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[Herr Schwarz]

I mean appearing in the shower naked behind someone without them consenting to it.

I see , I think I'm formulating the images you guys are clearly subscribing to here

So it started out like this,

and then we have the reaction

I see. I understand. So it was stealth reveal nudity that's the problem. He should of shouted at the glass "do you want to see me naked" as opposed to just some big ole buffallo bill reveal?

 

[Avalanche]

Malka could have just apologised and stepped aside but he chose to victim blame and accuse her of being mentally ill.

He had the choice to weakly and pointlessy support himself or give his greatest accomplishment in life the chance to succeed without him.

I will look back on my time here with shame. I can only hope he’s self-aware enough to do the same.

Looking forward to the snarky message in the ban you abusive scumbag.

 

[Forearms]

Oh well that makes it OK then! It’s only a misdemeanour, exposing yourself without consent is no big deal!

Man, talk about hyperbole. I simply stated that it's not "sexual assault" in Washington State, and that means I'm condoning the practice... wtf?

The point is - not everything is sexual assault. For the record - I think this whole thing has been blown out of proportion, and the way it has been handled by Evilore hasn't necessarily helped things.

 

[MrCookiepants]

“This guy straight up showed me his dick without me asking, is that assault?”

Fuck off with that shit, of course it fucking is

In that case, I've been digitally sexually assaulted on Grindr hundreds of times.

 

[Kin5290]

Same, that's why I can't stand the splintering of Gaf, this is one of the few liberal gaming spaces on the internet but people want to abandon it.

Bull fucking shit it is. It's been a weekend and already people are spewing bullshit about "SJWs" and "Virtue Signaling" with zero self-awareness. This forum is already 60% of the way to becoming Kotaku in Action.

Christ, how the mighty have fallen.

 

[Clipjoint]

Anyway, the next time your gorgeous wife tells you she's not in the mood and you force it on her anyway because being in a relationship means a blank check to have your way, you get back to me when she tells you how grateful she is that you saw past her wily ruse of sexual desire. Better yet, get back to me as to how many women are cool with you kissing or exposing yourself unexpectedly to them because they let you into their personal space.

The idea that it's a crime every time one person exposes themselves to another person without explicit verbal or written consent is absolutely ridiculous.

 

[Steeped in a Sea of Games]

It actually is exactly defined by physical contact.

Having said that - is my girlfriend sexually assaulting me every time she gets in the shower with me without asking? Could I have her thrown in prison for doing so?

girlfriend =/= random friend who let you into her personal quarters. Why be so disingenuous here?

 

[Aeolus]

Same, that's why I can't stand the splintering of Gaf, this is one of the few liberal gaming spaces on the internet but people want to abandon it.

That's good news.

 

[Murdoch]

Sexual Assault is not only defined by physical contact. Violating someone's consent in any form is sexual assault. Not asking before you get naked and get in the shower with someone is a clear violation of consent.

I'm not going to make any comments about the two persons involved in this case. However; it has made me realise that I've been sexually assaulted easily over 10-15 times in my teenage years (and I'm a bloke) this isn't a joke post. I just genuinely didn't realise exactly what sexual assault involved. I'm glad I'm out the dating scene as I could so very easily fall foul of stuff like this. I've dodged a bullet :-(

 

[Steeped in a Sea of Games]

The idea that it's a crime every time one person exposes themselves to another person without explicit verbal or written consent is absolutely ridiculous.

Uh, that's exactly what indecent exposure is if you go read the laws that I posted awhile back.

The difference is that most places of law are going to agree that being someone's girlfriend means they've given consent until they specifically say no. Those people have already made a commitment to be in a relationship. Being someone's friend does not explicitly come with that agreement.

 

[TheTylerRob]

Bull fucking shit it is. It's been a weekend and already people are spewing bullshit about "SJWs" and "Virtue Signaling" with zero self-awareness. This forum is already 60% of the way to becoming Kotaku in Action.

