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Hackers using unreleased on-disc Street Fighter X Tekken DLC in online play
- Thread starter subversus
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Hell no. I have to accept them anyway to play whatever I've purchased.
Is this what you are talking about though:
?
Excuse me, but such budget decisions are artificial. Some exec just decided to do that. He also could have just decided to use the whole money for the game, so that it's full of content, worth 60$ and could also stay on the 60$ mark for months. Just take a look at Nintendo games. They rarely drop in price, they especially normally don't drop in price within weeks/few months.
I thought it was obvious that I wasn't talking about Undead Nightmare-like DLC budget. Yes, that one definitely had a separate budget and was done after RDR was finished. And that's totally fine with me.
One company creates a game out of 50 million. Another company does the same but splits those 50 million into 40 million and 10 million for "DLC". Both companies were able to afford 50 million in total in game development costs - and in those cases it was up-front money, that's the point. Just saying that some of it was in the "DLC budget" doesn't change anything at all. That decision was just artificially made for having an excuse for DLC. If they couldn't afford it, they wouldn't have done it in the first place. But they did. They thought that it will get them a few dollars more income on top of the 60$ price tag. So actually doing those things is nothing else, but ripping parts out of the game, selling those parts for 60$, so that the actual game is 70$ or even 80$.
Using "but the DLC wasn't in the budget" excuse is just that, a cheap excuse for releasing expensive DLC. It's especially outrageous for additional characters, skins or maybe even colors.
Capcom charging 3$ for additional *colors*? Oh that's fine, because the additional COLOR wasn't included in the budget. And guess what - that color change isn't trivial as you think. It was 1/20 of the total development costs of Street Fighter III. It required 10 programmers for 3 months in total. Anyone saying otherwise has no idea what he is talking about.
If they used actual numbers and costs, additional colors should be 0.05$ at most. No, actually such trivial changes should be included in the 60$ price tag.
The Take Out Bandit
Member
If there were no online play it would be dead in the water.
Fighting game community will never accept that.
StoppedInTracks
Member
I guess by removing the ; in the INI file:
Code:
#
#The following enables DLC characters.
#Do not modify.
#CAPCPOM 2012
#
;Elena=bEnabled
;Guy=bEnabled
;Cody=bEnabled
;Blanka=bEnabled
;Bryan=bEnabled
;Lei=bEnabled
;Lars=bEnabled
;MegaMan=bEnabled
;Pac-Man=bEnabled
;Alisa=bEnabled
;Sakura=bEnabled
;Christie=bEnabled
;Dudley=bEnabledFlying Wonkey
Member
Back from what. -_-
SolarPowered
Member
Triple Da G.O.D!
Member
A semicolon to freedom.
DONE!!!!
Ninja Edit: Capcpom strikes again. LOLZ!!!!
DONE!!!!
Ninja Edit: Capcpom strikes again. LOLZ!!!!
Ok, I laughed.
StoppedInTracks
Member
I can imagine some pro-tourney fighters already working on their skills with these new characters under some fake accounts on disposable 360 consoles...
Sho_Nuff82
Member
Capcom could have easily avoided this fiasco with a tiered pricing at launch. Standard edition for $60, Limited Edition for $70-$80. Many of us gladly preordered the MvC3 LE for Jill and Shuma.
As it stands, they shipped 50 characters, but only sold 36.
As it stands, they shipped 50 characters, but only sold 36.
Banana Kid
Member
Irrelevance?
SFIV made fighting games mainstream again. We wouldn't be seeing all the fighting games we have now without it.
This again ?
Of course they are! Just grinding in practice mode with these characters before they come out will give them an incredible advantage over anyone who chooses not to.
plagiarize
Banned
i am fine with people doing this. i am also fine with them all getting banned from Xbox Live.
You assumed they meant downloadable content. If you look at the packaging, it actually says 'Dubiously Locked Content'. Possibly.
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
This is pointing out the obvious - of course budgets are "artificial". If Capcom felt like it they could spend 100 million on a fighting game and put 600 characters in it. (If they felt like not turning a profit too.)
