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[LiK]

That sounds like a no to me.

I suppose we'll see in a couple months.

Also back to the dealing directly with consumers crap. We deal so directly you have to buy bioware points!

unless they decide to say "It won't be on Steam" like they did with BF3, there's still hope. but yea, if you want it day one, Origin for now.

 

[Dog Problems]

Or rather get it dirt cheap on amazon. They have the best deals for all games. Steam, or origins.

Oh, true. I always forget about them unless I see it mentioned on here.

 

[Slackbladder]

Choice is such a wonderful thing. It can make people happy. Except with Bioware they are either lazy, perverse or arrogant (possibly all three). They obviously have no interest in making their customers happy and are simply after your money. Unfortunately most of us "customers" or "fans" or whatever are mugs and keep buying their stuff. Your only recourse to this attitude of Bioware is to refuse to buy their products. But, I'm afraid not enough will do so to make them give us the choice of kb/m or controller.

 

[Reallink]

How do you figure? You're just spewing nonsense and not offering any evidence on how it's actually inferior. I generally prefer WASD + mouse to gamepads, but it really depends on the game.

In what way is KB movement control for a TPS and/or FPS inferior? Just from curiosity can you do ->this<- with a pad?

A) It's limited to digital as opposed to analog range of motion. B) It's limited to 8-way as opposed to 16-way, 32-way, and everything in between. C) For most people, it's less user friendly, more unnatural, and less ergonomically friendly than simple a simple thumb stick. D) Yes someone who had played Quake to death with a thumb pad would be able to do that. E) Modern games are designed around analog movement, with stealth segments, cover crawling/sneaking, etc... F) Why am I having to explain the advantages of an analog stick for movement in a 3D space in the year 2012?

 

[Nabs]

Are you forgetting the mouse, or what?

 

[jim-jam bongs]

F) Why am I having to explain the advantages of an analog stick for movement in a 3D space in the year 2012?

Because it's widely believed that the combination of digital and analog provides a good balance between precision and freedom. There might even be a bit of truth to it.

 

[Zeliard]

A) It's limited to digital as opposed to analog range of motion. B) It's limited to 8-way as opposed to 16-way, 32-way, and everything in between. C) For most people, it's less user friendly, more unnatural, and less ergonomically friendly than simple a simple thumb stick. D) Yes someone who had played Quake to death with a thumb pad would be able to do that. E) Modern games are designed around analog movement, with stealth segments, cover crawling/sneaking, etc... F) Why am I having to explain the advantages of an analog stick for movement in a 3D space in the year 2012?

You realize that with the keyboard, there's a mouse, right? This isn't 1996 where people are playing Quake with a keyboard only.

 

[Derrick01]

That sounds like a no to me.

I suppose we'll see in a couple months.

Also back to the dealing directly with consumers crap. We deal so directly you have to buy bioware points!

That's the typical response EA and their people have been saying since they started this shit. So yeah, it's not happening.

But even if it did Galaxy at War uses Origin as its servers so even if it ends up on Steam you'll have to use Origin like a GFWL game. So what's the point of having it on Steam if you're avoiding the game because of Origin?

 

[Deleted member 17706]

A) It's limited to digital as opposed to analog range of motion. B) It's limited to 8-way as opposed to 16-way, 32-way, and everything in between. C) For most people, it's less user friendly, more unnatural, and less ergonomically friendly than simple a simple thumb stick. D) Yes someone who had played Quake to death with a thumb pad would be able to do that. E) Modern games are designed around analog movement, with stealth segments, cover crawling/sneaking, etc... F) Why am I having to explain the advantages of an analog stick for movement in a 3D space in the year 2012?

Like I said, it depends on the game. There are inherent advantages and disadvantages to both, in my opinion. Ergonomically friendly is subjective, really.

Also, digital movement is not always a bad thing, especially when you're looking for more precision in movement. Another distinct advantage that WASD has is speed. You simply can't flick a thumb stick from one direction to the opposite direction as quickly as you can when you have multiple fingers ready to slam the necessary WASD keys.

 

[Reallink]

If you are referring about the analog stick/button support maybe but if the game requires aiming then the mouse is the most important part of the Kb/mouse set up (IMO) and so I will gladly take the KB. I mainly play FPS and hate the pad for aiming. That being said I completely believe in choice and as long as it doesn&#8217;t affect the PC gameplay they should support it.

Are you forgetting the mouse, or what?

You realize that with the keyboard, there's a mouse, right? This isn't 1996 where people are playing Quake with a keyboard only.

