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[Synless]

It should’ve been then.

It should be no expense spared title. And each installment should sell 20 million +. Thats the minimum they should aim for.

GTA 6 is investing a cool billion just for production of the game. You have this luxury when you sell 200 million copies.

If fans are ok with Final Fantasy slowly turning into AA production, I really dunno what to say.

Yet their budget landed a game that is highly reviewed by both players and critics.

The game screams quality from front to back and you make dipshit comments like this.

 

[Sneakysnake]

Give us starfield, hellblade, Indiana Jones then.

Those are first party games. This conversation is about third party games. And Xbox just GAVE you sea of thieves, Grounded, high Fi rush, and pentiment so be grateful ya port beggin Pony! jk

 

[ProtoByte]

Square put the game on PC as an Epic Game Store exclusive for a year, then pretty much shadow dropped it on Steam mid 2022. No marketing, no hype.

And you wonder why it didn’t set charts on fire on PC.

It doesn't matter. We always hear this excuse, but it doesn't line up with what we're told about the PC player base, and what we can see for ourselves.

For one thing, we're always told that PC players can and will easily wait for games and can do it because of their huge back catalogs. For another, the demographic of player with a rig powerful enough to play Remake at a similar or greater fidelity as compared to PS4 Pro or PS5, and the majority of the potential is not the kind that needs to be constantly marketed to. They are not baseline casuals. Word of mouth often does more for that ecosystem than pre-marketing corporate hype.

Square marketed the PC version more than enough when it released on Epic, and everyone knew and knows about the 6 month policy when it comes to that. I could be misremembering, but I'm pretty sure SE had a small reminder-promo during the NotE3 cycle at the time.

If it can happen on console with a much more casual base for a game like Rise of The Tomb Raider (which wasn't even that hyped or critically acclaimed) on PlayStation a year after release on Xbox and PC to the point that SE credits that version for a record financial high, it is theoretically possible on PC. Fuck, even Persona 4 Golden on PC was met with more enthusiasm. It's not a perfect comparison, but that's what you've got.

 

[Three]

If it's happening now it's only because any kind of exclusivity clause that would have prevented it otherwise have lapsed. We've already read about a Sony VP being proud of securing Remake and Rebirth as exclusives, the word secure implies it's a continued thing. The publicly stated 6 month window could have been extended, they already did that once for Intergrade. Heck, we've seen examples of games / projects that were announced as multi-platform, now exclusively on one platform.

He was proud of securing timed exclusivity at release, nothing else. Even says "exclusivity was mutually desired when the remake project fired up" in the next line . It's all conjecture on your part. 6 months is the publicly stated information we have but you don't want to believe it simply because it didn't get an xbox port earlier. It would be like saying Persona 3 must of had a 15year exclusivity window because it only released last year on xbox. It's been 4 years now for FF.

 

[adamsapple]

RE and FF are very different things.
RE is about as western as it gets from Japan.
And again, staggered releasing is not going to pull down a 20 million seller to 7 million. It's just.

I'm not sure if being western would make that much of a difference. FFVII is arguably the most well known JRPG of our lifetime, it's remake would draw far more interest than most other games.

But it'd be interesting to see the sales breakdown by platform on RE4. I remember British console sales on PS steamrolling Xbox sales. Pretty big thread about it.

It was released on 2 playstation consoles (4 and 5) versus only one Xbox. Just Series S|X accounted for almost a quarter of the total sales on the 4 platforms (PS5/4/PC/Xbox). Not that shabby.

Going by the 3 year dev timeline for Rebirth, I highly doubt this game was a multi-hundrerd million dollar project.

Square hasn't released any figures, but Remake reportedly had a $175~ million budget, even if Rebirth is matching it, and not exceeding it, let's say.

He was proud of securing timed exclusivity at release, nothing else. Even says "exclusivity was mutually desired when the remake project fired up" in the next line . It's all conjecture on your part. 6 months is the publicly stated information we have but you don't want to believe it simply because it didn't get an xbox port earlier. It would be like saying Persona 3 must of had a 15year exclusivity window because it only released last year on xbox.

Again, knowing the kind of stuff Spencer has said about wanting these games on Xbox, it's just flat out ignorant to think they wouldn't already be there if allowed.

