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[Anth0ny]

Except for fighting games.
And the d-pad wasn't great.
And the C-nipple wasn't that great.
And the weird Z-button.
And it was wired.

all pads suck for fighting games, get a stick

dpad wasn't needed since the analog stick was so perfect

c-nipple was fine, but a second analog would have been better

z button was fine, but could have been better

wired>wireless


The shape of the controller, layout of buttons, and L/R triggers are second to none.

 

[BY2K]

Like I said in the other thread, GOD DAMN the controller's screen is bright.

 

[AceBandage]

Like I said in the other thread, GOD DAMN the controller's screen is bright.

The DPI also seems pretty high.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KiZ6Cd1j8U
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kDFSTd7iKVs&feature=relmfu

 

[TheExplodingHead]

Pretty much every hands on have been positive and said it's much better than the 3DS slide pad...
Which in and of itself isn't not even that bad.
People seriously don't give the slide pad a chance. It works just fine for everything.

I know, that's why I'm staying optimistic instead of overtly negative. But I haven't heard one person say "this is better or equal to a traditional stick using the same game as a benchmark", that to me will determine for most of us what the end value of the circle pad is. If it can be perfectly applicable to a CoD, Souls, Batman, etc. We need actual cross data to compare with, not just "feels great and better than the 3DS". Because I don't feel like my 3DS feels that great, so that's not saying much.

I want to actually hear some impressions of a cross game benchmark. Of course that's still a ways off, so lots more arguments to ensue.

 

[StreetsAhead]

Like I said in the other thread, GOD DAMN the controller's screen is bright.

Remember that pic of the screen in standby mode (the 'Wii U spotted at CES' one) and everyone was trolling about how it was unacceptable for the screen to be so dark and people posted those high-res pics and they kept on going?
Yeah...

 

[BY2K]

The DPI also seems pretty high.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KiZ6Cd1j8U
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kDFSTd7iKVs&feature=relmfu

It's not confirmed, but the Wii U controller's screen has apparently a resolution of 854x480, which at 6.2 inches gives us a dpi of 158. Which is not that much.

 

[Emitan]

Except for fighting games.
And the d-pad wasn't great.
And the C-nipple wasn't that great.
And the weird Z-button.
And it was wired.

It works great for the best fighting game.

 

[Lord Ghirahim]

It's not confirmed, but the Wii U controller's screen has apparently a resolution of 854x480, which at 6.2 inches gives us a dpi of 158. Which is not that much.

It sounds good to me :/

 

[Terrell]

I'm not saying you're wrong, but basing your reasoning on a comparison pic won't do this argument any end. It say's almost nothing about how it will function game-per-game vs a traditional stick, it say's nothing about the feel or limitations. All you have is basically a hope and a prayer that this pic guarantee's you a marginal performance improvement. Again, not saying your wrong because I haven't used the Upad, but it hardly makes a solid case.

All people can really do is base their experience on real world benchmarks which is the 3DS and alternative analogs. And in that comparison (even with adaptation and game tailoring) more people prefer the traditional stick. But I'll personally remain cautiously optimistic.

Before you say it doesn't address the problem, what are the major complaints about the sliders?

1) There's no real way to grip it with your thumb.

This is addressed by SEEING that there is. You don't need to feel it to know that it's there, you can already SEE it is. Go pick up your nunchuck or Classic Controller. The sticks have the exact same perimeter circle that you see on the WiiU slider pads. There's your valued 1-to-1 use case for that one.

2) There's not enough range of analogue motion.

Once again, the radius of the exterior indentation is visually apparent, so unless all that extra room to move the pad will be dead space where the input doesn't change when you move it, you can SEE it offers a greater range of motion. To claim the contrary is just so wrong that it doesn't even need to be justified.

3) The low profile of the pad offers no leverage to assist your thumb in achieving smaller movement

Many people have already discussed how raised input methods offer better and more precise thumb mobility. And once again, you can visually confirm that the pads on the WiiU have a taller profile than the 3DS one.


The only unknown variable at this point is resistance feedback, where it pushes back a bit the further from the center you get. And I'm willing to concede that's an unknown. But even just LOOKING at the thing, you can see so many positive design decisions that make it impossible to automatically dismiss the WiiU circle pads without being willfully ignorant.

this is better

Saying that in 2001 would have been castigated as a Nintendo fanboy, as back then, THIS was better:

Just saying.