Yes I'm referring to KB and only KB. KB and mouse are not mutually exclusive, you can have one without the other. I'm not going to argue against the merits of a mouse cause it's obviously superior to a stick for aiming. The KB is a relic that has persisted because everyone has one, they've always used it, and the PC space is too fragmented to widely adopt some kind of nunchuck style dongle for universal movement support.

 

[Vane_MagicCity]

Why are people arguing about which control scheme is better? It's all about preference. Even if people agree that mouse and keyboard are technically superior it doesn't mean anything since those same people may still prefer to use the controller. I am one of those people actually.

Arguing which is better isn't really the point, the point is that PC gamers should have an option and Bioware is too stubborn to see that (or care). Luckily, most other developers do see that and it's making Bioware look worse.

 

[jim-jam bongs]

Yes I'm referring to KB and only KB. I'm not going to argue against the merits of a mouse cause it's obviously superior to a stick for aiming. The KB is a relic that has persisted because everyone has one, they've always used it, and the PC space is too fragmented to widely adopt some kind of nunchuck style dongle for universal movement support.

The mouse doesn't just aim, it also controls direction. It's part of the movement controls, and exactly the reason nobody except a handful of people wants a nunchuk.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Yes I'm referring to KB and only KB. KB and mouse are not mutually exclusive, you can have one without the other. I'm not going to argue against the merits of a mouse cause it's obviously superior to a stick for aiming. The KB is a relic that has persisted because everyone has one, they've always used it, and the PC space is too fragmented to widely adopt some kind of nunchuck style dongle for universal movement support.

A relic? You're insane...

I like analog sticks just fine, but you're completely disregarding all of the keys that are available at your finger tips with a keyboard, as well as situations where digital controls are preferable to analog.

Replacing it with a nunchuck would add very little benefit and take away a ton of control options.

 

[shinobi602]

You know, I was thinking of picking this up down the line but that's pretty much the final nail in the coffin.

Did you play the previous 2 on PC?

 

[Zeliard]

Yes I'm referring to KB and only KB. I'm not going to argue against the merits of a mouse cause it's obviously superior to a stick for aiming. The KB is a relic that has persisted because everyone has one, they've always used it, and the PC space is too fragmented to widely adopt some kind of nunchuck style dongle for universal movement support.

Digital can in fact be a big positive, as with a game like Quake you want something closer to instantaneous response to your movements. You're not just using the keyboard by itself; that would carry obvious disadvantages. I'm not sure what the point of arguing for keyboard-only is; people argue for kb/m because the mouse is important. But regardless, the primary reason the keyboard is such a great gaming tool is because of the large amount of buttons, and many of them quickly accessed, allowing for more depth and complexity in various games and genres.

 

[Reallink]

The mouse doesn't just aim, it also controls direction. It's part of the movement controls, and exactly the reason nobody except a handful of people wants a nunchuk.

How does replacing WASD with an analog stick have any bearing on the mouse controlling the direction?

 

[Deleted member 17706]

How does replacing WASD with an analog stick have any bearing on the mouse controlling the direction?

Because choosing the direction is the part where a wide range of analog control is important. If all you're doing with the analog stick is inputting whether to go back or forward (or left and right), as is the case in most FPS/TPS games, then the keyboard does a better job since the response is instantaneous, rather than something that you need to ramp up to.

 

[Cuban Legend]

Have any Bioware games had controller support on the PC?

ME1 didn't
ME2 didn't
DA:O didn't
DA2 didn't
SWTOR doesn't
ME3 doesn't

Yeah, it would be nice if it had controller support, but it's not a deal breaker for me.

BINGO.

If the series didn't support it in the past, complaining about it now like it's some sort of 'surprise' is childish.

Besides, IMO: who the hell plays the PC Mass Effect series with a controller? I played the 360 version once and I fucking hated the cheap, circular console-esque "pause-menu" HUD style. (and I am a 360 owner fyi)

 

[Deleted member 17706]

BINGO.

If the series didn't support it in the past, complaining about it now like it's some sort of 'surprise' is childish.

Besides, IMO: who the hell plays the PC Mass Effect series with a controller? I played the 360 version once and I fucking hated the cheap console-esque pause menu style. (and I am a 360 owner fyi)

1. Your tastes cannot be applied to everyone.

2. Expectations change as time goes by and standards evolve.

The bigger question is why wouldn't they implement an option for 360 pad controls. "We didn't offer it in the past." is not a good reason.

 

[Snuggles]

BINGO.

If the series didn't support it in the past, complaining about it now like it's some sort of 'surprise' is childish.

