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[Mechanized]

And people using this as a defense ASSUME this as well. No evidence that those characters would never exist just like Javik from ME3. In fact early designs and planning on both cases point the other way. Hell Cody and Guy were in that Poison reveal trailer way back at SDCC.

The mental gymnastics people play to justify their favorite companies is getting ridiculous. Look, you want to buy the DLC, go ahead but the defenses used for this are weak thats why this argument is ongoing and never ending. And people are going to continue to bitch and call companies out on this as consumers fighting for what rights we have left. I mean FFS at this point

1) we don't own that actual disc we bought
2) we don't really own the console we bought
3) we shouldn't rent or trade in or buy used those games we don't really own
4) on top of xbox live you pay for an online pass, either by getting said game new or paying $10 because they can shut those online servers down at anytime
5) you don't get to play everything on that disc you bought
6) anything else they forgot to limit or take away from us they can just by inserting words in the EULA agreement
7) If you bring up or try to question any of this you are a whiny entitled prick

Look at the EA online pass shutting down servers thread. Here is a hint GAME COMPANIES ARE NOT YOUR FRIENDS. They don't require your defense, they are not your buddies, they are not going to come to the hospital when you are sick and they are not going to reward you for your patronage and fighting for them. Their "community managers" are not there out of the kindness of their hearts and by the grace of the company. Ono does not have a twitter account out of pure love for you and the fans. They may have some fun doing it but IT IS THEIR JOB!

They want your money, they are a business, and they want your money. End of story, no bromance or hidden agenda. PR people are there saying whatever they need to say to diffuse a situation. This is the biggest problem with gaming communities so close to gaming companies and I think it the only industry out there capable of it, maybe to an extent the music industry. They use it to gauge what the hell they can get away with and this generation they have found they can pretty much get away with most anything. I'm honest to goodness terrified of what next gen is going to end up being.

And this doucebag has the audacity to call the gamers who unlocked these on-disc characters "ballsy" Look at your damn selves Capcom.

Completely agree.

 

[Neuromancer]

And people using this as a defense ASSUME this as well. No evidence that those characters would never exist just like Javik from ME3. In fact early designs and planning on both cases point the other way. Hell Cody and Guy were in that Poison reveal trailer way back at SDCC.

The mental gymnastics people play to justify their favorite companies is getting ridiculous. Look, you want to buy the DLC, go ahead but the defenses used for this are weak thats why this argument is ongoing and never ending. And people are going to continue to bitch and call companies out on this as consumers fighting for what rights we have left. I mean FFS at this point

1) we don't own that actual disc we bought
2) we don't really own the console we bought
3) we shouldn't rent or trade in or buy used those games we don't really own
4) on top of xbox live you pay for an online pass, either by getting said game new or paying $10 because they can shut those online servers down at anytime
5) you don't get to play everything on that disc you bought
6) anything else they forgot to limit or take away from us they can just by inserting words in the EULA agreement
7) If you bring up or try to question any of this you are a whiny entitled prick

Look at the EA online pass shutting down servers thread. Here is a hint GAME COMPANIES ARE NOT YOUR FRIENDS. They don't require your defense, they are not your buddies, they are not going to come to the hospital when you are sick and they are not going to reward you for your patronage and fighting for them. Their "community managers" are not there out of the kindness of their hearts and by the grace of the company. Ono does not have a twitter account out of pure love for you and the fans. They may have some fun doing it but IT IS THEIR JOB!

They want your money, they are a business, and they want your money. End of story, no bromance or hidden agenda. PR people are there saying whatever they need to say to diffuse a situation. This is the biggest problem with gaming communities so close to gaming companies and I think it the only industry out there capable of it, maybe to an extent the music industry. They use it to gauge what the hell they can get away with and this generation they have found they can pretty much get away with most anything. I'm honest to goodness terrified of what next gen is going to end up being.

And this doucebag has the audacity to call the gamers who unlocked these on-disc characters "ballsy" Look at your damn selves Capcom.

God damn son

 

[tsab]

Someone said that there's only 1 line that has to be changed and it's either all 12 characters are enabled or they are disabled. That is their intention from day 1.

It was a joke. See bolded part

#The following enables DLC characters.
#Do not modify.
#CAPCPOM 2012

 

[AtomicShroom]

And people using this as a defense ASSUME this as well. No evidence that those characters would never exist just like Javik from ME3. In fact early designs and planning on both cases point the other way. Hell Cody and Guy were in that Poison reveal trailer way back at SDCC.

The mental gymnastics people play to justify their favorite companies is getting ridiculous. Look, you want to buy the DLC, go ahead but the defenses used for this are weak thats why this argument is ongoing and never ending. And people are going to continue to bitch and call companies out on this as consumers fighting for what rights we have left. I mean FFS at this point

1) we don't own that actual disc we bought
2) we don't really own the console we bought
3) we shouldn't rent or trade in or buy used those games we don't really own
4) on top of xbox live you pay for an online pass, either by getting said game new or paying $10 because they can shut those online servers down at anytime
5) you don't get to play everything on that disc you bought
6) anything else they forgot to limit or take away from us they can just by inserting words in the EULA agreement
7) If you bring up or try to question any of this you are a whiny entitled prick

Look at the EA online pass shutting down servers thread. Here is a hint GAME COMPANIES ARE NOT YOUR FRIENDS. They don't require your defense, they are not your buddies, they are not going to come to the hospital when you are sick and they are not going to reward you for your patronage and fighting for them. Their "community managers" are not there out of the kindness of their hearts and by the grace of the company. Ono does not have a twitter account out of pure love for you and the fans. They may have some fun doing it but IT IS THEIR JOB!

They want your money, they are a business, and they want your money. End of story, no bromance or hidden agenda. PR people are there saying whatever they need to say to diffuse a situation. This is the biggest problem with gaming communities so close to gaming companies and I think it the only industry out there capable of it, maybe to an extent the music industry. They use it to gauge what the hell they can get away with and this generation they have found they can pretty much get away with most anything. I'm honest to goodness terrified of what next gen is going to end up being.