Christ, how the mighty have fallen.

You realize there is a huge amount of alt right, KIA kids going on Twitter and making memes to slander Resetera right? They are already mobilized because they want gaf to die. Take all the junior accounts you see with a massive grain of salt.

 

[Pai Pai Master]

The idea that it's a crime every time one person exposes themselves to another person without explicit verbal or written consent is absolutely ridiculous.

That's called indecent exposure. Obviously the situation is different if you are talking about two people in a relationship. You're being wilfully obtuse about this.

 

[Hermii]

Hi Guys! How does one get permabanned around here without indulging in anything pornographic? I'm positive there used to be a contact a mod button but cannot find it.

Oh, and I guess goodbye. Been a fun 10 years....

You can either make a suicide OT, or pm a mod. I recommend the latter.

 

[Sweep14]

Because she fucking said so?

Not closing the bathroom door isn't consent.

As per the girl's words later when they talked, what happened was "not okay."

You're correct with the outcome but as I said, he misinterpreted the situation and she said no to him at the exact moment he came naked in front of her. Not before. Unless you have a special talent for telepathy, you can't know someone's consent before it being expressed towards you. Consentment or no-consentment signs are harder to distinct when you drank too much. The important thing for me is that he respected the girl's decision.

 

[Theorry]

Yeah this article isnt really helping her side of the story.

 

[Herr Schwarz]

That's called indecent exposure. Obviously the situation is different if you are talking about two people in a relationship. You're being wilfully obtuse about this.

What if it's a developing relationship? Does that is still count even if they're having intercourse a month afterwards?

Or perhaps it is you that is being willfully obtuse about this

 

[Clipjoint]

Do you not realize where the situation is different?

If you were drunk and sick and not in a relationship with someone who is not your girlfriend and they violated your privacy would you be okay with it?

What if I didn't want my girlfriend to walk in on me that day and she did it anyways? I didn't give her consent, nor did I want her to come in. Does she have to get my consent everytime, or is it just implied that I'd be ok with it? If I try to have sex with her and she does not consent and I immediately stop, would that be considered sexual assault because I made the attempt without her consent?

In Tyler's case, he didn't sneak into her room and creep into her shower. They were sharing a hotel room. They were drunk. She left the bathroom door open and got in the shower. Is it completely out of the realm of possibility in your mind that he simply misread the situation and made a mistake? If he intended to sexually assault her, why would he have immediately left the bathroom when she made it clear she wasn't interested? Doesn't sexual assault kind of imply that you don't care if the other person consents or not?

 

[RDreamer]

You're correct with the outcome but as I said, he misinterpreted the situation and she said no to him at the exact moment he came naked in front of her. Not before. Unless you have a special talent for telepathy, you can't know someone's consent before it being expressed towards you. Consentment or no-consentment signs are harder to distinct when you drank too much. The important thing for me is that he respected the girl's decision.

My special telepathic talent is asking someone who I'm not in a relationship with and have no prior history doing this with if I should hop in the shower with them before I just hop into the shower with them.

The important thing for me is that he didn't respect the girl's consent because he didn't get it before he got in.

 

[Pai Pai Master]

You're correct with the outcome but as I said, he misinterpreted the situation and she said no to him at the exact moment he came naked in front of her. Not before. Unless you have a special talent for telepathy, you can't know someone's consent before it being expressed towards you. Consentment or no-consentment signs are harder to distinct when you drank too much. The important thing for me is that he respected the girl's decision.

You're right, we're not telepathic. That's why you ask first before you do something.

 

[Xpliskin]

Waaaaaiiiiiiiiit a minute.

After the shower thing she dated him and had sex with him ?

Then she tells the shower story after they break up ?

Ugh ....?

 

[Forearms]

Uh, that's exactly what indecent exposure is if you go read the laws that I posted awhile back.

