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[jetjevons]

More RAM, better GPU and a comparable CPU (At the least). It's more powerful just by the virtue of having about 1.5GB

Not to be a tool but is there actual confirmation of this from Nintendo? Whats the source of this info? I really really want it to be true (If im a fanboy of anything its Nintendo), but pretty much everything I saw at E3 seemed WAY below most current gen releases and nowhere near on par with suff like The Last of Us, GOW: Judgement, etc.

I so desperately want new Nintendo core brand titles that look better than current gen tech. NSMBU and Pikmin 3 just weren't the leap I was looking for.

 

[Diablos54]

Links? It's not that I don't believe you, but I don't. Lol! I kid. Still, I'm interested in seeing these numbers. Last I saw, iOS had taken over the mobile market in the US and it's probably doing pretty good worldwide.

I'm pretty sure NSMB alone has made more than iOS has, but I could be wrong there. The DS easily has, that's for sure.

Not to be a tool but is there actual confirmation of this from Nintendo? Whats the source of this info? I really really want it to be true (If im a fanboy of anything its Nintendo), but pretty much everything I saw at E3 seemed WAY below most current gen releases and nowhere near on par with suff like The Last of Us, GOW: Judgement, etc.

I so desperately want new Nintendo core brand titles that look better than current gen tech. NSMBU and Pikmin 3 just weren't the leap I was looking for.

Tool? Lol you're just asking, if anything the fact that you want confirmation makes you the opposite of a tool. A... Screw? I dunno what the opposite is.

Everything we know is from what we've heard from developers, as well as a few insiders here on GAF. Nintendo tells us nothing, damn them.

 

[Colonel Mustard]

Yes, really. You do realize that if Nintendo put some of their IPs on other platforms (Orbis, Durango, iOS, Android, etc) that they would make billions, right? Mario, Pokemon, Donkey Kong, Metroid? Those would sell hundreds of millions of units across all platforms and Nintendo wouldn't be burdened with having to sink money into R&D or manufacturing on hardware. They could just focus on their games since hardware clearly isn't their strong suit anymore. And that, in and of itself, would benefit gamers across the world.

I'm not going to argue from a fiscal standpoint. They may very well make more money.

Quality on the other hand would most definitely suffer. Nintendo historically designs their hardware around the games they want to make on it. There's no way to eliminate a core-philosophy like that and expect the same iconic output.

Some may feel it benefits them because they don't have to buy an addition piece of hardware but it doesn't benefit their core fanbase that wants to play their games at the highest level of quality--something that cannot be achieved without utilizing that tenet they've established and flourished under for 20+ years.

 

[Eight Diagram Bat Fighter]

I realized in the video of AC3 for wii u that frame rate and polycount was like ass compared to other versions. Half times doesn´t mean 0.5 x times?.

I saw it at e3 in person, looks just as good and smooth as the ps3 version. The ubisoft dev said they did not have to scale anything down when porting it to the Wii U.

 

[NEO0MJ]

especially since Reggie said we will be surprised by the value/price nintendo offers, read into that what ever you will though.

You know the Reggie is not to be trusted.

 

[test_account]

If the Wii were being judged solely on third-party industry support, it could easily be called a failure. With it having exclusive support of the highest selling console software publisher in the world, though, that changes the picture some. PSP has no such first-party ace-in-the-hole, so judging its overall software is essentially judging its third-party software. Even the better-than-before Japanese results don't compare to what the DS was doing pre-2010, though.

Oh, yeah. Context is key.

That is fair enough

 

[LCGeek]

It is speculation MrNyarlathotep, but with a high probability of becoming fact.

And the Dreamcast comparison should stop, because WiiU is not even close. DreamCast steam rolled the competition, if WiiU software presented such a marked spec in relation to this generation this discussion wouldn't even exist.

What competition?

As I remember dreamcast accurately rendered arcaded titles sega wanted in console space and eventually got gutted by the PS2 once devs got use to the power in it. People love to compare Dc to psx and n64 but it came in the middle of a generation and was based on arcade hardware.

