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[Vamphuntr]

Xenoblade is no less linear than any Jrpg before it ( except the extremes like ff13)

Meaning that it isn't.. Now you can argue that wrpgs aren't because they have a totally different structure that's missing the point ...

Argue like you want , the game is not linear like pong ..that statement is dumb

A jrpgs doing jrpgs is hardly a problem or a reason for saying stupid things...

I already said the pong thing was a stretch and you even acknowledged it. I'm not sure I follow why you are bringing this again. In the very first line of my first reply I said his comparison was a stretch but I still thought it was a linear game then proceeded to explain why.

It's also not all JPRGs that are linear. There are also non linear JRPGs like some the SaGa games. In RS3 you can close the abyss gates in any way you want for instance. You're bringing the debate in an entirely different direction now.

And you're also in no postion to blame him for saying a stupid thing like the pong comparison while you were condescending with him saying no human being that understood the concept of logic would call the game linear. You can't ask for something you're not following yourself.

 

[stuminus3]

So, do you prefer non-linear gameplay or a strong story? Because you cannot have both, you know. There may be some well written episodes that are loosely put together in a story that is not linear but the story itself will never be as strong as a good linear one.

Sure you can.

Look at the Gothic games by Piranha Bytes. Let's say the story requires you to join a faction. You can join one of three factions, each of which will ultimately take you to the endgame in somewhat different ways. To join a faction, you need to complete a quest that's basically about completing 5 different other requests (say, get the approval from 5 different people to get into the faction). Each of those sub-quests has their own choices in how you complete them. You can complete them in any order you wish, sometimes with the outcome of one affecting how you complete the other. The "story" plays out pretty much the same regardless - your character joins a faction, the first step towards unravelling the next part of the plot. The story is exactly the same as if you linearly walked up to a dude and he said "join my faction Y/N?". The difference is how you get there.

Bethesda games don't really do things this way if that's what your idea of "non linear" is.

 

[Pachterballs]

Bg+e

Kindergarden Zelda. Ugly. Boring

Grimrock

Old school in a bad way

Skies of Arcadia

JusCombatt bad and unCombatplayable. Aggrava.. Combat

There a lot more but I can't remember more right now

 

[Coolwhip]

The first pages of the thread were interesting to read. Then the posts about the thread started to come. Can you guys stay on topic and post about games instead of discussing the need/point of the thread? Aren't there rules for staying on topic on GAF?

On topic:

Halo 1 and 2, Everyone was going crazy about these games, GAF too I'm sure. But I couldn't finish the singleplayer because of how boring it was and how lame the story was. Levels were repeated over and over. The actual gameplay was solid, but nothing special either. Not even compared to other FPS' in that era.

 

[sp3000]

Uncharted 2, although that's probably because the Naughty Dog fans on this forum are some of the worst I've seen

 

[PetrCobra]

Sure you can.

Look at the Gothic games by Piranha Bytes. Let's say the story requires you to join a faction. You can join one of three factions, each of which will ultimately take you to the endgame in somewhat different ways. To join a faction, you need to complete a quest that's basically about completing 5 different other requests (say, get the approval from 5 different people to get into the faction). Each of those sub-quests has their own choices in how you complete them. You can complete them in any order you wish, sometimes with the outcome of one affecting how you complete the other. The "story" plays out pretty much the same regardless - your character joins a faction, the first step towards unravelling the next part of the plot. The story is exactly the same as if you linearly walked up to a dude and he said "join my faction Y/N?". The difference is how you get there.

Bethesda games don't really do things this way if that's what your idea of "non linear" is.

Yeah, we probably don't agree on the meaning of the word "linear"... Edit: in case you think this was edited, it was

 

[R_thanatos]

I already said the pong thing was a stretch and you even acknowledged it. I'm not sure I follow why you are bringing this again. In the very first line of my first reply I said his comparison was a stretch but I still thought it was a linear game then proceeded to explain why.

It's also not all JPRGs that are linear. There are also non linear JRPGs like some the SaGa games. In RS3 you can close the abyss gates in any way you want for instance. You're bringing the debate in an entirely different direction now.

And you're also in no postion to blame him for saying a stupid thing like the pong comparison while you were condescending with him saying no human being that understood the concept of logic would call the game linear. You can't ask for something you're not following yourself.

Lol it's my fault , now ?