Besides, IMO: who the hell plays the PC Mass Effect series with a controller? I played the 360 version once and I fucking hated the cheap console-esque pause menu style. (and I am a 360 owner fyi)

Jesus, this thread is unbelievable. I don't really think that anyone is "surprised" by this, and whether or not they are is irrelevant. The point is that it's a feature that was sorely lacking from the first two games, and there's really no valid excuse for it's absence at this point. It's baffling that people actually defend this stuff.

 

[Woo-Fu]

I typically prefer m/k for my games but I have no problem whatsoever admitting that an analog stick shits all over m/k for variable speed movement in a 3rd person shooter.

I'm firmly in the camp that believes that the lack of controller support in this game is due to non-technical reasons.

 

[Vane_MagicCity]

BINGO.

If the series didn't support it in the past, complaining about it now like it's some sort of 'surprise' is childish.

Besides, IMO: who the hell plays the PC Mass Effect series with a controller? I played the 360 version once and I fucking hated the cheap, circular console-esque "pause-menu" HUD style. (and I am a 360 owner fyi)

The first two games didn't have multiplayer support either. Things change and so should this have changed.

 

[jim-jam bongs]

Did you play the previous 2 on PC?

Yes I did.

How does replacing WASD with an analog stick have any bearing on the mouse controlling the direction?

It doesn't, it's just that the post I was quoting attempted to narrow the goalposts by making this just about the keyboard when you actually need to consider them together. It would be like saying controllers suck but then only being willing to discuss the left half of one.

 

[Reallink]

Because choosing the direction is the part where a wide range of analog control is important. If all you're doing with the analog stick is inputting whether to go back or forward (or left and right), as is the case in most FPS/TPS games, then the keyboard does a better job since the response is instantaneous, rather than something that you need to ramp up to.

This seems akin to saying that consoles should go back to using d-pads because all you're doing is inputting forward, back, left, and right.

 

[kruis]

DA:O doesn't because it is supposed to be played like an older iso-RPG that contains tons of menus cascading everywhere. Not sure about DA2.

SWTOR is an MMO in the vein of EQ/WoW - plenty of keys needed.

You could argue that during ME1, no one really cared about using a controller on a PC port. Same goes for ME2; didn't hear much complaints at the time but I think gamepad use on PC really went up sometime in mid-2010 (or at least amongst GAFers). So yes it is weird ME3 doesn't have it but I'm not to broken up over it.

It's enough of a biggie for me not to buy the PC version. I'm one of those "comfy couch" PC gamers who want to play games sitting in front of the HDTV with a controller in my hand. Without controller support I'd rather play the PS3 version - after a price cut. I'm not in a hury because I've yet to start ME2.

 

[Teknoman]

In a world where The Witcher 2 has 360 gamepad controller support, you would think a series that had its inception on the 360 would support the controller as well.

 

[butts]

Do the 2 versions have a separate UI? That could be the reason. Maybe they didn't see the value of porting a separate UI to the PC in the cases where somebody is using a controller.

 

[bigboss370]

this means i cannot play with teh superior graphix on pc unless someone comes up with a mod somehow.

 

[shinobi602]

Yes I did.

Why does the no controller support bother you so much? Were the KBM controls that bad?

 

[chickdigger802]

Doesn't Deus ex hr have both?

Probably the closest game to compare.

360 controller has the radial thing. Pc has traditional hotbar.

 

[Cuban Legend]

1. Your tastes cannot be applied to everyone.

2. Expectations change as time goes by and standards evolve.

The bigger question is why wouldn't they implement an option for 360 pad controls. "We didn't offer it in the past." is not a good reason.

1. My tastes have nothing to do with the way the game feels*. IF you want to play the PC version with 360pad then there are plenty of mapping programs to allow you to do so, I use xPadder to play BFBF2 with my 360pad. But why would you want the full support of including the pause menu HUD style when the PC version was clearly built with a different HUD by the developers on purpose?

* I said the pause-menu HUD looked like the usual "lets map way-too-many options onto a controller" that console-ised RTSes are famous for.

2.Why would expectations change when history clearly hasn't and has in fact repeated itself with regards to the series skipping over 360pad support on PC?

If "expectations" change while "reality" hasn't, then isn't this called "stupidity" on the part of those expecting a change?

-PS. If it's because of the addition of multiplayer this time around, then i understand the "convenience" it would have for some PC players it if did have 360 pad support. But since it doesn't then at most this whole thing is an "inconvenience", which is far from "inexcusable".

 

[Deleted member 17706]

This seems akin to saying that consoles should go back to using d-pads because all you're doing is inputting forward, back, left, and right.

Console controllers still come with d-pads last I checked.

