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[endre]

Does this mean that according to George and under the assumption that every book will be depicted in a one season TV show in consecutive years, we should consider ourselves lucky if The Winds of Winter comes out late 2015? 2016 doesn't even compute for me, unless they'll base the show on drafts. Even late 2015 should delay filming.

Or did he, by some miracle, include the seventh book in the calculation as well?

 

[gutshot]

I can see book 6 being out before the show catches up, but book 7... that will be interesting to see what they do when and if they get there.

Yup, I think 3-4 years is a reasonable estimate of time for GRRM to finish Winds. Considering, prior to these last two books, George was writing each book in 3-3.5 years. But there is no way on God's green earth that GRRM will finish BOTH books (assuming there are only two left) in 5 years. None. HBO will have to either delay the final season of the show or reveal the ending of the series before the book comes out.

Does this mean that according to George and under the assumption that every book will be depicted in a one season TV show in consecutive years, we should consider ourselves lucky if The Winds of Winter comes out late 2015? 2016 doesn't even compute for me, unless they'll base the show on drafts. Even late 2015 should delay filming.

Or did he, by some miracle, include the seventh book in the calculation as well?

David & Dan (the GoT writers/showrunners) have said they will be splitting A Storm of Swords into two seasons. So I think GRRM's thinking is this:

Season 3 (ASOS pt 1) airing Spring 2013
Season 4 (ASOS pt 2) airing Spring 2014
Season 5 (AFFC/ADWD pt 1) airing Spring 2015
Season 6 (AFFC/ADWD pt 2) airing Spring 2016

So George would need to have finished Winds by early 2016, so David & Dan could get started scripting season 7. Hence, 4 years.

 

[endre]

Thanks. I did not know there were confirmed splits for the TV show.

 

[gutshot]

Thanks. I did not know there were confirmed splits for the TV show.

Yes, the ASOS split was mentioned by David & Dan in an interview with the Daily Beast, I believe.

The AFFC/ADWD merging and splitting is only speculation for now. But I can't see them abandoning Jon, Dany, Tyrion, etc. for one whole season. So combining the storylines from AFFC/ADWD and then splitting the story in the middle chronologically to end up with two seasons makes the most sense.

 

[IAmtheFMan]

I'll give Martin the benefit of the doubt and hope that he's back in top form. From what I remember, Martin originally wanted to do 2 trilogies and had a pretty rough idea of what would happen in each, but then thought he needed to bridge the gap with AFFC (and eventually the excised portions of AFFC that ended up in ADWD.) To me, it looks like that's what his biggest problem was and why it took so long; he didn't really know what to tell, or how to really resolve the stuff in AFFC and ADWD since... well he never really thought of how to do it, hence problems like the Mereenese knot.

What I'm getting at is, that now that he's through that rough patch, hopefully he's focused back on his original story instead of the hazy middle area which he never really envisioned originally.

 

[Spiffy_1st]

I can see book 6 being out before the show catches up, but book 7... that will be interesting to see what they do when and if they get there.

End the HBO series at Winds of Winter and then let the final book be made into a trilogy of films.

 

[endre]

With comic books between.

Spoiler

Seriously, don't even think about this, someone in Hollywood might hear you

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

So I floated this in one of the TV threads, but as someone who is about to finish Book 2 and would love to talk about it but is petrified by this thread and its spoilers, I was thinking about creating a thread for each book, so there could be a safe place for people to discuss, with marked spoilers, at their current reading pace.

Is this crazy?

Please answer quickly, as I cannot tarry in this thread long.

Vote:
[ ] Has the truth of it
[ ] I'd rather eat honey braised lamb

 

[gutshot]

So I floated this in one of the TV threads, but as someone who is about to finish Book 2 and would love to talk about it but is petrified by this thread and its spoilers, I was thinking about creating a thread for each book, so there could be a safe place for people to discuss, with marked spoilers, at their current reading pace.

Is this crazy?

Please answer quickly, as I cannot tarry in this thread long.

Vote:
[ ] Has the truth of it
[ ] I'd rather eat honey braised lamb

You can use this thread as it has all spoilers marked.

