Support NeoGAF

[Rocket Scientist]

Oh god, at times like these I wish Manos was here.

 

[Zabka]

That looks like it would be a lot of fun to bust up.

 

[Wazzim]

:lol at that structure. Oh my god lmao

 

[Harry Potter]

Pepper spray that structure. I hate these fucks.

 

[makingmusic476]

These protests have so much potential, but shit like this keeps happening.

 

[GrotesqueBeauty]

These protests have so much potential, but shit like this keeps happening.

There are hundreds of thousands of protesters (if not more) spread across dozens of major cities, and they have been protesting for months now. What's interesting to me is how corporate mediated news outlets and far right nutters latch onto relatively minor instances of stupidity in an attempt to discredit the movement as a whole while glossing over the massive number of people peacefully participating from all walks of life, cogent messages about the structure of power and influence in our society arising from the protests, blatant militarization of police forces, etc., etc., etc. If the occasional badly thought out impromptu shelter or a few bottles of piss are the worst they can dredge up it just shows how hollow the vitriol and venom aimed at occupiers is. Not to say that those things reflect well on the Occupy movement, but they're being given a disproportionate amount of attention while much more serious matters are being whitewashed.

 

[CHEEZMO™]

These protests have so much potential, but shit like this keeps happening.

There's nothing I like less than bad arguments for a view that I hold dear.

- Daniel Dennett

 

[makingmusic476]

There are hundreds of thousands of protesters (if not more) spread across dozens of major cities, and they have been protesting for months now. What's interesting to me is how corporate mediated news outlets and far right nutters latch onto relatively minor instances of stupidity in an attempt to discredit the movement as a whole while glossing over the massive number of people peacefully participating from all walks of life, cogent messages about the structure of power and influence in our society arising from the protests, blatant militarization of police forces, etc., etc., etc. If the occasional badly thought out impromptu shelter or a few bottles of piss are the worst they can dredge up it just shows how hollow the vitriol and venom aimed at occupiers is. Not to say that those things reflect well on the Occupy movement, but they're being given a disproportionate amount of attention while much more serious matters are being whitewashed.

I agree. It's just hard to get people on board when all they see in the media is stuff like this. -_-

Though I do like using things like this to counteract the "lazy bums that can't do anything" talking point. They obviously have a few handy construction workers out there!

@cheezmo: Exactly. ;_;

 

[Morn]

Stockpiling? Or was it simply their solution to not pissing on the ground given the lack of toilets?

There wasn't a lack of toilets. The city placed a ton of portable toilets for them.

 

[cooljeanius]

There's nothing I like less than bad arguments for a view that I hold dear.

- Daniel Dennett

That's a great quote, where did he say it?

 

[Oblivion]

Aftermath of Occupy LA. That's piss in that bottle. They were apparently stockpiling their piss. They found gallon-sized jugs full of it:

I wish you posted in Poligaf. We've been looking for new conservative best friends.

 

[NervousXtian]

There are hundreds of thousands of protesters (if not more) spread across dozens of major cities, and they have been protesting for months now. What's interesting to me is how corporate mediated news outlets and far right nutters latch onto relatively minor instances of stupidity in an attempt to discredit the movement as a whole while glossing over the massive number of people peacefully participating from all walks of life, cogent messages about the structure of power and influence in our society arising from the protests, blatant militarization of police forces, etc., etc., etc. If the occasional badly thought out impromptu shelter or a few bottles of piss are the worst they can dredge up it just shows how hollow the vitriol and venom aimed at occupiers is. Not to say that those things reflect well on the Occupy movement, but they're being given a disproportionate amount of attention while much more serious matters are being whitewashed.

..well.. at least that's something to discuss... almost every time they give one of the OWS protesters a chance on TV they make themselves look stupid.

Also, what's to discuss? Vague messages of inequality? If the people wanted to hear it, mainstream media would pick the stories up. Mainstream media sells whatever people are buying, and they aren't buying OWS, sad enough.

 

[maharg]

Ah yes, the media never twists a story.

 

[alstein]

..well.. at least that's something to discuss... almost every time they give one of the OWS protesters a chance on TV they make themselves look stupid.

Also, what's to discuss? Vague messages of inequality? If the people wanted to hear it, mainstream media would pick the stories up. Mainstream media sells whatever people are buying, and they aren't buying OWS, sad enough.