Here's what he said when asked about other games besides FF14 last year when he was at that event announcing the Xbox port for 14.

There's obviously business deals and relationships that will have to get worked through on certain games.

It couldn't have been said any clearer without directly throwing Sony or Square under the bus.

 

[vaibhavpisal]

Yet their budget landed a game that is highly reviewed by both players and critics.

The game screams quality from front to back and you make dipshit comments like this.

Quality of the game is immaterial. It couldn’t stand out from games that are being produced today with its visuals.

Didn’t generate hype with its trailers or sales like they wanted it to. It will keep spiraling downwards if they won’t make next FF a must play title.

 

[Three]

Again, knowing the kind of stuff Spencer has said about wanting these games on Xbox, it's just flat out ignorant to think they wouldn't already be there if allowed.

Here's what he said when asked about other games besides FF14 last year when he was at that event announcing the Xbox port for 14.



It couldn't have been said any clearer without directly throwing Sony or Square under the bus.

'Games beside FF14', you mean like FF16? Because he was asked about FF16 specifically as well. Mentioning "Certain games" doesn't suddenly mean it becomes clear FF7Remake has a hidden 4 year contract instead of the publicly stated and known 6 months. That's you jumping to conclusions.

It even makes sense for Phil to stall on paying to port it until it's complete. If Playstation has a deal on the trilogy the last thing you want is for somebody to be able to play FF7R part 1 on xbox now but then be tempted to buy a Playstation to play the also timed exclusive direct sequel of the game when it releases to know what happens. Phil never tells you something directly and this is certainly not clear indication of a FF7R exclusivity deal still existing today.

 

[mayham2199]

Wait a sec, this "news" comes from the well-known anti-Sony/Square troll??? Are we seriously citing him as a credible source?


The level of this thread just sank to new depths, if that was even possible.

I woke up to a ton of articles being written over what this guy said.

 

[ProtoByte]

I'm not sure if being western would make that much of a difference. FFVII is arguably the most well known JRPG of our lifetime, it's remake would draw far more interest than most other games.

You misunderstand. I don't just mean western in terms of aesthetics. It's western in game design. JRPGs are inherently less mass-appeal than a TPS. And sorry, but whatever FF7's credits are, the supermajority of that potential fanbase is going to be on PlayStation and maybe (but not likely) Nintendo platforms. Xbox has never been a JRPG haven.
FF15 was, in my view, more well known and relevant than FF7 is today. How did sales on Xbox (pre-Gamepass effect and console sales slump) go for that one?

It was released on 2 playstation consoles (4 and 5) versus only one Xbox.

You mean 2 Xboxes. One being a value option that was on par with PS4 pricing. And the vast majority of the PlayStation sales were on PS5. If they weren't on PS4, they wouldn't be anywhere. Again, the picture doesn't change.

Just Series S|X accounted for almost a quarter of the total sales on the 4 platforms (PS5/4/PC/Xbox). Not that shabby.

No, it was 20%. At launch. My guess is that number has fallen.

Square hasn't released any figures, but Remake reportedly had a $175~ million budget, even if Rebirth is matching it, and not exceeding it, let's say.

Rebirth maybe matches or might be less honestly. They've reused a ton of assets, didn't have as many production problems (remember FF7R started at CC2 before restarting dev), and had a dev cycle that lasted a full 24 fewer months.

 

[Synless]

Quality of the game is immaterial. It couldn’t stand out from games that are being produced today with its visuals.

Didn’t generate hype with its trailers or sales like they wanted it to. It will keep spiraling downwards if they won’t make next FF a must play title.

Your original argument was the production of the game. The game is visually striking from start to finish regardless of bad textures here and there. It’s unique, it has next to no bugs, it has tons of love poured into its details, the soundtrack is glorious. All that and they did it on a moderate budget.

Marketing is a completely different issue.

 

[Sushi_Combo]

Those are first party games. This conversation is about third party games. And Xbox just GAVE you sea of thieves, Grounded, high Fi rush, and pentiment so be grateful ya port beggin Pony! jk

Ff7 remake was technically not a third party game. Funding was provided by Sony.

 

[adamsapple]

You mean 2 Xboxes. One being a value option that was on par with PS4 pricing. And the vast majority of the PlayStation sales were on PS5. If they weren't on PS4, they wouldn't be anywhere. Again, the picture doesn't change.