 

[MrNyarlathotep]

first time I saw that comparison but its looking ok to me...

http://nintendoeverything.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/batman_arkham_city_wii_u_ps3_comparison.jpg

I hadn't seen that comparison either, but the WiiU shots look definitely worse; no self-shadowing, reduced draw distance detail and what look like worse textures.

Having said that, that PS3 shot looks like a bullshot.

The thing that made the PS2 so successful was the hundreds of great first party games on it plus huge support from 3rd party devs so yeah. I've got a idea which way WiiU will go.

In it's first year???

Links? It's not that I don't believe you, but I don't. Lol! I kid. Still, I'm interested in seeing these numbers. Last I saw, iOS/Droid had taken over the mobile market in the US and it's probably doing pretty good worldwide.

Any "nintendo should be on iOS" thread; I'm pretty sure those revenue charts are excluding Nintendos hardware revenues.

 

[v1oz]

Their position is that the exact specs don't matter, but rather the games. They're correct on some level, but if the specs keep the games from coming to the system, at all, or force the games into a twisted form (e.g. Dead Rising Wii), then the specs do matter.

True that. Its a flawed position from Nintendo. How many hardcore car enthusiasts would buy a car if they didn't know its performance?

And yeah third party ports are a major issue. You can't appeal to hardcore gamers without competitive hardware. I'd prefer to only have one game system, instead of having a WiiU and then buying something else for third party AAA games. When I was a kid you either had a SNES or a Genesis, they're weren't too many people with both.

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

True, but a 299 WiiU is then poised for pricecuts against newcomers, and being a year into it's life is also more likely to start bringing out the big guns (The Mario Karts, the Metroids, the Zeldas) to spoil their launches.

A 199 WiiU with a Zelda / Metroid / Mario Kart vs a 399 "twice as good" competitor at xmas 2013 is a tougher proposition sell.

Without knowing prices, launch dates and strategies from all manufacturers, it is really impossible to make any informed speculation about how next gen will play out.
Won't stop GAF trying though.

It will only be an attractive proposition if there are a lot of games people want to play, and if it doesn't get picked up by third parties once the other consoles start to launch, it's in for a shit time. I'm utterly terrified of a repeat of the Wii's third party support, even though the technical situation isn't exactly analogous. On the other hand, it doesn't have nearly as much hype or marketability going for it as the Wii did in 2006, so...

 

[Gamer @ Heart]

Yes, really. You do realize that if Nintendo put some of their IPs on other platforms (Orbis, Durango, iOS, Android, etc) that they would make billions, right? Mario, Pokemon, Donkey Kong, Metroid? Those would sell hundreds of millions of units across all platforms and Nintendo wouldn't be burdened with having to sink money into R&D or manufacturing on hardware. They could just focus on their games since hardware clearly isn't their strong suit anymore. And that, in and of itself, would benefit gamers across the world.

That is a silly argument that can be made for any of the three. Only the one you are making it about has actually made significantly more profit on their hardware combo in the past 10 years.

 

[test_account]

Considering the supposed specs, shouldn't this put nintendo in a good position to lower the price considerably when the ps4/720 launch. I would imagine nintendo would be more aggressive with price, especially since Reggie said we will be surprised by the value/price nintendo offers, read into that what ever you will though.

Reggie has been very precise to point out the difference between price and value when he has been asked about how much the WiiU will cost in comparison to PS3/Xbox 360.

Value is pretty much a subjective thing. Even the PS3 at $599 was concidered as being a good value to many people. So it is hard to judge the price itself from Reggie's comments on this.


EDIT: Speaking about the price, personally i dont think that it matters that much. I mean, a console is something that i'm likely to use for 4-5 years, if not even more. If the price is $300 or $400, that 100-dollar extra doesnt really matter much when i'm talking use for 4-5 years.

 

[Eight Diagram Bat Fighter]

After reading a few of these comments, one thing people here need to learn early on, is that videos are horrible representations of how the game looks like on the actual system. Any aliasing or artifacts you 'may' see for the most part aren't really there.