Mainstream media is owned by folks who don't wish OWS to succeed.

 

[bounchfx]

..well.. at least that's something to discuss... almost every time they give one of the OWS protesters a chance on TV they make themselves look stupid.

uh, don't you mean, they only air the footage that makes them appear stupid?

come on now

 

[pje122]

I wish you posted in Poligaf. We've been looking for new conservative best friends.

I think conservatives on GAF would know better than to go into such threads at all...

 

[ReBurn]

uh, don't you mean, they only air the footage that makes them appear stupid?

come on now

They're just showing what happened before the police brutality started because the OWS'ers always leave that part out in their Youtube videos.

 

[bill gonorrhea]

Yeah... not really sure what they were thinking there...

I know, a Pentagon? What were they thinking?

 

[iirate]

Have we talked about the new OWS fatality in Texas yet...?

Happened right next to my campus. Definitely was shocking news to wake up to.

 

[.GqueB.]

Fucking building permits and fire codes, how do they work?

Thats pretty impressive actually...

TARR EHT DEWN!!!

 

[remnant]

You act like bans are forever. Depending on the offense, they can be extended, but most are only temporary. I just hope we can all exercise some discipline when he returns, and not get drawn in to the 'I am an obstacle, you must respond to me' vortex he likes to create. I include myself i that.

When you start multiquoting against his devil's advocacy act, you've already lost, because ultimately he doesn't care. He's only there to get a rise out of you.

And anyway, I hadn't thought about him until you came back to "haw-haw" it up for your fallen hero, teruteru.

You guys can't even do that now.

It's kinda sad.

 

[kame-sennin]

People on the eastern Horn of Africa are starving because of the bankers?

I don't know if this is what he was talking about, but:

But it wasn't the consumption of real oil that was driving up prices — it was the trade in paper oil. By the summer of 2008, in fact, commodities speculators had bought and stockpiled enough oil futures to fill 1.1 billion barrels of crude, which meant that speculators owned more future oil on paper than there was real, physical oil stored in all of the country's commercial storage tanks and the Strategic Petroleum Reserve combined. It was a repeat of both the Internet craze and the housing bubble, when Wall Street jacked up present-day profits by selling suckers shares of a fictional fantasy future of endlessly rising prices.

In what was by now a painfully familiar pattern, the oil-commodities melon hit the pavement hard in the summer of 2008, causing a massive loss of wealth; crude prices plunged from $147 to $33. Once again the big losers were ordinary people. The pensioners whose funds invested in this crap got massacred: CalPERS, the California Public Employees' Retirement System, had $1.1 billion in commodities when the crash came. And the damage didn't just come from oil. Soaring food prices driven by the commodities bubble led to catastrophes across the planet, forcing an estimated 100 million people into hunger and sparking food riots throughout the Third World.

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/the-great-american-bubble-machine-20100405?page=5

Also, what's to discuss? Vague messages of inequality? If the people wanted to hear it, mainstream media would pick the stories up. Mainstream media sells whatever people are buying, and they aren't buying OWS, sad enough.

This doesn't even need to be attacked from a political perspective. Even from a business standpoint, it's a silly argument. Companies sell all sorts of products that people aren't happy with, and they drop the ball on selling products that people want. That's why there's always room for innovators to enter a market and address inefficiencies.

 

[NervousXtian]

This doesn't even need to be attacked from a political perspective. Even from a business standpoint, it's a silly argument. Companies sell all sorts of products that people aren't happy with, and they drop the ball on selling products that people want. That's why there's always room for innovators to enter a market and address inefficiencies.

You pretend there isn't left leaning mainstream media. You can only cover people in parks for so long, and the whole police brutality thing is pretty much what's left.

Thing is, OWS had a chance to evolve the movement when the camps were being taken down.. and they chose to... wait for it... make more camps!

Unless the O in OWS really means this movement is just about occupying parks.

If nothing else OWS has proven there is a good portion of people who actually want some kind of change, evolve the movement into something substantial and worthwhile. The whole camping thing just needs to go. Heck the constant protesting needs to go, you're going to wear out your welcome with the general population.

It needs to be a political movement.

Did OWS not pay attention to the Tea Party at all?