I don't think there's any source that compares PS4 vs PS5 sales on RE4 remake to say that one way or the other.

Also the 'value option' comment makes no sense here, PS4 is a console with a magnitude of a bigger install base, which automatically gives it a much bigger audience to sell to.

FF15 was, in my view, more well known and relevant than FF7 is today. How did sales on Xbox (pre-Gamepass effect and console sales slump) go for that one?

Once again, those are UK Physical only numbers. Xbox has always tended to skew more digitally in the UK.

 

[BennyBlanco]

Final Fantasy 7 Rebirth is "underperforming", says industry analyst

Final Fantasy 7 Rebirth has reportedly sold "about half" the sales of its predecessor Remake in the same timeframe.That…

www.eurogamer.net

Square is in rough shape. They desperately need a hit.

 

[ArtHands]

The chickens are coming home to roost for all of Square's bad decisions over the last couple decades. They were able to weather most of it due to brand recognition and goodwill from fans, but as their fanbase are aging out, and due to their failure to capture younger gamers, sales with FF have stagnated. Part of the problem is their exclusivity to Sony. No I don't think if Rebirth were released to PC it would magically give them a huge boost to sales. It would help, but not by a ton. Same goes for the Xbox. But this isn't because Final Fantasy wouldn't sell on those consoles. It's because they never cultivated an audience on other consoles over the years. If you want your franchise to reach out to a wider and younger audience, you can't keep your IP on one console. Sure they're eventually ported to PC, but that usually happens 1-2 years later, well after marketing has died down.

To counter some of the dooming going on in the thread, no Final Fantasy is not dead and no FFVII Part 3 isn't cancelled. They're working on it right now. FFXIV is a resounding success for Square and one of their main money makers. They're fine. But in the long term there's clearly a big problem with the IP that they need to address soon. They can't continue down this path and hope their "Breath of the Wild" moment will happen.

If that's the case, it seems they might have the same problem as Playstation. Seems Square Enix can't expand Final Fantasy series like other Japanese franchises such as Persona, Resident Evil, Tekken and more.

 

[Crayon]

So is this daily active users or sales?

 

[Chukhopops]

So is this daily active users or sales?

There are two sources:
Ampere: estimate (of sales) based on daily actives since Feb 29
Niko partners: equities research reports and trackers

And there’s some awkward silence from SE and a lot of cope and deflection.

 

[Gamerguy84]

It's so cute seeing the usual green rats coming out in force to attack a new Final Fantasy every time it's released for the crime of not being released on Xbox

Your not lying. If you want a break from all the negativity go check out the thread where Bethesda finally fixed a 9 year old game.

All the PC/MS/Xbox guys are getting along in there.

 

[Crayon]

There are two sources:
Ampere: estimate (of sales) based on daily actives since Feb 29
Niko partners: equities research reports and trackers

And there’s some awkward silence from SE and a lot of cope and deflection.

Oh so it's based on multiple points of daily users? That would explain why I was finding this hard to follow.

 

[TheShocker]

I loved Remake.

I’m 20ish into Rebirth and it’s truly a special game.

I will not even think twice about buying part 3. Day 1 for sure.

But it is telling to see the need for this game to release on other platforms. It would have sold well on PC and Xbox if released simultaneously.

 

[tmlDan]

There are two sources:
Ampere: estimate (of sales) based on daily actives since Feb 29
Niko partners: equities research reports and trackers

And there’s some awkward silence from SE and a lot of cope and deflection.

You mean, Daniel Ahmad, Niko partners, that only focuses on the Chinese market and has no connections and shared no actual sales figures or estimates.

Yea, them.

 

[Chukhopops]

You mean, Daniel Ahmad, Niko partners, that only focuses on the Chinese market and has no connections and shared no actual sales figures or estimates.

Yea, them.

No connections lmao. He has been used as a source on sales data for literal years and it’s the first time I see his credibility being questioned.

Feel free to not believe him if you want but let’s not pretend he isn’t considered reliable.

 

[Fredrik]

But it is telling to see the need for this game to release on other platforms. It would have sold well on PC and Xbox if released simultaneously.

