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There are almost 300 Square Enix employees on Final Fantasy XIV excluding outsourcing
- Thread starter Nirolak
- Start date
Pai Pai Master
Banned
This is such a tired argument. FFXI is pure FF through and through, and one of the best in the series. FFXIV was not, which is one of the many reasons it failed and why they are rebuilding it. Not even the most diehard Final Fantasy fans have much to enjoy in the current version.
H_Prestige
Banned
So even though it's in a completely different genre of gaming, it's "pure FF through and through"? Going from single player RPG to MMO with subscription is a huge change. Much bigger than changing the art style or some gameplay mechanics.
Pai Pai Master
Banned
Yeah, definitely. A subscription charge doesn't make it a different series when it still features a lot of the same mechanics, iconic monsters/characters and gameplay design as the rest of the games. They change it up with every game that comes out, FFXI is still very much a Final Fantasy game like any other. They wouldn't have called it that if the players didn't agree.
GhaleonQ
Member
Serious question: Is there any possibility at all for a major MMO in today's market to exist on a subscription model and remain popular and profitable? Even WoW seems to be winding down, and that's the juggernaut which cannot be compared to anything else.
Yeah sorry, I interpreted the statement wrongly. I think S-E is already troubled this generation though, most of their Japanese staff might not make it to the next if this shit continues.
Your question is unfortunately rhetorical. *sigh*
I feel sick. Square-Enix is not Square, but this generation's Square-Enix is unrecognizable. I don't want to see what Stage 4 Square looks like.
Callibretto
Member
I never got to beat FF XI because the early version (play it since launch) is so demanding, you need to be in a party to make meaningful progress etc. but the world, story, gameplay and everything about it screams Final Fantasy. it's a great game that I really regret never beating it.
I can honestly say it's more Final Fantasy than FF13
Red Sutter
Banned
Why do people always say that new installments in the series "are not FF?" Every game in the series is different save for some series wide thematic elements
Pai Pai Master
Banned
I'm not sure why people still insist FFXI isn't a mainline game in the series just because it's an MMO. It's been that way ever since it came out, for some reason.
Square was definitely different back then. Shit like FFXIII and FFXIV have tarnished the brand name far more than FFXI was ever capable of doing. Maybe I'm biased, but I truly believe FFXI is the best and most fully-realized Final Fantasy experience Square's ever delivered. And they couldn't have done it if it weren't an MMO.
Definitely. So much work has gone into repurposing the engine and rebuilding the game from scratch, and creating enough new, original content to support the relaunch of the game through the first year or so. There's no way SE's internal teams are big enough to support full development on another brand new Final Fantasy game (XIII-2 and XIII-3 don't count for obvious reasons) while they've been re-working XIV.
The Praiseworthy
Member
More and more... my faith in FFXIV grow stronger.
Glad to hear this, they are really trying so hard to make FFXIV the game it deserved to be
Gamescom can't arrive any sooner.
edit: for all these who says this is a big waste and whatever.... this is an investing in 10 years+ game that will make them a big profit in return... just look at FFXI and you will understand all this attention from SE for FFXIV.
Glad to hear this, they are really trying so hard to make FFXIV the game it deserved to be
Gamescom can't arrive any sooner.
edit: for all these who says this is a big waste and whatever.... this is an investing in 10 years+ game that will make them a big profit in return... just look at FFXI and you will understand all this attention from SE for FFXIV.
Honestly, anyone reading this thread should only focus on what the players of 14 say since we actually see the many, many improvements and increasing player base. The amount of work they are doing is staggering and the community is responding VERY well. That strong community will be the reason SE will make their money back considering they actually posted a PROFIT last year when the game was essentially F2P for several months and was being heavily worked on.
Players don't get to decide if something is called "Final Fantasy" or not. Just saying.
It's no good to say a game is "pure FF" when the concept of a "pure FF" is nebulous at best. A better way to put it is that SE chose to name it FF11, and we don't have a choice regarding its status as a mainline or not.
Pai Pai Master
Banned
Yeah, so I don't get why people who've never touched FFXI think they get to decide that it's not a real Final Fantasy game.
FFXIV failed in that respect, but it's clear they want to add a lot of new content that ties it to the franchise history. I do like the idea of it becoming a fanservice game with all these references and repurposed stuff from old games. Magitek armor, Gold Saucer, Crystal Tower, all cool stuff I'm looking forward to.
lazorexplosion
Member
300 people working on a game that already bombed. Christ.
michaeltraps
Member
As someone who was turned off by the beta, the game even in its current form is a vast improvement. You can definitely tell they're working their asses of to make this the game it should have been from the start. I'm not sure anything like this has ever been done before in an MMO, so I'm eager to see what the final product has become.
