Carnby
Member
save me ghost cowboy
Mad Dog McCree collection confirmed.
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Rumor: Leaked document detailing MS future plans for the Xbox line. 56 pages long.
- Thread starter bgassassin
- Start date
Mad Dog McCree collection confirmed.
SMT
this show is not Breaking Bad why is it not Breaking Bad? it should be Breaking Bad dammit Breaking Bad
This shit is definitely fake, the Next-Box uses DirectX 12 lol, what is this bullshit? I know one of the engineers on the project, this is FAKE.
Yes, the upcoming Windows will use 11.1 temporarily, but not the Next-box.
Yes, the upcoming Windows will use 11.1 temporarily, but not the Next-box.
6 times x360 that is 1.5 tflop. That kind of power is more than enough to play 720p 30fps games in unreal4 engine.
snoopeasystreet
Member
Activision called it 720 in the bungie leak. It won't end up being called that but it's definitely a word the industry use.
R
Rösti
Unconfirmed Member
This is one of the least professional documents I've seen in ages, and I deal with tons of financial reports etc. every day. Some things that make this document look fishy:
- The diversity of resolution in images. Especially on page 4, if you compare the Xbox 360 image with the Kinect image, you see a clear difference. For material that should be readily available for Microsoft, you'd expect that all images would at least be of the same resolution, even if the document is marked "draft".
- The lack of vector logotypes. I know that the document is made in Microsoft Powerpoint 2010, but even in that program there's no need to rasterize logo images of such dimensions as displayed in this document. In most documents supplied by Microsoft, logotypes are in vector format (with eventual masks on, both the current Xbox 360 logo and the Xbox LIVE logo feature masks). Also, other logos (such as the Blu-ray logo) is in such low quality it could be difficult to see what it is on a big screen. Furthermore, many logos do not represent what certain companies use. The current Nintendo logo is for example gray and not red. Whether it's in Microsoft's interest to use outdated logos I don't know, but if they used this for a presentation it would make them look unprofessional.
- The frequent appearance of the term "Xbox 720". I'd expect either "Durango", "Xbox 360 successor" or "next generation system" to be used here. 720 is not a a term you can apply as well as 360, and what connection would it have to what is proposed in terms of services, software etc.?
- The inclusion of the Wingdings typeface somewhere in this document. I've gone through all pages but I don't see where that could be, and why would such even be used for something like this? Apart from some arrows (which you can get natively through PowerPoint), there's nothing in the typeface that can be used for any reasonable purpose regarding this.
I used Adobe Reader 9 for this. It tells me that this is most likely a copy and paste job with images from Google searches, and most likely garbage (or done by an intern or something). It's anyway not how I expect Microsoft to conduct business, and seems to be just a very elaborate hoax.
What/who this nkachroo is I don't know, maybe it's the directory of Sean Wilson who uploaded this document.
dragonelite
Member
Think about it for a second.
Now you have consumers spending $400 on hardware.
Now the publisher or whatever supplier has to spend $400 on hardware alone then dont forget about the bandwidth,cooling, electricity.
Then you have people complaining about rising development costs. What if you make a game as a indie dev and becomes a hype(minecraft) you have only capacity for 10k users but you have 100k users wanting to play aka diablo 3 launch.
Blizzard is big and can expand fast with server but where are those indie devs getting the hardware worth for 100k users. What if your game quickly dies after like a month user activity drops to 15k instead of the 100k it was worth you have all that hardware that needs to be maintained or sold.
If one thing cloudgaming will restrict devs even more on what they can do. Dont think a publisher will want a dev studio go full out with their game loose grip on optimization they will just throw a extra core at it developers will think.
As a studio im pretty sure i want the consumer to also spend money on hardware so i dont have.
Of course i dont know how flexibel server capacity can be allocated or if you need generic hardware or specialized hardware. This is my vision on cloud gaming. So if it is wrong enlighten me im mostly open for hardware suggestions.
bgassassin
Member
I'm with you now.
The second one is definitely Xenos as that's how it's described. But it uses a 5-wide setup so it's really 240 ALUs. So the the 64 ALU we have to figures out the setup being used. But that was probably no more than a target placeholder considering when this would have come out.
