TheGreatMightyPoo
Banned
I can't stop laughing at how Pachter says he hopes Nintendo does the right thing and makes it 250$.
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Bonus Round: E3 2012 Preview [Up: Part 5: Thrid Parties Again]
- Thread starter Shadowlink
- Start date
phosphor112
Banned
Oh come on. You've got to be shitting me. It's a little white box that is only slightly more rounded than the Wii. It looks practically like a Wii from that distance.
Lord_Byron28
Member
Wii u at 250 and 3ds at 300 makes sense to me. Lol.
My personal prediction is that Wii U will go for a 299-349 price range with me leaning towards 299. However we don't have full details on the system, os, online, packaged software, etc. Back at last e3 before 3ds price cut I estimated it could go for 349-399 price but I think nintendo is less arrogant about the price.
phosphor112
Banned
...so... lets ignore shipping costs, costs the brick and mortar stores have, logistics...
A PS3 controller is 55.
A 360 controller is 65 with a charge kit.
A Wii U controller with built in battery, a 6.2inch screen, microphone, Near Field Communication, speakers, headphone port and so on is supposed to cost around the same price?
Keep in mind they probably only plan on selling ONE EXTRA per console. So they are going to want to make profit on that.
Also the package is a lot bigger meaning less shipped per shipment.
Seriously now...
Resistive multi-touch is a lot more expensive. Nintendo wont want to take up the costs on that...
Also, most modern capacitive layers won't have trouble detecting input from wet OR dry hands. Hell. I can easily use anything metal (preferably nothing sharp) to be a "stylus" for a capacitive screen.
Black-Wind
Member
The Nintendo one was terrible.
They talk about the WiiU as if we know anything solid about it so far. And when did Nintendo say they're not gonna talk release date? I thought they only said that they're not gonna talk Price.
They talk about the WiiU as if we know anything solid about it so far. And when did Nintendo say they're not gonna talk release date? I thought they only said that they're not gonna talk Price.
EatinOlives
Member
You might want to lose your hindsight. It's EXTREMELY easy to watch the video again today knowing knowing everything we know now and specifically hunt out clues to things that suggested it was a new console at your leisure.
I still don't understand how nearly a year later people continue to say that reveal was fine. It was anything but. When the audience you're selling your new things to doesn't know what's going on, it's your fault for being unclear.
Nintendo officially said at the end of last month that it won't be announcing the price or release date for the console at E3. However, most of us expected as much given Nintendo's track record. In the past, I think only some consoles like the GameCube, PS3, and PS Vita had such details revealed at E3.
A far as the original Wii U unveiling goes, the graphics could have easily been mistaken for Wii's since the first trailer only showed footage based on Miis. The first obvious sign was when the Zelda tech demo appeared at the very end of the trailer.
phosphor112
Banned
It SHOULD have been obvious. The word "system" doesn't mean "console." Wii U controller can be integrated into the Wii as a "system." It didn't fucking help they should Wii level graphics up until the 5 minute mark when they showed LoZ footage that can't possibly run on the Wii.
Bolded for the blind.
They didn't show anything new or "next gen" up until 5 minutes into their presentation. At that point not only were the "game journalists" but COUNTLESS gaf posters absolutely perplexed at what the fuck was happening. The whole presentation was absolute shit. It was the absolute worst console reveal. You have to put your best foot forward when releasing a new product and frankly they didn't. They showed us Wii Sports and Wii Snipe Miyamoto.
phosphor112
Banned
Thank you!
I watched through the reveal just earlier and I didn't notice the "new console" in the footage because I was too busy being confused by seeing New SMB Wii on the screen.
Or maybe... the ones who did the horrible job were the ones that caused the confusion in the first place?
OH LOOK! That's CLEARLY THE NEW CONSOLE! CLEARLY! How can an someone get that wrong!?!? They MUST be stupid.
The fucking console is taking up less than 5% of the screen, NSMBWii is taking up the vast majority of it.
maquiladora
Member
The revisionist history on the reveal is pretty hilarious.
They talk about a 'new system' then talk about the controller, show the controller in the trailer, don't actually reference the new console and use phrases like 'play on the new controller' and 'use motion to control the new controller', etc. You could easily mistake it for a new controller because of the similar name to the Wii, and the fact that they tried to be so grandiose in their explanation of the new 'system' that they failed to state how it was a new console. A 'new system' could be many things, but a 'new console' can only be one thing.