I'll tell you what , in Tales of symphonia, a Jrpg , you can visit the temples and get the summons in any order that you want ... this is mandatory to advance in the next event JUST LIKE YOUR RSG3 example..
But that doesn't means that the game isn't less linear than other rpgs .. Because you still have mandatory passages in the story ..

Xenoblades in the same veins have mandatory moments no less than most jrpgs of the genre but suddenly it make this game linear ...

I love your logic..
I realize that you're set of thinking that someone accustomed to wrpgs as the right to find xenoblade linear .. but that's not my point ...at this moment , why expect a wrpg model from a jrpg ?

The rest is totally your opinion ( and i don't care about that )

 

[Patriot2]

I've learned NEVER to trust gaf on game recommendations, you never know if some of the posters are just viral marketers who are trying to bullshit you..

 

[Beth Cyra]

I've learned NEVER to trust gaf on game recommendations, you never know if some of the posters are just viral marketers who are trying to bullshit you..

That seems a bit much.

Viral Markters get routed pretty fast and just reading a few posts from each person can generally tell you that their love for said game is usually pretty real.

Granted I don't agree with said love alot of the time, but it's still real.

Or at least I would like to believe this to be the case.

 

[nexen]

For those who hated the constant random encounters in Skies of Arcadia there is a one-shot group kill ability that the little girl (wtf was here name? been so long) has that makes them much less painful.

Not painless, mind you, but closer to tolerable.

One of my favorite JRPGs of all time but, yeah, lots of random encounters.

 

[Messofanego]

This is why there should be a demo for every game.

 

[Vamphuntr]

Lol it's my fault , now ?

I'll tell you what , in Tales of symphonia, a Jrpg , you can visit the temples and get the summons in any order that you want ... this is mandatory to advance in the next event JUST LIKE YOUR RSG3 example..
But that doesn't means that the game isn't less linear than other rpgs .. Because you still have mandatory passages in the story ..

Xenoblades in the same veins have mandatory moments no less than most jrpgs of the genre but suddenly it make this game linear ...

I love your logic..
I realize that you're set of thinking that someone accustomed to wrpgs as the right to find xenoblade linear .. but that's not my point ...at this moment , why expect a wrpg model from a jrpg ?

The rest is totally your opinion ( and i don't care about that )

I definitely agree that you have freedom in ToS for doing some mandatory story events. The only difference with RSG3 is that the whole game is pretty much about closing the abyss gates. It's a bit like SaGa frontier where one scenario simply revolves around acquiring all the magics in the game. As such the whole "game" for that scenario is basically doing all that in any order! I still can't agree that Xenoblade is remotely like that or something like AP, DAO, etc.

As for the expectation about the game. I can agree that it's generally unfair to expect a WRPG out of a RPG but sometimes the line can be blurred a bit. For instance Dragon's Dogma is a JRPG/ARPG and feel like a western one . With Xenoblade, I think it's fair that some people expected something more open when fans talked about "open areas" that you could explore. I have no issues with the linearity of the game like I said before but I personally know some people that expected it to be non linear because it had open areas and had an emphasis on exploration. Anyway this isn't what I was debating in the first place at all.

 

[Boney]

Batman AA.

One of the most dissapointing games I've played, it's not bad, but after the unanimous praise I expected it to be at least be good!

Boring combat, boring stealth, awful map design, game's pretty ugly and oh god the boss fights why

 

[R_thanatos]

RSG3 is the exception , not the rule ..we can continue this little game forever if you want as i will find many other examples ..

Besides the open areas are exactly that ..Open areas you're free to wonder as long as you want untill you want do the main quest to advance ...Again .. this is not the game fault but the player if he doesn't know ..

Bear in mind that i'm not thinking about you but the OP that you try to defend for idont-know-the-reason when the RPG categories are set for a long time.

Even dragon dogma that you quote is very japanese in his gameplay despite the western ( castle , ect ect ) setting .. It's heavily oriented action just like the old Japanese action rpgs.and he try some things like combos and chains ..

Then again it's not GAF fault that you fall into hype without even doing some research first..
There are plenty of nice OTs but i know what i want , what i love ..or not ..Saying it's GAF fault when it's a genuily good game to say that it's a good game when the only problem for you (them ) is something else is at best a vocal falsehood.

 

[shaowebb]

For me the two games I bought based on some stuff said on GAF that I really regretted were Alan Wake and Spiderman Shattered Dimensions.