They would be taking a nice loss IMO from either the costs of all those components and/or the R&D that went into it. Good job on MS' part if they could release something like that at a $300 price point.
Rösti;38938399 said:
If my search is correct then the person is Naveen Kachroo.
corrosivefrost
Member
Thank you for making me laugh.
I'm sure they just call it that because that became the popular thing to call it, but it's a stupid name. They had reasons for calling it the 360, but just making you spin around again makes no sense from a naming standpoint.
I fully expect a weirdo name change like Xbox Nu or some weird crap like they pulled with Kinect.
Katana_Strikes
Member
Who's got dibs on the 57 pages PS4 document??
This is what convinced me it was fake.
Wonko_C
Member
Rösti;38938399 said:
And yet this all doesn´t mean shit. If it´s for internal use, that´s how these PPT´s are made. I have seen internal PPT´s before from big international companies. The marketing guys - researchers need to get their point out and will use any image that´s available.
It doesn´t mean it´s real or fake.
Whoa, it seems legit if the username is real.
Elginer
Member
If real or faker than my grandfather's teeth one thing we know for sure is that entertainment is going to play a huge role in the next Xbox and MS surely has a hell of a long roadmap planned out that includes tablets and Win 8. We'll no doubt keep hearing more in the months to come.
R
Rösti
Unconfirmed Member
That's easily adjusted in Windows.
@sinnergy: Good points, though it doesn't convince me of this document's suggested credibility.
REMEMBER CITADEL
Banned
bgassassin
Member
Yeah. Naren would have started with MS after this document was made. Naveen has stuff going back at least to 2000.
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms978698.aspx
Elginer
Member
Time to start saving now for this machine. It makes sense with even Cliff saying over on GameSpots stage show that Gears of War Judgement is coming early 2013. Leaving it open for a new launch with some tasty new software next year. Seems Q1-2 are loaded with games like BioShock Infinite, DmC, Tomb Raider, Splinter Cell and the rest, it's a damn nice segway into a new gen for MS. I really do feel that The Last of Us is going to be the last big big title on the PS3 next year
but will that be a November title or do they want to push out a PS4 with a big title like that on the PS3 for the Holidays? Maybe they'll wait till Jan-March 2014 for a PS3 launch leaving MS with a Holiday against the WiiU.
unless you count The Last Guardian LOL
Graphics Horse
Member
Indeed. And it's even called Draft-1.
specialguy
Banned
bgassassin's find seems a more likely candidate.[/QUOTE]
I'm not sure if that's supposed to make it more credible, or less LOL.
I suppose more?
Starting to think it might be real, just incredibly old.
Yet, still a lot of it just makes no sense too, like why would they include a Xenos GPU? 64 ALU's main gpu=incredibly underpowered (unless it's some mistake or typo?). Etc.
Maybe, indulging, 64 ALU'sx5wide Xenos style=320 SP's (though, there doesn't seem to have been any way, even in 2009 or 10, they would have expected to use such old technology as Xenos). Maybe later Ms decided they needed to beef it up, upgraded to 480 SP 6670, hence the IGN rumor, then upgraded again to todays Cape Verde rumors...
A second Xenos GPU for BC would also make sense of the old dual GPU rumors. Remember those?
In summary, I dont know.
I'm not sure if that's supposed to make it more credible, or less LOL.
I suppose more?
Starting to think it might be real, just incredibly old.
Yet, still a lot of it just makes no sense too, like why would they include a Xenos GPU? 64 ALU's main gpu=incredibly underpowered (unless it's some mistake or typo?). Etc.
Maybe, indulging, 64 ALU'sx5wide Xenos style=320 SP's (though, there doesn't seem to have been any way, even in 2009 or 10, they would have expected to use such old technology as Xenos). Maybe later Ms decided they needed to beef it up, upgraded to 480 SP 6670, hence the IGN rumor, then upgraded again to todays Cape Verde rumors...
A second Xenos GPU for BC would also make sense of the old dual GPU rumors. Remember those?
In summary, I dont know.