Basically, the fact that they didn't say 'console' explicitly and focused so much on the controller could have easily confused anyone.
--
Regarding what Pachter said about the 3DS, he was right, but only to a certain extent. Yes, Nintendo is gonna have an issue matching the DS numbers, but I don't think that they're gonna be extremely worried about that. It's clear that mobile gaming has taken a huge chunk of the handheld space, so I feel like they'll be happy with putting up respectable numbers, even though it won't make it to or past the DS numbers. It's clearly having some issues gaining traction in the west though. But I guess that could be attributed to the anemic market in general in the west shrinking an already small handheld market, but it's still an issue they'll have to face. Japan is really being a life-vest for them, atm.
They talk about a 'new system' then talk about the controller, show the controller in the trailer, don't actually reference the new console and use phrases like 'play on the new controller' and 'use motion to control the new controller', etc. You could easily mistake it for a new controller because of the similar name to the Wii, and the fact that they tried to be so grandiose in their explanation of the new 'system' that they failed to state how it was a new console. A 'new system' could be many things, but a 'new console' can only be one thing.
Basically, the fact that they didn't say 'console' explicitly and focused so much on the controller could have easily confused anyone.
--
Regarding what Pachter said about the 3DS, he was right, but only to a certain extent. Yes, Nintendo is gonna have an issue matching the DS numbers, but I don't think that they're gonna be extremely worried about that. It's clear that mobile gaming has taken a huge chunk of the handheld space, so I feel like they'll be happy with putting up respectable numbers, even though it won't make it to or past the DS numbers. It's clearly having some issues gaining traction in the west though. But I guess that could be attributed to the anemic market in general in the west shrinking an already small handheld market, but it's still an issue they'll have to face. Japan is really being a life-vest for them, atm.
Bending_Unit_22
Member
Maybe they're deaf and had to rely entirely on the video like some here seem to be. Clearly Nintendo should have thought about all the deaf game journalists and gaffers out there who couldn't hear the frequent right off the bat statements that it was new console. Still a terrible reveal for anyone not really into video games though.
Even so I would make 2 further points. First, for a "professional" the reveal shouldn't have even been required, we knew for a month or 2 ahead of time that Nintendo was revealing a new console at E3. Any "professional" should have been aware of that very basic fact ahead of time. Second, as indicated by the scare quotes, on what basis can you call the vast majority of game journalists "professionals"?
Any gaming journalist or gaffer confused about whether it was a new console either 1) hadn't been on gaf or paid attention to video game press releases/rumors for about 2 months prior to E3, 2) is being obtuse for obtuseness sake or due to the company involved, or 3) has extreme difficulty putting 2 and 2 together (yes yes I know, Nintendo was going to release a new controller for the Wii 6 years after it came out, not a new system).
No doubt it was a bad reveal for the New York Times or CNN reporter, even though that is only a little less blame worthy, but the number of people into video games apparently fooled is a joke.
ZombiePlatypus
Member
Holy hell what was up with their take on the 3DS?! It was all smartphone-doom-n-gloom and then suggestions of actually not talking about (basically ignoring) the handheld at E3 cause it would somehow be a detriment to the WiiU? Insane.
phosphor112
Banned
Stopped reading there. There are 2 ways the crowd was confused.
The crowd really is stupid (as well as the majority of Gaf).
The message was bad.
Pick one.
Look, I think the "game journalists" suck. I think they are terrible excuses for "journalists," but you've got to be kidding me with all of this.
Metallix87
Member
$80 max. The thing costs under $50 to make, easily, and could possibly be as little as $20 to manufacture.
I don't see the Wii U selling well if it's $400. I personally would not buy one at that price. At $300, sure, that seems reasonable. $350 is the upper limit I'd say, but doesn't put the pressure on Sony and MS as much.
Gotta remember newer tech can = lower production costs too. It's not the best example but look at prices of RAM... DDR2 is way more expensive than DDR3.
Gotta remember newer tech can = lower production costs too. It's not the best example but look at prices of RAM... DDR2 is way more expensive than DDR3.