The difference is that most places of law are going to agree that being someone's girlfriend means they've given consent until they specifically say no. Those people have already made a commitment to be in a relationship. Being someone's friend does not explicitly come with that agreement.

Indecent exposure is not Sexual Assault. Here is the US DOJ definition (https://www.justice.gov/ovw/sexual-assault):

WHAT IS SEXUAL ASSAULT?

Sexual assault is any type of sexual contact or behavior that occurs without the explicit consent of the recipient. Falling under the definition of sexual assault are sexual activities as forced sexual intercourse, forcible sodomy, child molestation, incest, fondling, and attempted rape.

So either touching the other person in a sexual way, or perhaps masturbating in front of them. That doesn't include just being naked in front of them... and then leaving when asked.

 

[Herr Schwarz]

Bring back the OT and let's let this thing blow over and let's talk about walking dead!

 

[Ivan]

This situation surely is a special kind of filter for gaf.

Let's see what future brings us.

 

[Steeped in a Sea of Games]

You're correct with the outcome but as I said, he misinterpreted the situation and she said no to him at the exact moment he came naked in front of her. Not before. Unless you have a special talent for telepathy, you can't know someone's consent before it being expressed towards you. Consentment or no-consentment signs are harder to distinct when you drank too much. The important thing for me is that he respected the girl's decision.

If you don't know the answer, don't fucking do it. Why is that hard? Alcohol is not a get-out-of-jail-free card.

 

[Clipjoint]

Uh, that's exactly what indecent exposure is if you go read the laws that I posted awhile back.

From the law you posted:

A male is guilty of indecent exposure in the second degree if he exposes his genitals or buttocks under circumstances in which he knows his conduct is likely to cause affront or alarm to another person.

Did he know his conduct was likely to cause affront or alarm to her? Most likely not. He thought she was into him, and he made a move on her. Awkwardly, but that's what she says happened. I don't see any reason to think he did it with the intention of causing her harm.

 

[Pai Pai Master]

What if I didn't want my girlfriend to walk in on me that day and she did it anyways? I didn't give her consent, nor did I want her to come in. Does she have to get my consent everytime, or is it just implied that I'd be ok with it? If I try to have sex with her and she does not consent and I immediately stop, would that be considered sexual assault because I made the attempt without her consent?

In Tyler's case, he didn't sneak into her room and creep into her shower. They were sharing a hotel room. They were drunk. She left the bathroom door open and got in the shower. Is it completely out of the realm of possibility in your mind that he simply misread the situation and made a mistake? If he intended to sexually assault her, why would he have immediately left the bathroom when she made it clear she wasn't interested? Doesn't sexual assault kind of imply that you don't care if the other person consents or not?

Do you not communicate with your girlfriend? "I want the shower to myself this time" is a perfectly simple way to communicate something like that.

Consent becomes more complicated when you're in a relationship, yes, but that doesn't mean it's not necessary. If you and your girlfriend regularly take showers together and you end up not wanting to at some point and you fail to discuss it before she gets in the shower with you, you're not going to blow up and act like she did some unforgivable thing. You work it out and you avoid hurting each other because that's what you do in a relationship. If a sexual encounter is initiated and one partner isn't in the mood and says so, that doesn't make it a violation of consent if it stops there. There's a deeper understanding when you're in a relationship and yeah sometimes a situation is misread and you work it out.

None of that matters though when you're talking about two people who aren't in a relationship. And if you are with someone who is sick and throwing up and you think "oh she must be dtf" then you have the perceptive skills of a goldfish and you fucked up well before you violated her consent. Being drunk is no excuse for failing to ask for consent.

 

[Clipjoint]

If you don't know the answer, don't fucking do it. Why is that hard? Alcohol is not a get-out-of-jail-free card.

You don't always know the answer beforehand, and it's absolutely frowned upon to ask for permission.