Ok nerds, you win. Song of Ice and Fire is gud.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

You can use this thread as it has all spoilers marked.

Ok nerds, you win. Song of Ice and Fire is gud.

SWEET perfect thank you

*KAPWING*

 

[brentech]

Yes, the ASOS split was mentioned by David & Dan in an interview with the Daily Beast, I believe.

The AFFC/ADWD merging and splitting is only speculation for now. But I can't see them abandoning Jon, Dany, Tyrion, etc. for one whole season. So combining the storylines from AFFC/ADWD and then splitting the story in the middle chronologically to end up with two seasons makes the most sense.

Yeah, the way they moved things around to get characters in the final episode of season 1 provides a good foundation for them handling the two books as one. At the same time, that is years off and maybe they start to work a little differently, not that I actually think they would since it simply makes sense.



Since my first read-through of the series started during the middle of the HBO series, I was able to read all 5 books in succession. After completing that, I've let it all simmer for quite a while (although I did read the Dunk&Egg shorts about a month ago). The past week I watched season 1 again and then began re-reading GoT on my Kindle.
Trying to highlight every piece of information or good quote I come across. I already have some 20 highlights like 4 chapters in. It's kind of fun to pick things apart and see how he lays down the building blocks for everything, but a little slow going.

 

[AngryMoth]

Yes, the ASOS split was mentioned by David & Dan in an interview with the Daily Beast, I believe.

The AFFC/ADWD merging and splitting is only speculation for now. But I can't see them abandoning Jon, Dany, Tyrion, etc. for one whole season. So combining the storylines from AFFC/ADWD and then splitting the story in the middle chronologically to end up with two seasons makes the most sense.

Given the slower pace of AFFC and ADWD, I can see them merging the two and doing them in a season and a half. This would match up well with a speculated season and a half for ASOS, giving 3 complete season in total for books 3-5.

 

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

Given the slower pace of AFFC and ADWD, I can see them merging the two and doing them in a season and a half. This would match up well with a speculated season and a half for ASOS, giving 3 complete season in total for books 3-5.

This is what I am thinking. There's a lot of fat to be trimmed in AFFC/ADWD and I think a season and a half could be doable. Of course they could decide to add a bunch of new things (and hopefully better things) to AFFC/ADWD which could allow them to go two seasons to give Martin time.

 

[PhoenixDark]

?

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.ph...ers-the-grand-faceless-men-conspiracy-theory/

There was a far better conspiracy thread but I can't find it. I don't nessicarily believe it but it's interesting. I think it would be odd for Martin to criticize the idea of the "dark lord" in fantasy but give his own series such a generic villain as The Others. There must be something to them

 

[Azrael]

Apparently George has started work on The Winds of Winter. He thinks he can get it out before HBO catches up to him, which he estimates to be about 4 years from now. Famous last words.

Well, he estimated it would take him one year to complete A Dance With Dragons and it took six. So ~24 years for The Winds of Winter then?

 

[Puddles]

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.ph...ers-the-grand-faceless-men-conspiracy-theory/

There was a far better conspiracy thread but I can't find it. I don't nessicarily believe it but it's interesting. I think it would be odd for Martin to criticize the idea of the "dark lord" in fantasy but give his own series such a generic villain as The Others. There must be something to them

The Others are generic? Sure, the wights are zombies, but the Others themselves are fairly unique, IMO.

Of course, I don't read a ton of fantasy.

This is what I am thinking. There's a lot of fat to be trimmed in AFFC/ADWD and I think a season and a half could be doable. Of course they could decide to add a bunch of new things (and hopefully better things) to AFFC/ADWD which could allow them to go two seasons to give Martin time.

Fat to be trimmed? Hell no. We need an entire episode dedicated to pig jousting.

 

[Steelyuhas]

David & Dan (the GoT writers/showrunners) have said they will be splitting A Storm of Swords into two seasons. So I think GRRM's thinking is this:

Season 3 (ASOS pt 1) airing Spring 2013
Season 4 (ASOS pt 2) airing Spring 2014
Season 5 (AFFC/ADWD pt 1) airing Spring 2015
Season 6 (AFFC/ADWD pt 2) airing Spring 2016
So George would need to have finished Winds by early 2016, so David & Dan could get started scripting season 7. Hence, 4 years.