 

[Chaplain]

I saw it at e3 in person, looks just as good and smooth as the ps3 version.

I also saw it at E3 and the frame rate tanked just like it did on the PS3 version (in some areas).

 

[Good Job Bob]

Another Nintendo console that's laughably underpowered.

Can't wait until Sony and MS deliver the real next gen consoles and blow this out of the water.

 

[tkscz]

Their position is that the exact specs don't matter, but rather the games. They're correct on some level, but if the specs keep the games from coming to the system, at all, or force the games into a twisted form (e.g. Dead Rising Wii), then the specs do matter.

Not this coming gen. Again, Nintendo played it smart on the type of shaders the WiiU will support. By supporting compute shaders, the WiiU will support most of the features the other two console do, be it to a lesser extent. The Wii on the other hand, didn't support programmable shaders what so ever, this made down-porting a bitch to do.

 

[Refreshment.01]

What competition?

PS4 and Xbox Next.

As I remember dreamcast accurately rendered arcaded titles sega wanted in console space and eventually got gutted by the PS2 once devs got use to the power in it. People love to compare Dc to psx and n64 but it came in the middle of a generation and was based on arcade hardware.

Or where you talking about DreamCast? I don't understand your post well and i don't even know exactly what's your point.

To explain myself, im just saying that the DreamCast had a very marked graphical prowess in comparison to existing consoles of the competition. A DreamCast game like Sonic or Soul Calibur wouldn't be compared to a N64 or PSX game. So it's kind of unfair comparison to the DreamCast.

 

[Death Dealer]

So like ca. 2006 era technology (GPU-wise)?

Well I think the first rumor was HD 4000 tech which is circa 2008. But if it's only 1.5 x current generation, it must be a severely crippled/stripped down model. Because the higher end HD 4000 PC cards were, I think, at least 4x faster than X360/PS3 generation GPUs. So low mid range part I guess ? Or it could be one of the budget level GPUs from a newer series ? I don't know, I've heard even the mainstream latest AMD APU's are 2-3x as powerful as RSX/Xenos, so Wii-U must have an old or really small GPU.

But I heard it will only cost $250 at launch, so I think they are trying for a Wii repeat. Push the early mass market appeal. Except even though Wii-U is going to be outclassed again, it should have pretty nice graphics. 1.5x this generation with over a GB of ram should yield nice results for the types of games Nintendo makes. Look at what Santa Monica / Naughty Dog have done with the presumably weaker, and more difficult to program PS3. Wii-U's graphics will depend on the amount of effort developers put into it, except for stuff like UE4, the hw isn't going to hold it back as much as Wii did this generation.

 

[Eight Diagram Bat Fighter]

I also saw it at E3 and the frame rate tanked just like it did on the PS3 version (in some areas).

Hmm, didn't see that when I played it. Pretty weird.

 

[Good Job Bob]

With crappy hardware specs like this, they should probably be able to push it out at $250.

 

[Van Owen]

I hadn't seen that comparison either, but the WiiU shots look definitely worse; no self-shadowing, reduced draw distance detail and what look like worse

IIRC, the Joker shot is FMV in all versions anyway...

 

[VashTS]

great! And guess what that half of a gpu will be going to...that's right!! It will be used to render polys on the WiiU controller!! So nintendo is still going to be generation behind!!

 

[jmdajr]

It is speculation MrNyarlathotep, but with a high probability of becoming fact.

And the Dreamcast comparison should stop, because WiiU is not even close. DreamCast steam rolled the competition, if WiiU software presented such a marked spec in relation to this generation this discussion wouldn't even exist.

The moment I played Soul Caliber on Dreamcast launch day just blew me away. I felt the impact immediately. There is no way this could have been done on the PS1 or N64. What a leap I thought.

Graphically speaking the Wii and now the WiiU never made me feel this way. I have never once thought, "There is no way this can't be done on Xbox360 (visually)"

Don't you miss having that sort of impact from the big N? Can't do shit about it though.