And this doucebag has the audacity to call the gamers who unlocked these on-disc characters "ballsy" Look at your damn selves Capcom.

This x 1000000000

 

[cednym]

It was a joke. See bolded part

He's not talking about that. There's actually a file where you have to change one line of text to enable all of the DLC characters.

 

[zlatko]

It'd suck to go up against a Dudley/Steve player online. They have a brain dead combo for like 90% of your health. I'd be salty as fuck if that shit hit me.

 

[Woo-Fu]

Considering everyone that does this will be banned, I wouldn't say they "won".

Considering they're asking for screenshots from players as "evidence" I find it highly unlikely that "everyone that does this" will be banned.

If it is detectable on their end they don't need any screenshots, so either the guy is full of shit, full of stupid, or both.

DLC that ships on disk is by definition no longer DLC, they need to call it something else if they have any honesty whatsoever. Common practice in the application world, where people understand the difference between licensing and media kits, but unacceptable for gamers who think they own everything on whatever media they buy.

 

[Seraphinianus]

there are upsides and downsides to both approaches:

on-disc DLC:
+No compatibility packs to download
+Presumably no worries about another disc release that splinters the online and milks your wallet (they say game engine patches will be free.) You just pay $20 or not.
+Characters are preplanned and can be rebalanced along with how the game develops when they release
+Good price and the game is already huge
+Unlock keys are a quick, tiny download


-feels scummy and artificial
-people with modded Xboxes have an advantage
-costume prices are still too damn high!
-Might get a GOTY sku at a discount after all the content is unlocked

off-disc DLC:
+You get the complete game (maybe)
+The company makes it after the game is completed (maybe)
+it's extra and not an excised part of the game (maybe)
+it's more honest to consumers (maybe)
+Nobody gets it before release

-compatibility packs need to be downloaded
-the downloads are bigger
-splinters online community
-might get a GOTY sku with all the dlc at a cheap price after it all slowly releases

....

maybe that didn't go so well...

 

[Foxy Fox 39]

OK. For those of us not in the loop, what are the bullet points?

- Capcpoms past DLC eff ups (if you guys could fill it in here. Can't remember exactly how SFIV+SSFIV+AE went down)

- SFvT marketed Guy and Cody in the launch trailer.

- Later they were removed and placed into DLC purgatory.

- Capcom said they needed to tweak DLC and it wasn't ready yet hence the 6 month wait

- Files are on disc so capcom lied....or mislead again.

- "Hackers" edit file to play with unlocked characters online.

 

[cednym]

A lot of those on-disc DLC pros aren't really positive, though.

 

[Omegasquash]

I'm really wondering why game companies think that they can get away with not looking like douchebags when they put content on the physical disc that you bought and paid for and own.

Amazing.

 

[vg260]

One company creates a game out of 50 million. Another company does the same but splits those 50 million into 40 million and 10 million for "DLC". Both companies were able to afford 50 million in total in game development costs - and in those cases it was up-front money, that's the point. Just saying that some of it was in the "DLC budget" doesn't change anything at all. That decision was just artificially made for having an excuse for DLC. If they couldn't afford it, they wouldn't have done it in the first place. But they did. They thought that it will get them a few dollars more income on top of the 60$ price tag. So actually doing those things is nothing else, but ripping parts out of the game, selling those parts for 60$, so that the actual game is 70$ or even 80$.

As the creator, shouldn't you be able to decide how to bundle and price your work? In any case, whatever the DLC, it took company resources to make. Why isn't it their call? Isn't it all their time and money spent making this? Why do customers feel they have to have the entire expenditure's worth of content? Are we funding them? Is it the customers right to demand all the funding's worth of content on disc? Why do customers suddenly feel they have say of the budget? Why does the customer now feel like they have the right to deserve more than what's being sold to them for the price they pay? Just some stuff to think about.

 

[McNum]

I'm really wondering why game companies think that they can get away with not looking like douchebags when they put content on the physical disc that you bought and paid for and own.

Amazing.

I'm amazed that they think the players won't find out. All the console formats are readable somehow, some more difficult than others, but if you really want to read it, you can.

That someone found out how to enable these characters is just a matter of time. And some people have both the skills and a lot of time to figure this out. And then the pirated version of the game has 12 characters more than the legal one.

It'd be funny if it wasn't so sad how so many companies fail that one simple DRM/DLC sanity check. "Will the pirated version be superior to the official one?" If the answer is yes, you failed.

 

[SolarPowered]

No one likes anything.

Like I mentioned in the last lolCapcomDLC thread (and the one before that, and the one before that), people like to bitch about character DLC in fighting games when they really can't offer functional, better solutions to the same problems. No game has done it "right" mostly due to platform holder restrictions and such which people like to be ignorant about. I've yet to see anyone make a rational alternative to these ugly practices they're forced to resort to. This isn't Ubisoft where they're doing things just to be explicitly and unnecessarily difficult.

Would it be wrong to say that the fake UMvC3 rumor is the best solution by far? Post launch DLC made from scratch using fan input(Capcom follows the polls somewhat, Marvel just fucks around with us) at a reasonable price($15 for 8 characters) seems like the best deal we could get imo.

 

[Hunter-Zero]

And people using this as a defense ASSUME this as well. No evidence that those characters would never exist just like Javik from ME3. In fact early designs and planning on both cases point the other way. Hell Cody and Guy were in that Poison reveal trailer way back at SDCC.