Jake Tower
Banned
I lol'ed
specialguy
Banned
Glad Microsoft has some real winners on the Xbox team. Zune. http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_pwwi/is_200702/ai_n17169423/
i'm sure i could dig up a ton more, but dont really have time, sure you guys are on it.
majority of customers are not hardcore, in fact the hardcore is probably the 1% of the customers that buy ANY game.
Hardcore gamers are the gamers that play all the games, that buys everything that has to do with the game/console they love.
just because you play FPS doesn't make you hardcore
It is and he won't tell you anything.
specialguy
Banned
then edit it out of your post like i did mine.
megarockexe
Member
"Tiger Woods PGA Tour 14"?
Nice try. Aren't sports games released a year ahead?
Nice try. Aren't sports games released a year ahead?
dragonelite
Member
What?
My definition of hardcore gamer is someone that competes at tournament level playing the same game for years not for weeks. What you describe is what i call a core or casual gamer.
The kinect,mii and avatar only users i don't consider them one of the core they are just there because it was cool at the moment and will jump on and off with using those machines.
Ms just needs to keep the core happy with couple of games each year.
And start next gen with some new ip.
It is when you get so stucked on the casual money and totally ignore the core you will get a total backlash.
Like wiiU E3 reception. Hell people didn't even know it was a new console just a expansion of the wii. Because the casual mass market consumer is for a big part not informed(To bring it nicely
).
Publishers aren't paying for the hardware. The service provider pays, and yes it's worth it for them because when Diablo3's players move away, they'll be migrating to another game which is rendered on OnLive's server farm. More users directly translates to more profits. Hardware costs are obviously a factor, but the percentage of profits going to infrastructure will shrink over time.
Publishers will gladly support this model because it virtually eliminates copyright infringement. Even though they have to share in the infrastructure costs (through licensing fees, they don't own the hardware), those costs are negligible compared to this Capitalist holy grail of publishing.
It's not like every user has a $400 rack with their name on it in a server room. User instances cycle in and out all the time. If my PS3 could be timeshared when I'm not using it, and the hardware costs dispersed among all users, my PS3 probably only costs me $20. I'll spend disproportionately more on software during its lifetime.
Sooner or later, virtualization technology for graphics cards will improve to the point where you no longer need one GPU per running instance (as OnLive currently requires). Eventually one GPU will be able to power several running instances based on the calculated hardware requirements of any game. Significant progress has already been made in the last 5 years.
Think about the hardware/bandwidth requirements of any large web service provider. Does Facebook, Twitter or Google ever ask you to share in those costs? It's the opposite. They prefer you to store your data on their servers.
jeff_rigby
Banned
Guys really...I think all will agree that the business plan echos what many of have expected is coming for both Microsoft and Sony just with more detail.
Big thing for me are the plans for a Xbox361 this year and I expect Sony to have a PS3.5 with similar added features.
Account Technology Strategist
Microsoft Corporation
Public Company; 10,001+ employees; MSFT; Computer Software industry
November 2010 – Present (1 year 8 months)
Big thing for me are the plans for a Xbox361 this year and I expect Sony to have a PS3.5 with similar added features.
I've found a link that has him at Microsoft Nov 2010.
Account Technology Strategist
Microsoft Corporation
Public Company; 10,001+ employees; MSFT; Computer Software industry
November 2010 – Present (1 year 8 months)
clutch.as.it.gets.
Member
It´s important to note that the performance target is 8x the 360, but only 4-6x the 360 is for games. The remaining power (2x the 360) is reserved for entertainment apps and the os.
Also the GPU must be a real weak one with the 120W system power limit and the overall system cost of only $225.
MS wants to offer a machine that can do everything but nothing really good, and on top requires us to be always online.
I hope Sony will do better and offer a better GAMING console.
Also the GPU must be a real weak one with the 120W system power limit and the overall system cost of only $225.
MS wants to offer a machine that can do everything but nothing really good, and on top requires us to be always online.
I hope Sony will do better and offer a better GAMING console.
There seems to be some short memories in this thread.
One of the rumors was of a product called Loop (also referred to as Curve IIRC) that was expected to be similar to Apple TV. It would be a low powered set-top box, and also play Kinect and likely XBLA games. Rumors for it went back and forth between an AMD APU and some sort of ARM SoC (potentially a hybrid).