 

[Chaplain]

Hmm, didn't see that when I played it. Pretty weird.

The Ubisoft rep, who knew a lot, said the game was a direct port of either the 360 or PS3 code. Meaning, the Wii U version does not take advantage of the extra gig of ram or the GPU.

 

[tkscz]

The CPU is not 1X Xbox360.
The results of specific benchmarks, engines, middleware, could be. But developers have (or will with further optimizations) more processing capabilities than on Xbox360 (and not only thanks to the audio DSP, I/O chip, etc.).

BUT it seems it won't reach a leap comparable to the RAM amount. A moderate advancement, a lot from efficiency (out of order, instructions, cache, etc, i touched upon that before)

For the GPU, it won't be 1,5X Xbox360 when developers will be more accustomed to its specifics, when the SDK, middleware, engines, API, and other elements will be, again, more refined, etc.

I wonder how many people will read this.

The Ubisoft rep, who knew a lot, said the game was a direct port of either the 360 or PS3 code. Meaning, the Wii U version does not take advantage of the extra gig of ram or the GPU.

*Looks at IdeaMan's post again*

That would mean that any of the shaders that the WiiU supports went unused, the DSP went unused, the I/O processor went unused. Everything that pushes the WiiU above what was said goes unused. This should answer a lot.

 

[jetjevons]

With crappy hardware specs like this, they should probably be able to push it out at $250.

But we don't HAVE specs yet, right? How on earth can you make this speculation? This just comes across as trolling.

 

[LCGeek]

PS4 and Xbox Next.

Or where you talking about DreamCast? I don't understand your post well and i don't even know exactly what's your point.

To explain myself, im just saying that the DreamCast had a very marked graphical prowess in comparison to existing consoles of the competition. A DreamCast game like Sonic or Soul Calibur wouldn't be compared to a N64 or PSX game. So it's kind of unfair comparison to the DreamCast.

My point was about DC competition which was non existent considering the psx generation was unwinding as it came out.

The dreamcast came in between two solid generations of progress and was based off arcade hardware. The idea it was competition with far more simple 3d hardware is a joke when it was made to get ahead of sony and the ps2 which didn't work out so well.

 

[Instro]

Shit job on Nintendo's part by allowing this to happen in the first place btw. No specs and no games that take advantage of the system shown means that this kind of talk will continue until something impressive is released or they get downports from the PS4/720.

 

[jmdajr]

But we don't HAVE specs yet, right? How on earth can you make this speculation? This just comes across as trolling.

They are hiding the specs because they are so awesome we wouldn't know what to do with ourselves once we saw them.

Same game played with the Wii. But if people want to keep their hopes up, it's their business.

It's best to take this situation as cup half empty. It's better in the long run.

 

[2+2=5]

Wiiu's power have to be shared with the tablet right?
Mine are only speculations but if as i think the tablet have no processing power, wiiu is probaly a ps360 capable of a second screen.
-Its cpu is comparable to the ps360 one(whatever it means) but it has to manage the main game and what happens in the tablet = comparable or less cpu for the main game respect to ps360.
-gpu is 1.5 times better than ps360 ones, but the number of total pixels is higher too. We have to consider that an interface on the tablet is not gpu heavy, so a performance gain is possible.
-ram is 3 times the ps360 ones but wiiu has to manage: a buffer for a continous video streaming + what happens on the tv screen + what happens on the tablet, main game will probably able to use more than 512 mb of ram, but nothing near 1.5 gb imo.

 

[Log4Girlz]

I wonder how many people will read this.



*Looks at IdeaMan's post again*

That would mean that any of the shaders that the WiiU supports went unused, the DSP went unused, the I/O processor went unused. Everything that pushes the WiiU above what was said goes unused. This should answer a lot.

I would laugh so hard if it was the worst looking version. Sigh, I just hope they are on par at this point.

 

[Boss Man]

So, in 2014, is Wii U going to end up being closer to PS3 or PS4 I wonder?

