Dreams-Visions
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Junkie.
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Dota 2 Beta Thread: [Brewmaster]
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Junkie.
I've had Rhythm Heaven Fever to pass the time for now.
Schweinehund
Member
Can't wait for sylla. Love his and shadow demon's concept armor.
Not a big fan of lycan's human form. I expected him to look more handsome/baronesque. Maybe his ingame model will look better to me.
Not a big fan of lycan's human form. I expected him to look more handsome/baronesque. Maybe his ingame model will look better to me.
Blast Processing
Member
aww, no Dota 2 tonight?
So I decided to look into this a bit:
- They both have the same starting damage, Armor, Movement Speed, and starting stats. Lycan has a slightly higher attack range then War Beat though, completely negligible cause it's only 3
-The wolves are the same, same mana cost, cool down, duration, and effects. War Beasts wolves though can't attack towers unless War Beast is close to them though, not sure if Lycan has the same condition. Not sure on the armor value for the wolves, in HoN they have both zero magic and physical armor, making them quite squishy.
- The Damage buff is stronger on Lycan, adds 50 / 16 damage to Players / Player Controlled Units, compared to War Beasts 44 / 16, but the duration on War Beast is longer by 4 seconds
- Lycan's passive gives him a % based attack speed increase, War Beast only gains a set amount of speed, and it's less then Lycan, 30 / 30 versus 25 / 25
- War Beasts ultimate gives him Unit walking, a faster BAT of 1.4 compared to Lycan's 1.5, but Lycan has 1800 sight range (wtf), and Lycan's crit is better 1.7x compared to War Beasts 1.5x
So they are ( although a little bit of a reach ) the same hero, the 1800 sight range on Lycan is pretty significant though, same as Night Stalker although his is unobstructed. I think in the case of War Beast just has less to do with the hero and more to do with the faster paced Meta of HoN and the far less popularity of push strategies in the game, as well as more popular heroes for that ( Zephyr, Master of Arms, Amun-Ra, Balphagore, Electrician, Midas, Keeper of the Forest ). I could only find one replay on Youtube of a War Beast push strategy, and it's from almost 2 years ago.
Other then that, the weaknesses of the hero are the same in both versions, low lane presence, no escape mechanism till 6, mana issues, and counter able by wards early game, also he offers nothing outside of auto attack damage and to excel at that, at least in HoN he requires Puzzlebox 3 and Shrunken Head.
That being said, I don't understand why he's so popular in DOTA, given that a Beastmaster can make it pretty difficult for him to excel in a teamfight because of Primal Roar, I figure there'd be better picks then him, especially considering how many heroes fall into the batshit ridiculous tier in Dota. Maybe Milk can explain
Shining the Milkman Alert!
Kinda. I'm actually somewhat burnt out on Dota and have been playing LoL recently.
Heresy!
archie is tired from all those milkman stomps
yes the time for am to be dethroned as the first ban carry
counters am
insane chasing power
easy rosh
easy farm/can farm relatively fast
tower pushes like a boss
tanks like a fatty
eats alot of heroes for lunch
did i miss anything?
counters am
insane chasing power
easy rosh
easy farm/can farm relatively fast
tower pushes like a boss
tanks like a fatty
eats alot of heroes for lunch
did i miss anything?
Wolves can easily farm forest while he farms lane
Basically counters any late game hard carry (AM, Void, Spectre, Morphling) by outpushing them and eating the jungle
How much faster paced is the meta in HoN compared to Dota 2?
He does all those things in HoN but isn't picked up much, not sure about the counter AM part other then being viable in a push strategy, and if that's the case it would make more sense to say that Push Strategies counter late game teams, which goes without saying.
What makes it so easy to farm with him, wouldn't jungle wards counter him? Even more so in Dota then HoN because of the way warding to prevent spawns works, also he has ridiculously low lane presence because he has nothing to contribute. A lot of the reasons you listed apply to a hero like Ursa as well, but I don't see him picked up much either, particularly Easy Rosh, Kills supports easy, ability to tank, and countering AM.
Don't see what makes Lycan particularly more Viable then any of the other Early game carries.
