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The Hobbit 48fps first impressions

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S

starchild excalibur

Member
Not a fan of 60fps video, so while I'm sure 48 will be a little better I'm pretty sure I'll be in the camp that wished it was just 24. When i watch films, I want them to look cinematic and not like actuality. I don't need to literally feel like I'm in The Hobbit if it's at the possible risk of losing the cinematic feel that I've come to grow and love.

Different strokes for different folks, I guess.

zoukka said:
No it actually makes no sense at all. Do you see news broadcast as bad cgi or unrealistic looking?
Click to expand...

I see news broadcasts that look like news broadcasts. I'd prefer my films to not look like news broadcasts, personally.
 
S

SCULLIBUNDO

Banned
starchild excalibur said:
Not a fan of 60fps video, so while I'm sure 48 will be a little better I'm pretty sure I'll be in the camp that wished it was just 24. When i watch films, I want them to look cinematic and not like actuality. I don't need to literally feel like I'm in The Hobbit if it's at the possible risk of losing the cinematic feel that I've come to grow and love.

Different strokes for different folks, I guess.



I see news broadcasts that look like news broadcasts. I'd prefer my films to not look like news broadcasts, personally.
Click to expand...

At one point in time, 16-18fps was what we called cinematic.
 
S

starchild excalibur

Member
Scullibundo said:
At one point in time, 16-18fps was what we called cinematic.
Click to expand...

But as someone who has grown up almost solely watching 24fps films, it's what I consider cinematic. Keep in mind I'm not arguing that there's anything inherently wrong with 48fps, I just think the higher framerates look too video-y due to being someone who didn't grow up during the creation of the film medium nor in the future where maybe 48fps will be the norm.

Branduil said:
Well the good news is that the differences between a news broadcast and a film are not limited to the framerate.
Click to expand...

You're absolutely right. But for the purpose of this discussion, I'm not taking into account the discrepancies in lighting, editing, etc. Just the motion quality.
 
S

SCULLIBUNDO

Banned
Zeppelin said:
To SotC fans, it still is.
Click to expand...

SimpsonsHomerSmile.gif
 
S

SCULLIBUNDO

Banned
starchild excalibur said:
But as someone who has grown up almost solely watching 24fps films, it's what I consider cinematic. Keep in mind I'm not arguing that there's anything inherently wrong with 48fps, I just think the higher framerates look too video-y due to being someone who didn't grow up during the creation of the film medium nor in the future where maybe 48fps will be the norm.
Click to expand...

Yes. There will be a big adjustment period all we've ever known to cinematic throughout every major breakthrough has had the one constant being the framerate. So of course it looks jarring. But it's naive to say that something is worse because it is different (not that I'm suggesting that is what you're saying). I just don't think we should hold back progress solely because we're afraid to change. That is the biggest hindrance to any kind of progress - fear.
 
S

starchild excalibur

Member
Scullibundo said:
Yes. There will be a big adjustment period all we've ever known to cinematic throughout every major breakthrough has had the one constant being the framerate. So of course it looks jarring. But it's naive to say that something is worse because it is different (not that I'm suggesting that is what you're saying). I just don't think we should hold back progress solely because we're afraid to change. That is the biggest hindrance to any kind of progress - fear.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure I fully agree with a move to 48fps being progress. Those that prefer it seem to cite it as being a better representative of actuality, but in a medium where the goal isn't necessarily to represent the world as it literally is I don't know that it can be considered progress. Just as an homage to silent-era films shown at sub-24fps wouldn't be considered a step-back because of it's stylistic utilization. I'm certainly for filmmakers utilizing whatever framerate they think best serves the story, but just as I don't consider 3D a step forward in any way but technological, I can't really consider higher framerates anything else but that either. Maybe I'll feel differently after seeing the film though. *shrug*
 
P

PjotrStroganov

Member
Question. What prevents older 60fps lcd tv's from being able to output lower framerates. Is it hardware or do manufacturers just refuse to upgrade their firmware?
 
Z

Zabka

Member
PjotrStroganov said:
Question. What prevents older 60fps lcd tv's from being able to output lower framerates. Is it hardware or do manufacturers just refuse to upgrade their firmware?
Click to expand...

Companies wouldn't waste their time with firmware upgrades adding features to old TVs since most people will never apply them.