 

[teeny]

The DPI also seems pretty high.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KiZ6Cd1j8U
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kDFSTd7iKVs&feature=relmfu

Slightly non Wii U related but, after rewatching that Zelda demo, I really hope they use a day / night mechanic in the next Zelda that has real gameplay implications and also shows off smilar gorgeous lighting effects.

 

[shnord]

Here are some DPI comparisons:

      1080p at 60":  37  (not meant to be viewed up close obviously!)
            DSi XL:  76
          Game Boy:  83
               DSi:  98
    1080p at 21.5": 102  (my monitor)
      DS & DS lite: 107
 3DS bottom screen: 124
               PSP: 128
    3DS top screen: 132  (effectively)
            iPad 2: 132
            PSP Go: 145
  [b]Wii U controller: 158[/b]  (assuming it's 854x480 at 6.2")
            iPhone: 163
              Vita: 221
          iPhone 4: 326

 

[StreetsAhead]

Here are some DPI comparisons:

      1080p at 60":  37  (not meant to be viewed up close obviously!)
            DSi XL:  76
          Game Boy:  83
               DSi:  98
    1080p at 21.5": 102  (my monitor)
      DS & DS lite: 107
 3DS bottom screen: 124
               PSP: 128
    3DS top screen: 132  (effectively)
            iPad 2: 132
            PSP Go: 145
  [b]Wii U controller: 158[/b]  (assuming it's 854x480 at 6.2")
            iPhone: 163
              Vita: 221
          iPhone 4: 326

Wii U less powerful than Vita confirmed.

 

[BY2K]

Nevermind, then. Looks pretty high from those comparison.

 

[EloquentM]

Nevermind, then. Looks pretty high from those comparison.

that's your second L for the day BY2K. smh

 

[bgassassin]

It's not confirmed, but the Wii U controller's screen has apparently a resolution of 854x480, which at 6.2 inches gives us a dpi of 158. Which is not that much.

Did you get that from a website? Sounds like that came from a website I saw.

 

[BY2K]

My second what?

 

[EloquentM]

My second what?

oh, L = loss, as in to lose at something.

its basically a cultural conceptualization of a sports term turned into a general meaning for when an individual makes some sort of mistake. the first loss I was referencing was you bumping a month old thread.

 

[TheExplodingHead]

Before you say it doesn't address the problem, what are the major complaints about the sliders?

1) There's no real way to grip it with your thumb.

This is addressed by SEEING that there is. You don't need to feel it to know that it's there, you can already SEE it is. Go pick up your nunchuck or Classic Controller. The sticks have the exact same perimeter circle that you see on the WiiU slider pads. There's your valued 1-to-1 use case for that one.

2) There's not enough range of analogue motion.

Once again, the radius of the exterior indentation is visually apparent, so unless all that extra room to move the pad will be dead space where the input doesn't change when you move it, you can SEE it offers a greater range of motion. To claim the contrary is just so wrong that it doesn't even need to be justified.

3) The low profile of the pad offers no leverage to assist your thumb in achieving smaller movement

Many people have already discussed how raised input methods offer better and more precise thumb mobility. And once again, you can visually confirm that the pads on the WiiU have a taller profile than the 3DS one.


The only unknown variable at this point is resistance feedback, where it pushes back a bit the further from the center you get. And I'm willing to concede that's an unknown. But even just LOOKING at the thing, you can see so many positive design decisions that make it impossible to automatically dismiss the WiiU circle pads without being willfully ignorant.

Yeah, I'm one of the people who expressed those concerns. And that's my only real question at this point, accuracy and precision. Just because it has a taller profile doesn't guarantee it will have more or less equal precise/accurate potential. It just means it has a bit more travel distance than a 3DS pad, but still it's an unknown. And also the biggest potential problem among analog precision/accurate controls. None of the other things you addressed concern me, it's a Nintendo controller after all. Pictures can't prove this.

