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[Regulus Tera]

They've been saying this since 1997 and they had a thing going until they hit the PS2 years.

 

[Sapphire Dreams]

Sqaure Enix likes to announce games more than making them, I won't believe until I have the games physically in my hands.

 

[Aeana]

Shorter development cycles are better. It would also presumably let them rotate around some of their people so more of the employees get a chance to work on other things occasionally.

 

[odin toelust]

I'm ok with this as long as they are focused on gameplay mechanics and such for each release and tech every 3 or so releases. FXIII's problem, IMHO, was that they tried to make it look all pretty and shit and the rest of the game suffered from it.

 

[charlequin]

There's no inherent reason that this would even be difficult -- an FF-scale title can absolutely be developed in 3 years, which means that two teams trading off could certainly deliver a title every 2 years (especially if you factor in XIII-2 type iterative sequels that could be done in just 18 months by themselves.)

The problem here is actually taking on an approach to development that would enable SE to have two teams alternating like that, and even with their efforts on XIII-2 so far I'm just not seeing that happen as of yet.

 

[Yanksfan]

RPGs are not like action games. They can't just push them out and expect a large quality diverse world. Whatever, let's see how they kill it.

Apparently they can't with years of dev time either these days.

 

[The Praiseworthy]

If they can really pull THIS correctly, then I welcome it with big open Arms.

For the west in this gen we got:

FFXIII = Q1 2010
FFXIII-2 = Q1 2012
FFversusXIII = Q1 2013 ( I just know... )

IF we get FFXV somewhere in 2015... I would be really really HAPPY.

 

[Nekofrog]

RPGs are not like action games. They can't just push them out and expect a large quality diverse world. Whatever, let's see how they kill it.

Yes you can. It takes a strong creative vision as well as someone in a leadership position that has the balls to tell a director NO when they demand more time to add more things that quite frankly aren't necessary to the game.

 

[H_Prestige]

Get a second team (lead by Ito and Yoshida). FFXIII guys and the new team alternate every year or so. We get FF games at the same pace as the ps1 days and everyone is happy.

 

[LiK]

Apparently they can't with years of dev time either these days.

The writing has been subpar already. I'm not hopeful the stories will get any better with this news.

 

[Shai-Tan]

They already tried to streamline FF XIII and it still took them too long. They need new people and processes when they take that long to make an FF game and everything but the art and engine is lackluster. I think part of the problem is some of these guys are career employees that aren't really the best choice to be managing game development.

 

[charlequin]

They already tried to streamline FF XIII and it still took them too long. They need new people and processes when they take that long to make an FF game and everything but the art and engine is lackluster. I think part of the problem is some of these guys are career employees that aren't really the best choice to be managing game development.

I honestly doubt the employees are the problem here at all (although certainly some team leads at SE seem to be better at it than others.) As a whole Square-Enix has fallen behind during the last ten years on modern organizational strategies for development. Both XII and XIII became massive cost-overrun, behind-schedule projects because of their overly vertical development strategy and inability to effectively iterate mid-project. If they can shake up their actual strategy I'm sure the people they have on staff are capable of handling the work.

The writing has been subpar already. I'm not hopeful the stories will get any better with this news.

It's not like the stories of Final Fantasy games are kind of mediocre because they just didn't spend enough time working on them.

 

[Shadow of the BEAST]

what an idiot.

cod, assassins creed etc are milked like crazy because they are the hot shit right now. Its their time right now and ea/activtion/ubi are taking advantage of it as much as they can,

Thats why they release 15 games a year.

final fantasy time has passed, its a series with a downward spiral. They need a great game to revitalise the series before they can milk it again.

 

[Digital-Hero]

what an idiot.

cod, assassins creed etc are milked like crazy because they are the hot shit right now. Its their time right now and ea/activtion/ubi are taking advantage of it as much as they can,

Thats why they release 15 games a year.

final fantasy time has passed, its a series with a downward spiral. They need a great game to revitalise the series before they can milk it again.

I disagree that "time has passed" for Final Fantasy. All they have to do is revitalize the series in a good way and people will be all over it. That has yet to happen.

 

[Nirolak]

There's no inherent reason that this would even be difficult -- an FF-scale title can absolutely be developed in 3 years

They seem pretty intent on two judging by their historical comments.

 

[ProfessorMoran]

No kidding, sherlock.