Here's a perfect example that illustrates my point:

https://youtu.be/sHLUFr00d4M?t=27s

 

[bender]

Didn't know about the Amir0x situation. The public statements related to that, this most recent situation and the quotes in the article really don't put Tyler in a positive light. If I were him I'd invest in a PR person and get my public statements vetted.

 

[Steeped in a Sea of Games]

Indecent exposure is not Sexual Assault. Here is the US DOJ definition (https://www.justice.gov/ovw/sexual-assault):

I never said it was? Indecent exposure is still a crime and a judge can throw the book at you if they feel like it. Most of those laws can come with 90 days in jail.

From the law you posted:

A male is guilty of indecent exposure in the second degree if he exposes his genitals or buttocks under circumstances in which he knows his conduct is likely to cause affront or alarm to another person.

Did he know his conduct was likely to cause affront or alarm to her? Most likely not. He thought she was into him, and he made a move on her. Awkwardly, but that's what she says happened. I don't see any reason to think he did it with the intention of causing her harm.

A lawyer could certainly argue that in that particular state and maybe he'd win, but there's no guarantee. The judge would make the final distinction. Also, that was just one state. Every state's laws are different, for instance Oregon stipulates it as: "(c) An act of exposing the genitals of the person with the intent of arousing the sexual desire of the person or another person."

 

[Shearie]

I know everybody is talking about Evilore here but I never even knew about the Amir0x stuff. Holy shit!

All I ever did was post in Apple threads in Off-Topic. Oh how ignorant I was...

 

[RDreamer]

You don't always know the answer beforehand, and it's absolutely frowned upon to ask for permission.

Here's a perfect example that illustrated my point:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHLUFr00d4M

I'm fairly certain it's not frowned upon to ask permission before exposing yourself to someone.

And your perfect example is from The Bachelorette? We gonna get all our dating advice from reality television now? That's where our morality of consent should come from?

 

[blankempathy]

The fact is you and RDreamer are as ignorant as the rest of us and what you are arguing for is basically a mob style witch hunt, which begs to question what your true motives in all this are when you have no idea what the actual facts are.

Unless you'd like to fill us in on all the details because either of you were actually there and watched the events occur a few years ago?

Otherwise your no better than the other ignorant trolls asking to be banned.


So moving goal posts and redirecting the valid points are equally ignorant acts, just FYI. Who the fuck cares what mob mentality has done in the past. Fuck.

Having a discussion now is now arguing for a mob style witch hunt? Come off it. This is the most civil course of action happening regarding this entire thing. Believe me I've seen plenty of other actions people have taken regarding whats happening and nothing I'm saying here is remotely as inflammatory as you're trying to make it out to be. I'm sorry if asking questions bothers you. Don't like it? Feel free to move on and maybe I can have a real discussion with someone else who wants to know more about the story instead of blinding believing one thing or another and doing nothing but accepting that as the truth.

As for the details of the truth I have none aside from what we've been told. However the actions regarding Evilore and the mods here are what really raises suspicion. Again I ask, where are the mods? Evilore clearly trusted and was friends with some of them. Why aren't they here if what he told us is entirely true? Don't you think they would fully support him in this time where he needs it the most? Oh right they're anonymous now meaning we don't know if they're still around or not, Although we do know that some were banned and left on their own so clearly us being in the dark about if they're still here benefits him. Its just a bit suspicious that they haven't show a public sign of support. Evilore's statement is also off. Not to mention it sure took a long time to get out over a simple misunderstanding.


It does matter what the mob mentality has done in the past. Because those "ignorant trolls" as you put it who jumped to conclusions are the same users likely doing the same thing during this situation.

 

[Steeped in a Sea of Games]

You don't always know the answer beforehand, and it's absolutely frowned upon to ask for permission.

Here's a perfect example that illustrates my point:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHLUFr00d4M

Which I go back to again: It doesn't matter if it's frowned on by some to ask permission. You're still throwing the dice every single time you do something like that because it is against the law to do it for the reasons I also stated earlier. Also, you guys act like there's no other way to get into a girl's pants than jumping in the fucking shower with them. Goddamn.