The mental gymnastics people play to justify their favorite companies is getting ridiculous. Look, you want to buy the DLC, go ahead but the defenses used for this are weak thats why this argument is ongoing and never ending. And people are going to continue to bitch and call companies out on this as consumers fighting for what rights we have left. I mean FFS at this point

1) we don't own that actual disc we bought
2) we don't really own the console we bought
3) we shouldn't rent or trade in or buy used those games we don't really own
4) on top of xbox live you pay for an online pass, either by getting said game new or paying $10 because they can shut those online servers down at anytime
5) you don't get to play everything on that disc you bought
6) anything else they forgot to limit or take away from us they can just by inserting words in the EULA agreement
7) If you bring up or try to question any of this you are a whiny entitled prick

Look at the EA online pass shutting down servers thread. Here is a hint GAME COMPANIES ARE NOT YOUR FRIENDS. They don't require your defense, they are not your buddies, they are not going to come to the hospital when you are sick and they are not going to reward you for your patronage and fighting for them. Their "community managers" are not there out of the kindness of their hearts and by the grace of the company. Ono does not have a twitter account out of pure love for you and the fans. They may have some fun doing it but IT IS THEIR JOB!

They want your money, they are a business, and they want your money. End of story, no bromance or hidden agenda. PR people are there saying whatever they need to say to diffuse a situation. This is the biggest problem with gaming communities so close to gaming companies and I think it the only industry out there capable of it, maybe to an extent the music industry. They use it to gauge what the hell they can get away with and this generation they have found they can pretty much get away with most anything. I'm honest to goodness terrified of what next gen is going to end up being.

And this doucebag has the audacity to call the gamers who unlocked these on-disc characters "ballsy" Look at your damn selves Capcom.

This post deserves to be quoted from here to eternity.

 

[Omegasquash]

I'm amazed that they think the players won't find out. All the console formats are readable somehow, some more difficult than others, but if you really want to read it, you can.

That someone found out how to enable these characters is just a matter of time. And some people have both the skills and a lot of time to figure this out. And then the pirated version of the game has 12 characters more than the legal one.

It'd be funny if it was so sad how so many companies fail that one simple DRM/DLC sanity check. "Will the pirated version be superior to the official one?" If the answer is yes, you failed.

They're greedy, not stupid. They know that people will find out, and I'd bet that they knew they'd be dealing with a little bit of PR shit. It's driving towards a norm that I'm really worried about.

But the best way to avoid all of this if you don't like it? Don't buy the game. Don't pirate that shit either. Just don't play it, but do go on out and play other things.

 

[Str0ngStyle]

Gamers think they are purchasing a good (what I buy belongs to me), publishers think they're selling a service (I can tell them what they can and can't use).


cue clusterfuck

And this right here is the root of the problem.

Something's gotta give. And soon

 

[Pandaman]

good on the hackers, im kind of jealous as sakura and elena would make SFxT an instant buy for me. :3

i hope capcom gets around to banning them if they can.

 

[The Anti-Monitor]

And people using this as a defense ASSUME this as well. No evidence that those characters would never exist just like Javik from ME3. In fact early designs and planning on both cases point the other way. Hell Cody and Guy were in that Poison reveal trailer way back at SDCC.

The mental gymnastics people play to justify their favorite companies is getting ridiculous. Look, you want to buy the DLC, go ahead but the defenses used for this are weak thats why this argument is ongoing and never ending. And people are going to continue to bitch and call companies out on this as consumers fighting for what rights we have left. I mean FFS at this point

1) we don't own that actual disc we bought
2) we don't really own the console we bought
3) we shouldn't rent or trade in or buy used those games we don't really own
4) on top of xbox live you pay for an online pass, either by getting said game new or paying $10 because they can shut those online servers down at anytime
5) you don't get to play everything on that disc you bought
6) anything else they forgot to limit or take away from us they can just by inserting words in the EULA agreement
7) If you bring up or try to question any of this you are a whiny entitled prick

Look at the EA online pass shutting down servers thread. Here is a hint GAME COMPANIES ARE NOT YOUR FRIENDS. They don't require your defense, they are not your buddies, they are not going to come to the hospital when you are sick and they are not going to reward you for your patronage and fighting for them. Their "community managers" are not there out of the kindness of their hearts and by the grace of the company. Ono does not have a twitter account out of pure love for you and the fans. They may have some fun doing it but IT IS THEIR JOB!

They want your money, they are a business, and they want your money. End of story, no bromance or hidden agenda. PR people are there saying whatever they need to say to diffuse a situation. This is the biggest problem with gaming communities so close to gaming companies and I think it the only industry out there capable of it, maybe to an extent the music industry. They use it to gauge what the hell they can get away with and this generation they have found they can pretty much get away with most anything. I'm honest to goodness terrified of what next gen is going to end up being.

And this doucebag has the audacity to call the gamers who unlocked these on-disc characters "ballsy" Look at your damn selves Capcom.

This should be on your tag or something.

 

[Ferrio]

Yep. I wonder if Bamcos version will suffer as a result of backlash.

That's a good point I haven't thought of yet. I'd be really pissed about all this negative press with my IP if I was Namco.

 

[Sayah]

Irrelevance?

SFIV made fighting games mainstream again. We wouldn't be seeing all the fighting games we have now without it.

lolololol
Virtua Fighter, Tekken, Soul Calibur, Dead or Alive......all the 3D fighters have been alive and well. These fighters kept running new entries well before SFIV arrived and sold in the millions and still do. Capcom only resurrected its own 2D fighting scene. It didn't help anyone else b/c they never needed help in the first place.

 

[Hunter-Zero]

lolololol
Virtua Fighter, Tekken, Soul Calibur, Dead or Alive......all the 3D fighters have been alive and well. These fighters kept running new entries well before SFIV arrived and sold in the millions and still do. Capcom only resurrected its own 2D fighting scene. It didn't help anyone else b/c they never needed help in the first place.

So true, i really never stopped playing new fighting games, for me and those who play this type of shit since the eighties/nineties, SFVI did nothing in that regard.

 

[BrLvgThrChmstry]

And people using this as a defense ASSUME this as well. No evidence that those characters would never exist just like Javik from ME3. In fact early designs and planning on both cases point the other way. Hell Cody and Guy were in that Poison reveal trailer way back at SDCC.