It's a shame because my old LG does 24p at 48 Hz. I wonder if I could force it from my PC.
 
D

drugstore_cowboy

Member
You might have more of a chance if your display can handle 50hz.

I had an older Samsung LCD TV a few years back that wouldn't accept 24p but it could work at 48hz, my projector now isn't synced at exactly 48.000hz (something like 47.98hz) but I haven't noticed a single dropped frame in the clip.
 
D

Dirtsaw

Member
IMAX throws a little cold water on the party? Not all theaters to get 48fps
From this mornings conf call:

James Marsh - Piper Jaffray & Co. - Analyst
Understood. And then just one last quick question. There's been a lot of talk at cinema con about 48frames per second. I assume it's just a quick
software upgrade for your projectors
Unidentified Speaker
It actually isn't quick software upgrade. It requires some R&D on our part and requires some cost. And certainly we intend to upgrade a number of
projectors in our system to accommodate the Hobbit, Peter Jackson's film, which is shot in 48frames per second. So as I say, we're going to take
part in, that but it's not so simple
 
R

Raistlin

Post Count: 9999
Dirtsaw said:
IMAX throws a little cold water on the party? Not all theaters to get 48fps
From this mornings conf call:

James Marsh - Piper Jaffray & Co. - Analyst
Understood. And then just one last quick question. There's been a lot of talk at cinema con about 48frames per second. I assume it's just a quick
software upgrade for your projectors
Unidentified Speaker
It actually isn't quick software upgrade. It requires some R&D on our part and requires some cost. And certainly we intend to upgrade a number of
projectors in our system to accommodate the Hobbit, Peter Jackson's film, which is shot in 48frames per second. So as I say, we're going to take
part in, that but it's not so simple
Click to expand...
It sounds like a fair number of Digital theaters will get the update though, but they don't support 4K.



If you're looking for 4K 48p, supposedly a majority of Sony 4K theaters will support it

Look here to see if any are in your area:
http://pro.sony.com/bbsc/ssr/mkt-di...ets-mkt-digicinema-latest-webapp4ktheatregmap
 
K

kemalettin

Banned
bluerei said:
Surrrrrre...I have no money to buy an epic, but enough to buy lens that even 1 of which cost more than an epic. And double the price? When did red announce that? Oh yeah, they haven't yet. And even at double the price, it's still less than buying an Epic. Something that for what I do, I have no use for. I don't overcrank to where I need 300fps. I mostly do photography with it. Why waste money on features I'll never use? Unlike you, for me it's not about status. It's about what I need to get the job done. I bet you don't even touch all the features the epic has. And never will.

And again, it's the same sensor. You're not going to have any difference in noise between an epic and scarlet.

Also yes, less problems. Less redmote problems during sync, Epic didn't even have playback until after the Scarlet came out, and way less freezes.

But why bring this up now? What purpose does your rant have anything to do with what we're talking about? Hard to believe someone so immature has an epic and I've met a ton of epic/scarlet users. GAF and RED communities don't need people like you. I doubt you even have an epic. Or if you do, not talented enough to use one. Go back to DSLRs.
Click to expand...
still wanna bet on less problems part dude? GAF is just a stupid gamers forums come to reduser we ll have nice chat.i have the same name on there :)
So you think you are smarter than epic owners because of you didnt get epic?waste money on features and 300fps? 5K? 4K 48fps? and so many features cant write now..
i bet you dont even have Redrocket card and debayering R3D footage for a week on your shitty computer.Get a Dslr dude its right tool for you believe me.
Which lenses do you have? since MASTAAAAA primes costs $25K (each of them for sure) they are not more expensive than epic..
just curious.
 
R

Raistlin

Post Count: 9999
PjotrStroganov said:
Question. What prevents older 60fps lcd tv's from being able to output lower framerates. Is it hardware or do manufacturers just refuse to upgrade their firmware?
Click to expand...
HW.

Though even if it was FW, many TV's aren't designed to be upgradable to begin with. And even if they were I don't think it's a realistic expectation for manufacturers to add new features years after a product has been released.
 