Anyway, this is what I expect:

2011-2012: Final Fantasy XIII-2
2012-2013: Final Fantasy Versus XIII
2013-2014: Final Fantasy XV
2014-2015: Final Fantasy XVI (new HD console game)
2015-2016: Final Fantasy XVI-2

They're going to burn out the IP and obviously they don't care at this point since they worry more about the board and shareholders than people who buy their games, they know that they've got DQ which will always sell in Japan.

They've got the additional problem of their north american rpg fanbase growing the fuck up and not wanting to play as a 14 year old anymore while the whole teen hero thing is still hot in Japan.

 

[Fox318]

I'm convinced Square Enix hates money.

So I can't see them releasing another Final Fantasy for another 4 years.

 

[TheJollyCorner]

It could work...

I mean, as others have pointed out, it worked this way for years before.
Here's what actually made it work, though: MULTIPLE TEAMS working parallel, better upper management and overall organization... especially when the tech was getting more complex to work with (i.e. PS1 and especially PS2).

I dunno, though. Kitase and Sakaguchi were tearing it up for a while.
1994 - FFVI
1997 - FFVII (huge overall shift for the company)
1999 - FFVIII
2001 - FFX

(then you add in Itou's FFIX in 2000 and Tanaka's FFXI in 2002).

It really wasn't until the merger and Wada started dicking around that ruined that flow. Took, what, almost 5 years between offline FF's (FFX to FFXII)? People still complained that FFXII felt 'incomplete' to Matsuno's original scope. Then it takes almost 4 years between FFXII to FFXIII... and once again many complained of FFXIII feeling incomplete. Now it's taking VsXIII upwards of 6 and a half years... and that's if the game releases during holiday 2012. If it comes summer 2013 or later that's over 7 years since the initial ground-breaking by Nomura's team. Unbelievable.

That's great that FFXIII-2 is only taking 18 months, but it's got a lot to prove. A bunch of reused assets from FFXIII, tweaks to gameplay, and some new location/character models pales in comparison to what they are doing with Vs or what they'll likely have to do with FFXV.

I really can't see FFXV even coming close to happening until after: #1. VsXIII releases and #2. the FFXIV debacle is fixed and 2.0 (successfully) relaunches. I would expect XV to at least be on the drawing boards, though- either by Kitase's team or Itou's team. Maybe they'll be smart and start planning for XV to be next gen with the Luminous Engine right now? With as much time and money that is going into VsXIII, that has to be the grandiose send-off for this current gen, right?

Oh, Square. You still have a place in my heart... sort of.
I watch with much interest.

 

[LiK]

It's not like the stories of Final Fantasy games are kind of mediocre because they just didn't spend enough time working on them.

It's not like it's working for them right now. I think it would be better if they took a break so they can come up with better stories and dialogue than what we've been getting lately. Pushing games out every 1-2 years isn't gonna improve the stories.

 

[sixteen-bit]

Good luck with that.

 

[erpg]

The idea of seeing a Japanese dev releasing a quality next gen game every two years is interesting. And improbable.

 

[charlequin]

They seem pretty intent on two judging by their historical comments.

That's a much dumber approach to take!

With two teams you can trade off and give each room to breathe and either lend out team members to other efforts elsewhere in the company or to build some flex time into their schedules in case one of their FFs goes long. Trying to just get Kitase's team to crank out a game every two years on the dot is going to be a disaster.

 

[APZonerunner]

Kitase commented on this to me in an interview I did 2 weeks ago in this very same press tour. He said:

You can't really talk about RPGs and FPS together - with some of the big name Western titles like Modern Warfare and Battlefield you can expect a new game in one year or two - a very quick turnaround. On the other hand, FPS the basics are already there - it's established, so you don't have to create everything from scratch. That's one of the reasons that they can make these games in such a quick turn-around.

When it comes to RPGs like Final Fantasy, obviously you have to make everything from scratch. As you say, Final Fantasy XIII-2 is a sequel to Final Fantasy XIII, so all the basics and technology was already there, so we only had to upgrade some aspects. If we wanted to make a numbered Final Fantasy title, you have to create a story, mechanics - everything. It's a painstaking process. In a way, it's inevitable that we take a little bit longer time.

So, basically, expect more sequels to main-line games reusing assets as main games will "inevitably" take longer with current tech - according to him, anyway.

Link to full piece..

 

[charlequin]

I think it would be better if they took a break so they can come up with better stories and dialogue than what we've been getting lately.

Again, really unclear on why you think time is in any way an influence on this. Inasmuch as SE games have shitty writing, it's because they're written by shitty writers who are writing stuff that targets a market who are interested in shitty writing.