And how is it akin to saying that? I was very specific in my statement. Analog works better for some games, digital works better for others. There's no objectively superior option, no matter how much you want there to be one.

For example, I'm playing Kingdoms of Amalur right now on my PC, and I find the character movement quite a bit better when using the 360 pad--same goes for when I was playing Arkham City. Note that in both of those games, the left analog stick is used to determine in which direction your character moves.

However, I also recently played Skyrim, and I found mouse/keyboard to be vastly superior in the game. The left analog stick was simply used as a stop/go mechanism there.

 

[j0hnny_385]

so I asked Manveer Heir (from Bioware) about this on Twitter, here's what he said (bottom->up):

That game...with that kind of budget... dunno, seems weird. :/

 

[jim-jam bongs]

Why does the no controller support bother you so much? Were the KBM controls that bad?

Because situations change. When I played Mass Effect 1 and 2 my PC was hooked up to a monitor ran a standard Windows front-end, and I used KB/M. Now it's permanently hooked up to my TV and I use XBMC as a front-end, controlled with a wireless 360 controller. I don't even have a keyboard and mouse hooked up to my gaming PC 95% of the time.

Could I use XPadder? Well yeah, that's what I bought it for. But I'd rather just skip this honestly, I have so many other games I can play which actually do support multiple input options so I'll give their developers my business instead.

Doesn't Deus ex hr have both?

Probably the closest game to compare.

360 controller has the radial thing. Pc has traditional hotbar.

Deus Ex dynamically swaps between KB/M and 360 controller when it detects input from either, so does Saints Row: The Third and a number of other games I've played in the past year.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

1. My tastes have nothing to do with the way the game feels*. IF you want to play the PC version with 360pad then there are plenty of mapping programs to allow you to do so and that is fine by me. But why you would want the full support of including the pause menu HUD style when the PC version was built with a different HUD on purpose is beyond me, though.

* I said the pause-menu HUD looked like the usual "lets map way-too-many options onto a controller" that console-ised RTSes are famous for.

Mapping programs do not equal native support. They are often annoying to configure and require you to remember to which button you mapped which key. Not an elegant solution. HUDs and interface elements can change dynamically when an input method is detected. Check out Kingdoms of Amalur or the Batman games for good examples. Hell, even a toggle option in the options menu would be acceptable. They already made both a 360 interface and a KB/M-focused interface. Why not give the player the option to choose which one they want to use on the PC? That's ever becoming the standard for console ports on the PC in 2012, and there's no reason we shouldn't expect it from one of the biggest releases of the year.

2.Why would expectations change when history clearly hasn't and has in fact repeated itself with regards to the series skipping over 360pad support on PC?

If "expectations" change while "reality" hasn't, then isn't this called "stupidity" on the part of those expecting a change?

Mass Effect 3 does not exist in a vacuum. Just because previous titles left out the option, doesn't mean it should be acceptable today. Again, this isn't about people being surprised. If you look at Bioware and their shittiness of late, I would have actually been surprised if they did think about their customers' desires for a moment and add in additional control options. None of that matters, though. People should still be angry about it and demand improvement if they care about the issue.

 

[Enduin]

If you're using a pad on PC for ME you're doing it wrong. That said there's no excuse for BioWare to not give people the option to do it wrong. Every game supports it these days and they should be no exception.

And they can't use the excuse of wanting to differentiate between consoles and PC versions when they don't even try to maximize the PC experience like retaining the holster on PC since it doesn't have the memory issues consoles have.

 

[RockmanWhore]

That sucks, the game has been designed first and foremost with controllers in mind and I like playing my PC games on my TV.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

so I asked Manveer Heir (from Bioware) about this on Twitter, here's what he said (bottom->up):

That game...with that kind of budget... dunno, seems weird. :/

So, pretty much, we should be understanding because a massive corporation like EA isn't willing to pony up the paltry sum of cash it would take to implement the 360 controls/interface in the PC version, when they are still charging $60 for the damn thing despite cutting out the middle-man and claiming much higher profits from a large percentage of PC version purchasers.

Makes sense!

 

[Reallink]

Console controllers still come with d-pads last I checked.

And how is it akin to saying that? I was very specific in my statement. Analog works better for some games, digital works better for others. There's no objectively superior option, no matter how much you want there to be one.

For example, I'm playing Kingdoms of Amalur right now on my PC, and I find the character movement quite a bit better when using the 360 pad--same goes for when I was playing Arkham City. Note that in both of those games, the left analog stick is used to determine in which direction your character moves.