The mental gymnastics people play to justify their favorite companies is getting ridiculous. Look, you want to buy the DLC, go ahead but the defenses used for this are weak thats why this argument is ongoing and never ending. And people are going to continue to bitch and call companies out on this as consumers fighting for what rights we have left. I mean FFS at this point

1) we don't own that actual disc we bought
2) we don't really own the console we bought
3) we shouldn't rent or trade in or buy used those games we don't really own
4) on top of xbox live you pay for an online pass, either by getting said game new or paying $10 because they can shut those online servers down at anytime
5) you don't get to play everything on that disc you bought
6) anything else they forgot to limit or take away from us they can just by inserting words in the EULA agreement
7) If you bring up or try to question any of this you are a whiny entitled prick

Look at the EA online pass shutting down servers thread. Here is a hint GAME COMPANIES ARE NOT YOUR FRIENDS. They don't require your defense, they are not your buddies, they are not going to come to the hospital when you are sick and they are not going to reward you for your patronage and fighting for them. Their "community managers" are not there out of the kindness of their hearts and by the grace of the company. Ono does not have a twitter account out of pure love for you and the fans. They may have some fun doing it but IT IS THEIR JOB!

They want your money, they are a business, and they want your money. End of story, no bromance or hidden agenda. PR people are there saying whatever they need to say to diffuse a situation. This is the biggest problem with gaming communities so close to gaming companies and I think it the only industry out there capable of it, maybe to an extent the music industry. They use it to gauge what the hell they can get away with and this generation they have found they can pretty much get away with most anything. I'm honest to goodness terrified of what next gen is going to end up being.

And this doucebag has the audacity to call the gamers who unlocked these on-disc characters "ballsy" Look at your damn selves Capcom.

I'mma go ahead and quote this post full of awesome.

 

[Valnen]

Considering they're asking for screenshots from players as "evidence" I find it highly unlikely that "everyone that does this" will be banned.

If it is detectable on their end they don't need any screenshots, so either the guy is full of shit, full of stupid, or both.

DLC that ships on disk is by definition no longer DLC, they need to call it something else if they have any honesty whatsoever. Common practice in the application world, where people understand the difference between licensing and media kits, but unacceptable for gamers who think they own everything on whatever media they buy.

Maybe they need to stop thinking wrong.

 

[tigerin]

As the creator, shouldn't you be able to decide how to bundle and price your work? In any case, whatever the DLC, it took company resources to make. Why isn't it their call? Isn't it all their time and money spent making this? Why do customers feel they have to have the entire expenditure's worth of content? Are we funding them? Is it the customers right to demand all the funding's worth of content on disc? Why do customers suddenly feel they have say of the budget? Why does the customer now feel like they have the right to deserve more than what's being sold to them for the price they pay? Just some stuff to think about.

Cause the customers aré always right.

 

[Veal]

Ponn01 name should be Truth101. Gotdamn!

 

[Ponn]

As the creator, shouldn't you be able to decide how to bundle and price your work? In any case, whatever the DLC, it took company resources to make. Why isn't it their call? Isn't it all their time and money spent making this? Why do customers feel they have to have the entire expenditure's worth of content? Are we funding them? Is it the customers right to demand all the funding's worth of content on disc? Why do customers suddenly feel they have say of the budget? Why does the customer now feel like they have the right to deserve more than what's being sold to them for the price they pay? Just some stuff to think about.

This is missing the point. Nobody at all is arguing they CANNOT do whatever they want. They sure can, unlike how they feel about their consumers but thats off the topic here.

Just because they can do it does not make it ethical or acceptable business practice though. Doing it does not automatically mean the consumers should be accepting of it. We have a history of precedence on how we purchase games and the content and that does change from game to game. They build "trust" and loyalty with consumers. There are limits to what you do with your product and how you deliver it to your consumers without breaking down that trust consumers have in your business and product.

Thats why the argument is not simply of well should they have just sold the dlc separately instead of putting it on the disc. There is more to it then that, its about delivering the best product you could to the consumers on the disc you sold them in trust. This is the end nasty result of peoples original apprehension with the advent of DLC this generation.

It does have a potential good place in gaming, like the Shadow Broker DLC. Extending the life of a game months after release, keeping people to hang on to their discs and putting an ACTUAL separate budget and development time after the game is released being able to address feedback and concerns.

 

[Ferrio]

And people using this as a defense ASSUME this as well. No evidence that those characters would never exist just like Javik from ME3. In fact early designs and planning on both cases point the other way. Hell Cody and Guy were in that Poison reveal trailer way back at SDCC.

The mental gymnastics people play to justify their favorite companies is getting ridiculous. Look, you want to buy the DLC, go ahead but the defenses used for this are weak thats why this argument is ongoing and never ending. And people are going to continue to bitch and call companies out on this as consumers fighting for what rights we have left. I mean FFS at this point

1) we don't own that actual disc we bought
2) we don't really own the console we bought
3) we shouldn't rent or trade in or buy used those games we don't really own
4) on top of xbox live you pay for an online pass, either by getting said game new or paying $10 because they can shut those online servers down at anytime
5) you don't get to play everything on that disc you bought
6) anything else they forgot to limit or take away from us they can just by inserting words in the EULA agreement
7) If you bring up or try to question any of this you are a whiny entitled prick

Look at the EA online pass shutting down servers thread. Here is a hint GAME COMPANIES ARE NOT YOUR FRIENDS. They don't require your defense, they are not your buddies, they are not going to come to the hospital when you are sick and they are not going to reward you for your patronage and fighting for them. Their "community managers" are not there out of the kindness of their hearts and by the grace of the company. Ono does not have a twitter account out of pure love for you and the fans. They may have some fun doing it but IT IS THEIR JOB!

They want your money, they are a business, and they want your money. End of story, no bromance or hidden agenda. PR people are there saying whatever they need to say to diffuse a situation. This is the biggest problem with gaming communities so close to gaming companies and I think it the only industry out there capable of it, maybe to an extent the music industry. They use it to gauge what the hell they can get away with and this generation they have found they can pretty much get away with most anything. I'm honest to goodness terrified of what next gen is going to end up being.

And this doucebag has the audacity to call the gamers who unlocked these on-disc characters "ballsy" Look at your damn selves Capcom.