 

[dramatis]

It's not like it's working for them right now. I think it would be better if they took a break so they can come up with better stories and dialogue than what we've been getting lately. Pushing games out every 1-2 years isn't gonna improve the stories.

It's not really a time problem. For instance, Level 5 developed a number of RPGs but the stories are all pretty mediocre because the person who probably sticks his face in the writing the most is Akihiko Hino. It's not lack of time that results in hilariously bad stories, it's just the person writing.

 

[SYNTAX182]

Activision is like a plague

 

[Nirolak]

Kitase commented on this to me in an interview I did 2 weeks ago in this very same press tour. He said:



So, basically, expect more sequels to main-line games reusing assets as main games will "inevitably" take longer with current tech - according to him, anyway.

Link to full piece..

I'm kind of wondering if he just means going from 18 months to 24 months however.

Edit:

That or there's some kind of pre-production is done on the new major entries while a sequel entry comes out as you noted.

 

[TheChillyAcademic]

What is this, 1997?

 

[Valnen]

2 years is not too often, 1 year is.

 

[LiK]

Again, really unclear on why you think time is in any way an influence on this. Inasmuch as SE games have shitty writing, it's because they're written by shitty writers who are writing stuff that targets a market who are interested in shitty writing.

Cuz I think having more time allows them more time to come up with better scenarios and better plots. Sure, the writers are shit but don't you think giving them more time with rewrites would help? Rushing them through development isn't gonna help make them better, imo.

I'm not saying it's impossible. I just think the whole franchise needs a break.

 

[APZonerunner]

I'm kind of wondering if he just means going from 18 months to 24 months however.

Edit:

That or there's some kind of pre-production is done on the new major entries while a sequel entry comes out as you noted.

It's worth noting this was the phrasing of the question:"Final Fantasy XIII-2 is coming around a heck of a lot quicker than XIII did, but it is of course a sequel. Then you've got Versus which is taking quite a while - but it's crazy to think now that IV, V and VI all came out in the space of four years, and VII, VIII and IX came out in a mere three. Do you feel that age where you can kick out three all-original games in quick succession is gone, or are there lessons to be learned where you can speed up development again?"

I've made a point of asking about the development of 4/5/6 and 7/8/9 versus the modern games to anybody from SE Tokyo as a default question to try to gauge the mindset within that office to what I see as a huge problem with development timetables, from FF14 having five years and then still being a broken and rushed mess to FF13 and Versus taking forever. The same question asked to Yoshida (the guy bought in to clean up the FF14 disaster):

Personally, I think that the technology, the way of thinking and experience should all solve this problem. I think, especially for Western-developed games, they are having a quicker pace of releasing titles, and I think from the Tokyo side we should do that as well.

It's true that XIII took a long time to develop, but XIII-2 is coming out quite quickly, so as long as we use this kind of technology and experience more efficiently it is possible to do things much more quickly.

Of course, compared to previous platforms like the Family Computer (NES) or PlayStation 1 the efforts required to create assets is much, much more, so you can't develop games in the same timely manner of course. That said, we still need to think about how we can bring more titles to market in a more timely manner.

When I'm at work we do hear the jokes like 'When I started on this project I didn't have a child, and now it is finished he is already five years old,' and that's true - and I really think that is too long. You can't spend an entire generation on just one game, so we at Square Enix - especially the Tokyo side - need to make sure we make changes and try to become more efficient. I think XIII-2 is a good example of how we can do that.

 

[Atrus]

Someone should ask them how that whole Kingdom Hearts thing is going. You know that franchise whose console iterations sold millions? Yeah... that.

There's a clear indicator here that management should be fired (including the FFXIV debacle) but the lack of will to do so will drive the company into the ground.

 

[Shadow of the BEAST]

Of course, compared to previous platforms like the Family Computer (NES) or PlayStation 1 the efforts required to create assets is much, much more, so you can't develop games in the same timely manner of course. That said, we still need to think about how we can bring more titles to market in a more timely manner.

the psone ff where some of the most expensive games ever made. With a budget/workforce that exceeds many games this generation.

Development of Final Fantasy VII resumed in late 1995,[31] and required the efforts of approximately 120 artists and programmers, using PowerAnimator and Softimage|3D software.[44] It was the most expensive video game in its time, with a budget of around US$45 million,[45] equivalent to $62 million in 2011.[4

 

[btkadams]

i'm down for this. ff13 took way too long to come out, and it ended up disappointing a lot of people. if they put out a mainline ff every couple years, they would have more room to have the experimental ff games as well as make the ones traditional fans wants. if it takes 5 years to make one, you're only pleasing one set of fans and pissing off the others who waited so long.