 

[Soodanim]

Waaaaaiiiiiiiiit a minute.

After the shower thing she dated him and had sex with him ?

Then she tells the shower story after they break up ?

Ugh ....?

This is what I was about to ask about. I keep feeling like I've missed something because everyone else is so sure that he's a sexual predator, but unless I misread the article (I was tired, so it's entirely possible) it seems the course of events was:
-He tried to make a move when drunk, she said no, then he backed off probably embarrassed and annoyed
-They talked about it, and he agreed that he fucked up and it must have been forgiven because they remained friends
-Ended up actually having sex in the future
-She years later decides to tell the story, leaving out everything past the indecent exposure

Please correct me where I've gone wrong, because I'd like to know why it's so cut and dry for GAF.

 

[sirap]

Waaaaaiiiiiiiiit a minute.

After the shower thing she dated him and had sex with him ?

Then she tells the shower story after they break up ?

Ugh ....?

Relationships are whack.

That's why I got my tenga ( ͡º ͜ʖ ͡º)

This is what I was about to ask about. I keep feeling like I've missed something because everyone else is so sure that he's a sexual predator, but unless I misread the article (I was tired, so it's entirely possible) it seems the course of events was:
-He tried to make a move when drunk, she said no, then he backed off probably embarrassed and annoyed
-They talked about it, and he agreed that he fucked up and it must have been forgiven because they remained friends
-Ended up actually having sex in the future
-She years later decides to tell the story, leaving out everything past the indecent exposure

Please correct me where I've gone wrong, because I'd like to know why it's so cut and dry for GAF.

GAF loves witch-hunts and guilty until proven innocent threads.

It didn't help that you had hundreds of VOAT/Chan & jilted ex-gaffers taking advantage of the situation.

 

[Steeped in a Sea of Games]

This is what I was about to ask about. I keep feeling like I've missed something because everyone else is so sure that he's a sexual predator, but unless I misread the article (I was tired, so it's entirely possible) it seems the course of events was:
-He tried to make a move when drunk, she said no, then he backed off probably embarrassed and annoyed
-They talked about it, and he agreed that he fucked up and it must have been forgiven because they remained friends
-Ended up actually having sex in the future
-She years later decides to tell the story, leaving out everything past the indecent exposure

Please correct me where I've gone wrong, because I'd like to know why it's so cut and dry for GAF.

You left out the part where she didn't intend for any of this to go public as she posted it privately and just used it as an example of unwanted sexual advance. Her friends posted it out to the web. She was very upfront about EL dating etc. later when interviewed.

 

[Clipjoint]

I'm fairly certain it's not frowned upon to ask permission before exposing yourself to someone.

And your perfect example is from The Bachelorette? We gonna get all our dating advice from reality television now? That's where our morality of consent should come from?

The point is that this is a standard reaction towards a man who asks for permission to kiss a woman. It's seen as being unromantic. Most first kisses don't involve the man asking for permission first - it's not a social norm. That goes for any initial sexual situation. It almost always involves the man progressively going further and further without explicitly asking for permission, with the expectation that any sign of hesitancy or discomfort and the man backs off.

The idea that every encounter involves a formal request for consent is just not realistic outside of this internet thought exercise. It almost never happens in real life.

 

[Sweep14]

My special telepathic talent is asking someone who I'm not in a relationship with and have no prior history doing this with if I should hop in the shower with them before I just hop into the shower with them.

The important thing for me is that he didn't respect the girl's consent because he didn't get it before he got in.

I understand your position. He sure took the "risk it all" path and that was not the wisest thing to do in this situation. It was a mistake he acknowledged later.

 

[Clipjoint]

Which I go back to again: It doesn't matter if it's frowned on by some to ask permission. You're still throwing the dice every single time you do something like that because it is against the law to do it for the reasons I also stated earlier. Also, you guys act like there's no other way to get into a girl's pants than jumping in the fucking shower with them. Goddamn.