R

Raistlin

Post Count: 9999
kemalettin said:
still wanna bet on less problems part dude? GAF is just a stupid gamers forums come to reduser we ll have nice chat.i have the same name on there :)
So you think you are smarter than epic owners because of you didnt get epic?waste money on features and 300fps? 5K? 4K 48fps? and so many features cant write now..
i bet you dont even have Redrocket card and debayering R3D footage for a week on your shitty computer.Get a Dslr dude its right tool for you believe me.
Which lenses do you have? since MASTAAAAA primes costs $25K (each of them for sure) they are not more expensive than epic..
just curious.
Click to expand...

bye bye


can't say we'll miss you
 
S

StudioTan

Hold on, friend! I'd love to share with you some swell news about the Windows 8 Metro UI! Wait, where are you going?
kemalettin said:
still wanna bet on less problems part dude? GAF is just a stupid gamers forums come to reduser we ll have nice chat.i have the same name on there :)
So you think you are smarter than epic owners because of you didnt get epic?waste money on features and 300fps? 5K? 4K 48fps? and so many features cant write now..
i bet you dont even have Redrocket card and debayering R3D footage for a week on your shitty computer.Get a Dslr dude its right tool for you believe me.
Which lenses do you have? since MASTAAAAA primes costs $25K (each of them for sure) they are not more expensive than epic..
just curious.
Click to expand...

Your Shift key seems to be malfunctioning. Figure you could at least afford a functioning keyboard, what with all your monies.
 
S

starchild excalibur

Member
kemalettin said:
still wanna bet on less problems part dude? GAF is just a stupid gamers forums come to reduser we ll have nice chat.i have the same name on there :)
So you think you are smarter than epic owners because of you didnt get epic?waste money on features and 300fps? 5K? 4K 48fps? and so many features cant write now..
i bet you dont even have Redrocket card and debayering R3D footage for a week on your shitty computer.Get a Dslr dude its right tool for you believe me.
Which lenses do you have? since MASTAAAAA primes costs $25K (each of them for sure) they are not more expensive than epic..
just curious.
Click to expand...

Pointless dick-measuring at its finest. People that would rather discuss who has the better gear than just shut the hell up and use it.
 
A

apana

Member
starchild excalibur said:
I'm not sure I fully agree with a move to 48fps being progress. Those that prefer it seem to cite it as being a better representative of actuality, but in a medium where the goal isn't necessarily to represent the world as it literally is I don't know that it can be considered progress. Just as an homage to silent-era films shown at sub-24fps wouldn't be considered a step-back because of it's stylistic utilization. I'm certainly for filmmakers utilizing whatever framerate they think best serves the story, but just as I don't consider 3D a step forward in any way but technological, I can't really consider higher framerates anything else but that either. Maybe I'll feel differently after seeing the film though. *shrug*
Click to expand...

Yeah people acting like we have to change is strange. If 48 FPS comes in and people enjoy it then it is all good, directors can have it as an option but don't start the coronation before we even get a chance to really look at it in theaters. That being said I am very excited about 48 FPS in the Hobbit. I may be one of the few people who thinks a "video" look actually works better for some films/shows.
 
S

Sobriquet

Member
kemalettin said:
still wanna bet on less problems part dude? GAF is just a stupid gamers forums come to reduser we ll have nice chat.i have the same name on there :)
So you think you are smarter than epic owners because of you didnt get epic?waste money on features and 300fps? 5K? 4K 48fps? and so many features cant write now..
i bet you dont even have Redrocket card and debayering R3D footage for a week on your shitty computer.Get a Dslr dude its right tool for you believe me.
Which lenses do you have? since MASTAAAAA primes costs $25K (each of them for sure) they are not more expensive than epic..
just curious.
Click to expand...

Can you link to your IMDB? Maybe I've worked with you.
lol
 
M

Marty Chinn

Member
apana said:
Yeah people acting like we have to change is strange. If 48 FPS comes in and people enjoy it then it is all good, directors can have it as an option but don't start the coronation before we even get a chance to really look at it in theaters. That being said I am very excited about 48 FPS in the Hobbit. I may be one of the few people who thinks a "video" look actually works better for some films/shows.
Click to expand...

I agree with you but I bolded the important part. My concern is that they jump on the bandwagon to make everything 48fps because it's the current trend that draws money in. They do with 48fps with what they did with 3D. That is my concern in all this. I'm excited to see what it's like, but I'm in the firm belief there is a time and place for it and not everything should have that live video look to it. Conversely, not everything should be 24 or 30fps too. We've been in a position now where everything could be 60i or 60p on TV but haven't done it yet so hopefully the same remains true with movies.
 
