Those Touch Generation days are over for Nintendo. That crowd has moved on to other devices. If they even want a piece of that market again they're going to have to release a new model. The current 3DS model is weirdly shaped, bulky and uncomfortable to use after 15 minutes.
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Bonus Round: E3 2012 Preview [Up: Part 5: Thrid Parties Again]
- Thread starter Shadowlink
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Those Touch Generation days are over for Nintendo. That crowd has moved on to other devices. If they even want a piece of that market again they're going to have to release a new model. The current 3DS model is weirdly shaped, bulky and uncomfortable to use after 15 minutes.
Saying RIGHT NOW that Sony is stealing hardcore handheld audience to Nintendo is...just stupid. There's no other word to describe this.
For the casual audience, it's a whole different thing: now, many of us ( myself included ) are pretty convinced 3DS won't do the same numbers as DS did, but between being like the DS and between like the...err, N64, there's an entirely different world. Certainly, Ninendo will probably do all its best to reach the most people possible, they won't surrender. Right now, we can just say 3DS will probably be "just" a great success for them, not a cultural phenomenon like DS or iOS right now. iOS is a cultural phenom now, not a fad like the Wii wasn't, it's attracting most of the casual audience which in the past would have selected Nintendo. Just, we don't know if this audience can accept to buy another device, a gaming specific one. Time ( and Iwata's moves ) will tell us what will happen, and it's going to be VERY interesting.
...But about the "hardcore" audience, right now...come on Pachter. Come. On.
For the casual audience, it's a whole different thing: now, many of us ( myself included ) are pretty convinced 3DS won't do the same numbers as DS did, but between being like the DS and between like the...err, N64, there's an entirely different world. Certainly, Ninendo will probably do all its best to reach the most people possible, they won't surrender. Right now, we can just say 3DS will probably be "just" a great success for them, not a cultural phenomenon like DS or iOS right now. iOS is a cultural phenom now, not a fad like the Wii wasn't, it's attracting most of the casual audience which in the past would have selected Nintendo. Just, we don't know if this audience can accept to buy another device, a gaming specific one. Time ( and Iwata's moves ) will tell us what will happen, and it's going to be VERY interesting.
...But about the "hardcore" audience, right now...come on Pachter. Come. On.
No offense but I quote this as an example of one the reasons used by people announcing 3DS will never hit the casual market like the DS. I mean, sure there're a lot of good casual games on smartphones but I think it' too soon to know if Nintendo will be able to replicate his DS results with this audience. Nintendo has yet to play his casual card: games. I'm one of those who think it's still possible for Nintendo to succeed on the casual market with the 3DS. At a DS level. It's unlikely but still possible.
Lol yeah thats totally how it went down. Don't make me dig up the reveal thread..it was terrible. It was mayhem, nobody could decide if it was a new console or just a controller. The console itself looked like a damn Wii.
The reveal was bad and Nintendo should('ve) feel bad.
The 3DS will almost certainly outsell the Vita, but success is usually determined by expectations. The PS3 is a success if you compare it to the GameCube and Xbox, but it failed to grow and caused large dips in market share. There is no console out there at this point that will cut into the 3DS's core gamer market, but iOS and other smart phone platforms are seemingly cutting into Nintendo's growth from last hardware cycle.
AceBandage
Banned
They showed games that obviously couldn't run on the Wii...
Well, I don't think you can ever know what his interests are on Bonus Round. It's not 'bias' in the way we usually think. The kinds of securities he might be involved with are unpredictable, as is the strategy for making a return.
shinobi602
Member
Did Pachter say they won't unveil the release date for Wii U at E3? Da hell? If it's coming out this year, how long will Nintendo wait lol?
Probably TGS.
Sindou_Hikaru20
Member
It's confirmed by Nintendo, no price or date @ e3^^
Maybe, but it likely costs less than $50 to actually manufacture (and possibly as low as $20). There was a cost estimate awhile back for this.
AceBandage
Banned
Well around then, but not at TGS. Nintendo doesn't really do TGS.