Not Xbox, they have to release the first game first before it makes any sense to release the sequel.
PC on the other hand. Yeah it should’ve been there. Let’s just pray they’re clever enough to skip the EGS exclusivity this time lol

 

[tmlDan]

No connections lmao. He has been used as a source on sales data for literal years and it’s the first time I see his credibility being questioned.

Feel free to not believe him if you want but let’s not pretend he isn’t considered reliable.

He has not, he does an analysis on sales and stories in the Chinese market, i've followed him for like 6 years.

All he does is comment and make stupid jokes on other peoples data and posts on twitter when its not related to the chinese market.

 

[Three]

No connections lmao. He has been used as a source on sales data for literal years and it’s the first time I see his credibility being questioned.

Feel free to not believe him if you want but let’s not pretend he isn’t considered reliable.

He didn't provide any sales figures.

 

[Chukhopops]

He has not, he does an analysis on sales and stories in the Chinese market, i've followed him for like 6 years.

All he does is comment and make stupid jokes on other peoples data and posts on twitter when its not related to the chinese market.

He has not what? Not been used as a source for sales data? You can find GAF threads started from his tweets in 10 seconds using the search function.

What a weird and nonsensical « attack the messenger » move.

He didn't provide any sales figures.

He explained how the data is calculated just after his first tweet.

 

[tmlDan]

He has not what? Not been used as a source for sales data? You can find GAF threads started from his tweets in 10 seconds using the search function.

What a weird and nonsensical « attack the messenger » move.

He explained how the data is calculated just after his first tweet.

So i was right, he used third party equities research reports. He has no actual info, but utilized another analysts data which was an estimate.

Again, no actual connections.

 

[Three]

He explained how the data is calculated just after his first tweet.

He gave no values though. He said where the data is from only, usual trackers. He hasn't stated a value.

 

[Little Chicken]

Half of VII-R's sales in the same timeframe and will have a weaker tail.

So FF7 Stillbirth is a sales flop, imagine my surprise. SE need to give up the exclusivity bullshit, it isn't working in their favor.

 

[Ozriel]

He gave no values though. He said where the data is from only, usual trackers. He hasn't stated a value.

He gave relative sales performance. That's relevant sales data.

So i was right, he used third party equities research reports. He has no actual info, but utilized another analysts data which was an estimate.

Again, no actual connections.

He clearly specified that the reports compiled info from the relevant trackers. Why are you trying to paint these as random estimates from an analyst?

For what it's worth, Zhuge has been quoted and cited extensively here as a reputable sales insider for years.

 

[DonkeyPunchJr]

Come off it dude, the demo players is stated as 0.38M. Let's assume all the demo users from demo launch were part of the peak and take that away from 2.2M peak daily active users. you get 1.82M peak daily active users. Do you know what peak daily active users means? It means people playing the game in a single day. If you think that's representative of sales let alone shipped then I can't help you.

The Ampere analysis doesn't even equate this to sales. It uses engagement to project a massive 4M DAU for Stellar blade based on demo engagement. The lowball estimate for 'sales' comes from Push Square using this data incorrectly to predict "at least 2M sales". It's lowballing it and incorrect.

The peak daily active users is going to be pretty damn close to the # of copies sold during launch window. You think a significant # of people bought this game right when it came out and then didn’t play it for a full day during those first few days? What percentage do you think that is?

Maybe I’m wrong but I’d be surprised if the true # is more than a 10-20% increase.

 

[tmlDan]

He clearly specified that the reports compiled info from the relevant trackers. Why are you trying to paint these as random estimates from an analyst?

For what it's worth, Zhuge has been quoted and cited extensively here as a reputable sales insider for years.

He's never been a sales insider, he isn't Mat Piscatella. He's just an analyst of the Chinese market, I can be critical all i want because I know I'm right. Just like how I'm critical of Chris Dring for his assumptions he makes.

Daniel also turned off his comments because he's afraid to properly answer people, stop saying Zhuge, that's not his real name.

 

[StereoVsn]

Imagine how much better the industry would be if Sony spent it's money making PlayStation better instead of paying to make sure Xbox is worse off by paying off companies to keep their games off of Xbox?

Competition is great when both sides are fighting to make their companies better but competition is actually harmful if one or both sides focus on making their opponent's products worse rather than making their own product better.