Again - you're taking this to the furthest extreme of a mental exercise instead of discussing the reality of the situation at hand. He was drunk, sharing a room with a woman he was attracted to, misread the signs, awkwardly made a bold move, and withdrew as soon as she made it clear she wasn't interested.

Fucked up situation yes, but it wasn't sexual assault or harassment.

 

[Sanjay]

Night out, girl takes you back alone, she goes to the shower, wot do you do?

 

[anothertech]

Having a discussion now is now arguing for a mob style witch hunt? Come off it. .

Posting ‘ban me’ threads is not trying to ‘have a discussion. That is the point I was making, and you were adamantly trying to redirect over and over now.

And the mob mentality you are embracing is pure rubbish when it’s based on 0 facts and ignorant trolling along with utter bollox you chaps keep spouting.

Come off it.

 

[Spiritual_Chaos]

The point is that this is a standard reaction towards a man who asks for permission to kiss a woman. It's seen as being unromantic. Most first kisses don't involve the man asking for permission first - it's not a social norm. That goes for any initial sexual situation. It almost always involves the man progressively going further and further without explicitly asking for permission, with the expectation that any sign of hesitancy or discomfort and the man backs off.

The idea that every encounter involves a formal request for consent is just not realistic outside of this internet thought exercise. It almost never happens in real life.

There is a difference between leaning in for a kiss if the mood is right, and from nowhere jumping in to the shower with someone who's there because she got to drunk and had been throwing up.

 

[caffeware]

Waaaaaiiiiiiiiit a minute.

After the shower thing she dated him and had sex with him ?

Then she tells the shower story after they break up ?

Ugh ....?

Exactly.

 

[Sweep14]

If you don't know the answer, don't fucking do it. Why is that hard? Alcohol is not a get-out-of-jail-free card.

I know that alcohol is not an excuse here but is probably the explanation of why things happened the way they did.

 

[sirap]

Night out, girl takes you back alone, she goes to the shower, wot do you do?

Whip out your Nintendo Switch and play videogames.

Nintendo did bros a solid with this one.

 

[Steeped in a Sea of Games]

The point is that this is a standard reaction towards a man who asks for permission to kiss a woman. It's seen as being unromantic. Most first kisses don't involve the man asking for permission first - it's not a social norm. That goes for any initial sexual situation. It almost always involves the man progressively going further and further without explicitly asking for permission, with the expectation that any sign of hesitancy or discomfort and the man backs off.

The idea that every encounter involves a formal request for consent is just not realistic outside of this internet thought exercise. It almost never happens in real life.

If EL had tried to kiss her, no one would have given a single solitary fuck. I mean, some people might have, but it would have been a huge minority. There's a big difference between that and getting into a shower naked with someone without having express consent. If you can't see the difference, I really don't know what to say at this point.

 

[Pai Pai Master]

Night out, girl takes you back alone, she goes to the shower, wot do you do?

There is a difference between going out on a date with someone and going back to their place, and being on a trip with someone when you are in another relationship, being drunk, getting sick, and taking a shower to clean off.

And even in the former situation, it's still a good idea to ask first before you get in the shower with them.

 

[Permanently A]

Wait, so, according to the mod interviewed in this article, the evilore statement on amirox claiming that they didn't know his name was false? That's a pretty strange thing to lie about.

 

[nitekrawlwer]

Again - you're taking this to the furthest extreme of a mental exercise instead of discussing the reality of the situation at hand. He was drunk, sharing a room with a woman he was attracted to, misread the signs, awkwardly made a bold move, and withdrew as soon as she made it clear she wasn't interested.

Fucked up situation yes, but it wasn't sexual assault or harassment.

Unwanted sexual advances are sexual harassment by legal definition.

 

[Mohonky]

I thought the place was down for maintenance.

Came back to this, I had no idea.