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Epic knows PS4/NEXTXBOX specs - [Giving recommendations w/ commercial mindedness]
- Thread starter mocoworm
- Start date
Boombloxer
Member
The only problem is the console exclusives. You need at least 1 console depending on your tastes.
That only solves one problem, it won't stop developers from going out of business due to the astronomical rise in the cost to make their games.
All else equal, more power will let all devs do more than they could do with less power for the same investment. All devs will reach their highest potential with the better hardware.
"The problem" is when some devs can do a lot more than others with that box. Redefining competition at the high end.
Now, is that simply competition that is good for the overall standard, that gets me higher quality for my dollar, or should we be capping hardware so the 'highest potential' of dev A doesn't look as deficient next to dev B's?
Then the parts of the market that "don't work like that" will implode. And the whole process will be much more healthy afterwards. I still don't see the issue.
But this goes w/ the underlying assumption that graphical advancement is the only thing that can be made, which makes no sense. It's all about how the graphics are supposed to draw you in, while we're still stuck with the conventional controller scheme limiting how we affect the world that's being drawn with ever more realism. You'd have a far more profound effect on advancing games if a little more money's put into digesting Kinect/Wii/Move/etc control schemes, advancing that to another level, and providing experiences that can really change the way games are played out. Money just never goes in that direction because people have been taught to be solely fixated on visuals, and throw out everything else.
Extra graphical fidelity is great, but what really made this gen was the true rise of social integration into our consoles. I don't mind more graphical bling myself, but I do not think it'll convince a lot of people to switch over by itself.
Thunder Monkey
Banned
But then you get into an unending cycle of "Reduce! Develop! Fall under expectations. Reduce!"
I blame people that call themselves core gamers. Those with the gigantic backlogs of titles they'll never play, and only seem to be swayed by the biggest and best.
They be killing the industry with unsustainable expectations.
Well, if that happens there just isn't a market for those games. It's sad for the fans, but it wouldn't change regardless of hardware.
Oh, you're right, it wasn't Tim Sweeney, misread that.
But this doesn't change anything. It's not like there could be any other reasons for Epic to want manufacturers to go all out on power. They either want it because they think it's good for their business (which is most certainly is given all the money they get from licensing their engines) or because they think consumers want it, or both.
I'm just arguing that the first reason doesn't matter to anyone but Epic, and the second reason is more than questionable for both consumers at large and the survival of the industry.
We don't know what support is like at the moment do to NDAs and Nintendo not wanting anyone to talk until E3.
I do agree if Sony and Microsoft accept this many Japanese and smaller companies will have a choice to make if they have any type of self preservation as a business.
Maybe next generation, we will start to see tiered pricing instead of $60 games that reach bomba status in a couple weeks. Everybody went into this gen with standardized pricing and budgeted their development accordingly, but not everybody's willing to sink that much money for 5-hour games. Hopefully, developers as well as console manufacturers keep the lessons learned in this generation in mind for the next.
RPGCrazied
Member
Avatar like graphics? Are you serious? I don't want a $900 console. Hell I'm fine with my PS3. I do wish all games next gen have an option to be vsynced, to stop the tearing, then I'd be set.
IrishNinja
Member
this is absolutely how i read: they want to sell more engines, it made them a fuck-ton this gen.
don't get me wrong, i'm grateful the 360 got more RAM. but MS is banking on kinect crowd, and sony's struggling with the Vita - both got their lunch eaten by an underpowered box sold at a profit from day 1 (i believe), where's the incentive for them to put their neck out?
it's what a lot of us wanna hear, sure, but until the real problems of the industry's business model (constantly rising production costs with almost no new revenue streams, etc) are addressed, this isn't their best move.
clutch.as.it.gets.
Member
Yeah, i don`t get it too. Hopefully Epic is successful.
mclaren777
Member
I sure hope UE4-based games don't have a recognizable UE look to them.
Thunder Monkey
Banned
And then in a roundabout way I find myself agreeing with you.
Str0ngStyle
Member
And if Sony or Nintendo charges a subscription fee like MS does what would you be paying for? Love it or hate it, you know what you're getting with XBL
crazygambit
Member
That's sort of the point. Apple doesn't need you to buy every single refresh to keep making money out of you. If you have an iPad 1 you can still buy lots of software (of which they get a nifty 30%). Maybe you'll decide to update to the iPad 4. It's still very good for Apple.
Take the console makers on the other hand. If you don't upgrade to the new console relatively quickly they'll stop making money out of you, since releases for the old console will dry up (and are usually discounted).
There's a reason Apple is making money hands over fists while consoles are seeing significantly less business. I'm not saying this is the only reason (or even the biggest), but the business model certainly helps IMO.
Read the OP and came in to say that if true, I won't be buying PS4 or nextbox.
I want to be wowed, if not there are plenty of other things that I should be doing with my free-time. Just don't let my wife see this thread as she would love for me to give up gaming.
What I don't understand is why people think that a high-specced console will drive costs up. No-one is telling you to make a 50million pound game.
As has been stated just imagine if the 360 had arrived with that 256MB RAM ? Nextbox would have arrived in 2010.
I want to be wowed, if not there are plenty of other things that I should be doing with my free-time. Just don't let my wife see this thread as she would love for me to give up gaming.