Most people who have pointed out the DLC budget aspect, that I've seen, are just saying complaining about the DLC is pointless in that the extra characters would not exist anyway to be bitched about if Capcom hadn't decided to do it that way. This is not an "excuse" for how much the total game costs.
Let me put it another way: by all means say that an $80 fighting game is too expensive. Just don't pretend that the game has content you were "owed" in advance that has now been taken away from you. Which is how a ton of people rationalize. "I paid sixty bux and now I own EVERYTHING that was ever made at Capcom during the period of time in which this game was developed."
Which is a silly thing to say. You own what Capcom offered for sixty dollars. You're free to be unhappy with that (though a game with the base content of SFxT is exactly in line with the price of similar games).
Riposte
Member
Impossible to tell. Capcom might have made less fighting games, but they are just one company. Even with them in mind Marvel was being made before SFIV.
Having a delay on the characters makes sense from a marketing perspective. But they clearly needed to make the characters unplayable (say, by setting their damage output to zero until a patch updated them) so this situation wouldn't arise if they were going to include the assets on disc.
LAUGHTREY
Modesty becomes a woman
Rather banned than a smug asshole.
EYEL1NER
Member
While I really would like to buy the characters now and really hate the wait, I am not too upset that pirates/hackers have access to the content and I don't. I mean, I don't get too upset that I pay for games and there are people out there who don't.
It sucks, just like Ubisoft's PC DRM, but I'm not too broken up about it. Hopefully they get banned and it's done with.
It sucks, just like Ubisoft's PC DRM, but I'm not too broken up about it. Hopefully they get banned and it's done with.
They sold 36 characters, but some of these people bought 50.
Why would they? They can't use these characters in tournaments. They don't allow DLC characters.
Because even a few days of secret training still gives you an advantage?
No one likes anything.
Like I mentioned in the last lolCapcomDLC thread (and the one before that, and the one before that), people like to bitch about character DLC in fighting games when they really can't offer functional, better solutions to the same problems. No game has done it "right" mostly due to platform holder restrictions and such which people like to be ignorant about. I've yet to see anyone make a rational alternative to these ugly practices they're forced to resort to. This isn't Ubisoft where they're doing things just to be explicitly and unnecessarily difficult.
I don't know if that's meant to be sarcasm, but DLC characters are usually allowed if they are not locked to one system or broken in some way.
StoppedInTracks
Member
To train and hone their skill for tourneys post official DLC release.
I'm willing to bet the vast majority of these people didn't pay for the game to begin with.
I'm Brave Sir Dave!
You seem to be working on the assumption that fighting games must have DLC. I'd say the solution is pretty obvious once you remove that assumption. Provide the full roster on day one and leave it at that. You can't miss what they don't make.
I don't remember sitting down in front of MvC2 and saying "well, 50 characters is great but this game really needs 70 characters. I can't wait until DLC is invented!".
Well, yeah I am talking about in the context where there is DLC. That spins off into the whole DLC to subsidize costs argument, which i dont want to get into, but even without that, DLC is a way to extend the life of a fighting game (through updates and more content) more efficiently than with new iterations. Which is sort of a win-win for developers and consumers in a perfect world who are both very keen on the idea.
Even with 50 characters in UMvC3, people are still itching to get whatever they didn't get on their last plate. And when it comes? No matter the form it's in, those same people will be upset.
We need to wait until next gen before we can see the potential for improvement. If Microsoft and Sony streamline the patching and updating process for games to be more akin to Apple's, fighting games will benefit enormously.
Flying Wonkey
Member
DLC and fighting games seems to be a giant hassle this generation in general. All these updates and changes to fix stuff that only creates a divide between people that do or don't get the updates. Heck even downloading compatibility packs were a hassle to people in Mortal Kombat apparently even though that sounds like the best idea. (What do you mean you want to play a fighting game and not keep up to date? Heck Arcade Owners were doin it)
Fighting games can do away with DLC though. These games offer plenty play time (I've got 650 hours clocked in at T6 and this isn't my first file
) on there own, way more than all the big budgetty AAA games like Uncharted and shit. People are still playing Tekken 6 and participating in tournaments to this day for instance and that game hasn't seen an update in a long while. Not like it's any obligation but hey If people hate it guts and If it's just a pain on the devs to make/produce/distribute DLC then it's a pretty easy thing to chop off on the priority list.Oh well, maybe the next generation of console hardware platforms will alleviate most of these issues and make it easier for everyone to update and yaddayadda.