Nintendo can make that sort of software better than anyone when they do it right. It's why the DS was able to sell 8.5 million systems in 2010 even as Angry Birds was exploding in sales.
Didn't they go last year?
So are some smartphones. And seriously, isn't Android getting more and more marketshare than iOS? I'm sorry but I have an Android phone and games are mostly garbage, I really don't think that people are buying smartphones for gaming, especially on android.
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
Father_Brain said:
I can't see how anyone could argue that it isn't the perennial poster-child for the triumph of smartphone gaming myself. But the larger point I'm making is that is incredible success is due to the nature of its host platform as opposed to anything intrinsically world-shaking about it as a game.
Nope. Like the year before.
AceBandage
Banned
And the year before.
And the year before.
They've had minor presence there in the past (Iwata with his keynote, and some third parties showing off big exclusives for the DS), but they've never really been there themselves.
So obvious that nobody was really sure.
BTW I'm talking about the reveal only, the 5 minute clip they showed us, not everything that followed after.
Here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0Lc2y7M5rE
Refresh your memory on how terrible the reveal was.
edit:
Oh goodness that video is even worse than I remembered it..
shinobi602
Member
It's been a while so I might be out of the loop, do most console manufacturers wait until the last couple months before announcing the date the console comes out?
Seems foolish to me.
Seems foolish to me.
AceBandage
Banned
It's what Nintendo has done for pretty much every system they've released.
Still, I remember them revealing stuff about the Wii in September. Must have been some separate thing.
EmCeeGramr
Member
He mentions that it's a new system twice in the first minute.
It was a half-assed reveal, but not because they didn't clarify whether it was a console.
shinobi602
Member
Huh. I would think once you've solidified a release date and price, marketing could be a lot more effective. Guess I was wrong.
AceBandage
Banned
Yes, they have their own event like within a week of TGS.
You don't really need to start advertising a system more than a month out, especially around the holidays.
Father_Brain
Banned
I agree with the larger point; I just don't think that the literal meaning of "system-seller" is applicable to any one iOS or Android game.
But a Wii remote plus and nunchuk will set you back around £42-£45..and that's at discounted online prices...the rrp is around £55-£60 combined.
..add the costs of a 6.2 inch touchscreen, the two speakers,headphone socket, the streaming tech, the nfc tech, the magnetometer, the camera, the additional costs of shipping/storage due to its size, a fair sized rechargeable battery and a charging stand.
I'd expect a price of £69.95 - £79.95 in the UK....maybe more if the exchange rate with Europe is really volatile.
You are EXACTLY right. Pachter is just wrong on this point. You are not LOSING anyone to free to play cell phone games, those are people who would NEVER have bought a DS in the past either. The people who bought DS's and will buy 3DS's are kids (through their parents of course)! Maybe it will change in the future, but kids just don't have cell phones. Somehow that is one piece of parenting that parents these days have done a good job on.
Also, while it seems to make sense on the surface, there are not just two types of gamers, the "five minuters" and the "hardcore." Kids don't fit into either one of these categories.
Last time I checked GAF != the gaming media so I have no idea why bringing up an old GAF thread will counter my point that the gaming media should have known better. That is what they are paid to do. Also plenty realised they were talking about the new console because they paid attention rather than switching tabs to the GAF thread and missing half the details.
Yeah he calls it a system and then proceeds to show a video in which the controller is used as if it were a peripheral for existing Wii games.
Calling it a "system" is far from clarification either, especially from Nintendo.
GAF knew as much beforehand as the media did (cause y'know, GAF gets its information from the media) and there wasn't complete confidence as to what the WiiU actually was until the media confirmed.
Targeting the gaming media is silly. How were they to know that Nintendo would poorly reveal their new console with as little possible information?
EmCeeGramr
Member
Okay so when Nintendo announced that they were showing off a new system at E3 and then said "this is our new system" at E3, and showed games that couldn't be on their old system, they weren't being clear about whether it was a new system.
they barely showed the actual console in a background image. They could have done A LOT better in terms of not confusing the hell out of (regular, non-enthusiast) people.
