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[BBQ_of_DOOM]

I think you're on the right track. But what I have in front of me is certainly enjoyable.

It is, I just wish more folks gave it a chance. It's truly a great experience.

So they had the artists etc work part-time instead? It's not like they'd be working on the matchmaking system.

The logic honestly doesn't hold. If the game were like Rainbow Six Siege, it'd be a different matter. The different focus would mean each contributing member of staff would be making content different from what they would for a traditional Rainbow Six game. Basically everyone working on GTS however should logically be doing the exact same job they'd always be doing. Whether that be modelling cars, working on the graphics engine, improving the physics modelling, etc... very few members of staff should have their work impacting by a different server implementation.

How does the logic not hold? You're reading way too into my comment here. They quite clearly prioritized some things over others--it's why we got the game we did and not the game a lot of folks wanted. I'm not even sure if I would make the same choices as they did; hell, when reading about nuts and the HDR (although incredible), I too think they should have focused on building a better foundation out of the gate.

Regardless of what it was rebuilt around, it was still rebuilt. That's why it took so long.

 

[BBQ_of_DOOM]

delete double double

 

[Jaguar Victory]

I just looked up scores for some games on the shelf close to me, Final Fantasy X/X-2, Mario Rabbids, Breath of the Wild, Valkyria Chronicles Remastered... all of them have user scores above 80

I like Metacritics user scores because they are more honest and to the point. You don't have to worry about the journalist-publisher relationship getting in the way, and they address things that video game websites gloss over.

The games you looked up aren't fanboy fodder.

 

[onanie]

So they had the artists etc work part-time instead? It's not like they'd be working on the matchmaking system.

The logic honestly doesn't hold. If the game were like Rainbow Six Siege, it'd be a different matter. The different focus would mean each contributing member of staff would be making content different from what they would for a traditional Rainbow Six game. Basically everyone working on GTS however should logically be doing the exact same job they'd always be doing. Whether that be modelling cars, working on the graphics engine, improving the physics modelling, etc... very few members of staff should have their work impacting by a different server implementation.



The bolded is exactly what I'm trying to say. The online focus isn't why the game is what it is. If it were intended to be a traditional Gran Turismo game, it would either be releasing today light on content, or it would still be deep in development. The current focus on online is being portrayed as the reason the game is lacking content, when logically it'd be the other way around.

Bbq and yautja have answered this quite well.

 

[Egida]

Not true at all. Not that user scores are always a good indication of anything but at the same time low scores usually have a cause.



It's not console wars usually. Take any universally praised exclusive like UC2 & TLOU and you'll find high user scores.

In this case I think the console warrior effect may be stronger, as they are both racing games, both exclusives and have been released very close. One being the alternative to the other, and the platform honor bring the crazies in many people.

 

[BBQ_of_DOOM]

Bbq and yautja has answered this quite well.

I could have sworn I said they rebuilt it? At least once?

 

[onanie]

I could have sworn I said they rebuilt it? At least once?

I know

 

[Synth]

How does the logic not hold? You're reading way too into my comment here. They quite clearly prioritized some things over others--it's why we got the game we did and not the game a lot of folks wanted.

Because a focus on a different mode would only logically have that effect, if that different mode didn't have all its content overlap with the standard modes that would be offered. Having an online focus doesn't cause less cars or tracks to be modelled. On the other hand knowing that in 2017 you're only going to have a limited number of cars and tracks would logically change which aspect of the game you made the focus.

The lack of content isn't due to it being online focused. It's due to Polyphony taking forever to develop the game, and their prior future-proofing plans not panning out.

 

[BBQ_of_DOOM]

Because a focus on a different mode would only logically have that effect, if that different mode didn't have all its content overlap with the standard modes that would be offered. Having an online focus doesn't cause less cars or tracks to be modelled. On the other hand knowing that in 2017 you're only going to have a limited number of cars and tracks would logically change which aspect of the game you made the focus.

The lack of content isn't due to it being online focused. It's due to Polyphony taking forever to develop the game, and their prior future-proofing plans not panning out.

They rebuilt the entire game and then prioritized certain things over others in the course of doing so. Who knows how big the online component was in that, but I'm sure it had some measure of effect.