 

[nib95]

There are hundreds of thousands of protesters (if not more) spread across dozens of major cities, and they have been protesting for months now. What's interesting to me is how corporate mediated news outlets and far right nutters latch onto relatively minor instances of stupidity in an attempt to discredit the movement as a whole while glossing over the massive number of people peacefully participating from all walks of life, cogent messages about the structure of power and influence in our society arising from the protests, blatant militarization of police forces, etc., etc., etc. If the occasional badly thought out impromptu shelter or a few bottles of piss are the worst they can dredge up it just shows how hollow the vitriol and venom aimed at occupiers is. Not to say that those things reflect well on the Occupy movement, but they're being given a disproportionate amount of attention while much more serious matters are being whitewashed.

Bingo. Cherry picked nonsense. Along with other crap such as the protestors mainly being unemployed hippies or students etc. The media hate campaign is in full force and people are gobbling it up in force.

But then again, this is the US we're talking about. So often the Government/Media convince people of the most outrageous things. And depressingly, huge portions of the population are taken in by it. Iraq, Guantanamo, reporters calling out CIA inaccuracies or false claims, ousting their own informants, the danger or threat so and so poses, whatever they need to really.

 

[ToxicAdam]

I didn't see the same impassioned vitriol when the same thing was happening to the Tea Party people.

It needs to be a political movement.

Did OWS not pay attention to the Tea Party at all?

But, what did the Tea Party actually accomplish in way of legislation? They may have shifted the conversation for a few years, ejected a few weakened politicians in swing states (during one of the worst Recessions of modern times) ... but what did they actually DO that you can point to that has changed things?

 

[dave is ok]

But, what did the Tea Party actually accomplish in way of legislation? They may have shifted the conversation for a few years, ejected a few weakened politicians in swing states (during one of the worst Recessions of modern times) ... but what did they actually DO that you can point to that has changed things?

They got some Republicans elected, which was basically the whole point from the start.

 

[BruiserBear]

There are hundreds of thousands of protesters (if not more) spread across dozens of major cities, and they have been protesting for months now. What's interesting to me is how corporate mediated news outlets and far right nutters latch onto relatively minor instances of stupidity in an attempt to discredit the movement as a whole while glossing over the massive number of people peacefully participating from all walks of life, cogent messages about the structure of power and influence in our society arising from the protests, blatant militarization of police forces, etc., etc., etc. If the occasional badly thought out impromptu shelter or a few bottles of piss are the worst they can dredge up it just shows how hollow the vitriol and venom aimed at occupiers is. Not to say that those things reflect well on the Occupy movement, but they're being given a disproportionate amount of attention while much more serious matters are being whitewashed.

That is the way of the world today. There is nothing unique about that with this movement, or the coverage of it.

Hell, I see that happen in threads on this forum daily.

 

[nib95]

Wiki's description of OWS actually has a pretty good summary of some of the key issues.

Occupy Wall Street (OWS) is an ongoing series of demonstrations initiated by the Canadian activist group Adbusters which began September 17, 2011 in Zuccotti Park, located in New York City's Wall Street financial district. The protests are against social and economic inequality, high unemployment, greed, as well as corruption, and the undue influence of corporations—particularly from the financial services sector—on government. The protesters' slogan We are the 99% refers to the growing difference in wealth in the U.S. between the wealthiest 1% and the rest of the population.

 

[akira28]

You guys can't even do that now.

It's kinda sad.

"...and your little dog too."

 

[JzeroT1437]

:lol at that structure. Oh my god lmao

I hope an Amish buggy drives by and laughs at these assholes.

 

[kame-sennin]

Angela Davis at OWS:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIketXjGcXI

Thing is, OWS had a chance to evolve the movement when the camps were being taken down.. and they chose to... wait for it... make more camps!

Unless the O in OWS really means this movement is just about occupying parks.

If nothing else OWS has proven there is a good portion of people who actually want some kind of change, evolve the movement into something substantial and worthwhile. The whole camping thing just needs to go. Heck the constant protesting needs to go, you're going to wear out your welcome with the general population.

It needs to be a political movement.

I think a little patience is required. When Liberty Square/Zucotti Park was demolished, it was really devastating for a lot of people. From an outside perspective, it seems like the perfect opportunity to regroup and adapt - and it is, but it's going to take some time for the people within the movement to get their bearings. A lot of people have talked about changing or advancing tactics, but we're not going to see the effects of that overnight.

Did OWS not pay attention to the Tea Party at all?