… yes, Sony should have paid $70 billion for large publishers, driven their games into the shitter and then panicked and went multi platform. Yes, that would have been a sound strategy.

 

[Three]

He gave relative sales performance. That's relevant sales data.



He clearly specified that the reports compiled info from the relevant trackers. Why are you trying to paint these as random estimates from an analyst?

Nobody said what he said was meaningless. read what I said

He didn't provide any sales figures.

so there aren't 2 sources for this "sales figure". He hasn't corroborated the 2M.

 

[Ozriel]

He's never been a sales insider, he isn't Mat Piscatella. He's just an analyst of the Chinese market, I can be critical all i want because I know I'm right. Just like how I'm critical of Chris Dring for his assumptions he makes.

Again, this is a nonsensical position to take since he's long been cited here as a sales insider, has a public profile and is very often quoted and cited by traditional media as an individual in the know.

Daniel also turned off his comments because he's afraid to properly answer people, stop saying Zhuge, that's not his real name.

"We bullied him into turning off his comments because we couldn't handle the data. Hehe"

 

[Mister Wolf]

So FF7 Stillbirth is a sales flop, imagine my surprise. SE need to give up the exclusivity bullshit, it isn't working in their favor.

Watch they try to pull this shit with Dragon Quest.

 

[tmlDan]

Again, this is a nonsensical position to take since he's long been cited here as a sales insider, has a public profile and is very often quoted and cited by traditional media as an individual in the know.



"We bullied him into turning off his comments because we couldn't handle the data. Hehe"

Again, why are you fully trusting individuals who just say things online without a source to back it up.

You're not winning any argument here, answer this, does he focus on anything but the Chinese market with this OWN actual research and data? People are bullied online because you say one off statements without any relevant back up info, you say "couldn't handle the data" WHAT DATA? he hasn't share ANY data. He said words, those are not data, where are the numbers?

 

[rkofan87]

Ppl liked 16 way more, FF7 rides on nostalgia and thats It, If u played the OG FF7 Remake is a good game, If not its just too cringe.

this 1000% 16 has more fun combat and a better map imo.

 

[Dr. Claus]

Again, why are you fully trusting individuals who just say things online without a source to back it up.

You're not winning any argument here, answer this, does he focus on anything but the Chinese market with this OWN actual research and data? People are bullied online because you say one off statements without any relevant back up info, you say "couldn't handle the data" WHAT DATA? he hasn't share ANY data. He said words, those are not data, where are the numbers?

Mate, there is no reason to discuss. Folks like Oziel, Chukhopops, etc are all well known and diehard xbox warriors. They will twist and turn anything that is an exclusive, whether timed or otherwise, into being a failure because it isn't on their preferred plastic box.

 

[Three]

The peak daily active users is going to be pretty damn close to the # of copies sold during launch window. You think a significant # of people bought this game right when it came out and then didn’t play it for a full day during those first few days? What percentage do you think that is?

DAU is only the peak of one day, the percentage would depend on retention and sales trajectory overall so you can't really give a one size fits all percentage. You just know that value is the lower limit of sales. A percentage of buyers might buy or boot up a day after launch or people don't play all consecutive days and your values are going to show an even lower limit for 'sales'. Does steam CCU measure steam sales too during launch window? How much does that differ? Depends on the game and its retention but sales far outdo peak user values.

 

[Ozriel]

People are bullied online because you say one off statements without any relevant back up info, you say "couldn't handle the data" WHAT DATA? he hasn't share ANY data. He said words, those are not data, where are the numbers?

Webster's dictionary, meaning of the word data:

factual information (such as measurements or statistics) used as a basis for reasoning, discussion, or calculation

half, 50% whatever. That's data.

Again, why are you fully trusting individuals who just say things online without a source to back it up.

You're not winning any argument here, answer this, does he focus on anything but the Chinese market with this OWN actual research and data?

While his key responsibility is the Asian market, he doesn't historically focus only on the Chinese market and has long been recognized as a person with access to reputable global data.
You're not going to get any traction with this line of attack.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

I think everyone here is mostly just talking about the mainline FF series. SQEX has lots of great AA games. Apparently they plan to move away from that though.