How many different ways can we restate the same thing here? I don't even disagree with you!

 

[inner-G]

Having an online focus doesn't cause less cars or tracks to be modelled. On the other hand knowing that in 2017 you're only going to have a limited number of cars and tracks would logically change which aspect of the game you made the focus.

You can make a great GT game with less than 200 cars. GT3 A-Spec is LOVED by many fans and had just over 150 cars.

You can use the same tracks for Cup events, FF Challenge, Japanese Sportscar Championship, etc. You don't need 1,100 cars and a brazillion tracks to make a good Gran Turismo game.

The assets are there, they just chose not to make it.

 

[onanie]

Because a focus on a different mode would only logically have that effect, if that different mode didn't have all its content overlap with the standard modes that would be offered. Having an online focus doesn't cause less cars or tracks to be modelled. On the other hand knowing that in 2017 you're only going to have a limited number of cars and tracks would logically change which aspect of the game you made the focus.

The lack of content isn't due to it being online focused. It's due to Polyphony taking forever to develop the game, and their prior future-proofing plans not panning out.

Hmm you certainly have beef with PD taking their own sweet time.

You are confusing cause and effect. PD did what they could in terms of content. The online component is not the reason for the lack of content. It is simply what makes the game good.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

Just checking up and it seem to be getting reviews like what most expect .
Lack of content and direction GT going as the 2 main problems .
Seem everything else is good.

 

[BBQ_of_DOOM]

Hmm you certainly have beef with PD taking their own sweet time.

You are confusing cause and effect. PD did what they could in terms of content. The online component is not the reason for the lack of content. It is simply what makes the game good.

Bingo.

 

[ghibli99]

The games you looked up aren't fanboy fodder.

Final Fantasy and Zelda not fanboy fodder? What world are you living in?

 

[Shambalakan]

GT is one of my favorite series and GT4 is in my top 3 of all times. LOVED every game from GT3 and GT4 to concept version and GT5/6. But really HATE GTS, an online game 4 years after previous one. A slap to GT players like me who like to play classic campaign.
Yes, that's a paradox but I'm a GT fan and I'm happy with this scores! Maybe these scores can teach Kaz something. Sales numbers will be great though, but should wait and see them compared to previous games.

 

[Synth]

They rebuilt the entire game and then prioritized certain things over others in the course of doing so. Who knows how big the online component was in that, but I'm sure it had some measure of effect.

How many different ways can we restate the same thing here? I don't even disagree with you!

Well, you do seemingly disagree with the hard separation between content and the focus on a different online mode.

I don't disagree with you about them prioritising different things in general, such as the HDR. All I'm saying is that those other things aren't directly connected to it being online. They'd apply just as much to a single-player focused Gran Turismo.

I started this out asking what people would believe would be required to add a Sport-like mode to other current racers. Naturally anything involving stuff like HDR, or modelling the nuts and stitching on the cars isn't in scope for that question.

 

[Unknown?]

Eh, it totally doesn't deserve that 75. Shame. Veery close to DriveClub's 71.

Well it’s still missing many of the reviews on the first page here and only has 24 reviews, that’s not even half of what it’ll end up with. I don’t expect it to go up or down 10 points but still not close to being final.

 

[BBQ_of_DOOM]

Well, you do seemingly disagree with the hard separation between content and the focus on a different online mode.

I don't disagree with you about them prioritising different things in general, such as the HDR. All I'm saying is that those other things aren't directly connected to it being online. They'd apply just as much to a single-player focused Gran Turismo.

I started this out asking what people would believe would be required to add a Sport-like mode to other current racers. Naturally anything involving stuff like HDR, or modelling the nuts and stitching on the cars isn't in scope for that question.

No, I don't. I should have made the initial response to you clearer, and have been paying for that lack of clarity ever since (apparently).

The only reason I engaged in this is because content discussions aside, I think there's a decent amount of underselling with what they've done with matchmaking and presenting the online stuff.

 

[cakely]

Genuine question, what does GT have for online functionality that Forza doesn't?

Forza pretty much has everything I'd want it to have, other than cups.