R

Raistlin

Post Count: 9999
Marty Chinn said:
I agree with you but I bolded the important part. My concern is that they jump on the bandwagon to make everything 48fps because it's the current trend that draws money in. They do with 48fps with what they did with 3D. That is my concern in all this. I'm excited to see what it's like, but I'm in the firm belief there is a time and place for it and not everything should have that live video look to it. Conversely, not everything should be 24 or 30fps too. We've been in a position now where everything could be 60i or 60p on TV but haven't done it yet so hopefully the same remains true with movies.
Click to expand...

It might happen initially just like with 3D ... but I expect it will settle itself out soon enough
 
M

mcfrank

Member
Pretty sure this is Kemalettin's vimeo channel since it is his name and same Red shirt. Looks like a typical guy who buys a bunch of gear and has no idea what to do with it. People like that think "Oh if I just buy the right equipment, that will make me great filmmaker" when nothing could be farther from the truth.

http://vimeo.com/user3685592/videos

Apologies if it isn't him.
 
K

kemalettin

Banned
mcfrank said:
Pretty sure this is Kemalettin's vimeo channel since it is his name and same Red shirt. Looks like a typical guy who buys a bunch of gear and has no idea what to do with it. People like that think "Oh if I just buy the right equipment, that will make me great filmmaker" when nothing could be further from the truth.

http://vimeo.com/user3685592/videos

Apologies if it isn't him.
Click to expand...

busted! i bought these because wanted to be like peter jackson but now im shooting videos for vimeo :( poor me
 
J

jett

D-Member
kemalettin said:
still wanna bet on less problems part dude? GAF is just a stupid gamers forums come to reduser we ll have nice chat.i have the same name on there :)
So you think you are smarter than epic owners because of you didnt get epic?waste money on features and 300fps? 5K? 4K 48fps? and so many features cant write now..
i bet you dont even have Redrocket card and debayering R3D footage for a week on your shitty computer.Get a Dslr dude its right tool for you believe me.
Which lenses do you have? since MASTAAAAA primes costs $25K (each of them for sure) they are not more expensive than epic..
just curious.
Click to expand...

good lawd you're a douchebag
 
E

Eight Diagram Bat Fighter

Banned
kemalettin said:
still wanna bet on less problems part dude? GAF is just a stupid gamers forums come to reduser we ll have nice chat.i have the same name on there :)
So you think you are smarter than epic owners because of you didnt get epic?waste money on features and 300fps? 5K? 4K 48fps? and so many features cant write now..
i bet you dont even have Redrocket card and debayering R3D footage for a week on your shitty computer.Get a Dslr dude its right tool for you believe me.
Which lenses do you have? since MASTAAAAA primes costs $25K (each of them for sure) they are not more expensive than epic..
just curious.
Click to expand...

I'm on reduser. Where you think all the complaints about the epic are coming from?

No, I think I'm smarter for not wasting money on something I don't need. And after seeing your vimeo page I'm DEFINITELY smarter than you after seeing you wasting money on 3 epics when you obviously have no clue what you're doing. And no I don't have a red rocket because again, I don't need it. My computer is fast enough to render in 1/2 resolution very quickly, I'm good with what I have now.

Again, why are you here discussing crap that has nothing to do with the topic?
 
K

kemalettin

Banned
bluerei said:
I'm on reduser. Where you think all the complaints about the epic are coming from?

No, I think I'm smarter for not wasting money on something I don't need. And after seeing your vimeo page I'm DEFINITELY smarter than you after seeing you wasting money on 3 epics when you obviously have no clue what you're doing. And no I don't have a red rocket because again, I don't need it. My computer is fast enough to render in 1/2 resolution very quickly, I'm good with what I have now.

Again, why are you here discussing crap that has nothing to do with the topic?
Click to expand...

lol so much stupidity in here.how do you think i get these for vimeo and myself? do you upload every footage that you shot on vimeo? 2-3 weeks ago i worked with adriana lima and i rented epic.yeah this thread and lame gamers are hilarious
 
K

kemalettin

Banned
Marty Chinn said:
Hahaha, holy shit, wasn't he giving you shit for about not being able to afford things and then he admits he doesn't own it but rents? Holy crap!
Click to expand...

have you ever heard anything named rental company? you buy cameras and rent them..
oh god its enough i quit..enough trollin for myself...
 
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