Good man. I remember a time when console/company zealots were just harmless idiots. Now they actively harm the community, blindly buying into whatever ***** company tells them.

 

[Seik]

And people using this as a defense ASSUME this as well. No evidence that those characters would never exist just like Javik from ME3. In fact early designs and planning on both cases point the other way. Hell Cody and Guy were in that Poison reveal trailer way back at SDCC.

The mental gymnastics people play to justify their favorite companies is getting ridiculous. Look, you want to buy the DLC, go ahead but the defenses used for this are weak thats why this argument is ongoing and never ending. And people are going to continue to bitch and call companies out on this as consumers fighting for what rights we have left. I mean FFS at this point

1) we don't own that actual disc we bought
2) we don't really own the console we bought
3) we shouldn't rent or trade in or buy used those games we don't really own
4) on top of xbox live you pay for an online pass, either by getting said game new or paying $10 because they can shut those online servers down at anytime
5) you don't get to play everything on that disc you bought
6) anything else they forgot to limit or take away from us they can just by inserting words in the EULA agreement
7) If you bring up or try to question any of this you are a whiny entitled prick

Look at the EA online pass shutting down servers thread. Here is a hint GAME COMPANIES ARE NOT YOUR FRIENDS. They don't require your defense, they are not your buddies, they are not going to come to the hospital when you are sick and they are not going to reward you for your patronage and fighting for them. Their "community managers" are not there out of the kindness of their hearts and by the grace of the company. Ono does not have a twitter account out of pure love for you and the fans. They may have some fun doing it but IT IS THEIR JOB!
They want your money, they are a business, and they want your money. End of story, no bromance or hidden agenda. PR people are there saying whatever they need to say to diffuse a situation. This is the biggest problem with gaming communities so close to gaming companies and I think it the only industry out there capable of it, maybe to an extent the music industry. They use it to gauge what the hell they can get away with and this generation they have found they can pretty much get away with most anything. I'm honest to goodness terrified of what next gen is going to end up being.

And this doucebag has the audacity to call the gamers who unlocked these on-disc characters "ballsy" Look at your damn selves Capcom.

Man, this post...fucking AMEN! People, read this, read it and read it again.

I'm amazed that some people white knight Capcom all the way after a story like that. :/

 

[StoppedInTracks]

And people using this as a defense ASSUME this as well. No evidence that those characters would never exist just like Javik from ME3. In fact early designs and planning on both cases point the other way. Hell Cody and Guy were in that Poison reveal trailer way back at SDCC.

The mental gymnastics people play to justify their favorite companies is getting ridiculous. Look, you want to buy the DLC, go ahead but the defenses used for this are weak thats why this argument is ongoing and never ending. And people are going to continue to bitch and call companies out on this as consumers fighting for what rights we have left. I mean FFS at this point

1) we don't own that actual disc we bought
2) we don't really own the console we bought
3) we shouldn't rent or trade in or buy used those games we don't really own
4) on top of xbox live you pay for an online pass, either by getting said game new or paying $10 because they can shut those online servers down at anytime
5) you don't get to play everything on that disc you bought
6) anything else they forgot to limit or take away from us they can just by inserting words in the EULA agreement
7) If you bring up or try to question any of this you are a whiny entitled prick

Look at the EA online pass shutting down servers thread. Here is a hint GAME COMPANIES ARE NOT YOUR FRIENDS. They don't require your defense, they are not your buddies, they are not going to come to the hospital when you are sick and they are not going to reward you for your patronage and fighting for them. Their "community managers" are not there out of the kindness of their hearts and by the grace of the company. Ono does not have a twitter account out of pure love for you and the fans. They may have some fun doing it but IT IS THEIR JOB!

They want your money, they are a business, and they want your money. End of story, no bromance or hidden agenda. PR people are there saying whatever they need to say to diffuse a situation. This is the biggest problem with gaming communities so close to gaming companies and I think it the only industry out there capable of it, maybe to an extent the music industry. They use it to gauge what the hell they can get away with and this generation they have found they can pretty much get away with most anything. I'm honest to goodness terrified of what next gen is going to end up being.

And this doucebag has the audacity to call the gamers who unlocked these on-disc characters "ballsy" Look at your damn selves Capcom.

Win.

I also think Twitter/ Facebook etc. are allowing for some really dangerous situations between fans and gaming companies (see EA banning people from their games for posts on their forums).

 

[McNum]

They're greedy, not stupid. They know that people will find out, and I'd bet that they knew they'd be dealing with a little bit of PR shit. It's driving towards a norm that I'm really worried about.

But the best way to avoid all of this if you don't like it? Don't buy the game. Don't pirate that shit either. Just don't play it, but do go on out and play other things.

Done and done. The game had a horrible release window anyway. Go on, launch against Mass Effect 3, see what happens.

I might see if I can find the game used when the DLC is finally released, but I doubt I'll care about the game at that point. I would have bought the game with all the characters unlocked, but not the one Capcom is currently offering. Not enough content for the price.

Wonder how well SFxTekken really sold, come to think of it.

 

[Dartastic]

I honestly don't see these people as pirates.

 

[jimi_dini]

As the creator, shouldn't you be able to decide how to bundle and price your work?

The creator can put whatever pricetag he wants on the product. But he should be honest. You got over-budget and want more monies? Put a 90$ price sticker on the product. If it's worth it, people will buy it. If no one buys it now - too bad, but not the consumers fault.

I'm just against this whole sell half of the game for fullprice and ask for the missing price later to unlock content on the disc, which was already created prior game release and was therefore also already paid. Because it's just a rip-off. It's like buying a cake and then right when you buy it, they remove some slices for you to buy later.

Why do customers feel they have to have the entire expenditure's worth of content?

I'm expecting the publisher to be honest. Hell, I even prefered THQs approach to DLC for Saints Row 3. It backfired in my case, because I wanted to buy the game day-1, but then didn't because of the xxx-weeks of DLC, but at least they were honest.