Even if what you say is 100% technically accurate. That's still saying nothing about it's real world comparisons against a traditional say PS3 analog stick, and even less about how both perform the same accurate controls in a real game. Which was my whole point. I'm optimistic, but it ain't case closed.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

The problem with sliders is it takes more thumb effort to keep them held forward than it does for a stick.

You can simply plant your thumb behind the stick, sliders require an active push up.

 

[BY2K]

oh, L = loss, as in to lose at something.

its basically a cultural conceptualization of a sports term turned into a general meaning for when an individual makes some sort of mistake. the first loss I was referencing was you bumping a month old thread.

Figured it wasn't the Wii U's controller screen that has a low dpi, but rather the iPhone 4's that has an insanely high one.

 

[EloquentM]

the wii U sliders appear to be more concave though which should allow for better gripping and less strain when trying to push towards the desired area.

Figured it wasn't the Wii U's controller screen that has a low dpi, but rather the iPhone 4's that has an insanely high one.

to be fair, the iphone 4's dpi is quite high. they've effectively doubled it from previous generations it seems, though I myself haven't really noticed any benefit from it having had an iphone 1, 3g, and 4

 

[Anth0ny]

The problem with sliders is it takes more thumb effort to keep them held forward than it does for a stick.

You can simply plant your thumb behind the stick, sliders require an active push up.

That's my problem with the 3DS, and why I'm afraid of the Wii U controller.

 

[TheExplodingHead]

The problem with sliders is it takes more thumb effort to keep them held forward than it does for a stick.

You can simply plant your thumb behind the stick, sliders require an active push up.

I've noticed this as well playing Zelda OoT and 3DLand. Definitely not a big fan of it. :\

 

[spyhunterzero]

Hey nintyGaf, I finally gave in and decided to join in the madness of this thread after lurking for a majority of the last thread and this one. I haven't kept up with this thread for a few days and was wondering if there was any new news or info that has been shared. There probably isn't, but would still like to know, just in case.

 

[Nibel]

Sure that this is going to be the controller's final design? Because I think we will see some little changes at E3.

And since I like the 3DS slide pad and haven't touched the uPad, I can't offer you a valid opinion if it feels good or not - just like most of us here.

 

[EloquentM]

I've noticed this as well playing Zelda OoT and 3DLand. Definitely not a big fan of it. :\

That's my problem with the 3DS, and why I'm afraid of the Wii U controller.

refer to these posts as evidence that the U pad slide pads (from e3 build, not necessarily the final) should be much more comfortable to use than the 3ds slide pads

FFS, LOOK AT THE CONTROLLER AGAIN, FOLKS.

Compared to THIS:

3 things that immediately are visibly apparent:

- rubber circle for the ability to grip that isn't present on the 3DS pad

- protrudes from the unit MUCH more than the 3DS pad, offering better leverage

- wider recessed circle surrounding the pad, providing greater accuracy and range of motion than the 3DS pad


So let's please please PLEASE stop acting like it's the same god-damn thing when it's clearly, even just from VISUAL INSPECTION, leaps and bounds better.

I believe the Wii U controller Circle/Slide Pads actually have a grippy ring on them, kinda similar to the analog sticks on the Nunchuk and Classic Controller/Pros.

 

[Instro]

I don't mind using slide pads, but it is still a puzzling choice. It's not like the Upad is particularly good looking to begin with, I don't see the point of going for aesthetics in this case. Still though, I think with enough tweaking the slide pad should be on equal footing with a normal analog.

 

[EloquentM]

I'm pretty sure nintendo tested would test out sticks as well instead of just committing to slide pads all willy nilly.

 

[TheExplodingHead]

refer to these posts as evidence that the U pad slide pads (from e3 build, not necessarily the final) should be much more comfortable to use than the 3ds slide pads

Yeah, but again that doesn't reason away what ShockingAlberto said, nor what I've said about it's accuracy and precision compared to a traditional stick. Problem is we don't have any cross data to look at. But it's obvious that a stick provides far more travel distance (resulting in far better more comfortable precision/accuracy) than the slightly upraised Wii U slider.

I agree it appears to be a lot better than the 3DS, but what it doesn't do is provide a rationale for function in a real game. Comfort is different than end functionality.