An etiquette rating, which is used for matchmaking. Qualifying laps for each race, which make a huge difference, and yes, tournament cups.

Sport mode has so far been the big draw for me, especially now that I can run races non-stop instead of three times an hour.

 

[Yautja_Warrior]

Well it’s still missing many of the reviews on the first page here and only has 24 reviews, that’s not even half of what it’ll end up with. I don’t expect it to go up or down 10 points but still not close to being final.

Do we know if any of those early (good) reviews will make it on MC ? They have been out a while now and still haven't been added to the score, while other newer reviews have been added.

There are a lot of 8/10 and some 9/10 scores that really should be put on MC.

 

[IISANDERII]

Sure some did, unfortunately PD can't please everyone but some of us love this new, more focused and higher quality GT, even if it is lighter in content right now.

“Lighter in content” is ridiculously oversimplified.
I spent a ridiculous amount of time with GT5 and 6 and GTS expands on what made me keep going back.

 

[1er tigre]

I can't believe it gets a 75 metascore. The game is so much better than that.

 

[MaDKaT]

Seems IGNs score was just enough to bring it down.

 

[Synth]

No, I don't. I should have made the initial response to you clearer, and have been paying for that lack of clarity ever since (apparently).

The only reason I engaged in this is because content discussions aside, I think there's a decent amount of underselling with what they've done with matchmaking and presenting the online stuff.

That's fair. I should also reiterate that I'm not making a call on the value of GTS' Sport mode. I've been drawing a comparison throughout the thread with Trueskill in Halo 2, which bascially rewrote how we do matchmaking in all online games, compared with the traditional server-browser model that was the standard when it was introduced.

I was just suggesting that the implementation of such a system, and even the hooks that make it work, shouldn't have much of an effect on what the game offers in regards to content. This is the part that we then seemingly agree on. That car and track counts would probably be roughly the same either way.

As inner-G stated above (apoologies for not addressing each post individually, but the thread moves fast), the content is technically there, even if there is less of it. Fashioning a single-player campaign out of what's there wouldn't be a significant undertaking, much like adding arcade mode to Street Fighter V wouldn't be, considering the characters, stages and everything else would be the same as what already allows for the online play. This is what I mean by the online focus not justifying the lack of single-player stuff. This extends to stuff like the VR mode not having Time Trial. How does that even happen? Everything's already there for it. Why is it absent?

 

[Yautja_Warrior]

“Lighter in content” is ridiculously oversimplified.
I spent a ridiculous amount of time with GT5 and 6 and GTS expands on what made me keep going back.

I like to keep it simple, I ain't got the interests to go full on in depth just for a review thread. I loved the old games and so far I love GT Sport for being something different for a change, that's as complicated as it gets for me with this game.

 

[Tutomos]

75 is a good score. It is a good game not a great game yet. It has the potential to be a great game.

 

[BBQ_of_DOOM]

That's fair. I should also reiterate that I'm not making a call on the value of GTS' Sport mode. I've been drawing a comparison throughout the thread with Trueskill in Halo 2, which bascially rewrote how we do matchmaking in all online games, compared with the traditional server-browser model that was the standard when it was introduced.

I was just suggesting that the implementation of such a system, and even the hooks that make it work, shouldn't have much of an effect on what the game offers in regards to content. This is the part that we then seemingly agree on. That car and track counts would probably be roughly the same either way.

As inner-G stated above (apoologies for not addressing each post individually, but the thread moves fast), the content is technically there, even if there is less of it. Fashioning a single-player campaign out of what's there wouldn't be a significant undertaking, much like adding arcade mode to Street Fighter V wouldn't be, considering the characters, stages and everything else would be the same as what already allows for the online play. This is what I mean by the online focus not justifying the lack of single-player stuff. This extends to stuff like the VR mode not having Time Trial. How does that even happen? Everything's already there for it. Why is it absent?

Having not played a GT since 4, what do you think they could/should add to round out the SP stuff? A championship?

I think there's a lot there, it's just a bit boring for me (right now). I would love a championship, though. Or several.

Re: VR, it's baffling that they don't have TT. Absolutely baffling.