I'm hoping this is exactly how they break down the seasons for the show.

 

[AngryMoth]

The worrying thing for me is that I can't see how they can go for 6+ seasons without having to recast the child actors.

 

[Steelyuhas]

The worrying thing for me is that I can't see how they can go for 6+ seasons without having to recast the child actors.

They'll just age more in the show than in the books, which I don't think is a bad thing. GRRM's original plan was to have the children grow up over the course of the series (including the 5 year jump). The characters being a little older to begin with and aging more during the course of the series is actually better in my opinion.

It's possible that a couple of the younger actors get recast though (Tommen and specifically Rickon because he's going to disappear for a few seasons).

 

[IAmtheFMan]

It might be weird having an 18 year old Bran being carried around by Hodor.

 

[gutshot]

Fat to be trimmed? Hell no. We need an entire episode dedicated to pig jousting.

And turtles. Don't forget the turtles.

It might be weird having an 18 year old Bran being carried around by Hodor.

Yeah, he's already starting to sprout up. That's why I think filming seasons 3 & 4 back-to-back makes so much sense. Get the bulk of the Hodor carrying Bran scenes done while he's still a kid and not a teenager.

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

They'll just age more in the show than in the books, which I don't think is a bad thing. GRRM's original plan was to have the children grow up over the course of the series (including the 5 year jump). The characters being a little older to begin with and aging more during the course of the series is actually better in my opinion.

I agree

 

[UraMallas]

The worrying thing for me is that I can't see how they can go for 6+ seasons without having to recast the child actors.

They might just make the time between events longer? So instead of something happening a month later in the books, it happens a year later in the show?

 

[ultron87]

They might just make the time between events longer? So instead of something happening a month later in the books, it happens a year later in the show?

The problem with this is that so many events happen based on the time it takes people to travel between towns or for armies to move across the countryside.

It wouldn't make sense for (as a random example) Jaime and Brienne to hang out in the forest for months or for Bran to wander aimlessly around the North for 3 years.

 

[Binabik15]

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.ph...ers-the-grand-faceless-men-conspiracy-theory/

There was a far better conspiracy thread but I can't find it. I don't nessicarily believe it but it's interesting. I think it would be odd for Martin to criticize the idea of the "dark lord" in fantasy but give his own series such a generic villain as The Others. There must be something to them

Interesting bits, but also lots of reaching, IMO.

A lot of things contradict other theories/interpretations that are not neccesarily less surprising, but more elegant. Now Martin seems to be a sly guy, maybe I'll eat crow for this post, but an even larger conspiracy behind all conspiracies? Seems too easy.

Good thing that Martin started on Winds, I have hope that it takes less time than Dance. In part this is because I couldn't wait 5 years again like I did between reading Feast and Dance

 

[AngryMoth]

They'll just age more in the show than in the books, which I don't think is a bad thing. GRRM's original plan was to have the children grow up over the course of the series (including the 5 year jump). The characters being a little older to begin with and aging more during the course of the series is actually better in my opinion.

It's possible that a couple of the younger actors get recast though (Tommen and specifically Rickon because he's going to disappear for a few seasons).

Does he still plan on doing this? Has he said when it will occur? If so then it might just work out perfectly with the child actors. If not it would be extremely weird having a 20 year old Arya Stark by the end of the series.

 

[gutshot]

Does he still plan on doing this? Has he said when it will occur? If so then it might just work out perfectly with the child actors. If not it would be extremely weird having a 20 year old Arya Stark by the end of the series.

No, the five year gap turned into AFFC/ADWD.

 

[dead souls]

David & Dan (the GoT writers/showrunners) have said they will be splitting A Storm of Swords into two seasons. So I think GRRM's thinking is this:

Season 3 (ASOS pt 1) airing Spring 2013
Season 4 (ASOS pt 2) airing Spring 2014
Season 5 (AFFC/ADWD pt 1) airing Spring 2015
Season 6 (AFFC/ADWD pt 2) airing Spring 2016

So George would need to have finished Winds by early 2016, so David & Dan could get started scripting season 7. Hence, 4 years.