That'd be a mistake on their part. The problem with SE's release schedule wasn't making AA games, it was releasing games way to damn close to one another alongside bad release timings in general.

People can only buy but so many games at a time, even big-spending hardcore gamers. If money isn't the issue, time would be.

I will not buy Rebirth because I played Remake.

Remake was, in my opinion, terrible. The dialogue, cinematic and character designs are, for lack of a better word, cringe. The story changes were not for the better, and dragging it out over 10x the time as the original was meandering and tedious.

Then the battle system… hated it. Stagger systems are trash. I didn’t find it implemented block and dodge mechanics very well or gave good player feedback. To be honest I played Remake after 16 and in retrospect 16’s battle system is probably a lot better than Remakes’s.

So yeah, no interest in Rebirth because modern SE is not appealing to me. I play 14 still but if Dawntrail is still more of the same then I think I can finally come drop anything SE from my gaming lineup.

Which is a shame because up until 12, they would have been my number 1 developer.

You literally could have played the FREE DEMO to decide for yourself if Rebirth is to your liking or not, instead of assuming it isn't simply because of your time with Remake. The demo's literally right there on PSN. It's free. You can download it, play it, and judge Rebirth on its own merits from there.

I don't get this notion of vehemently holding Rebirth accountable for Remake when you can judge Rebirth by its own workings with the demo. For all you know, they might've fixed many of the things you took issue with in Remake.

He's never been a sales insider, he isn't Mat Piscatella. He's just an analyst of the Chinese market, I can be critical all i want because I know I'm right. Just like how I'm critical of Chris Dring for his assumptions he makes.

Daniel also turned off his comments because he's afraid to properly answer people, stop saying Zhuge, that's not his real name.

If you can't take the heat, don't step into the kitchen.

Why do people like this make statements with rather serious implications (implications that can actually negatively affect a company's stock value, for example), unprovoked at that (i.e no one directly asked him to comment on Rebirth sales before he just did so out of the blue), and then run & cower when they only want yes-people and brown-nosers to agree with their opinions?

Like it's friggin' Twitter dude, it's a public forum. You say something like a major game supposedly underperforming, you should expect people to ask you how, why, or even to provide sources or evidence to back it up. At least he didn't lock his "info" behind a Patreon like Imran Kahn does :/

The game would sell better if it was on more than one platform. 2 million isn’t very good. It can do more. The rest of what you’re saying is neither here nor there. In order to justify the development costs it needs to not be selling half of what the first Remake sold. Particularly considering it no doubt cost more to make than Remake.

As some others have already provided ITT, apparently the 2 million is the launch figure, which would've tracked at most the first week, not the entire month of March let alone anything of April. That particular point wasn't mentioned in the OP for...reasons, apparently.

So the truth is we really don't know what the sales would be for the game beyond the first week. The could be 4 million as of right now. They could be 2 million still (very unlikely). They could be less than 2 million due to refunds (very very unlikely). Fact is we don't know.

However, I never said the game wouldn't sell better if it was on more than one platform. The question is how much better would it actually be selling? Not every sale on an additional platform is an actual extra sale, because some people would have multiple platforms and would just choose one over the other to buy the game on. That's a lateral sale. We've actually been seeing some of that in action with Helldivers 2, even.

Also an assumption you're making here is that it "absolutely" cost more than Remake. I don't know if that's actually true. Remake had to be restarted at some point because the dev work with CyberConnect was gutted. Some of Remake's costs probably also accounted for engine programming and improvements. Also dev costs associated with Intergrade may've also absorbed some would-be costs for Rebirth.

Overall I wouldn't be surprised if Rebirth's costs were between $100 - $150 million at most. It may be using a lot of improved assets from Remake & Intergrade, but those are improved assets, not new assets. There are new assets too, obviously, but some of those may've used pre-existing assets as a base and then altered them significantly. All of this stuff would contribute to saving in development costs.

And, like with Remake, S-E might've already set up some parts of Rebirth on the dev end to account towards Part 3's development, which might shift some costs forward on that end. I don't know any of this for a certainty, it's just speculation. But I think it's sound speculation to make.

 

[rofif]

Ppl liked 16 way more, FF7 rides on nostalgia and thats It, If u played the OG FF7 Remake is a good game, If not its just too cringe.