People need to stop comparing OWS to the Tea Party. The Tea Party was co-opted almost immediately by the Republican party and corporate backers. Once that happened, it was just a get out the vote campaign for the Republican party. The main lesson to learn from the Tea Party is not to endorse candidates, or at the very least, not to allow your movement to become a wing of one of the two parties.

 

[Clay Davis]

occupy london added to terror list.

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/police-include-occupy-movement-on-‘terror’-list.html

i know someone who is protesting and while i dont agree with the argument i dont consider her or those shes introduced me to be a danger to anyone or anything.

 

[LuchaShaq]

I didn't see the same impassioned vitriol when the same thing was happening to the Tea Party people.




But, what did the Tea Party actually accomplish in way of legislation? They may have shifted the conversation for a few years, ejected a few weakened politicians in swing states (during one of the worst Recessions of modern times) ... but what did they actually DO that you can point to that has changed things?

Pushed out moderates like me who would vote republican, who alse used to be able to ignore religious psychopaths and anti intelligence meat sacks.


Also LOL at the leftist media mattering at all about covering OWS.

Giant media companies don't want to publicize OWS in any light but negative or dismissive due to their own pocketbooks.

 

[NervousXtian]

People need to stop comparing OWS to the Tea Party. The Tea Party was co-opted almost immediately by the Republican party and corporate backers. Once that happened, it was just a get out the vote campaign for the Republican party. The main lesson to learn from the Tea Party is not to endorse candidates, or at the very least, not to allow your movement to become a wing of one of the two parties.

They at least accomplished "something". I can't stand their message, but they got people elected.

Take back the democratic party if that's what needs to be done. If you're really pushing an agenda that is good for the 99% then take it Washington. Expecting anything else to be done just by protesting is wasted breath.

The main lesson from the Tea Party movement IS to take over a party, and then push through change the only way change can actually happen.


What exactly is mic-checking a fucking Wal-Mart and camping in a park and disrupting traffic going to accomplish? Honestly now. What will it accomplish?

 

[cooljeanius]

It needs to be a political movement.

Did OWS not pay attention to the Tea Party at all?

OWS paid far too much attention to the Tea Party. The lesson OWS decided to learn from the Tea Party was that by becoming a political movement, they allowed themselves to get co-opted by the Republican Party and hence become irrelevant. Thus OWS is making every effort it can not to be co-opted by the Democratic Party. Which, in my opinion, is preventing it from having any sort of real effect. My narrative for why this is happening is because OWS is actually made up of people who were part of the Tea Party before they got co-opted, and decided to re-brand themselves by moving to the left, with the vow that this time, they won't get co-opted.

 

[Bealost]

I'm unsure of how far Occupy should go in the direction of a political movement. I would really love to see the democrats get behind it, but I would want to see the Dems effect the change we want, not use it as a re-election strategy. I honestly think that causing a little bit of disruption to the general population is a great way to get media coverage which you can (hopefully) use to spread your message and inform people.

Clearly one of the most important goals of Occupy should be to educate the general population on the corruption that is actually taking place in our government, going so far as to make specific examples of corrupt politicians. I'm ashamed to admit that as of last night I was unaware of Newt Gingrich's shady, to put it mildly, past and he is a front runner in the republican primary. If his dirty laundry isn't something the average person knows, I can't imagine what else is going on that even people who try to educate themselves on the matter don't know about.

 

[ReBurn]

Considering who OWS is trying to represent I hope that the movement stays as far away from political parties as possible. I think it would be disingenuous for democrats to try to co-opt it as a liberal movement, because it doesn't want to be.

To represent 99% of Americans it needs to be party neutral and hold all politicians to the same standard. I feel that's why the messages that have come out of it are addressed to the government as a whole. The entire system is the problem.

 

[kame-sennin]

I know there hasn't been a lot of discussion in this thread about celebrities, but comicbook writer Alan Moore (V for Vendetta, Watchmen) was asked about Frank Miller's (The Dark Knight Returns, 300, Sin City) angry anti-OWS rant, and I thought what he said was really insightful:

With the Occupy movement, it seems you and Frank Miller have conflicting views. Would you say that he’s against it and you’re for it?