Considering everyone that does this will be banned, I wouldn't say they "won".
Zoe
Member
Not sure about MS, but Sony charges for bandwidth.
I agree. DLC should be balance patches for fighters. This whole "download new characters" thing? It hasn't worked that well, and no one likes the different methods of doing it. Honestly, I don't think they should bother with it in the future.
And people using this as a defense ASSUME this as well. No evidence that those characters would never exist just like Javik from ME3. In fact early designs and planning on both cases point the other way. Hell Cody and Guy were in that Poison reveal trailer way back at SDCC.
The mental gymnastics people play to justify their favorite companies is getting ridiculous. Look, you want to buy the DLC, go ahead but the defenses used for this are weak thats why this argument is ongoing and never ending. And people are going to continue to bitch and call companies out on this as consumers fighting for what rights we have left. I mean FFS at this point
1) we don't own that actual disc we bought
2) we don't really own the console we bought
3) we shouldn't rent or trade in or buy used those games we don't really own
4) on top of xbox live you pay for an online pass, either by getting said game new or paying $10 because they can shut those online servers down at anytime
5) you don't get to play everything on that disc you bought
6) anything else they forgot to limit or take away from us they can just by inserting words in the EULA agreement
7) If you bring up or try to question any of this you are a whiny entitled prick
Look at the EA online pass shutting down servers thread. Here is a hint GAME COMPANIES ARE NOT YOUR FRIENDS. They don't require your defense, they are not your buddies, they are not going to come to the hospital when you are sick and they are not going to reward you for your patronage and fighting for them. Their "community managers" are not there out of the kindness of their hearts and by the grace of the company. Ono does not have a twitter account out of pure love for you and the fans. They may have some fun doing it but IT IS THEIR JOB!
They want your money, they are a business, and they want your money. End of story, no bromance or hidden agenda. PR people are there saying whatever they need to say to diffuse a situation. This is the biggest problem with gaming communities so close to gaming companies and I think it the only industry out there capable of it, maybe to an extent the music industry. They use it to gauge what the hell they can get away with and this generation they have found they can pretty much get away with most anything. I'm honest to goodness terrified of what next gen is going to end up being.
And this doucebag has the audacity to call the gamers who unlocked these on-disc characters "ballsy" Look at your damn selves Capcom.
Banana Kid
Member
It's probably to avoid the problems with online play that Mortal Kombat ran into. The consoles right now don't allow patches big enough to ensure everyone gets the character data, so they had to put out compatibility packs to try and get the data into everyone's hands.
It just led to a bunch of people not bothering to download the big files, and you were unable to use your DLC characters online against people who hadn't bought them or downloaded the compatibility pack. It was a mess, and putting all the data on the disc at least guarantees that won't happen.
Capcom wants them banned. Doesn't mean MS will oblige. They ban pirates / hackers on the odd time they feel like it. On the same schedule Capcom will fix their broken netcode basically.
Neuromancer
Member
Good for them I say.
scytheavatar
Member
Someone said that there's only 1 line that has to be changed and it's either all 12 characters are enabled or they are disabled. That is their intention from day 1.
Maybe there were talks before SFIV, but development on MvC3 didn't begin until the summer of 2009 (over a year after the arcade release of SFIV).
Master Milk
Member
I like DLC. I like the concept, anyway. Everyone doesn't always execute well, but that doesn't change the fact that DLC itself is a good idea. I think you might be right, though. If it's going to cause this much trouble, no matter what option a company takes, it might be best to not even bother with DLC.
That's not going to happen though, because DLC is more money for the companies.
Blazblue had the DLC characters patched in. They weren't on the disc. And you could play against them even if you didn't buy them. Giving the people the option of adding the characters or not is stupid. Force the patch or don't let them online.