16 was so amazing. Actually knew what it was and executed it's story and gameplay from beginning to end.
There was some bad pacing in the middle but not as bad as this.

Rebirth is a bloated mess of an open world. They totally ruined the original story and impact of emotional scenes from the original game with their crappy new story.
It should've been a remake. Not a "remake". I liked it well enough but I wanted it to finish by the end. I liked Remake more than Rebirth too but it shares the same story faults.

 

[Dr. Claus]

That'd be a mistake on their part. The problem with SE's release schedule wasn't making AA games, it was releasing games way to damn close to one another alongside bad release timings in general.

People can only buy but so many games at a time, even big-spending hardcore gamers. If money isn't the issue, time would be.



You literally could have played the FREE DEMO to decide for yourself if Rebirth is to your liking or not, instead of assuming it isn't simply because of your time with Remake. The demo's literally right there on PSN. It's free. You can download it, play it, and judge Rebirth on its own merits from there.

I don't get this notion of vehemently holding Rebirth accountable for Remake when you can judge Rebirth by its own workings with the demo. For all you know, they might've fixed many of the things you took issue with in Remake.



If you can't take the heat, don't step into the kitchen.

Why do people like this make statements with rather serious implications (implications that can actually negatively affect a company's stock value, for example), unprovoked at that (i.e no one directly asked him to comment on Rebirth sales before he just did so out of the blue), and then run & cower when they only want yes-people and brown-nosers to agree with their opinions?

Like it's friggin' Twitter dude, it's a public forum. You say something like a major game supposedly underperforming, you should expect people to ask you how, why, or even to provide sources or evidence to back it up. At least he didn't lock his "info" behind a Patreon like Imran Kahn does :/

I don't see why anyone takes Zhuge/Daniel seriously. The mental case was a big in Era for years and defended their cancerous/hate-filled ways.

That alone should indicate no one should ever take him seriously.

 

[rofif]

It’s a sequel so it’ll well worse than the previous game by default, everyone didn’t like/finish the first one and obviously won’t buy the sequel at release.
Just get that PC port out while it’s still somewhat new and it’ll sell more. I’ll buy it.

But this doesn't track.
You might think that only those who liked the first game, bought the 2nd one and of course 2nd game sells less than first one.

Then you look at witcher3. Franchise could just as well be indie in sales number compared to how witcher 3 exploded without ton of people never even playing 1 or 2

 

[DonkeyPunchJr]

DAU is only the peak of one day, the percentage would depend on retention and sales trajectory overall so you can't really give a one size fits all percentage. You just know that value is the lower limit of sales. A percentage of buyers might buy or boot up a day after launch or people don't play all consecutive days and your values are going to show an even lower limit for 'sales'. Does steam CCU measure steam sales too during launch window? How much does that differ? Depends on the game and its retention but sales far outdo peak user values.

I understand that it’s a lower limit, I’m saying that logically the true # is not going to be much higher than that. Almost everyone who bought the game at launch is going to launch the game at least once per day during those first few days.

# of concurrent users is a totally different thing so I’m not sure why you’re even bringing that up.

 

[Ozriel]

Mate, there is no reason to discuss. Folks like Oziel, Chukhopops, etc are all well known and diehard xbox warriors. They will twist and turn anything that is an exclusive, whether timed or otherwise, into being a failure because it isn't on their preferred plastic box.

Seems like projection on your part, since that's what you do in Xbox threads. Most of my comments in threads for PlayStation exclusives are usually very positive.

I haven't even called Rebirth a 'failure' in this case. It looks like it's selling slower than I'd have expected, but there's a PC release to come and it's possible Sony paid a ton to Square Enix to secure exclusivity. No information on the profitability of the title.

But it's MUCH easier to go with this ad-hominem vs actually try to reach for a logical discussion.

 

[Danjin44]

If you guys considerer FFVII Rebirth as "bad" game then you guys should stop playing SE games all together, because no matter what they do you guys never going to be happy with them.

I think I put 100 + hours in to Rebirth and loved every minute of it. GAF love doom and gloom majority of the game comes out, thank god I'm not that jaded yet....that would miserable.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

I don't see why anyone takes Zhuge/Daniel seriously. The mental case was a big in Era for years and defended their cancerous/hate-filled ways.