Alan Wake was repetitive and the story was really "meh". Yes I know some folks got super into it and were so drawn in by the atmosphere, but the woods got old to me really quick and the writing was never anything you could say was mesmerizing. Especially given that pages you find give away plot points completely. They dont foreshadow they completely read out as the scene will be done later on. This meant I didn't even have any shocks to look forward too as the big reveal was never properly built up for these moments but was instead just randomly reached via a sheet of paper I'd find. Game basically became me bored trying to find coffee for the simple fact that I like coffee that much in real life to seek all of it I can in a game (not even joking about that).

Spiderman Shattered Dimensions was a huge let down on all fronts. Hold down a button to never get hit with spider sense dodging made my normal spiderman combat super dull and the webswinging in anything other than a full sandbox environment with him felt too constricting. Especially because unlike Bionic Commando YOU CAN NEVER LOOK OR AIM UP TO GAIN ALTITUDE WHILE SWINGING. This meant to climb vertical you had to reach the top of your arc and blindly shoot another web, but in a non sandbox world you often hit the walls and fell meaning you had to start over climbing. This meant lots and lots of blindly swinging in circles hoping to climb and given the camera problems it was often frustratingly irritating to me given I had just played Bionic Commando and knew how simply this could have been fixed.

In addition the god awful First Person QTE boss fights were so bad it was nauseating. Noir Spiderman was fun for stealth but it was glitchy as hell, Combat was at least good in 2099 but once again camera and enemy AI was too poor to make it all it should have been. It was a game with a lot of potential, but shoehorned QTE first person, bad camera, glitches, bad writing, restrictive level design and overall unrewarding mechanics that make combat feel too free and unrewardining made this game a FAST return. So terrible...but hey I guess you got to purchase outfits for Spiderman and play dressup.

I think games like these are why Gamefly is something I should look into.

 

[PetrCobra]

By the way, does GAF recommend Sonic 3?

If yes - you let me down, GAF. Such a rushed mess with totally crippled begining (remember escaping the bombs by holding right?) which starts to actually be interesting somewhere in its half and ends way too early. Good thing that S&K was so awesome. These two games put together almost made me forget 3's flaws.

 

[Beth Cyra]

By the way, does GAF recommend Sonic 3?

If yes - you let me down, GAF. Such a rushed mess with totally crippled begining (remember escaping the bombs by holding right?) which starts to actually be interesting somewhere in its half and ends way too early. Good thing that S&K was so awesome. These two games put together almost made me forget 3's flaws.

There are those on Gaf who swear by the fact Sonic 3 is better then S&K.

 

[Quick]

Deus Ex: Human Revolution. Read the positive reaction and reviews here, went and bought it, and it just frustrated me. Ended up trading it in for ME3 and MLB 12.

 

[PetrCobra]

There are those on Gaf who swear by the fact Sonic 3 is better then S&K.

 

[The Wheel of Fortune]

I've seen lots of people here compare Saint's Row 3 with Just Cause 2, and I bought it on that basis.
Really, it's nothing like Just Cause 2.

What? People compare those two? They both are open-world games but, that comparison is just wrong. Sad to see that you expected something else. Still, both are great games to me.

OT: That would be Catherine. I was expecting an engrossing game with gameplay similar to Pushmo but harder and more addictive and was disappointed.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Skyrim & Mass Effect

Seriously, these games could not be anymore overrated. Completely awful mechanics, shoddy production values, and tons of superficial filler designed to make you feel like having a choice matters when it doesn't.

 

[Abylim]

Sacred 2 is the only game I've regretted buying from GAF recommendations.
Horrible controls, horrible customization (lol) I could not play more than 2 hours.

I broke the disc fr Killer 7, but thats not GAF's fault. I played Killer 7 when it came out and hated it.

 

[Sydle]

Dragon Quest VIII -- I hate everything about it.

 

[Clear]

I love threads like this because they prove without a shadow of a doubt how futile it is to complain about games not being "good enough".

No matter how well received a game is by critics, the internet, the buying public someone, somewhere is going to have a problem with it. There is no pleasing everyone, it is an impossibility.

It just confirms my personal belief that as a game designer you should listen to the audience and their expectations, factor that into your plan and thinking, and then go off and make the game YOU want to make.