 

[EloquentM]

Yeah, but again that doesn't reason away what ShockingAlberto said, nor what I've said about it's accuracy and precision compared to a traditional stick. Problem is we don't have any cross data to look at. But it's obvious that a stick provides far more travel distance (resulting in far better more comfortable precision/accuracy) than the slightly upraised Wii U slider.

I agree it appears to be a lot better than the 3DS, but what it doesn't do is provide a rationale for function in a real game. Comfort is different than end functionality.

it really sucks that all we have to go by is last years build because of the possibility that things might change this e3, though I really am curious as to why you guys think raised sticks would be more comfortable and/or accurate on a controller of that size.

I don't believe it was done for aesthetic reasons, but rather for comfort while holding the pad. Pay close attention to how people hold it in videos and especially how people describe its comfort factor. If you replace the slide pads with analog sticks, this method for holding the controller would not be possible - or at least not without jutting your thumbs up and out at a very undesirable angle to sit them fully atop the sticks.

At least that's my impression at any rate.

this is exactly why i dont have a problem with the slide pads

 

[Vinci]

I don't mind using slide pads, but it is still a puzzling choice. It's not like the Upad is particularly good looking to begin with, I don't see the point of going for aesthetics in this case.

I don't believe it was done for aesthetic reasons, but rather for comfort while holding the pad. Pay close attention to how people hold it in videos and especially how people describe its comfort factor. If you replace the slide pads with analog sticks, this method for holding the controller would not be possible - or at least not without jutting your thumbs up and out at a very undesirable angle to sit them fully atop the sticks.

At least that's my impression at any rate.

 

[TheExplodingHead]

it really sucks that all we have to go by is last years build because of the possibility that things might change this e3, though I really am curious as to why you guys think raised sticks would be more comfortable and/or accurate on a controller of that size.

I just they'd put GCN analogs into the Upad instead, I mean how hard is that? Everybody loves the GCN analogs, it aesthetically looks like a ball-in-socket so it would look fine in the controller too. And nobody would have any issues or problems with it, at all. It just boggles my mind why they choose sliders for a mainline home console.

I don't believe it was done for aesthetic reasons, but rather for comfort while holding the pad. Pay close attention to how people hold it in videos and especially how people describe its comfort factor. If you replace the slide pads with analog sticks, this method for holding the controller would not be possible - or at least not without jutting your thumbs up and out at a very undesirable angle to sit them fully atop the sticks.

At least that's my impression at any rate.

With Nintendo's ergonomic geniuses, I doubt it would be a major issue to make slight changes to the controller to accommodate GCN analogs. Silghtly altered placements of the sticks and slight (probably not very noticeable) changes to the ergonomics. And then we're all happy.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

I assume part of the reason they went with sliders as well is that the controller is probably heavier than average and leaving it screenside-down would damage sticks

 

[EloquentM]

I just they'd put GCN analogs into the Upad instead, I mean how hard is that? Everybody loves the GCN analogs, it aesthetically looks like a ball-in-socket so it would look fine in the controller too. And nobody would have any issues or problems with it, at all. It just boggles my mind why they choose sliders for a mainline home console.

i really feel that it has to do with the design of the U pad. most of the area of your palms are relegated to holding the pad from the bottom. if the controller had sticks it'd become increasingly difficult to accurately maneuver those joysticks where you want them to comfortably (think original xbox controller where everything was hard to reach).

 

[Vinci]

I just they'd put GCN analogs into the Upad instead, I mean how hard is that? Everybody loves the GCN analogs, it aesthetically looks like a ball-in-socket so it would look fine in the controller too. And nobody would have any issues or problems with it, at all. It just boggles my mind why they choose sliders for a mainline home console.

Okay. Here. Look at this image again:

Pay close attention to how the person is holding the pad. Imagine if there were analog sticks rather than slide pads. What would their hands have to do in order to reach the sticks properly? Would it be comfortable in your opinion?

EDIT: And notice they're not really wasting any real estate on the controller in those areas. They're trying to make the thing as small as they can horizontally given the screen's dimensions.

 

[Instro]

I don't believe it was done for aesthetic reasons, but rather for comfort while holding the pad. Pay close attention to how people hold it in videos and especially how people describe its comfort factor. If you replace the slide pads with analog sticks, this method for holding the controller would not be possible - or at least not without jutting your thumbs up and out at a very undesirable angle to sit them fully atop the sticks.