I don't get this thing anyway. Why don't they just give out DLC passes for all the upcoming DLC (cases like Undead Nightmare not included of course) for day-1 buyers and then remove them 1-2 weeks after release? This would create an initiative to buy on day-1. Of course, you couldn't rip off those customers and proper publishers/studios release the full game day-1 and even add some collectables for day-1 buyers (best example: Dark Souls).

Are we funding them?

Indirectly yes
Without consumer, there won't be game developers nor game publishers.

Is it the customers right to demand all the funding's worth of content on disc? Why do customers suddenly feel they have say of the budget?

I don't care about their budget or managment issues. If they went over, their problem. If they used too much monies and lose monies because of that, also their problem. I care about dishonest publishers and ripping-off the customer. Especially ripping of day-1 buyers. It makes no sense. If day-1 buyers are pissed off, they won't buy day-1 again. They will wait for a super-sale. And then the publishers got a real problem.

And don't tell me anything about poor developers. First of all game developers (non-indie) don't starve, they normally get paid pretty well. Second most of the time they are paid before game release. In the Fallout:NV case, they would have gotten bonus payments for a high metacritic rating. If I knew and played the game, I would have happily rated the game 10/10 on metacritic. Strangely no bonus payments for high DLC sales. So the only one that benefits (most of the time) from such behaviour is the publisher and the execs (+shareholders). And really, the execs+shareholders can all go to hell, if it was my call. I'm not funding them. If anyone on GAF is happy to pay extra for some greedy exec, well their choice.

And I'm also fully against business practices like that in business software like SAP i.s.h.med. They are using somewhat the same tactic like those publishers. Sell you a medical healthcare solution and then - if you need an interface for clinical orders, it's not included. You have to pay extra (or develop one on your own, like I did). That's the same method and it's a rip-off. (for people not experienced in SAP i.s.h.med.: interfaces for anything BUT clinical orders are included)

 

[vg260]

Just because they can do it does not make its ethical or acceptable business practice though. Doing it does not automatically mean the consumers should be accepting of it.

Acceptable to the consumer? That's a fair question, but the core content plays a huge part in how this feels, I'd say. It's a fine line to balance. I don't see an *ethical* dilemma here at all, though, and thik that is off-base going by on those questions I mentioned. After all it is their work, so selling how they want doesn't seem unethical. It's merely a value/perception issue. Most people ranting aren't really thinking about like you might be, and are simply claiming Capcom are thieves for stealing their money and not giving them what they "paid for" which is patently false. Those questions are mostly geared to those people.

I'm just against this whole sell half of the game for fullprice and ask for the missing price later to unlock content on the disc, which was already created prior game release and was therefore also already paid. Because it's just a rip-off. It's like buying a cake and then right when you buy it, they remove some slices for you to buy later.

It might *feel* incomplete, sure, I feel that way too, but this is where people are absolutely in the wrong on this argument.

 

[.la1n]

And people using this as a defense ASSUME this as well. No evidence that those characters would never exist just like Javik from ME3. In fact early designs and planning on both cases point the other way. Hell Cody and Guy were in that Poison reveal trailer way back at SDCC.

The mental gymnastics people play to justify their favorite companies is getting ridiculous. Look, you want to buy the DLC, go ahead but the defenses used for this are weak thats why this argument is ongoing and never ending. And people are going to continue to bitch and call companies out on this as consumers fighting for what rights we have left. I mean FFS at this point

1) we don't own that actual disc we bought
2) we don't really own the console we bought
3) we shouldn't rent or trade in or buy used those games we don't really own
4) on top of xbox live you pay for an online pass, either by getting said game new or paying $10 because they can shut those online servers down at anytime
5) you don't get to play everything on that disc you bought
6) anything else they forgot to limit or take away from us they can just by inserting words in the EULA agreement
7) If you bring up or try to question any of this you are a whiny entitled prick

Look at the EA online pass shutting down servers thread. Here is a hint GAME COMPANIES ARE NOT YOUR FRIENDS. They don't require your defense, they are not your buddies, they are not going to come to the hospital when you are sick and they are not going to reward you for your patronage and fighting for them. Their "community managers" are not there out of the kindness of their hearts and by the grace of the company. Ono does not have a twitter account out of pure love for you and the fans. They may have some fun doing it but IT IS THEIR JOB!

They want your money, they are a business, and they want your money. End of story, no bromance or hidden agenda. PR people are there saying whatever they need to say to diffuse a situation. This is the biggest problem with gaming communities so close to gaming companies and I think it the only industry out there capable of it, maybe to an extent the music industry. They use it to gauge what the hell they can get away with and this generation they have found they can pretty much get away with most anything. I'm honest to goodness terrified of what next gen is going to end up being.

And this doucebag has the audacity to call the gamers who unlocked these on-disc characters "ballsy" Look at your damn selves Capcom.

I shall continue this quote for as long as humanly possible. Well done. FUCKING WELL DONE.

 

[Ponn]

Acceptable to the consumer? That's a fair question, but the core content plays a huge part in how this feels, I'd say. It's a fine line to balance. I don't see an *ethical* dilemma here at all, though, and thik that is off-base going by on those questions I mentioned. After all it is their work, so selling how they want doesn't seem unethical. It's merely a value/perception issue. Most people ranting aren't really thinking about like you might be, and are simply claiming Capcom are thieves for stealing their money and not giving them what they "paid for" which is patently false. Those questions are mostly geared to those people.

I don't think you are wanting to debate or have a discussion here since you cut out and seemingly ignored everything else I said that directly addresses what you just posted. There's a reason why "ethics" usually don't mix well with business practices. You could use endless loops of logic and reasoning to explain why they are doing what they are doing, and again, thats not the point.

Basically if you do not see anything ethically wrong with what they are doing then so be it, theres not going to be anything I say to change your mind and i'm not going to try to. If you don't think building trust with a consumer and delivering the absolute best game you made on the disc you sold the customer WITHOUT the shady tactics and endless excuses is a factor then so be it.