75 is a good score. It is a good game not a great game yet. It has the potential to be a great game.

Agreed.

 

[Hojaho]

So they had the artists etc work part-time instead?

It’s known that Turn10 outsourced most of their cars models (+ maybe reused some old assets), whereas PD is doing it internally with a small team and started all the cars from scratch and with a higher quality. Nothing new here.

The argument about the « online focus » is more about the lack of Spec A / Old school GT campaign than anything.

 

[Moze]

75 is a good score. It is a good game not a great game yet. It has the potential to be a great game.

Not a particularly good score compared to the competition though.

 

[Jaguar Victory]

Final Fantasy and Zelda not fanboy fodder? What world are you living in?

Generally for those titles it's fans of the series themselves that pick and choose favorites and bicker but generally wont outright trash it with zeros. (Like Halo).

 

[Servbot24]

In the hour or so I've been able to play this it's been exquisite. Extremely high quality and the content seems substantial if not as much as previous games.

However I'm sick of not being able to play, or starting play and then losing connection resulting in me losing all my progress. I'm about to try and get a refund from Amazon. I hope to buy it again later on.

 

[Putty]

GREAT game...Love it. A few more gameplay additions away from greatness.

 

[NullPointer]

75 is a good score. It is a good game not a great game yet. It has the potential to be a great game.

In a vacuum sure, but not relative to previous GTs and other sim racers on the market right now.

 

[Jaguar Victory]

In the hour or so I've been able to play this it's been exquisite. Extremely high quality and the content seems substantial if not as much as previous games.

However I'm sick of not being able to play, or starting play and then losing connection resulting in me losing all my progress. I'm about to try and get a refund from Amazon. I hope to buy it again later on.

That.... escalated quickly

 

[BBQ_of_DOOM]

In the hour or so I've been able to play this it's been exquisite. Extremely high quality and the content seems substantial if not as much as previous games.

However I'm sick of not being able to play, or starting play and then losing connection resulting in me losing all my progress. I'm about to try and get a refund from Amazon. I hope to buy it again later on.

Really hoping the connectivity issues are just launch week shenanigans. If they persist beyond next week, I can see plenty doing the same.

 

[Y2Kev]

How are load times

 

[Hojaho]

How are load times

Decent. Not as fast as Driveclub though.

 

[drugstore_cowboy]

75% is not a good score god damnit.

It's the premium racing franchise, a mega budget monster with a 20 year history that's seen off a dozen pretenders... tens of millions have bought into and enjoyed GT.

A brave move ditching everything almost everything that made 1-6 popular but time will tell how smart it was.

 

[Insane Metal]

75% is not a good score god damnit.

It's the premium racing franchise, a mega budget monster with a 20 year history that's seen off a dozen pretenders... tens of millions have bought into and enjoyed GT.

A brave move ditching everything almost everything that made 1-6 popular but time will tell how smart it was.

Spoiler

I agree with everything you said.

 

[Synth]

Having not played a GT since 4, what do you think they could/should add to round out the SP stuff? A championship?

I think there's a lot there, it's just a bit boring for me (right now). I would love a championship, though. Or several.

Re: VR, it's baffling that they don't have TT. Absolutely baffling.

I'm not exactly brimming with ideas in regards to how the single player mode should be structured. I think maybe given the Sport mode focus, the single-player mode could take a leaf out of Virtua Fighter 4 Evo's playbook, offering a campaign that aims to mirror the long-term sense of progression that you'd be expecting from the online mode. You could start players out much in the way they already do with teaching the driving basics, and then simulate your progression through various division and "online" tournaments, where your safety rating ranks up or down depending on your race behaviour against the AI (that would be simulating different online players... just without drivatar-esque disregard for life). This would then grant you entry to more prestigious competition with faster car classes, or one-one-one challenges from other notable competitors. Hell, you could even have the players work their way up towards the GT Academy with the aim for being noticed by race teams. All this would basically just be light curation of content (and systems) that already exists within the game, but would last someone weeks if they didn't feel like playing the game online, much like it did in Virtua Fighter (or Soul Calibur's Quest Mode).