 

[J-Rzez]

I think it's safe to say that developer-wise, SE has failed the hardest out of all the major/biggest developers this gen. They took too long with this last FF and the MMO was really weak as well despite long dev times. Also, they absolutely failed hard by not releasing a real, proper, KH3. I mean, wasn't there some poll a few years back and more people were interested in a KH3 rather than FF even? And all they did was crap out portable versions to try and cash in on, yet they didn't sell nearly as well as the console KH's if I remember someone here showing off sales figures for it (I think it was here).

That's mind boggling how they let that series rot after it was pretty successful sales wise, and many have asked for it. Now this gen is coming to an end. It would be rather odd that KH3 would possibly miss a generation and they'd bring it back "next-gen", to carry on it's story.

They've certainly had poor road mapping over there.

 

[Htown]

Those other games come out every year or two because the developers in those games don't try to build a new engine for every game that comes out. They use things like Unreal Engine 3 and... middleware.

 

[Shadow of the BEAST]

Those other games come out every year or two because the developers in those games don't try to build a new engine for every game that comes out. They use things like Unreal Engine 3 and... middleware.

neither cod, battlefield or ac uses middleware engine.



they all use their own engine.

 

[Dunan]

It would be a lot easier to tolerate weak entries (looking at XIII in particular) when it's only been a year since the previous game and another one is coming a year in the future.

I wholeheartedly support the re-use of assets where possible. Not just when making sequels that will contain the same locations, characters, etc., but other infrastructure too. FF4/5/6 shared an entire engine (? it looks like it) and there's no reason to keep reinventing the wheel.

And get Hiroyuki Ito to start training some disciples who can make games in his mold. I want to see him take center stage over Kitase/Toriyama and their juvenilia.

 

[djtiesto]

As long as this plan doesn't involve outsourcing to a western team, I'm all for it.

 

[royalan]

I'm surprised that so many people think that a new FF title every 1-2 years would be impossible. I mean, that's how it was for the entire PSX era.

I think it's very possible for Square Enix to get back to that if they're willing to tackle the real issues behind why they're in the funk they're in now. Namely, management and developer tools.

I think every team leader on the payroll, regardless of rank, needs to be seriously taken to task. Because there is just no excuse for Square being plagued by mediocre games with 4+ year development cycles in the face of smaller western developers who are producing bigger, more ambitious, more polished games in a third of the time. No excuse. Square Enix wouldn't be the first company to have to face the reality of senior staff resting on the laurels of their glory days. Time for everyone to earn their keep. And that means telling the big guys to get off their ass, send the hookers home, stop drawing that 9,999th piece of concept art and start producing actual game code/assets., or face losing their position to younger and hungrier talent.

But I think the biggest issue with S-E right now is their development tools, which have frankly been a huge clusterfuck this entire gen. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but despite having different battle engines and art direction, the PSX Final Fantasies all used the same core engine, right? That's a big reason they were able to churn those games out so quickly. If S-E can get their development backbone in order, I don't think they'll have a problem churning out quality games at regular intervals.

 

[Teknoman]

Maybe the new engine they are developing will make things easier?

 

[Huff]

This doesn't have anything to do with the new Montreal studio does it?

 

[Nirolak]

This doesn't have anything to do with the new Montreal studio does it?

That's for Hitman, which will presumably take a similar pace.

 

[matmanx1]

I think that I am ok with this. If the characters and stories can improve from what we got in FF13 while keeping the same level of graphical detail then it's a win win.

 

[Slappers Only]

Has anyone made the "it's nice to want things" joke yet?

 

[LiK]

Has anyone made the "it's nice to want things" joke yet?

nope, cuz they'll do it.

 

[Huff]

That's for Hitman, which will presumably take a similar pace.

I understand wanting to pump out a FF game every year or two, but is hitman really on the same level as the other 1 - 2 year plan games?

 

[GavinGT]

It's nice to want things.

 

[Phonomezer]

Meh, I lost interest in this series after the abysmal XIII, I'll be back on board if the games are good.

 

[Nirolak]

I understand wanting to pump out a FF game every year or two, but is hitman really on the same level as the other 1 - 2 year plan games?

I would assume it is more of a "What do we have that has the highest chance of selling really well?" move.