 

[obonicus]

There is more to it then that, its about delivering the best product you could to the consumers on the disc you sold them in trust.

But isn't this the crux of the issue? What, exactly, did you buy? I mean, the roster was known ahead of time. As were the features, as were the bullshit DLC gems. I think that in this case on 360 you were explicitly not buying a game with these DLC characters. At some point I think it stops being an issue with the publisher and an issue with the consumer: why is it that you buy something you know is shit, and at the same time demand so angrily that it not be shit? It's not even a mixed message anymore; it's Fry furiously demanding that they shut up and take his money.

 

[Des0lar]

And people using this as a defense ASSUME this as well. No evidence that those characters would never exist just like Javik from ME3. In fact early designs and planning on both cases point the other way. Hell Cody and Guy were in that Poison reveal trailer way back at SDCC.

The mental gymnastics people play to justify their favorite companies is getting ridiculous. Look, you want to buy the DLC, go ahead but the defenses used for this are weak thats why this argument is ongoing and never ending. And people are going to continue to bitch and call companies out on this as consumers fighting for what rights we have left. I mean FFS at this point

1) we don't own that actual disc we bought
2) we don't really own the console we bought
3) we shouldn't rent or trade in or buy used those games we don't really own
4) on top of xbox live you pay for an online pass, either by getting said game new or paying $10 because they can shut those online servers down at anytime
5) you don't get to play everything on that disc you bought
6) anything else they forgot to limit or take away from us they can just by inserting words in the EULA agreement
7) If you bring up or try to question any of this you are a whiny entitled prick

Look at the EA online pass shutting down servers thread. Here is a hint GAME COMPANIES ARE NOT YOUR FRIENDS. They don't require your defense, they are not your buddies, they are not going to come to the hospital when you are sick and they are not going to reward you for your patronage and fighting for them. Their "community managers" are not there out of the kindness of their hearts and by the grace of the company. Ono does not have a twitter account out of pure love for you and the fans. They may have some fun doing it but IT IS THEIR JOB!

They want your money, they are a business, and they want your money. End of story, no bromance or hidden agenda. PR people are there saying whatever they need to say to diffuse a situation. This is the biggest problem with gaming communities so close to gaming companies and I think it the only industry out there capable of it, maybe to an extent the music industry. They use it to gauge what the hell they can get away with and this generation they have found they can pretty much get away with most anything. I'm honest to goodness terrified of what next gen is going to end up being.

And this doucebag has the audacity to call the gamers who unlocked these on-disc characters "ballsy" Look at your damn selves Capcom.

Just add that you can't even post on some companies forum anymore because you will lose all your games if you get banned and this post is perfection.

 

[StayDead]

And people using this as a defense ASSUME this as well. No evidence that those characters would never exist just like Javik from ME3. In fact early designs and planning on both cases point the other way. Hell Cody and Guy were in that Poison reveal trailer way back at SDCC.

The mental gymnastics people play to justify their favorite companies is getting ridiculous. Look, you want to buy the DLC, go ahead but the defenses used for this are weak thats why this argument is ongoing and never ending. And people are going to continue to bitch and call companies out on this as consumers fighting for what rights we have left. I mean FFS at this point

1) we don't own that actual disc we bought
2) we don't really own the console we bought
3) we shouldn't rent or trade in or buy used those games we don't really own
4) on top of xbox live you pay for an online pass, either by getting said game new or paying $10 because they can shut those online servers down at anytime
5) you don't get to play everything on that disc you bought
6) anything else they forgot to limit or take away from us they can just by inserting words in the EULA agreement
7) If you bring up or try to question any of this you are a whiny entitled prick

Look at the EA online pass shutting down servers thread. Here is a hint GAME COMPANIES ARE NOT YOUR FRIENDS. They don't require your defense, they are not your buddies, they are not going to come to the hospital when you are sick and they are not going to reward you for your patronage and fighting for them. Their "community managers" are not there out of the kindness of their hearts and by the grace of the company. Ono does not have a twitter account out of pure love for you and the fans. They may have some fun doing it but IT IS THEIR JOB!

They want your money, they are a business, and they want your money. End of story, no bromance or hidden agenda. PR people are there saying whatever they need to say to diffuse a situation. This is the biggest problem with gaming communities so close to gaming companies and I think it the only industry out there capable of it, maybe to an extent the music industry. They use it to gauge what the hell they can get away with and this generation they have found they can pretty much get away with most anything. I'm honest to goodness terrified of what next gen is going to end up being.

And this doucebag has the audacity to call the gamers who unlocked these on-disc characters "ballsy" Look at your damn selves Capcom.

One of the best posts I've ever read on the internet. Bravo!

 

[Bizazedo]

I'm more mad at Capcom's inept handling of the situation. How bad do you have to be to let me know I can't have characters for 6 months because Sony supplied moneyhats and also make it so that I can see other people playing them, be it on ranked or even the Youtubes.

It's basically Capcom telling me, not only do they NOT want my money, they want me to feel like an inferior customer (as my preferred console is the 360).

It's just bizarre from a PR perspective.

I had the same confusion with Marvel alt costumes, albeit at a much more "meh" level. I know the theory is waiting to release extends gameplay, but I can't imagine them getting equal or MORE money from customers by waiting til the casuals quit the game to release DLC.

The Sony moneyhats must block out the sun.

 

[aquavelva]

And people using this as a defense ASSUME this as well. No evidence that those characters would never exist just like Javik from ME3. In fact early designs and planning on both cases point the other way. Hell Cody and Guy were in that Poison reveal trailer way back at SDCC.