Bending_Unit_22
Member
Easy, both. The message was bad and not hard to see why it would confuse non-gamers. On the other hand, anyone who cares about video games enough to be on neogaf or a game journalist should have known before going in that a new system was being shown, should have paid attention to what was said, or been able to deduce the obvious so a strong case seems to be being made for the first option, well or obtuse as I put it.
ZombiePlatypus
Member
Yeah honestly I think they'd be making a massive mistake if they price at $400/$399 or higher. Casual market is not gonna wanna pay that, and core gamers are understandably a bit weary considering the last few years on the Wii.
I'm pretty sure I personally won't bite if it's above $250. $299/$300 and above is a definite deal breaker for me, unless they had something insane like a new Earthbound at launch or something.
phosphor112
Banned
So... their message was bad?... Then... why defend it? The message needs to cater to the common consumer when it regards to consumer products... Am I not correct?
Funny enough, it's the WiiU that I saw first. I shouted "ROUND EDGES!" to my friends while pointing and gesticulating at the same time. I thought it was a great reveal, and I had no confusions at all.
Mushroomer25
Member
Frankly, after they brought up the Vita, I almost expected somebody to bust out laughing.
Seriously, while the handheld market is shrinking - the Vita isn't posing a real threat. It's a non-issue.
Seriously, while the handheld market is shrinking - the Vita isn't posing a real threat. It's a non-issue.
Bending_Unit_22
Member
Also easy, because game journalists and gaffers aren't common consumers of video games.
I certainly dispute that it was a great reveal. I knew what it was, but then i'm into video games and was aware of it's existence over a month earlier (also paid attention to what was said, and could figure out Nintendo wasn't selling yet another new controller for the Wii 6 years later). My fiance, however, who is kind of into DS gaming asked me why they were showing some new Wii controller, where was the new system I had mentioned before.
Look, journalists and GAFers STILL didn't know if it was a console or a controller after the entire conference was over. They should have known for sure as soon as HD Zelda came on the first video if they missed Reggie saying it was a system and that the controller was the controller for the system. But then we did have a lot of people complaining that the footage from 360, PS3, and PC games looked worse than footage from 360, PS3, and PC games.
Ben Fritz: "And I also question are the third parties really... I mean, this controller is... I mean the Playstation 3 and XBox have essentially the same controller so you can make the same game pretty easily. This is a different controller. When people tried to port franchises to Wii it didn't work well for various reasons, but even though the graphics are the same it's not gonna control the same. There are already well established..."
::multiple people try to call him an idiot at once::
Ben Fritz: "It does, but it's big."
Pachter: "But it is kinda the same controller, but just on either side of the tablet screen, so..."
Ben Fritz: "I just don't see people playing CoD or Bioshock if it's the same game on the WiiU with most of those core gamers already have a 360 or PS3."
::multiple people try to call him an idiot at once::
Ben Fritz: "It does, but it's big."
Pachter: "But it is kinda the same controller, but just on either side of the tablet screen, so..."
Ben Fritz: "I just don't see people playing CoD or Bioshock if it's the same game on the WiiU with most of those core gamers already have a 360 or PS3."
MrGame&Watch
Member
I personally remember many people here being confused about the terrible reveal. Since I was following the rumors and how Nintendo would reveal a new system, the announcement made perfect sense. I was dumbfounded AT THE TIME of the reveal that people didn't get it, not now in retrospect.
I have an interesting theory as to why people on GAF and many of these game journalists had no idea. Most self described gamers don't follow what Nintendo does anymore or dont care. They're seen as outliers, especially after the Wii. So these game journalists and many on GAF probably had no context for this announcement.
I have an interesting theory as to why people on GAF and many of these game journalists had no idea. Most self described gamers don't follow what Nintendo does anymore or dont care. They're seen as outliers, especially after the Wii. So these game journalists and many on GAF probably had no context for this announcement.
Lord_Byron28
Member
Meh as stated above if you're on gaf or a gaming journalist then you should've known what it was. Every major gaming site was speculating on nintendos next console and most gaming sites had their own posted rumor about it. I can understand confusion for casual gamers or non dedicated gaming journalists but they mentioned the systems name and there were project cafe threads almost every day for a month before e3. Based on other reactions such as "it looks worse than 360" and people still convinced it was an add on after viewing the zelda demo were being obtuse.