 

[raven777]

Whether I get Wii U or not will depend on 3rd party support from Japan. If its like Wii, then there is no way I am getting it.

 

[OryoN]

I don't understand where all this Wii U negativity(concerning it's capabilities) is coming from. Sure, there were no high-production-value games that just completely blew this current gen out of the water, but that's to be expected from low-risk launch games. Given what we've been shown, there are at least some "hints" as to what having more modern tech can offer, regardless of it's overall brute power.

To me, it's baffling that others can't see those "hints". Even some of the very simpliest of Wii U games display an image quality and rendering ability that I just don't see in PS360 games. I'm not talking size & scope of the games and their overall "wow" factor. I'm referring to things like: colors more vibrant, distant textures more visible, lighting more natural, way better transparencies, much higher quality DOF and motion blur - things that naturally evolve due to more modern tech.

I don't know about you guys, but that's something that immediately stood out for me(ie: IQ/rendering capability), and that has me excited to see what will happen when developer combine that rendering capability with higher production value. I expect to be impressed by Wii U along the way, regardless of where it sits on a paper-spec-chart.

 

[KageMaru]

There is no way the CPU is just as powerful as the PS360's CPUs, they are dreadfully slow by today's standards.

Not this coming gen. Again, Nintendo played it smart on the type of shaders the WiiU will support. By supporting compute shaders, the WiiU will support most of the features the other two console do, be it to a lesser extent. The Wii on the other hand, didn't support programmable shaders what so ever, this made down-porting a bitch to do.

You can't cherry pick one aspect of a system and think everything is going to be hunky dory.

 

[tkscz]

I would laugh so hard if it was the worst looking version. Sigh, I just hope they are on par at this point.

Actually that could very well be the scenario. Again, the WiiU's CPU and GPU has elements that put it well above this gen, but with ports, those elements go COMPLETELY unused, and instead devs try using the WiiU the way they used the 360/PS3, which , iirc, has bottlenecking issues. This would force the WiiU's CPU to be used on more than what it should be use on, the GPU to go unused, and the most of the RAM to be ignored, making the game run worse than it would on the 360/PS3.

 

[MrNyarlathotep]

great! And guess what that half of a gpu will be going to...that's right!! It will be used to render polys on the WiiU controller!! So nintendo is still going to be generation behind!!

So what you're saying is every multiplatform game that doesn't use the WiiU controller for anything more than a 2D interface gets to 'untap' all that power without a problem.

 

[v1oz]

I don't understand where all this Wii U negativity(concerning it's capabilities) is coming from. Sure, there were no high-production-value games that just completely blew this current gen out of the water, but that's to be expected from low-risk launch games. Given what we've been shown, there are at least some "hints" as to what having more modern tech can offer, regardless of it's overall brute power.

To me, it's baffling that others can't see those "hints". Even some of the very simpliest of Wii U games display an image quality and rendering ability that I just don't see in PS360 games. I'm not talking size & scope of the games and their overall "wow" factor. I'm referring to things like: colors more vibrant, distant textures more visible, lighting more natural, way better transparencies, much higher quality DOF and motion blur - things that naturally evolve due to more modern tech.

I don't know about you guys, but that's something that immediately stood out for me(ie: IQ/rendering capability), and that has me excited to see what will happen when developer combine that rendering capability with higher production value. I expect to be impressed by Wii U along the way, regardless of where it sits on a paper-spec-chart.

Personally I didn't see any of the above. Did you have any screen shots or videos from games showing this? I expected to at least see better textures and IQ.

 

[Death Dealer]

So, in 2014, is Wii U going to end up being closer to PS3 or PS4 I wonder?

If the rumors are true, PS3 unquestionably.

I mean I think a realistic target for 2014 would be for the second wave of Wii-U games to start approaching/exceeding the best PS3 game graphics. At 1.5x this generation's GPU, it's not going to hold a candle to the other next gen systems in terms of face melting graphics.

 

[Colonel Mustard]

So, in 2014, is Wii U going to end up being closer to PS3 or PS4 I wonder?