You have to think how broad the audience is. The fact that you, me, and most of GAF got it doesnt mean it wasnt confusing.
You seem to believe that I'm the only one who has the opinion that Nintendo weren't clear on what they were revealing at E32011.
EmCeeGramr
Member
Not in the least. I'm just saying you weren't paying attention at all.
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
Father_Brain said:
Fair enough, but doesn't it suggest to you that there's something fundamentally wrong about interchangeably comparing the smartphone scene with the mobile-gaming one?
To be blunt, a mobile-gaming platform without "killer" system-selling software is dead in the water because without an enticing library to continuously attract/retain customers its basically valueless.
Smartphones on the other hand sell on the basis of intrinsic function and (street cred) peer-value, with the gaming "ecosystem" being just a value-add sort of thing.
Very, very different things imho.
Its just weird to me; gaming companies traditionally have always worked on the razors/razor-blades model - they aren't good at making money off of hardware. Yet Apple make huge profits off of hardware...
Long story short, these are two very different scenarios. What got me thinking along these lines was Pachter's assertion that Nintendo had lost 50% of their market - to which my gut reaction response was that they never really had that market in the first place, meaning that they had sales, but no "buy-in" to the consumer's mindset. i.e. people bought the product not because they thought it was a great, but because there was no real alternative to scratching that "keep the kids quiet in the back of the car while I'm driving" itch.
EmCeeGramr
Member
We were talking about professional journalists being confused.
Fantastical
Death Prophet
I was too until I just watched the trailer that shows what the controller can do, and it seemed like if you weren't really paying too much attention about what the Wii U was, you could get easily confused. They keep referencing "The New Controller", making it sound like only the controller is new.
I don't understand how any journalist could be confused over that reveal. It was well known that the console announcement was coming for months, and it was really obvious from the conference itself.
He had to doom Nintendo somehow to make up for all of the backpedaling he was doing.
He calls it a system right after announcing the name. And calls the controller the controller for WiiU. I was disappointed in the graphics of the demos they showed, but those were casual games and I hoped it was just a style they were going for. Then the video ended with Zelda HD and obviously Wii couldn't do that.
IAmtheFMan
Member
I like how Shane Satterfield called out Pachter on his 3DS stuff.
What does this even mean? Did Nintendo change the definition of system while I wasn't looking?
TheGreatMightyPoo
Banned
If I had to guess, if they sold the controller separately and it seems they will in some way, it'll be 60$-70$.
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
"Spin."
phosphor112
Banned
What's wrong with a 399 price tag? It's new hardware. Obviously nothing like a PS4/XB3 (which won't be out for another year or two). It has a costly (relative to the competition) controller... what do you expect? As he said, they made a loss, they need to recoup. I personally think it'll be 350, but that's still too high. But they won't go 300, they simply wont... Not unless they are skimping out more than we thought... I don't think they can afford that though.
Also, he's not saying they can't make games for the Wii U controller, he's saying what's the fucking point? COD players won't want to look at their screen for an airstrike. The don't want stupid menu items on their screen. That's too much time away from the main action and too much on the frills that just get in the way. That's what he's saying.
Considering they initially didn't show the box until.. maybe 5-8 minutes AFTER they showed the controller? Yeah. Their message was certainly confusing. It's funny that you completely downplay the screw up that Nintendo did. People got confused, news outlets got confused. The Wii you was BARELY shown in pictures during the presentation, and it wasn't fully clarified until the press release. Stop defending that.
What's the great benefit of resistive touch screen for a console? Precision?... for??... a single paint app?... or drawing weird faces on your Tekken characters?
An input device that reliably works even if your hands get sweaty during a stressful game.
Also, whether a touchscreen is resistive or capacitive has nothing to do with multitouch capabilities.
Metallix87
Member
I really think you're overestimating how much the Upad will cost to make.