And no matter what, NEVER pussy out like Bioware did on ME3, and backpedal on your choices. Even if you fuck it up, take responsibility and OWN that fuckup. Stand by your work, defend it, and even if people think you're a cnut for doing it, they'll at least have to concede you have the courage of your convictions.

 

[FinKL]

Borderlands

GAF Said:

GUNS GUNS GUNS! + RPG CHARACTERS!!!

I Said:

I like Diablo + Counter-strike. Surely this is what I want!!!
I literally fell asleep going from point A to point B on one of the quests. Definitely not the game for me. Plus the weapons, to me, were not varied enough.

BTW S&K > Sonic3

 

[buhdeh]

Skyrim & Mass Effect

Seriously, these games could not be anymore overrated. Completely awful mechanics, shoddy production values, and tons of superficial filler designed to make you feel like having a choice matters when it doesn't.

Ok, gameplay is a matter of taste but shoddy production values? Are you joking? I don't even like Skyrim but production values are one area it definitely does not fall short in.

 

[Abylim]

I love threads like this because they prove without a shadow of a doubt how futile it is to complain about games not being "good enough".

No matter how well received a game is by critics, the internet, the buying public someone, somewhere is going to have a problem with it. There is no pleasing everyone, it is an impossibility.

It just confirms my personal belief that as a game designer you should listen to the audience and their expectations, factor that into your plan and thinking, and then go off and make the game YOU want to make.

And no matter what, NEVER pussy out like Bioware did on ME3, and backpedal on your choices. Even if you fuck it up, take responsibility and OWN that fuckup. Stand by your work, defend it, and even if people think you're a cnut for doing it, they'll at least have to concede you have the courage of your convictions.

So you want Bioware to stand by an ending that makes no sense? Not just a "bad" ending, but it went against everything Casy had said, pre release! "Nope, no endings A, B Or c in this game! you cant do fetch quests to get the galaxy to love you! You're choices have consequences! All lies.
It's not that the ending wasnt what the fans wanted. It's that it makes no fucking sense.
I will agree that not everyone will love even the most loved thing, but Bioware fucked up. And this isnt their first fuck up.

Anyway on topic: I just remembered Alpha Protocol. I did buy that because the OT was quite favorable, and people were saying it had awesome stealth and choice. I paid $22 AUD for my copy, and took it back the next day. Horrible HORRIBLE "combat" sure the dialogue options were different, but not good enough to make me want to continue.

 

[Reigan]

ITT: Casuals.

 

[KenOD]

Not that many I've purchased, but plenty of demos that just showed the games weren't for me. Mostly XBLA titles though, couple of Indy.

However I did fail for it once. Red Faction: Guerilla.

I love open world/city/island games, I'm a fan of destructible environments, I actually enjoyed the story universe they created for the franchise. Yet I play it and while yes it does have good destroying of buildings, it also has terrible swarming of enemies, no story worth a damn for me to care about, empty and barren ( yes I know it's Mars and a miner colony), and no fun way to travel or get around so I notice how long it takes and grow tired.

No amount of "but you can tear the building down however you want" will make up for being bored when most of the time I'm forced to run around or drive around or slowly jetpack around to get to the fun parts. A smaller world with more buildings, better enemy use and variety, and co-op for single player? That would have made a game that lived up to the hype and love I've seen here.

 

[Pancho]

TWEWY

I couldnt get behind the battle system.

 

[Kogepan]

Batman AA.

One of the most dissapointing games I've played, it's not bad, but after the unanimous praise I expected it to be at least be good!

Boring combat, boring stealth, awful map design, game's pretty ugly and oh god the boss fights why

Same...people were nominating it for Game of the Year over Uncharted 2 so I figured what the hell.

I felt it was very pedestrian, if it didn't have the Batman license I bet people would be giving it a 6/10.

Also, ICO/SOTC collection. Had to force myself to finish ICO, just couldn't understand wtf I had to save Yorda.....wanted to ditch her skinny ass and just gtfo. Couldn't bring myself to even start SOTC after that.

 

[Gravijah]

ITT: Casuals.

what time does the tournament start

 

[Ahasverus]

Mass Effect

 

[AlphaDragoon]

Xenoblade, linear? Does not compute. I'm not even halfway through the game and it has like 90 billion sidequests and quests requiring you to visit previous areas.

Final Fantasy XIII is linear. Xenoblade is not.