Both.

 

[KageMaru]

Actually that could very well be the scenario. Again, the WiiU's CPU and GPU has elements that put it well above this gen, but with ports, those elements go COMPLETELY unused, and instead devs try using the WiiU the way they used the 360/PS3, which , iirc, has bottlenecking issues. This would force the WiiU's CPU to be used on more than what it should be use on, the GPU to go unused, and the most of the RAM to be ignored, making the game run worse than it would on the 360/PS3.

You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about, so why keep doing this?

Do you honestly believe RAM will go unused?

There isn't a facepalm picture big enough for this.

 

[beril]

Links? It's not that I don't believe you, but I don't. Lol! I kid. Still, I'm interested in seeing these numbers. Last I saw, iOS/Droid had taken over the mobile market in the US and it's probably doing pretty good worldwide.

Last July the total appstore revenue was at 3.6B USD, roughly speaking that's the same as 100 million DS games, which is just about as much as the top 5 games combined; total software sales is at over 900 million. They've also sold 45 million 3DS games so far so that's bound to catch up with iOS revenue pretty quickly as well.

 

[tkscz]

There is no way the CPU is just as powerful as the PS360's CPUs, they are dreadfully slow by today's standards.



You can't cherry pick one aspect of a system and think everything is going to be hunky dory.

That's correct, but Nintendo built the WiiU wisely if you think about it. By having so much hardware take the pressure of the CPU, it's CPU can process a lot more than this gen, but probably not as much as the other next gen consoles, so the physics will come down. Draw distance will be lowered due to less RAM and there are other factors. My point is that it will be much easier thanks to better shader ability.

You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about, so why keep doing this?

Do you honestly believe RAM will go unused?

There isn't a facepalm picture big enough for this.

You're correct, I don't have 100% idea of what I"m saying, just going off of what I know and what I hear. Being an ass is no way to answer this.

 

[Van Owen]

Why did PS2 ports on Xbox always run and look better? Shouldn't it be that way for 360 to Wii U?

Exocet MGS2.

 

[ReBurn]

If the rumors are true, PS3 unquestionably.

I mean I think a realistic target for 2014 would be for the second wave of Wii-U games to start approaching/exceeding the best PS3 game graphics. At 1.5x this generation's GPU, it's not going to hold a candle to the other next gen systems in terms of face melting graphics.

This assumes an evolutionary leap in console graphics with the next go-around, doesn't it?

 

[Penguin]

I have two taps. One is small but is opened all the way. The other is slightly larger but is only half turned on. Which tap is delivering more water.

Extra credit question. Which tap is more like WiiU.

Been trying to wrap my head around this analogy...

And I just don't get it...

Are we assuming that both taps have equal water pressure...

 

[v1oz]

Why did PS2 ports on Xbox always run and look better? Shouldn't it be that way for 360 to Wii U?

Exocet MGS2.

The Burnout games ran better on PS2. The Xbox lost out on the particle effects.

 

[Forsaken82]

I hadn't seen that comparison either, but the WiiU shots look definitely worse; no self-shadowing, reduced draw distance detail and what look like worse textures.

Don't agree with this at all. The draw distances appear reduced because of the different camera angle that is aimed up towards tall skyscrapers (at a different location than the PS3 no less) on the Wii U, and a straight on shot of Batman (in what looks like a reskinned suit) so its hard to confirm whether shadow techniques are done differently or not. You have a bright ass light shined directly at a far more reflective batsuit texture.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

You're correct, I don't have 100% idea of what I"m saying, just going off of what I know and what I hear. Being an ass is no way to answer this.

That's not Kage being an ass.

Kage can show you being an ass, but right now he's being polite.

With that RAM amount texturing will be better than PS3/360 if they made better textures or take the time to use them. There's no question on that.

 

[tkscz]

That's not Kage being an ass.

Kage can show you being an ass, but right now he's being polite.

With that RAM amount texturing will be better than PS3/360 if they made better textures or take the time to use them.

LINKS, LINKS I SAY. I want to see this.