The mental gymnastics people play to justify their favorite companies is getting ridiculous. Look, you want to buy the DLC, go ahead but the defenses used for this are weak thats why this argument is ongoing and never ending. And people are going to continue to bitch and call companies out on this as consumers fighting for what rights we have left. I mean FFS at this point

1) we don't own that actual disc we bought
2) we don't really own the console we bought
3) we shouldn't rent or trade in or buy used those games we don't really own
4) on top of xbox live you pay for an online pass, either by getting said game new or paying $10 because they can shut those online servers down at anytime
5) you don't get to play everything on that disc you bought
6) anything else they forgot to limit or take away from us they can just by inserting words in the EULA agreement
7) If you bring up or try to question any of this you are a whiny entitled prick

Look at the EA online pass shutting down servers thread. Here is a hint GAME COMPANIES ARE NOT YOUR FRIENDS. They don't require your defense, they are not your buddies, they are not going to come to the hospital when you are sick and they are not going to reward you for your patronage and fighting for them. Their "community managers" are not there out of the kindness of their hearts and by the grace of the company. Ono does not have a twitter account out of pure love for you and the fans. They may have some fun doing it but IT IS THEIR JOB!

They want your money, they are a business, and they want your money. End of story, no bromance or hidden agenda. PR people are there saying whatever they need to say to diffuse a situation. This is the biggest problem with gaming communities so close to gaming companies and I think it the only industry out there capable of it, maybe to an extent the music industry. They use it to gauge what the hell they can get away with and this generation they have found they can pretty much get away with most anything. I'm honest to goodness terrified of what next gen is going to end up being.

And this doucebag has the audacity to call the gamers who unlocked these on-disc characters "ballsy" Look at your damn selves Capcom.

BUT CLIFFY B IS MY BRO!!!!! As this gen goes on, I buy less games even though having more disposable income; and this is one of the main reasons why. Game companies aren't your friends people. Cliffy B doesn't want to pre game with you, Ono doesn't want to hang and get a couple of beers, and Kojima doesn't wanna go play pool with you. They want to your money, that's it.

 

[Chuckpebble]

OK, gonna play devil's advocate for a moment...

Is disk locked content avoidable in this situation? When the characters are released, if you don't buy it, but someone else does, what the heck are you going to see when you fight that person online? A fighting polygon from smash brothers?

 

[Zuly]

Relevant.

 

[Takuya]

And people using this as a defense ASSUME this as well. No evidence that those characters would never exist just like Javik from ME3. In fact early designs and planning on both cases point the other way. Hell Cody and Guy were in that Poison reveal trailer way back at SDCC.

The mental gymnastics people play to justify their favorite companies is getting ridiculous. Look, you want to buy the DLC, go ahead but the defenses used for this are weak thats why this argument is ongoing and never ending. And people are going to continue to bitch and call companies out on this as consumers fighting for what rights we have left. I mean FFS at this point

1) we don't own that actual disc we bought
2) we don't really own the console we bought
3) we shouldn't rent or trade in or buy used those games we don't really own
4) on top of xbox live you pay for an online pass, either by getting said game new or paying $10 because they can shut those online servers down at anytime
5) you don't get to play everything on that disc you bought
6) anything else they forgot to limit or take away from us they can just by inserting words in the EULA agreement
7) If you bring up or try to question any of this you are a whiny entitled prick

Look at the EA online pass shutting down servers thread. Here is a hint GAME COMPANIES ARE NOT YOUR FRIENDS. They don't require your defense, they are not your buddies, they are not going to come to the hospital when you are sick and they are not going to reward you for your patronage and fighting for them. Their "community managers" are not there out of the kindness of their hearts and by the grace of the company. Ono does not have a twitter account out of pure love for you and the fans. They may have some fun doing it but IT IS THEIR JOB!

They want your money, they are a business, and they want your money. End of story, no bromance or hidden agenda. PR people are there saying whatever they need to say to diffuse a situation. This is the biggest problem with gaming communities so close to gaming companies and I think it the only industry out there capable of it, maybe to an extent the music industry. They use it to gauge what the hell they can get away with and this generation they have found they can pretty much get away with most anything. I'm honest to goodness terrified of what next gen is going to end up being.

And this doucebag has the audacity to call the gamers who unlocked these on-disc characters "ballsy" Look at your damn selves Capcom.

I'm just curious... What is your stance on online-multiplayer components of games being locked on XBOX360 if you do not pay a GOLD subscription, despite paying the same $59.99 as every other person out there?

 

[Gordon Shumway]

Relevant.

But, its not YOUR house..apparently.

 

[Won]

Good to see that this continues to bite Capcom in the ass.

 

[Emitan]

Relevant.

Don't forget you can't even buy it from him for 6 months.

 

[Cimarron]

On not a single frak was given.

I really despise on disc DLC. I love DLC but day one DLC and on disc DLC (why often is the same thing) is robbery. Screw you Capcpom.

 

[MisterHero]

Capcom is giving DLC a bad name

and DLC already had a bad name

 

[Ponn]

But isn't this the crux of the issue? What, exactly, did you buy? I mean, the roster was known ahead of time. As were the features, as were the bullshit DLC gems. I think that in this case on 360 you were explicitly not buying a game with these DLC characters. At some point I think it stops being an issue with the publisher and an issue with the consumer: why is it that you buy something you know is shit, and at the same time demand so angrily that it not be shit? It's not even a mixed message anymore; it's Fry furiously demanding that they shut up and take his money.

Because I aaw that trailer with Cody and Guy and I TRUSTED Capcom to sell me a complete game they developed.

As a consumer I don't have to give a shit how they balanced their books to come to the conclusion to try and sell a complete game to me that locks out 12 characters from my use. They are not "entitled" to me jumping through mental hoops to justify what they did.

They didn't have to make these characters timed exclusives for Vita. They have 6 months, they could have actually had a DLC budget with the sony moneyhat money and really develop Vita exclusive characters for its release in 6 months then turned around and sold those as dlc characters. But they didn't.

I'm just curious... What is your stance on online-multiplayer components of games being locked on XBOX360 if you do not pay a GOLD subscription, despite paying the same $59.99 as every other person out there?

I found that practice shitty thats why I ended up selling my Xbox 360 and moving to PS3 exclusive. Of course now with people lapping that shit up you can be sure PS4 won't be a safe haven for that next gen either. Thankfully I don't play many multiplayer games at all so it won't effect me much as long as i'm not required to pay for it to even turn on the console or play single player games.