matter, though. You admit that you're willing to support someone (as in literally give them money) because you like their art, despite of the fact that their are using their art (and your money) to promote extremely toxic ideals. You do you, dude.
Everyone, stop posting. Only positive feedback is allowed for this game. The creator can't be called out for his revolting ideas.
I don't know if I should be reading this as "it's OK to be a just bit racist and sexist, if you don't really believe in it" or "both sides have good and bad people". Or both.
Doesn't really matter, though. You admit that you're willing to support someone (as in literally give them money) because you like their art, despite of the fact that their are using their art (and your money) to promote extremely toxic ideals. You do you, dude.
Scrooge McDuck
Member
I'm not following your train of thought, here. Take The Last Night, here. It's pretty to look at, right? Does the creator having questionable views make the game less pretty to look at?
Why would me admitting that the game is indeed pretty to look at means that I ignore the creator's opinion? Me lauding it's graphical accomplishment doesn't mean that I won't find any other part of the game objectionable. It doesn't mean I would ultimately enjoy it.
Or maybe it's people who didn't read OP (which is usually half of GAF) and don't know about the controversy.
Jesus guys, you look thirsty for blood. The dev is clearly a moron and a piece of shit as far as his views are concerned, and I doubt he changed his mind, but maybe just don't jump at the throat of everyone interested in the game.
Also, in response to something someone said before, yes we need to talk with racists and sexists too, or else how do you expect to change their mind? Wanna commit mass murder? Imprison them all? Ban them all from the forum? If you don't talk to people and show them why they are wrong you'll just blind yourself to reality, by keeping them far away from you, creating a safe place or an echo chamber, while nothing changes.
I live in Europe, Italy, where we currently have a pretty big immigration problem, I'm dealing with moronic people on a daily basis, spouting hate and nonsense. I can't go "nananana" and close my ears, or tell them to fuck off; I talk with them, I try to understand what they say and I use that to show them why and where they're wrong in a logic and comprehensible way.