I remember watching that replay and thinking to myself, that it took you guys really long to get to the base considering the heroes, but such a fun match.
I haven't played the game in a while, or watched a competitive match in months, but S2 added lots of items that encourage early game battles, Chalice ( Equivalent of Soul Ring ), Striders ( Boots that provide much faster early game mobility ), S2 Early game carries, the way assist gold works among other things.
This explains it pretty well, a good read, if you can stand the fucken awful white on black of the HoN forums.
http://www.joindota.com/en/news/2526-erik-johnson-confirms-lan-mode-for-dota2
Not anything worth getting excited over really, thought it was obvious that LAN was only missing due to them wanting to have control over the beta.
Not anything worth getting excited over really, thought it was obvious that LAN was only missing due to them wanting to have control over the beta.
Hmm that didn't really answer the question, I just wanted to know how much faster time (20 minutes, 10 minutes) do the matches end in HoN compared to Dota
Maybe the gaffers from HoN can answer?Uh not sure I could give you a rounded off number, but if you compared the public matches, it's a rarity for a match to go longer then 35 minutes, but that has a lot to do with the Concede feature.Hmm that didn't really answer the question, I just wanted to know how much faster time (20 minutes, 10 minutes) do the matches end in HoN compared to Dota
Yeah, that is non news. Can you imagine a game pining itself as an esport not having LAN?
Valve does what Blizzardon't?
Fighting games don't have a LAN mode.
MARVEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEL
starcraft 2
The_Player
Member
Starcraft 2 says Sup Homies.
That's the joke.jpg
what the fuck am i reading?
Honestly brized (emperor) has been playing him a lot lately, the hero was never 'bad' its just that typically only really really shitty players would pick him. With farm he was as scary as any other carry (according to loki_demi, the best carry, but hes pinoy garb so who cares). With bulwark/shieldbreaker in the state that they are, warbeast isnt that bad at all -- he just doesn't fit the whole TANKS N HEALS thing thats sort-of going on right now.
Oh and DWi would run warbeast when extreme push strats were out of control (temp/tort/tree/polly/warbeast -- teams like that) and would have him 1v2 or 1v1 the safe lane and just spam his damage skill. That wasnt too long ago, either
my average games lengths on my accounts areHmm that didn't really answer the question, I just wanted to know how much faster time (20 minutes, 10 minutes) do the matches end in HoN compared to Dota
30m 18s
34m 0s [my oldest account, with the most games from way back when]
24m 28s
30m 41s
LYCAN IS OP BECUZ LYCAN IS KILJAEDN AND KILJAEDN AND ILLIDUN WAS BEST FRIENDS AND THEN ILLIDUN WAS LIKE KILJAEDN DO YOU LUV ME 4EVER ? BUT KILJAEDN WUZ LIKE NO AND ILLIDUN RUN INTO FROCEN SRONE AND DIE TO ARTHAS AND KILJAEDN HOLD ILLIDUN CORPSE AND HE SAY: "NO, I MENT TO SAY I LUV U 5EVER!" LIKE DIS IF YOU CRY EVRY TIME.
? BUT KILJAEDN WUZ LIKE NO AND ILLIDUN RUN INTO FROCEN SRONE AND DIE TO ARTHAS AND KILJAEDN HOLD ILLIDUN CORPSE AND HE SAY: "NO, I MENT TO SAY I LUV U 5EVER!" LIKE DIS IF YOU CRY EVRY TIME.I don't know what the deal is with DWi/tarano but brized is currently tagged [fray] (which is slickz's team) but i think hes also been playing with some of the tdm players, so iunno. He plays a shit ton of warbeast tho, guess its the new electrician
Stahsky
A passionate embrace, a beautiful memory lingers.
How does that confirm it exactly? What about all the other millions of games you had to buy before that had LAN support?
Looking at the premier league, match lengths appear to be close to 30-40 minutes, 40+ minute games are much rarer, fast games are more typical than long farm fests in competitive play.
Games like wc3 are just pirated at gaming cafes. If they are targeting Asia with lan, it has to be free or its an unprofitable environment
Yeah so why did Sebulon3k say that the meta in HoN is faster than Dota 2? Imma try and see how the match times are like in HoN.