However, I also recently played Skyrim, and I found mouse/keyboard to be vastly superior in the game. The left analog stick was simply used as a stop/go mechanism there.

Yes that was poorly worded on my part, I should have included "3D games" or "all games" to that D-pad remark as no FPS/TPS allows the d-pad for movement AFAIK. It's interesting that you would prefer Skyrim with a KB, how does a stealth character even work with digital? I'm assuming crouching only moves at a slow speed or something? I was under the impression there were varying degrees of noise and enemy awareness built into the analog range, but I guess they dumbed it down to where crouching is always as silent as possible, regardless of movement speed?

 

[Vane_MagicCity]

Do the 2 versions have a separate UI? That could be the reason. Maybe they didn't see the value of porting a separate UI to the PC in the cases where somebody is using a controller.

Copy and Paste can be very hard.

 

[jim-jam bongs]

Yes that was poorly worded on my part, I should have included "3D games" or "all games" to that D-pad remark as no FPS/TPS allows the d-pad for movement AFAIK. It's interesting that you would prefer Skyrim with a KB, how does a stealth character even work with digital? I'm assuming crouching only moves at a slow speed or something? I was under the impression there were varying degrees of noise and enemy awareness built into the analog range, but I guess they dumbed it down to where crouching is always a silent as possible, regardless of movement speed?

CAPSLOCK/SHIFT

It doesn't sound like you really know what you're talking about tbh. Also the difference with a D-pad is that you only have your thumb on it, not individual fingers per direction.

 

[Cuban Legend]

Mapping programs do not equal native support. They are often annoying to configure and require you to remember to which button you mapped which key. Not an elegant solution. HUDs and interface elements can change dynamically when an input method is detected. Check out Kingdoms of Amalur or the Batman games for good examples. Hell, even a toggle option in the options menu would be acceptable. They already made both a 360 interface and a KB/M-focused interface. Why not give the player the option to choose which one they want to use on the PC? That's ever becoming the standard for console ports on the PC in 2012, and there's no reason we shouldn't expect it from one of the biggest releases of the year.



Mass Effect 3 does not exist in a vacuum. Just because previous titles left out the option, doesn't mean it should be acceptable today. Again, this isn't about people being surprised. If you look at Bioware and their shittiness of late, I would have actually been surprised if they did think about their customers' desires for a moment and add in additional control options. None of that matters, though. People should still be angry about it and demand improvement if they care about the issue.

It is true that mapping programs don't equal native support. But it's better then asking the developers to force something into the game when they haven't been able to do so for whatever reasons for the last 2 games in the series, especially if that means the developers have to push something out of the game to force something in.

- and the above twitter reply posted seems like a good enough response from Bioware to me. I dont think they would need to lie about the being stretched thin, we all know EA can be a slave-driving Publisher.

-And being angry about something we think is an issue is the rights we have as humans but anger can be based in stupidity and the inability to see the realities of game development as they are, shitty.

 

[Zeliard]

Someone needs to introduce Reallink to Thief 1 & 2.

 

[A Twisty Fluken]

So, pretty much, we should be understanding because a massive corporation like EA isn't willing to pony up the paltry sum of cash it would take to implement the 360 controls/interface in the PC version, when they are still charging $60 for the damn thing despite cutting out the middle-man and claiming much higher profits from a large percentage of PC version purchasers.

Makes sense!

DEV REALITIES

 

[Brod]

Mass Effect 3 is not a racing, fighting or sports game, therefore it does not need gamepad support on PC.

 

[Snuggles]

Mass Effect 3 is not a racing, fighting or sports game, therefore it does not need gamepad support on PC.

...I give up.

 

[Zeliard]

Mass Effect 3 is not a racing, fighting or sports game, therefore it does not need gamepad support on PC.

Don't think that's too reasonable. People would be rightfully annoyed if, say, Assassin's Creed didn't have pad support.

Mass Effect series has to be one of the few console-focused series out there without pad support on the PC version. Can't think of any others off the top of my head, though I'm much more inclined to use kb/m outside of certain types of games, so I don't always look for pad support.

 

[Reallink]

CAPSLOCK/SHIFT

It doesn't sound like you really know what you're talking about tbh. Also the difference with a D-pad is that you only have your thumb on it, not individual fingers per direction.

I'm assuming that is some sort of speed toggle? So you're saying that pushing W + D with your index + middle finger while simultaneously holding shift with your pinky is preferable to pushing an analog stick 2 cm with your thumb? That's a fine example of the point I've been trying to make this whole time.

 

[A Twisty Fluken]

...I give up.

Your message is not lost, worry not.

 

[Shocking4U]

Bioware is getting worse by the minute