 

[Tashi]

For those who hated the constant random encounters in Skies of Arcadia there is a one-shot group kill ability that the little girl (wtf was here name? been so long) has that makes them much less painful.

Not painless, mind you, but closer to tolerable.

One of my favorite JRPGs of all time but, yeah, lots of random encounters.

Fina was it?

 

[rpmurphy]

Super Scribblenauts was disappointing in that there were so much I couldn't do or create in the game.

 

[Acrylic7]

Killzone 2

Sony Gaf said: Gif spam and game changer

Reality: The worst game I've actually played through from start to finish, this generation.

Play Multiplayer, you Fun avoiding weirdo.
you missed out bud

 

[entremet]

I like demon souls. It's just too damn long.

 

[ULTROS!]

I don't know if Demon's Souls counts for me. I got it before the hype and I hated it to bits.

 

[NeededSleep]

TWEWY defiantly
Yakuza games
SWTOR

But im happy i tried them.

 

[Robot Pants]

So you want Bioware to stand by an ending that makes no sense? Not just a "bad" ending, but it went against everything Casy had said, pre release! "Nope, no endings A, B Or c in this game! you cant do fetch quests to get the galaxy to love you! You're choices have consequences! All lies.
It's not that the ending wasnt what the fans wanted. It's that it makes no fucking sense.
I will agree that not everyone will love even the most loved thing, but Bioware fucked up. And this isnt their first fuck up.

I agree with Clear 100%. Bioware never should have given in. They should have stood by their ending no matter how terrible it was.

 

[Amir0x]

I don't know if Demon's Souls counts for me. I got it before the hype and I hated it to bits.

it's good you found out early in life that you can be factually wrong even without help from neoGAF

 

[ULTROS!]

it's good you found out early in life that you can be factually wrong even without help from neoGAF

Actually, before the hype a few GAF members recommended it, and I was desperate for RPGs that time so I dug in.

This was like back in June 2009.

 

[CadetMahoney]

Killzone 2

Sony Gaf said: Gif spam and game changer

Reality: The worst game I've actually played through from start to finish, this generation.

It was the biggest clue of Caveat Emptor if anything.

 

[trinest]

The Conduit.

 

[flintstryker]

Shadow of The Colossus I think the only thing I didn't hate about this game was the art style.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Ok, gameplay is a matter of taste but shoddy production values? Are you joking? I don't even like Skyrim but production values are one area it definitely does not fall short in.

The animations for the characters are laughable. It's like they've learned nothing for over a decade since morrowind. The way the story/characters are presented feels like an outdated late 90s PC title.

 

[Night_Trekker]

Here goes:

Radiant Historia.

I just could not get into it. First couple of hours are fun, but then every single battle starts feeling like a massive chore (random encounters take way too long), and you backtrack through the same environments over and over (and over). 10 or so hours in, I could just not be bothered to complete it. I get why some people are really into it and it's hilarious FFXIII-2 wholesale ripped off its time travel system, but I think this game has been a tad over-praised by Gaf.

RH is a tad overpraised. I love it and don't regret the purchase, but I agree that the battle system (which I don't think was as well-executed as it should have been) makes normal battles feel chore-like after a few hours. Especially when you're running into the same goddamn groups of enemies over and over again. What a stupid design choice in every RPG that does it.

This thread is awesome. Just goes to show that gamers are a much wider market than publishers think they are. Gives me hope for a future not dominated by any particular style of game.

Ladies and gents, that is making lemonade when life hands you lemons. I wish my first reaction had been that positive!

The animations for the characters are laughable. It's like they've learned nothing for over a decade since morrowind. The way the story/characters are presented feels like an outdated late 90s PC title.

Now that's just bullshit. Skyrim's animations are lightyears from the stiff, laughable garbage animations in Morrowind. Hell of a lot better than Oblivion's, too.

Skyrim is a step back from the earlier games in the ES series in many ways, but animation is not one of those ways.

 

[mickcenary]

Now that's just bullshit. Skyrim's animations are lightyears from the stiff, laughable garbage animations in Morrowind. Hell of a lot better than Oblivion's, too.

Skyrim is a step back from the earlier games in the ES series in many ways, but animation is not one of those ways.

Sure, but it's still some of the worst animation in existence. I guess that's what you get with RPGs.

 

[Pestilence11]

Alpha Protocol. To be fair I haven't given it much of a chance yet (30 mins or so) but that seemed enough.