That alone should indicate no one should ever take him seriously.

Even the other day I was treating all of this as very loose speculation on their end, especially since it hasn't been corroborated by any other industry person (not in the way to say that the game's underperforming).

But now it having been clarified that the data referenced is just speaking to launch activity (Day 1 or Week 1), and nothing beyond that, makes a lot of the doom-and-glooming look stupid. We don't have any way to guess where Rebirth's sales are at right now, but they would surely be higher than 2 million.

Personally I would not be surprised if the launch sales were slower than XVI's, but sales over the majority of March and up to this point in April have probably put it at or somewhat above the initial reported figures for XVI. I'd guess S-E are waiting for either 4 million or 5 million before making a public statement, or until their next fiscal quarter results, whichever comes first.

Could the sales be better? Sure, any game's sales could always be better theoretically. But some of the militant takes that it's "absolutely" exclusivity to blame, and then saying the game is "failing" because it's a PlayStation exclusive (there's some of it here, prob a lot on Twitter & Reddit, absolutely a ton of it on ResetERA), are just very room temperature. Partly because I'm pretty sure sales are a lot more than 2 million by this point (it might've taken longer to reach 3.4 million than XVI did, though), and partly because there would be a whole bunch of other factors to consider before even turning to the "exclusivity" talking point.

But this doesn't track.
You might think that only those who liked the first game, bought the 2nd one and of course 2nd game sells less than first one.

Then you look at witcher3. Franchise could just as well be indie in sales number compared to how witcher 3 exploded without ton of people never even playing 1 or 2

Was Witcher 3 a direct continuation of Witcher 2's main story? Rebirth literally picks up immediately where Remake left all, same characters, unresolved plot points and everything. I don't think Witcher 3 is the same thing sequel-wise.

That would probably go for most sequels actually. Yes, it'd help to have played previous installments, but the storylines themselves are usually self-contained plot-wise. Maybe some themes and character-driven story beats carry over between games but you don't need to know them to play the newer installment.

 

[rofif]

Even the other day I was treating all of this as very loose speculation on their end, especially since it hasn't been corroborated by any other industry person (not in the way to say that the game's underperforming).

But now it having been clarified that the data referenced is just speaking to launch activity (Day 1 or Week 1), and nothing beyond that, makes a lot of the doom-and-glooming look stupid. We don't have any way to guess where Rebirth's sales are at right now, but they would surely be higher than 2 million.

Personally I would not be surprised if the launch sales were slower than XVI's, but sales over the majority of March and up to this point in April have probably put it at or somewhat above the initial reported figures for XVI. I'd guess S-E are waiting for either 4 million or 5 million before making a public statement, or until their next fiscal quarter results, whichever comes first.

Could the sales be better? Sure, any game's sales could always be better theoretically. But some of the militant takes that it's "absolutely" exclusivity to blame, and then saying the game is "failing" because it's a PlayStation exclusive (there's some of it here, prob a lot on Twitter & Reddit, absolutely a ton of it on ResetERA), are just very room temperature. Partly because I'm pretty sure sales are a lot more than 2 million by this point (it might've taken longer to reach 3.4 million than XVI did, though), and partly because there would be a whole bunch of other factors to consider before even turning to the "exclusivity" talking point.



Was Witcher 3 a direct continuation of Witcher 2's main story? Rebirth literally picks up immediately where Remake left all, same characters, unresolved plot points and everything. I don't think Witcher 3 is the same thing sequel-wise.

That would probably go for most sequels actually. Yes, it'd help to have played previous installments, but the storylines themselves are usually self-contained plot-wise. Maybe some themes and character-driven story beats carry over between games but you don't need to know them to play the newer installment.

no. Witcher 3 is a direct continuation but with some time passed between games.

 

[Three]

I understand that it’s a lower limit, I’m saying that logically the true # is not going to be much higher than that. Almost everyone who bought the game at launch is going to launch the game at least once per day during those first few days.

# of concurrent users is a totally different thing so I’m not sure why you’re even bringing that up.

Concurrent users is not a different thing its just different binning of the exact same statistical data. And what about sales happening during those days? What about the percentage that play and drop the game? What you're saying isn't true at all.