Well, Frank Miller is someone whose work I’ve barely looked at for the past twenty years. I thought the Sin City stuff was unreconstructed misogyny, 300 appeared to be wildly ahistoric, homophobic and just completely misguided. I think that there has probably been a rather unpleasant sensibility apparent in Frank Miller’s work for quite a long time. Since I don’t have anything to do with the comics industry, I don’t have anything to do with the people in it. I heard about the latest outpourings regarding the Occupy movement. It’s about what I’d expect from him. It’s always seemed to me that the majority of the comics field, if you had to place them politically, you’d have to say centre-right. That would be as far towards the liberal end of the spectrum as they would go. I’ve never been in any way, I don’t even know if I’m centre-left. I’ve been outspoken about that since the beginning of my career. So yes I think it would be fair to say that me and Frank Miller have diametrically opposing views upon all sorts of things, but certainly upon the Occupy movement.

As far as I can see, the Occupy movement is just ordinary people reclaiming rights which should always have been theirs. I can’t think of any reason why as a population we should be expected to stand by and see a gross reduction in the living standards of ourselves and our kids, possibly for generations, when the people who have got us into this have been rewarded for it; they’ve certainly not been punished in any way because they’re too big to fail. I think that the Occupy movement is, in one sense, the public saying that they should be the ones to decide who’s too big to fail. It’s a completely justified howl of moral outrage and it seems to be handled in a very intelligent, non-violent way, which is probably another reason why Frank Miller would be less than pleased with it. I’m sure if it had been a bunch of young, sociopathic vigilantes with Batman make-up on their faces, he’d be more in favour of it. We would definitely have to agree to differ on that one.

What do you think needs to change in our political system?

Everything. I believe that what’s needed is a radical solution, by which I mean from the roots upwards. Our entire political thinking seems to me to be based upon medieval precepts. These things, they didn’t work particularly well five or six hundred years ago. Their slightly modified forms are not adequate at all for the rapidly changing territory of the 21st Century.

We need to overhaul the way that we think about money, we need to overhaul the way that we think about who’s running the show. As an anarchist, I believe that power should be given to the people, to the people whose lives this is actually affecting. It’s no longer good enough to have a group of people who are controlling our destinies. The only reason they have the power is because they control the currency. They have no moral authority and, indeed, they show the opposite of moral authority.

In the sixth issue of Dodgem Logic, I remember doing an article and I was trying to think of possible ways in which our society might be altered for the better. I’m not saying that any of these ways would necessarily be practical but it’s important that we try to think these things through. It’s probably more important now than it ever has been. There is a sense that we don’t have an infinite amount of time to get these things right.

With politics at the moment seemingly determined to keep ploughing on their same destructive course because they can’t think of anything other to do, when we’re facing the possibility of an economic apocalypse, of potentially an environmental apocalypse, we don’t necessarily have an infinite amount of time. I think that since our leaders are not going to address any of these problems then we really have no choice than to attempt to wrest the steering wheel from them. If they’re aiming at the precipice with the accelerator pedal flat to the floor, then we don’t have any other choices left. Do it now, in this generation, because we don’t how many more there’s going to be.

The economic problem is a strange one…

Economics is always strange. You’re not talking about anything that’s actually real. Researching a chapter for Jerusalem, I read a couple of books on economics to see if I could get my head around the facts of the situation. I was astonished when I found out the value of derivative bonds, in 2008. These are bonds that have a value in themselves that were once connected to a real thing, there might have been a bond made for the sale of a herd of sheep, but that can be sold on and they gain in value. The notional value of the world’s derivative bonds was in the region of sixty trillion. Exactly ten times the economic output of the entire planet, which is around six trillion. That means that the gap between what economists and what the world’s economic forces and the banks thought they had to play with and what actually existed was fifty-four trillion. That would seem to me the depth of the hole we are in.

So something has to be done about that. I would suggest beheading the bankers, but while it would be very satisfying and would cheer us up, it probably wouldn’t do anything practical to alter the situation. Behead the currency. Change the currency, why not? It would disempower all the people who had bought into that currency but it would pretty much empower the rest of us, the other ninety-nine percent.

http://www.honestpublishing.com/new...he-occupy-movement-frank-miller-and-politics/

 

[kame-sennin]

Take back the democratic party if that's what needs to be done. If you're really pushing an agenda that is good for the 99% then take it Washington. Expecting anything else to be done just by protesting is wasted breath.