And I think the reason why Lycan is used so much in competitive Dota is because of Medallion. That item is just made for him, insane jungling.
zombieshavebrains
I have not used cocaine
Yeah it almost confirms the opposite. Valve has been licensing their games to internet cafes (like china) forever. Why would they give their game away for free? How does one make money off a free game that never needs to be connected to the internet to buy hats?
I think the point was that by having LAN and it being B2P it will be pirated just to play offline. What reason would there be to pirate/only use it offline when it's F2P and offers great community/networking features?
Couple reasons why Lycan rocks and Warbeast socks. Please keep in mind I'm not a HoN player so this is just going off the wiki and some of my knowledge of the heroes:
1. Jungle behavior (IIRC). As far as I know, corpses block jungle spawns in Heroes of Newerth. This dramatically reduces Warbeast's farming speed in comparison to Lycan.
2. Apparently "Catmen" and "Minotaurs" in HoN have reduced casting speed on their skills (can someone confirm?). In Dota, you can force the jungle creeps to blow their spells but still dodge it. In HoN, you have to eat the spell, wasting HP and mana.
3. I believe Roshan is easier than Kongor, especially with the introduction of Medallion.
4. Lycan does NOT have weak lane presence. This is a big one. His wolves are 100x the wolves of Warbeast. They both move faster without ulti (400ms hon wolves versus 460ms dota wolves) and attack faster (1.25 bat hon wolves versus 1.1 bat dota wolves). His wolves can easily chase down and kill other solos and supports at level 7 while Lycan happily farms his lane or his jungle. The wolves are ridiculous. I have solo'd against Windrunners with Lycan and his wolves completely rape her to the point that she has to leave the lane.
5. General hero pool. I think HoN has more heroes that can deal with Lycan's bullshit.
Anyone want to throw out any corrections please feel free to do so.
1. Jungle behavior (IIRC). As far as I know, corpses block jungle spawns in Heroes of Newerth. This dramatically reduces Warbeast's farming speed in comparison to Lycan.
2. Apparently "Catmen" and "Minotaurs" in HoN have reduced casting speed on their skills (can someone confirm?). In Dota, you can force the jungle creeps to blow their spells but still dodge it. In HoN, you have to eat the spell, wasting HP and mana.
3. I believe Roshan is easier than Kongor, especially with the introduction of Medallion.
4. Lycan does NOT have weak lane presence. This is a big one. His wolves are 100x the wolves of Warbeast. They both move faster without ulti (400ms hon wolves versus 460ms dota wolves) and attack faster (1.25 bat hon wolves versus 1.1 bat dota wolves). His wolves can easily chase down and kill other solos and supports at level 7 while Lycan happily farms his lane or his jungle. The wolves are ridiculous. I have solo'd against Windrunners with Lycan and his wolves completely rape her to the point that she has to leave the lane.
5. General hero pool. I think HoN has more heroes that can deal with Lycan's bullshit.
Anyone want to throw out any corrections please feel free to do so.
iirc fade time is alot shorter on lycan wolves too, its a fucking 3 second fade on warbeast. There's a leash on tower hitting with wolves, none on Lycan's wolves.
Feral Impulse is 5% better, for both IAS and Dmg, but in Hon it's still global, which is mitigated by his leash which makes it stupid.
Lycan ulti has a better crit, however his BAT is .1 higher in DotA.
My conclusion? LYCAN IS ILLIDAN BEZT FREND
The_Player
Member
Boyar Lycan
A little bit of Winged Doom won't hurt this Shadow Demon
A little bit of Winged Doom won't hurt this Shadow Demon
the chinese meta game in dota 1 is very farm heavy though, which is basically 90% of the dota 1 games still played, maybe he was thinking of those games.
Togglesworlh
Banned
Don't do that to yourself. Game's awful.
Gave up on it and went back to Quake for now.
This is false
Now I don't know what to think :x
If I can bind my camera to wasd then I'll get back to it.
Well it's also nice to go to different games. I tried to play LoL but their installer is utterless crap with Pando Media, so I gave up on that.
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