This all seems like pie in the sky wishful thinking to me. I can't believe anybody thinks HBO is going to give GOT the 8-10 seasons it will take to adapt the entire story. I just don't see it happening under any circumstances. The cost would be simply staggering, the actors will want to move on to other projects, and so on and so forth.

 

[PhoenixDark]

This all seems like pie in the sky wishful thinking to me. I can't believe anybody thinks HBO is going to give GOT the 8-10 seasons it will take to adapt the entire story. I just don't see it happening under any circumstances. The cost would be simply staggering, the actors will want to move on to other projects, and so on and so forth.

I really don't think it'll get more than four seasons.

 

[Jamesfrom818]

I really don't think it'll get more than four seasons.

Maybe I'll get my dream alternate reality. Red Wedding never happens and Robb fucks everyone up

 

[Basileus777]

Maybe I'll get my dream alternate reality. Red Wedding never happens and Robb fucks everyone up

Nah, they've already talked about how excited they are to show the Red Wedding. We'll get an altered ASOS ending with Cersei happily ruling over the 7 Kingdoms.

 

[fallengorn]

Maybe I'll get my dream alternate reality and Robb fucks everyone up

That would be interesting, giving readers some wish fulfillment, but would deprive readers of non-readers reactions of you-know-what.

 

[dead souls]

I really don't think it'll get more than four seasons.

That's what I think too. Four seasons to cover the first three books unless it becomes a hit on a level that makes True Blood look like The Firm.

 

[Jamesfrom818]

Nah, they've already talked about how excited they are to show the Red Wedding. We'll get an altered ASOS ending with Cersei happily ruling over the 7 Kingdoms.

Cutting the Red Wedding seems to be the only satisfying way to end the show if it is cut short and doesn't cover all of the books though. I guess Dany coming over with the Golden Company and her Unsullied could bring about another possible ending but that does nothing to avenge the losses sustained by the Starks.

Then again, having the Starks or Lannisters kick ass in Westoros doesn't do anything for Dany's story. Dany ruling Mereen and Slaver's Bay can't be her endgame.

 

[PhoenixDark]

Plus it only will get more expensive, the kids will age, actors will become more popular/demand bigger contracts, dragons...

Oh and a lot of people's favorite characters will either die or be neglected. I really think the RW could be a disaster lol, especially as the next seasons won't come close to being as interesting without major changes

 

[fallengorn]

That seems to be the only satisfying way to end the show if it is cut short and doesn't cover all of the books though. I guess Dany coming over with the Golden Company and her Unsullied could bring about another possible ending but that does nothing to avenge the losses sustained by the Starks.

Jon replaces Robb and marches with Dany to restore the throne to the Targaryens. They then swing up north to defeat the Others. The ending scene will be Jon and Dany's marriage. The ghosts of Ned, Lyanna, and Rhaegar watch on as Yub Nub plays.

 

[Jamesfrom818]

Jon replaces Robb and marches with Dany to restore the throne to the Targaryens. They then swing up north to defeat the Others. The ending scene will be Jon and Dany's marriage. The ghosts of Ned, Lyanna, and Rhaegar watch on as Yub Nub plays.

How does Jon met Dany and why would she trust him? He's still the son of a traitor in her eyes. The only person who knows Jon's true identity is dead.

After some more thought, this is how I'd set it up if its cut short.

The Blackfish will reach Jon before he is made Lord Commander and tells him that he was declared Robb's heir. Jon rallies the mountain clans to his cause and goes up against the Boltons. Melisandre convinces Stannis that his foe is beyond the wall so he marches whats left of his host to fight the Others. So pretty much reverse the roles of Jon and Stannis.

Quentyn/Victarion and Dany get hitched and land in Dorne with dragons, Unsullied and the Golden Company (Tyrion, too). This combined force marches out of Dorne and runs into the might of Highgarden, The Vale and whatever is left of Casterly Rock.