It's disheartening to see this argument continue to come up. You can't change a systematically corrupt electoral process by running candidates through that same corrupt system. For example, if both major parties count Goldman Sachs among their biggest donors, how can you possibly run a candidate in either party who wants to prosecute Goldman? It can't happen. If you want to run in either party, you need to accept money from the same organizations, which compromises any change you may have wanted to institute. If you want national press coverage, which is essential to winning national elections, you need to be vetted by the major parties or you need to be outrageously rich. Otherwise, the corporate media won't give you the time of day. The system is fundamentally broken. Change can no longer come from within. Now, change is only possible by the citizenry putting enormous public pressure on those in office and forcing them to change.

The main lesson from the Tea Party movement IS to take over a party, and then push through change the only way change can actually happen.

What political party did the anti-Vietnam war movement take over? Or the civil rights movement? Richard Nixon, a republican, got as out of Vietnam because public pressure had built to the point where there was no other option. LBJ, a southern democrat, signed the Civil Rights Act into law even though he knew that it would loose the South for the democratic party for decades. He did it anyway because of public pressure. Do not underestimate the power of the public to force change. The government can only rule at the consent of the governed. When the people in power loose the consent of the public, their only option is to change course or abdicate power.

 

[nib95]

I know there hasn't been a lot of discussion in this thread about celebrities, but comicbook writer Alan Moore (V for Vendetta, Watchmen) was asked about Frank Miller's (The Dark Knight Returns, 300, Sin City) angry anti-OWS rant, and I thought what he said was really insightful:



http://www.honestpublishing.com/new...he-occupy-movement-frank-miller-and-politics/

Pretty good rant. Only thing I'm not sure about is the bit about nulling the currency, not sure how that would affect corporate America. Never really thought about it, but I'd imagine the repercussions would be too grave.

 

[empty vessel]

Change can no longer come from within. Now, change is only possible by the citizenry putting enormous public pressure on those in office and forcing them to change.

I would say that change--substantial reform--has always come from without. It has always been forced on Congress by popular political movements. All government action is the result of influence. And when the population is not the one exerting that influence through public pressure, discrete corporate business interests do. In fact, there is a constant baseline of external business influence on Congress. The trick is (and always has been) to get public pressure in the form of movements to outweigh the pressure of corporate interests in the representatve's political calculus. Ideally, the public wouldn't have to compete with corporate interests at all, but that would require a fundamental transformation.

 

[sagi446]

Aftermath of Occupy LA. That's piss in that bottle. They were apparently stockpiling their piss. They found gallon-sized jugs full of it:

Why are OWS still beating around the bush? Demand wealth redistribution and drop Capitalism.

 

[sphagnum]

Why are OWS still beating around the bush? Demand wealth redistribution and drop Capitalism.

Because it's a movement without a leader, it doesn't have a top-down structure that can make demands. Many people in OWS have called for those things. Many other people in OWS have called for other things.

 

[cooljeanius]

Why are OWS still beating around the bush? Demand wealth redistribution and drop Capitalism.

Because we'd like to actually get some popular support for the movement, and a lot of people still like capitalism.

 

[sagi446]

Because we'd like to actually get some popular support for the movement, and a lot of people still like capitalism.

You enjoy the buttrape that is a Capitalist recession? or the fact that moral/common sense/ethics are absolutely put aside?

Capitalism looks good on paper. Not so much applied.

 

[Hartt951]

Why are OWS still beating around the bush? Demand wealth redistribution and drop Capitalism.

Because the media is already doing everything in their power to destroy the movement, a demand like that would kill the movement(not to mention, that would never and should never happen).

 

[Fatghost]

Why are OWS still beating around the bush? Demand wealth redistribution and drop Capitalism.

Capitalism is great. Hippies and communists are shit.

 

[Jenga]

You enjoy the buttrape that is a Capitalist recession? or the fact that moral/common sense/ethics are absolutely put aside?

Capitalism looks good on paper. Not so much applied.

lol

 

[travisbickle]

I don't know anyone who 'likes' capitalism, I know many people who tolerate it, but noone from my parents, family, work colleagues, friends who would say they 'liked' capitalism. What is there to like about it?

 

[Fatghost]

You enjoy the buttrape that is a Capitalist recession? or the fact that moral/common sense/ethics are absolutely put aside?

Capitalism looks good on paper. Not so much applied.

I've made a lot of money from this recession.