At least that's my impression at any rate.

There is that aspect too, however surely they could design it in a way to prevent that problem. I mean this is massive hardware company that spends millions on R&D and engineering products after all.

Couldn't they just deepen the indents where the slide pads are and stick analogs in there?

 

[EloquentM]

Okay. Here. Look at this image again:

Pay close attention to how the person is holding the pad. Imagine if there were analog sticks rather than slide pads. What would their hands have to do in order to reach the sticks properly? Would it be comfortable in your opinion?

EDIT: And notice they're not really wasting any real estate on the controller in those areas. They're trying to make the thing as small as they can horizontally given the screen's dimensions.

I really can't imagine how they could've made that layout any better.

 

[bgassassin]

I don't believe it was done for aesthetic reasons, but rather for comfort while holding the pad. Pay close attention to how people hold it in videos and especially how people describe its comfort factor. If you replace the slide pads with analog sticks, this method for holding the controller would not be possible - or at least not without jutting your thumbs up and out at a very undesirable angle to sit them fully atop the sticks.

At least that's my impression at any rate.

I agree. I've always felt the decision was due to ergonomics.

 

[Vinci]

There is that aspect too, however surely they could design it in a way to prevent that problem. I mean this is massive hardware company that spends millions on R&D and engineering products after all.

Couldn't they just deepen the indents where the slide pads are and stick analogs in there?

Who knows. They might have tried that. As you say, they're a massive hardware company that spends millions on R&D. All I know is this: The uPad, for all its novelty, looks like it has been optimized to a ridiculous degree, IMO. It doesn't look like a prototype; it looks like something that has seen test after test and been refined to a minute level over time.

I'm guessing that this is the configuration that they came up with that best met their functionality-to-comfort requirements. Of course I could be wrong.

 

[TheExplodingHead]

Okay. Here. Look at this image again:

Pay close attention to how the person is holding the pad. Imagine if there were analog sticks rather than slide pads. What would their hands have to do in order to reach the sticks properly? Would it be comfortable in your opinion?

EDIT: And notice they're not really wasting any real estate on the controller in those areas. They're trying to make the thing as small as they can horizontally given the screen's dimensions.

I understand that, I don't think you caught my ninja edit though.

Basically I don't think it would be a huge endeavor to slightly change the placement of the sticks as well as ergonomics to make GCN analogs possible. And it would please everybody, bottom line. Instead of forcing people who don't like it to bend over and adapt, or buy the alt version. Why not make good business sense and please all customers. Just me though.

 

[EloquentM]

I agree. I've always felt the decision was due to ergonomics.

Well the 3DS slide pad seems to leave a bad taste in people's mouths. I myself love how refreshing it can be at times but in general it's not the most comfortable thing in the world to control with.

 

[Vinci]

I understand that, I don't think you caught my ninja edit though.

Basically I don't think it would be a huge endeavor to slightly change the placement of the sticks as well as ergonomics to make GCN analogs possible. And it would please everybody, bottom line. Instead of forcing people who don't like it to bend over and adapt, or buy the alt version. Why not make good business sense and please all customers. Just me though.

There are two options here:

1) The slide pads are not as functional as analog sticks, and Nintendo did this just to be weird (as people love to allege - nevermind the fact that they've perfected the analog stick time and again).

...or...

2) The slide pads, at least these new ones, perform just as well as analog sticks.

In the case of #1: Nintendo has gone insane and deserves all the hell they catch for this. I'll be one of the first to light a torch. In the case of #2: People who are whining now will either figure out they work well, or they'll ignore the system due to some issue they have with Nintendo generally.

I'm betting on #2, personally, as Nintendo seems to do well generally with this sort of thing.

 

[TheExplodingHead]

There are two options here:

1) The slide pads are not as functional as analog sticks, and Nintendo did this just to be weird (as people love to allege - nevermind the fact that they've perfected the analog stick time and again).

...or...

2) The slide pads, at least these new ones, perform just as well as analog sticks.