Another related rumor was talk that '720' would be dual GPU. That rumor actually hit before the similar PS4 dual GPU rumor. During the discussions, some of us were musing that what was really going on was that it would contain Loop or similar in order to run those same features in a low-power mode. Related to this, it was speculated that if Loop was an ARM SoC, 720 would then actually have ARM and AMD components in it.
Not that this confirms nor denies the veracity of this document, but it seems interesting that some similar information has actually been in the rumor mill for quite a while.
Another piece of this puzzle is on Giant Bomb's pre-E3, Michael Pachter had some interesting things to say about 720. He claimed we should expect it to be able to record multiple shows at once and distribute them throughout the house. Moreover that will likely even see subsidized consoles from cable providers.
Initially I thought this sounded kind of crazy, but once I stepped back and looked at the bigger picture, it made more sense. For one, I was wondering how this would work with cable providers. They'd have to work with each one individually or actually have cablecard. Then I remembered that the FCC is expected to vote in AllVid at the end of this year, so the timing may actually work out.
The other thing that seemed crazy about this was the idea of potentially recording/distributing while playing games. But if you think about the above rumors regarding a secondary CPU/GPU ... or even the current rumors regarding a ridiculously powerful multi-core CPU ... it points to this kind of functionality.
The more I think about it, the more this seems like it probably was an internal document - or if faked, was keeping a close ear to all the other rumors running around. Certainly the details would have changed by now, but it's likely this illustrates some of the core directions they are planning. Unless every rumor is coming from the same place, it can't be coincidental the majority of rumors out there over the last 6+ months actually gel with the main points in here ... including some of the ones that seem the most odd.
Last night, WPCentral actually had an interesting take on all of this
http://www.wpcentral.com/microsofts-xbox-720-roadmap-through-2015-leaked-online
While the above is really the same as what everyone else has gotten out of the document, here's an interesting thought that's quite topical:
That could be quite interesting. It would be an IPTV service that would run on multiple devices (including Loop if that happens). If MS actually pulls this off, it'll be another kick to the groin of Sony. They've been working on this for a while but put it on hold because they weren't making enough progress with content providers (just like GoogleTV).
If MS actually does get it going (and Sony can't catch up) ... there's really going to be a huge delta in terms of set-top box functionality between the upcoming consoles. This would in some ways be a nail in the coffin for Playstation from the perspective of Sony execs. From the onset, Sony wanted to not just make games but move more and more towards running the living room as a media hub, etc. In fact, it's well documented that one of the core reasons Xbox was ok'd was to actually combat Sony on this front. They were concerned Sony could eventually make the PC, etc unneeded for media and the like.
If the result of gen 3 (versus each other) is that MS has a clear lead in set-top features, it really shows how broken Sony is. They had the headstart and gameplan for this ... yet would have completely botched the endeavor. Recent movements in terms of services already show MS is ahead, and the feature rumors being discussed here would trample what Sony offers.
Not to single you guys out, but this exchange brings up one of the particulars I'm referring to. The first supposedly leaked rumors towards the end of last year regarding the next-gen Xbox actually gel with some of the info here.
One of the rumors was of a product called Loop (also referred to as Curve IIRC) that was expected to be similar to Apple TV. It would be a low powered set-top box, and also play Kinect and likely XBLA games. Rumors for it went back and forth between an AMD APU and some sort of ARM SoC (potentially a hybrid).
Another related rumor was talk that '720' would be dual GPU. That rumor actually hit before the similar PS4 dual GPU rumor. During the discussions, some of us were musing that what was really going on was that it would contain Loop or similar in order to run those same features in a low-power mode. Related to this, it was speculated that if Loop was an ARM SoC, 720 would then actually have ARM and AMD components in it.
Not that this confirms nor denies the veracity of this document, but it seems interesting that some similar information has actually been in the rumor mill for quite a while.
Another piece of this puzzle is on Giant Bomb's pre-E3, Michael Pachter had some interesting things to say about 720. He claimed we should expect it to be able to record multiple shows at once and distribute them throughout the house. Moreover that will likely even see subsidized consoles from cable providers.