What I don't understand is why people think that a high-specced console will drive costs up. No-one is telling you to make a 50million pound game.
As has been stated just imagine if the 360 had arrived with that 256MB RAM ? Nextbox would have arrived in 2010.
Both Sony and Microsoft will bow out of the console business if they listen to this garbage. Make games for PC if you want power. Let the consoles be affordable to middle class families like mine. Not everyone can afford a high end PC, that's why some buy consoles. Thank goodness Nintendo does it's own thing.
Thunder Monkey
Banned
On the flipside though, there's going to come a point where people will refuse to buy the next series of consoles because the changes are becoming harder and harder to ascertain. Given screens of UE4 show marginal improvement (still waiting on videos) I can see that change coming sooner than some would like.
Absolutely. I don't expect more than 2, maybe 3 future traditional console generations at most.
Vanillalite
Ask me about the GAF Notebook
To many people don't see this, but it's partly because the difference in power doesn't create immediately noticeable ZOMG LOOK AT THAT leap in terms of a quick glance between the new hardware and the old graphics wise.
On a pure numbers game that difference is there, and no it isn't close. Good devs will be able to put that difference to use even if it isn't OMG LOOK AT UE4.
Thunder Monkey
Banned
We both come to similar conclusions, but we have vastly different ways of looking at how to offset that impending reality.
I for one don't think consoles can compete, so they shouldn't try. Take their ball and go home. Do something different. Stop relying on a finite resource to spur interest and growth, because as this past generation has shown, it won't amount to much.
Nintendo had it right with the Wii, just started generations too early. The only way consoles can remain relevant is to make themselves unique. Because the truth is, you can game anywhere on anything now.
They can't compete with constantly changing hardware. They can only hope to make them necessary in other ways.
Lumination
'enry 'ollins
I don't mind this one bit. The better both consoles are, the more we as consumers win. The WiiU can be relegated as the "budget console" in terms of development costs, so low-budget gems won't disappear. If anything, the PSV and 3DS are powerful enough to pick up that slack if needed.
dacuk
Member
Fixed for the sad truth.
Sledge Hammer
Neo Member
This.
SapientWolf
Trucker Sexologist
No. Thanks, Epic.
Ubisoft have just said their plan for the next gen. Get more money from us. So, are you ready to pay more?
Don't worry you will pay 400$ upfront and 30$ each month.
Don't worry you will pay 400$ upfront and 30$ each month.
Rebel Leader
THE POWER OF BUTTERSCOTCH BOTTOMS
Honestly, cost isn't a real issue to me, but a high price could definitely hurt a new systems chances in the marketplace.
At the same time, it would be wise for them to listen to some of Epic's suggestions as Unreal Engine has been widely adopted this generation and will probably remain very popular. PS3 has battled with UE3 throughout its entire life and hopefully Sony realizes the important of catering to whatever Epic has up its sleeve.
They obviously can't afford to take a huge loss or risk on hardware, though, so it's a tough battle.
At the same time, it would be wise for them to listen to some of Epic's suggestions as Unreal Engine has been widely adopted this generation and will probably remain very popular. PS3 has battled with UE3 throughout its entire life and hopefully Sony realizes the important of catering to whatever Epic has up its sleeve.
They obviously can't afford to take a huge loss or risk on hardware, though, so it's a tough battle.
mugurumakensei
Member
You won't be spending an extra 100 bucks. You'll be spending 200 extra bucks. The kind of leap epic wants will result in $600-700 consoles.
HomerSimpson-Man
Member
I approve of this Epic. Bless you on your endeavors.
Thunder Monkey
Banned
They could get close to that and sell them for $499. That's the absolute top end the market expects. And even that is going to lead to slow adoption.
This. SONY is learning from the PS3's launch (I hope).
Micromegas
Member
Next-Gen has got to be a whole lot more than "graphics". GPU is one thing, but the next-gen consoles better up their game with CPU and RAM as well. Seriously. We need better CPU for next-gen AI, etc.
mugurumakensei
Member
CPU has not been the major limiter for AI since 2001. The problem with AI is still largely an academic one.
Thunder Monkey
Banned
AI is generally not limited by the processor, but the programmer. More cycles to do more is always helpful of course, but you'll still have idiotic AI standing out in the open being shot because the programmer was not up to snuff.
ThoughtsOfSpeaking
Banned
Id rather they lobby their engineers to make sure UE4 runs at 60fps as standard, even on weaker machines and then leave it to devs to decide if want to push the graphics further at the sacrifice of framerate.
clutch.as.it.gets.
Member
I fully agree.
CPU is not a hindrance to AI. I agree with more RAM though, but GPU is most important on a console.
I'd rather spend a bit more for the console if this next gen is going to last as long as the current gen personally. The PS3 and Xbox 360 can still have some good looking games but you can tell how much better they could be if the specs had been higher. I at least want next gen systems to be able to handle a solid frame rate without screen tearing and blurry textures popping in all over the place. Developers of AAA titles have had to do far too many tricks to make the games look as good as they are and you can tell. I'd much rather pay $500-600 for a new system that is going to be "Current gen" for 7+ years than buy a $300-400 system that will be under powered within 2 years.