In the case of #1: Nintendo has gone insane and deserves all the hell they catch for this. I'll be one of the first to light a torch. In the case of #2: People who are whining now will either figure out they work well, or they'll ignore the system due to some issue they have with Nintendo generally.

I'm betting on #2, personally, as Nintendo seems to do well generally with this sort of thing.

Well, #1 is true for their latest device, the 3DS. That slider is far from optimal based on both comfort and function. So...you connect the dots.

If they made a slight error with the 3DS, why should we not presume they might make a slightly smaller error with the Wii U, using the same technology. Isn't it slightly irrational to presume otherwise...?

 

[Bullza2o]

Okay. Here. Look at this image again:

Pay close attention to how the person is holding the pad. Imagine if there were analog sticks rather than slide pads. What would their hands have to do in order to reach the sticks properly? Would it be comfortable in your opinion?

EDIT: And notice they're not really wasting any real estate on the controller in those areas. They're trying to make the thing as small as they can horizontally given the screen's dimensions.

This might have been discussed before, but does the Wii U Pad have a slot where you can connect a CC Pro?

 

[EloquentM]

Well, #1 is true for their latest device, the 3DS. That slider is far from optimal based on both comfort and function. So...you connect the dots.

If they made a slight error with the 3DS, why should we not presume they might make a slightly smaller error with the Wii U, using the same technology. Isn't it slightly irrational to presume otherwise...?

It's not necessarily irrational to be cautious but one could also presume that it's possible they've improved upon that design since the 3DS.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

Well, #1 is true for their latest device, the 3DS. That slider is far from optimal based on both comfort and function. So...you connect the dots.

If they made a slight error with the 3DS, why should we not presume they might make a slightly smaller error with the Wii U, using the same technology. Isn't it slightly irrational to presume otherwise...?

I would guess because the Wii U controller doesn't have to shut closed.

But I suppose we can just keep assuming they did it out of spite.

 

[Vinci]

Well, #1 is true for their latest device, the 3DS. That slider is far from optimal based on both comfort and function. So...you connect the dots.

If they made a slight error with the 3DS, why should we not presume they might make a slightly smaller error with the Wii U, using the same technology. Isn't it slightly irrational to presume otherwise...?

Honestly? I think the 3DS was rushed a bit. Getting it out before the Vita has proven a really nice strategic advantage; they're essentially dictating terms to the only competition they've ever really had in the portable space. That's not a defense of their choice, by the way. I won't buy the thing as it currently exists, for more than that though.

The Wii U's reveal was rushed, but I think the controller has been in development for a long while. It simply looks too polished to me. Understand, I'm not suggesting that one or the other side is being irrational. I have concerns about the slide pads myself, even if I think I understand why they went with them. [Part of me thinks the slide pads were designed for the Wii U first and then moved to the 3DS later, resulting in a sub-optimal version. It seems like too big of a change from an analog stick to a slide pad without some sort of bridge between.]

Oh well. We'll see. I anxiously await thorough play testing of the controller myself.

 

[TheExplodingHead]

It's not necessarily irrational to be cautious but one could also presume that it's possible they've improved upon that design since the 3DS.

I have no doubts they've improved upon it, maybe greatly. I just question the rationale for not choosing ergo and analog system that rubs everybody the right way. That's all I'm saying.

I would guess because the Wii U controller doesn't have to shut closed.

But I suppose we can just keep assuming they did it out of spite.

I assume they did it for aesthetic reasons first and foremost, then for the ergonomics they designed to support the aesthetic, then they worried about function. That's my hunch. Could still turn out good though.

Edit: And they still could have designed the 3DS to have a Vita-like analog and close shut. Both in the fool proof and ergo design. Might have been a bit bigger, but who cares if it controls and functions better. Might have actually forced them to perfect the design instead of so many customers getting scratched screens...

 

[Diortem7]

This might have been discussed before, but does the Wii U Pad have a slot where you can connect a CC Pro?

It has an expansion port, but it's not the same kind that the CC Pro uses. I don't see what the point would be anyway since the Wii U pad has the same buttons.

 

[EloquentM]

It has an expansion port, but it's not the same kind that the CC Pro uses. I don't see what the point would be anyway since the Wii U pad has the same buttons.

uh-oh