Through a wolf dream, Arya learns that Sansa is travelling south with Littlefinger and men of the Vale and leaves Braavos to rescue her. Sansa as mini Cersei and Arya with Faceless Men training go around exacting revenge on everyone in Arya's prayer. I guess Brienne could join them as well.

Now I think I've put too much thought into this.

 

[Chris R]

The only person who knows Jon's true identity is dead.

Not true. Don't Jojen/Meera and Howland know the truth (whatever that truth is)?

 

[gutshot]

That's what I think too. Four seasons to cover the first three books unless it becomes a hit on a level that makes True Blood look like The Firm.

It's already on its way. I suspect it will be nearing True Blood viewer numbers by the end of season two and will become HBO's most watched show in season three.

 

[Analytical]

I really hope that Lady Stoneheart gets put out of her misery in the next book so Brothers Without Banners can go back to protecting people and not being heartless Frey killing machines.

Not true. Don't Jojen/Meera and Howland know the truth (whatever that truth is)?

It's possible that Howland knows the truth. He was the only man to survive with Eddard at the Tower of Joy. It all depends on what the promise Ned made to Lyanna was.

 

[Puddles]

You guys are overthinking this. There's plenty that can sustain viewer interest after the Red Wedding.

 

[Jamesfrom818]

You guys are overthinking this. There's plenty that can sustain viewer interest after the Red Wedding.

It took me two weeks to get over my disgust before I could finally get back to ASOS. Robb didn't get his own chapters but he will be getting more screen time on the show. People will get attached. People will be pissed.

 

[Steelyuhas]

It took me two weeks to get over my disgust before I could finally get back to ASOS. Robb didn't get his own chapters but he will be getting more screen time on the show. People will get attached. People will be pissed.

Yeah they will be, but people were pissed about Ned, and the next episode had the highest viewership of the season, and based on the views of the season 2 trailer, the viewership looks like its going to go up for season 2.

One of the things I think they NEED to do though (assuming that ASOS is 2 full seasons, or close to it), is save the red wedding for season 4. The last third of ASOS, starting with the red wedding, are very much one big rolling conclusion to many of the character arch's and plot lines over the first three books. I feel that all of those events should take place in season 4. That is also safer for keeping viewership, as it will happen in the middle of the season and there is Joffrey's and Tywin's deaths, and Sansa's escape from Kings landing coming up to ease the pain of the Red Wedding. Then with AFFC and ADWD happening chronologically in the show, we should get Davos at White Harbor sometime in the next season to remind us that the north remembers, which for me was enough to get my excitement way up there for the rest of the series.

 

[Jibbajabbawockky]

One of the things I think they NEED to do though (assuming that ASOS is 2 full seasons, or close to it), is save the red wedding for season 4. The last third of ASOS, starting with the red wedding, are very much one big rolling conclusion to many of the character arch's and plot lines over the first three books. I feel that all of those events should take place in season 4. That is also safer for keeping viewership, as it will happen in the middle of the season and there is Joffrey's and Tywin's deaths, and Sansa's escape from Kings landing coming up to ease the pain of the Red Wedding. Then with AFFC and ADWD happening chronologically in the show, we should get Davos at White Harbor sometime in the next season to remind us that the north remembers, which for me was enough to get my excitement way up there for the rest of the series.

It will be very interesting in general to see how they translate A Storm of Swords into the TV series. There are just so many BIG events that happen in that book, and, like you said, a lot happens in the last third or so.

Off the top of my head,the last third of A Storm of Swords , from about the Red Wedding on covers:
- The Red Wedding and everything surrounding that (presumably that means they have to introduce the Tully's sooner or later)
- Joffrey and Margaery getting married
- Joffrey getting iced
- Sansa escaping and then making her way up to the Eyrie leading to Lysa getting iced
- The Wildling Battle at the Wall
- Bran and company meeting Sam and going beyond the Wall with Coldhands
- Dany setting up shop in Mereen
- Jaime coming back to King's Landing
- Tyrion on trial, the Red Viper vs. The Mountain
- Stannis showing up to save the day at the Wall
- Arya and Sandor going around, with Arya leaving eventually
- Tyrion icing Tywin and Shae
- Jon becoming Commander of the Night's Watch
- Introducing Lady Stoneheart


That's a lot of stuff to cover after the Red Wedding. The events at the Wall alone will presumably require a ton of work. The problem with the show would likely be the slower pace of things after ASoS, once they get back to more Dorne and more new characters. Compared to the first 3 books, AFfC and ADwD feel a lot like setup where not a ton of stuff happens.