Initially I thought this sounded kind of crazy, but once I stepped back and looked at the bigger picture, it made more sense. For one, I was wondering how this would work with cable providers. They'd have to work with each one individually or actually have cablecard. Then I remembered that the FCC is expected to vote in AllVid at the end of this year, so the timing may actually work out.
The other thing that seemed crazy about this was the idea of potentially recording/distributing while playing games. But if you think about the above rumors regarding a secondary CPU/GPU ... or even the current rumors regarding a ridiculously powerful multi-core CPU ... it points to this kind of functionality.
The more I think about it, the more this seems like it probably was an internal document - or if faked, was keeping a close ear to all the other rumors running around. Certainly the details would have changed by now, but it's likely this illustrates some of the core directions they are planning. Unless every rumor is coming from the same place, it can't be coincidental the majority of rumors out there over the last 6+ months actually gel with the main points in here ... including some of the ones that seem the most odd.
Last night, WPCentral actually had an interesting take on all of this
http://www.wpcentral.com/microsofts-xbox-720-roadmap-through-2015-leaked-online
While the above is really the same as what everyone else has gotten out of the document, here's an interesting thought that's quite topical:
That could be quite interesting. It would be an IPTV service that would run on multiple devices (including Loop if that happens). If MS actually pulls this off, it'll be another kick to the groin of Sony. They've been working on this for a while but put it on hold because they weren't making enough progress with content providers (just like GoogleTV).
If MS actually does get it going (and Sony can't catch up) ... there's really going to be a huge delta in terms of set-top box functionality between the upcoming consoles. This would in some ways be a nail in the coffin for Playstation from the perspective of Sony execs. From the onset, Sony wanted to not just make games but move more and more towards running the living room as a media hub, etc. In fact, it's well documented that one of the core reasons Xbox was ok'd was to actually combat Sony on this front. They were concerned Sony could eventually make the PC, etc unneeded for media and the like.
If the result of gen 3 (versus each other) is that MS has a clear lead in set-top features, it really shows how broken Sony is. They had the headstart and gameplan for this ... yet would have completely botched the endeavor. Recent movements in terms of services already show MS is ahead, and the feature rumors being discussed here would trample what Sony offers.
Rookje
Member
The biggest feature of next gen XBOX is being able to stream the game to your PC, ala OnLive in your living room. It could make PC gaming irrelevant, as you no longer need a "gaming PC" to play games on your PC. For example, you could buy Starcraft 2 for XBOX then play it with a mouse and keyboard like you do today on your PC streaming via XBOX (and the PC could be a netbook even).
MrNyarlathotep
Banned
I'd be really surprised if MS can get content deals that Sony can't, given Sony (albeit in a different division) actually produce content in the first place.
Yeah, it'll be just like PC gaming!
Except with shit image quality, and unnatural latency introduced!
Hey look, somebody else has some sense.
Me said:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=38930234&postcount=149
On the direct link:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/92821757/XBox-720-9-24-Checkpoint-Draft-1
From the embed Kotaku was hosting:
http://kotaku.com/5918942/leak-or-h...oes-get-some-things-right-about-the-next-xbox
From a press release:
http://www.cov.com/news/detail.aspx?news=1748
Lookin' pretty real now!
Edit: From their Engrish Chinese website: http://www.cov.com/beijing/
http://www.scribd.com/doc/92821757/XBox-720-9-24-Checkpoint-Draft-1
From the embed Kotaku was hosting:
http://kotaku.com/5918942/leak-or-h...oes-get-some-things-right-about-the-next-xbox
From a press release:
http://www.cov.com/news/detail.aspx?news=1748
Lookin' pretty real now!
Edit: From their Engrish Chinese website: http://www.cov.com/beijing/
MrNyarlathotep
Banned
lol @ theBishops self ownage bragging
They have one very big feather to offer the studios.... roughly twice as many potential customers as sony in the US (assuming it would be a US focused service). The xbox audience is also used to paying for access to things so it would fit in there as well. Making a guess here but I would assume there are about 10-15 million users paying for gold in the US. That would put them in the top5 largest cable companies in the US (and if its closer to 15 #2 behind only comcast). That's not a direct correlation but it's something they can sell to the studios.
I still don't understand why sony has yet to really leverage sony pictures on the ps3.... they really could do something gamechanging there.