It's known that Turn10 outsourced most of their cars models (+ maybe reused some old assets), whereas PD is doing it internally with a small team and started all the cars from scratch and with a higher quality. Nothing new here.

The argument about the « online focus » is more about the lack of Spec A / Old school GT campaign than anything.

Yea, I think we're mostly past the talk of content in terms of assets. That was mostly a result of some miscommunication. With the general agreement being that the amount of asset content likely didn't hinge on it being online focused or not, it becomes more about why more compelling single-player content wasn't able to be fashioned out of what is already there.

 

[Egida]

Just imagine if they had somehow managed to bring about 200 cars and more variety and thus a career mode. With the premium feel this game boasts, the excellent online play, amazing visuals and superb handling.

We would be talking 95 metascore IMO. A dream of a game.

 

[Tutomos]

I think it's fair you guys can judge it against the competition and previous games. I'm just judging it by what it is. The cover of the game doesn't even feature a car prominently. It's all about the person that's doing the driving. Make people better at driving and not about collecting cars.

 

[Synth]

I think it's fair you guys can judge it against the competition and previous games. I'm just judging it by what it is. The cover of the game doesn't even feature a car prominently. It's all about the person that's doing the driving. Make people better at driving and not about collecting cars.

You could still aim for that whilst catering to players that would rather play offline though, as per my previous post suggestion.

 

[MaDKaT]

Yea, I think we're mostly past the talk of content in terms of assets. That was mostly a result of some miscommunication. With the general agreement being that the amount of asset content likely didn't hinge on it being online focused or not, it becomes more about why more compelling single-player content wasn't able to be fashioned out of what is already there.

I think it may have to do with the selection of cars. It simply isnt varied enough for anything close to a legacy type campaign.


Late edit
Sort of leaves you with only the option of maybe single make or limited class races. Honestly not unlike how Forza 7 handled their campaign. A set of races that you can only select from a very small pool of cars. Felt very limiting and unsatisfying.

 

[BBQ_of_DOOM]

I think it may have to do with the selection of cars. It simply isnt varied enough for anything close to a legacy type campaign.

I am hoping (against hope, probably) for some vintage racing Porsches.

 

[MaDKaT]

I am hoping (against hope, probably) for some vintage racing Porsches.

Oh absolutely.

 

[Z3M0G]

The foundation should be set to fill out more content for a full GT7 release before the end of this gen...

Spoiler

if they care to

 

[Graphics Horse]

It's known that Turn10 outsourced most of their cars models (+ maybe reused some old assets), whereas PD is doing it internally with a small team and started all the cars from scratch and with a higher quality. Nothing new here.

The argument about the « online focus » is more about the lack of Spec A / Old school GT campaign than anything.

Why should anyone believe this. 1/3 of the cars represented in GT Sport were added in GT6, they didn't scrap that work, you don't need to start a car from scratch to replace some leather textures. There is nothing wrong with using the car models from the PS3 as a base, they're insanely detailed as it is.

 

[Synth]

I think it may have to do with the selection of cars. It simply isnt varied enough for anything close to a legacy type campaign and really only leaves you with the option of maybe single make or limited class races.

Yea. I don't think you could pull off the standard "rags to riches" type campaign, owing to the lack of metaphorical rags, but that doesn't really prevent a compelling single player campaign. Consider rally of F1 games... in terms of variety they're inherently hosed, but it doesn't cause them all to lack stuff to keep a single player consistently occupied.

As another example, PGR3 imposed a > 170mph limit on itself for car selections, partially due to the move to the 7th gen causing them to have to start everything from scratch. They just built the campaign around that selection.

 

[NullPointer]

I think it's fair you guys can judge it against the competition and previous games. I'm just judging it by what it is. The cover of the game doesn't even feature a car prominently. It's all about the person that's doing the driving. Make people better at driving and not about collecting cars.

There is an element of that in the reviews too. Even if you look at GTS purely through the lens of its Sport mode, the lack of content in terms of car and track variety is still an issue, and the few dailies that aren't even true dailies is just another big question mark.

But I think ultimately Polyphony may have narrowed their focus so much that they've left most mainstream reviewers behind.