 

[Wray]

I think they'll end Season 3 with the Red Wedding because you really need something major to end S3 with. You could do Red Wedding in Ep9 and then kill Joffrey in Ep10 to end the season, but I think this works better...

Season 3

- Reek betrays Theon, reveals himself as Ramsay and sacks Winterfell.
- Ygritte dies after the initial skirmish at the Wall.
- Dany frees the Unsullied and takes Astapor.
- Red Wedding happens and the internet ignites into rage.

Those events happen in the last 1-2 episodes of S3.


First Half of Season 4

- Joffrey dies early into S4. Possibly even as a surprise ending to the first episode.
- The main part of the Battle at the Wall happens. Ending of course with Stannis arriving.

The last thing is important because if S3 and 4 are filmed together, it gives HBO a whole extra year to do all the CGI for the battle. Which we know will require alot of CGI. Especially if they include all the crazy shit like the Giants and Mammoths.


Second Half of Season 4

- Red Viper vs Mountain.
- Euron winning the Kingsmoot.
- Dany becomes Queen of Meereen.
- Tyrion vs Tywin.
- Lysa taking a plunge.
- Jon becoming the 998th Lord Commander.
- Undead Cat getting unveiled.

I can see Mountain vs Red Viper duel happening somewhere in the Ep6-8 range. Then Tyrion killing Tywin to end Ep9. Then Lysa dying in Ep10 with the final scene being Cat revealed to be not dead, well sorta.

 

[sharbhund]

I think they'll end Season 3 with the Red Wedding because you really need something major to end S3 with. You could do Red Wedding in Ep9 and then kill Joffrey in Ep10 to end the season, but I think this works better...

Season 3

- Reek betrays Theon, reveals himself as Ramsay and sacks Winterfell.
- Ygritte dies after the initial skirmish at the Wall.
- Dany frees the Unsullied and takes Astapor.
- Red Wedding happens and the internet ignites into rage.

Those events happen in the last 1-2 episodes of S3.


First Half of Season 4

- Joffrey dies early into S4. Possibly even as a surprise ending to the first episode.
- The main part of the Battle at the Wall happens. Ending of course with Stannis arriving.

The last thing is important because if S3 and 4 are filmed together, it gives HBO a whole extra year to do all the CGI for the battle. Which we know will require alot of CGI. Especially if they include all the crazy shit like the Giants and Mammoths.

I agree with this, but I think it might be better to have Season 3 end with the Robb/Cat POV of the Red Wedding, and have S4 start with the Arya/Hound POV of the RW. That could tie the two seasons together without any awkward cuts between the two scenes.

 

[Cornballer]

Heh. Saw it here via Westeros.org.

 

[Wray]

I agree with this, but I think it might be better to have Season 3 end with the Robb/Cat POV of the Red Wedding, and have S4 start with the Arya/Hound POV of the RW. That could tie the two seasons together without any awkward cuts between the two scenes.

That would work well. I also think they could change it up a little and have the Hound actually capture her there. That could be a good way to her end S3 arc.

 

[AlimNassor]

The internets rage when they see the red wedding. Oh man.

 

[28 Posts Later]

The internets rage when they see the red wedding. Oh man.

I wonder how many people will have seen the show and then gone on to read the books. Ned's death was obviously met with a large degree of anger, but are the majority passionate enough about the show to rage about a characters death not going to have read about the Red Wedding by the time it finally airs?

I guess it also depends how they handle Robs character development. In the books we obviously saw little of him directly, but to me that made him a more interesting character. He reached almost mythical status simply because he was constantly spoke of with respect by other characters. If this aura is lost because the viewer is able to witness his flaws first hand it might damage the emotional impact the scene offers.