It was still a bad reveal for many reasons but gafs reaction was ridiculous, imo.
disappeared
Banned
Nintendo has to come out swinging with the WiiU. I'm talking about dedicating 3/4 of the show to it. The console has had an identity crisis from day one, and it's up to nobody but Nintendo to rectify that. We should be getting a clear explanation on the console, the pad controller, online features, etc. If the console is still supposed to meet its 2012 launch date, we need to know what the fuck we're actually buying in ~6 months.
From the back-and-forth, decided to go ahead and watch the video. That Ben Fritz fellow is so uncomfortable talking in front of people. He's stuttering over himself and if you watch his hands when he talks, he's contorting his fingers in all sorts of ways. Combined with the general "closed" body language, and the guy just is not comfortable there, at all. As such, it's not too surprising that he's really down on any chance for the Wii U. Such a guy probably gets at least part of his "acceptance" by going with what most others are saying, and it's "cool" to bash Wii in the gaming space. Wii U/Nintendo, too. If the core really embrace the Wii U, then expect to see him doing a 180 on his viewpoint.
Adam Sessler has spent years on Xplay building up a disdain for Nintendo, so his more mild comments aren't so big.
Shane and Pachter are both saying that the PS360 will be supported for at least 2-3 more years, so they expect Wii U to get that "easy port" share, too, for that time. Not really a glowing review of its chances in the real "next-gen," but a relatively positive view compared to the rest.
Still watching, about half-way through, but it's not too bad for the first half, at least.
Edit:
Finished watching it, and it was pretty good overall, ignoring Ben Fritz, as discussed above. Can completely understand their 3DS concerns. Pachter saying that the consumer wanting a 5-minute fun experience is gone, makes perfect sense. That so short period is custom-made for phones that people will already have with them. I'm not sure it's a large a portion of the overall DS market as they try to make out (think they said about half and then down-played that with the bell curve, but I'd be surprised if it's more than 10-20% of the DS market, personally. Just random numbers to throw out, there. ), though. 3DS will not sell like DS. 30m fiscal years does seem quite unlikely for the 3DS going forward. It should still do very well, though. The "Sony chipping away" comment makes sense from Pachter, as he's been pretty more optimistic on Vita's chances than most Sales-Agers here. I personally think Vita will do much less to chip away at Nintendo's handheld market than PSP ever did, in which case Sony's "chipping" is on a big downturn. But it's at least a consistent position for him. Can respect that, if nothing else.
Adam Sessler has spent years on Xplay building up a disdain for Nintendo, so his more mild comments aren't so big.
Shane and Pachter are both saying that the PS360 will be supported for at least 2-3 more years, so they expect Wii U to get that "easy port" share, too, for that time. Not really a glowing review of its chances in the real "next-gen," but a relatively positive view compared to the rest.
Still watching, about half-way through, but it's not too bad for the first half, at least.
Edit:
Finished watching it, and it was pretty good overall, ignoring Ben Fritz, as discussed above. Can completely understand their 3DS concerns. Pachter saying that the consumer wanting a 5-minute fun experience is gone, makes perfect sense. That so short period is custom-made for phones that people will already have with them. I'm not sure it's a large a portion of the overall DS market as they try to make out (think they said about half and then down-played that with the bell curve, but I'd be surprised if it's more than 10-20% of the DS market, personally. Just random numbers to throw out, there.
), though. 3DS will not sell like DS. 30m fiscal years does seem quite unlikely for the 3DS going forward. It should still do very well, though. The "Sony chipping away" comment makes sense from Pachter, as he's been pretty more optimistic on Vita's chances than most Sales-Agers here. I personally think Vita will do much less to chip away at Nintendo's handheld market than PSP ever did, in which case Sony's "chipping" is on a big downturn. But it's at least a consistent position for him. Can respect that, if nothing else. Real talk. The Wii U reveal had to be the most underwhelming reveal of a new console ever. This year's show will be better no doubt, because they can only go up from last year. Hopefully though, Nintendo will really knock it out of the park like they did in 2006.
They showed shit tech demos showcasing Miis and Wii Sports-level graphics, and kept referring to the WiiU as "the new controller" instead of a new console. No, the WiiU reveal last year was a complete clusterfuck.
It is spin by Nintendo. In Japan, DS's monster 2 years is about to begin, and 3DS will fall behind it there. In the U.S., the DSLite explosion is unlikely to be replicated anytime soon, either. Therefore, Nintendo's saying that 3DS is outpacing DS is true, but only in the same sense that Sony was trumpeting PS3 outselling PS1 from launch. Both are true, but both greatly ignore the explosions NDS/PS1 had a couple of years in.
TheGreatMightyPoo
Banned
There may be evidence contrary to this but I don't even think Nintendo care that people were confused over the "reveal".
Maybe because of the backlash but I think they got through exactly what they wanted and that was the focus on the controller.
They knew that at a later point that they could truly reveal the system in its totality.
Maybe because of the backlash but I think they got through exactly what they wanted and that was the focus on the controller.
They knew that at a later point that they could truly reveal the system in its totality.
Guys. Let's not pretend there wasn't potential for confusion during the last E3. Nintendo fucked up. They handled it horribly, and whatever mistakes people made logically at the beginning of the reveal were only amplified as it continued. No one knew precisely what to expect. There had been so many rumors and discussions about potential handheld / console convergence in relation to the Nintendo, it's possible for people to see the controller and think, "So... the new system works in tandem with the Wii to expand upon its core abilities? And it looks like some freaky tablet controller. Okay."
Is this 100% rational? No. Is this something that could have been easily avoided by a better constructed reveal? Yes. When confusion occurs based on a message you attempted to communicate, it's more practical and useful to say, "Perhaps we should have handled that better." Blaming the audience is the same sort of stupid bullshit that Sony fans have been doing for years following the PS3's release and struggles.
Get over it. Nintendo screwed up. They cannot do that again.
Is this 100% rational? No. Is this something that could have been easily avoided by a better constructed reveal? Yes. When confusion occurs based on a message you attempted to communicate, it's more practical and useful to say, "Perhaps we should have handled that better." Blaming the audience is the same sort of stupid bullshit that Sony fans have been doing for years following the PS3's release and struggles.
Get over it. Nintendo screwed up. They cannot do that again.
Wrong, they called WiiU a new system and referred to the controller as "The controller for Wii U" and "The new controller". They didn't call the controller itself WiiU. The shit tech demos were mixed with HD games that could in no way possibly be done on Wii. Even if you give people the benefit of the doubt that they didn't hear Reggie call it a system or the wording was confusing, the first video ends with HD Zelda and the games montage is full of videos from PS3/360/PC versions of games. The reaction was crazy.
I'm sorry, but I have to butt in a little...not knowing that a "system" IS a console is pretty stupid. What the hell else have we used the word for?
To be fair, we've started using 'console' to refer to even handhelds this generation on occasion. Odd but true.
And folks, keep in mind that I'm not saying the response was rational. What I'm saying is that Nintendo demonstrated the Wii U in a fashion that invited confusion. Yes, the game reel should have clued people in, but still... it was a poorly structured reveal on many levels.
This is some revisionist history bullcrap going on in this thread. The message Nintendo was sending was mixed and confusing, and it wasn't just a handful of people going ZUH!? at what Nintendo showed. They kept flashing the words "NEW CONTROLLER" on their reveal video, while showing Wii Sports-level crap. It's idiotic.
Henry Jones Jr
Member
I actually just watched it for the first time. Wow was it awful. Yes he quickly calls it a "system" but then they proceed to only refer to the "new controller" and show case a bunch of Wii games being played on the controller and other Wii games enhanced by it. I can
But when has the term "system" been used like that in the gaming industry? I think the point that people are trying to make is that gaming journalists-who should've already been aware of the Cafe rumors-should've heard "new system" and realized what was going on.
phosphor112
Banned
"System" is such a broad word, and is used for COUNTLESS things. If they said "gaming system" that would make more sense, but they didn't.
The gaming reel didn't show anything until halfway point, in which they showed the LoZ HD footage. I think you've pointed this out already but they showed Mii's and Wii-like footage up until that point.
PSN is a system, XBL is a system. Network to be more precise, but it's a system. Kinect is a peripheral, but with the 360 it works as a system. A group of parts that work together to accomplish something.
The 3DS will not be as successful as the DS. Not close. But I think that has more to do with the 3DS's value proposition than it does what smartphones are doing.
Um... I think most people are aware of this. What's the point?