GhaleonQ
Member
MAYBE it would when it launched.
MAYBE it will be possible to nail subscriptions or entice Final Fantasy fanboys for microtransactions when it relaunches.
That much investment should not be built on maybe propositions. This really is scary for them.
It's not called that anymore. 'A Realm Reborn' is the new subtitle.
SatelliteOfLove
Member
Lookit all this goddamn talent! I don't WANT to say good money after bad, but, in an age where the 3-Month Period is no longer a test drive for MMO vets but a honeymoon before the backlash hits (ESPECIALLY when it's deserved like FFXIV ate), this is madness.
Dreamwriter
Member
No, because Rift, which came out a few months before Star Wars, uses the subscription model and is doing very well. The reason is because Rift put a lot of time and planning (and money) into getting everything right, and didn't release until everything was perfect. Rift's base gameplay and content was complete an entire year before the game shipped. So when the game shipped, it was as mature as if it had been out for a year. And now they are about to release their first expansion, and this expansion more than triples the size of the game world and the amount of content in it.
If a game is done well, and has decent marketing, the subscription model works well. Now, can FFXIV 2.0 do well enough to survive? In this case, it's going to all come down to marketing, because even the existing game has been updated to the point where it is fun, but the game has a huge stigma of past horribleness to overcome. Their only chance is to really go BIG on marketing 2.0 as a new game, and I mean Superbowl level big.
Danny Dudekisser
I paid good money for this Dynex!
You'd think they could find something better to do...
APZonerunner
Member
Relaxed Muscle
Member
UI it's done by the guy behind the UI in FF XII and Tactics Ogre. FF XII UI is actually one of my favorites on the series. I think it will be fine.
They realized the actual UI is a clusterfuck and they said more tha once that they working hard in making a proper UI. Actual screenshots shows that in appearance the UI is fine and a VAST improvement over the actual one.
I'm actually a little surprised by the backlash from this community... If you're a fan of Final Fantasy try to look at the current scenario from a business perspective:
What hurts your brand more after one of your series' main games is slammed by critics and deemed a piece of shit? *Note: I said specifically the brand. If this was about money they would think twice about allocating so many resources and top talent to this project*
A) Ignore the critics/community and shove the game under a rug and pretend it didn't happen. Cut losses early.
B) Ignore the critics/community and keep the game running with a shrinking population. Take on some losses until eventually you shut down the service.
C) Admit your mistakes and make an effort to rebuild the game from scratch in order to restore faith in your fanbase in regards to your series. Take on bigger losses.
D) Admit your mistakes and shove the game under a rug and pretend it didn't happen. Cut losses early.
The obvious answer is C. As I said initially, I'm seriously surprised with this backlash... The company is literally bending over backwards trying to right their wrongs here and some of you guys can't even show a shred of support? I guess you all just like to complain for the sake of complaining... A ton of you complain about EA/Ubisoft's practices when it comes to making/marketing games and their response is often times "Stfu noob." So now you're complaining about a company that isn't doing that? I'm sorry but I just don't understand the lot of you.
Not trying to sound like some sort of apologist since I give SE a fair amount of shit myself but geez...
What hurts your brand more after one of your series' main games is slammed by critics and deemed a piece of shit? *Note: I said specifically the brand. If this was about money they would think twice about allocating so many resources and top talent to this project*
A) Ignore the critics/community and shove the game under a rug and pretend it didn't happen. Cut losses early.
B) Ignore the critics/community and keep the game running with a shrinking population. Take on some losses until eventually you shut down the service.
C) Admit your mistakes and make an effort to rebuild the game from scratch in order to restore faith in your fanbase in regards to your series. Take on bigger losses.
D) Admit your mistakes and shove the game under a rug and pretend it didn't happen. Cut losses early.
The obvious answer is C. As I said initially, I'm seriously surprised with this backlash... The company is literally bending over backwards trying to right their wrongs here and some of you guys can't even show a shred of support? I guess you all just like to complain for the sake of complaining... A ton of you complain about EA/Ubisoft's practices when it comes to making/marketing games and their response is often times "Stfu noob." So now you're complaining about a company that isn't doing that? I'm sorry but I just don't understand the lot of you.
Not trying to sound like some sort of apologist since I give SE a fair amount of shit myself but geez...
I think the majority of FF fans don't consider the MMO to be canon.
APZonerunner
Member
This is a good post. They're doing a great job, I think - if this works or not, it's a bloody noble cause. Almost any other company would've burned FF14 and its entire early adopter base entirely and started fresh, I think.
cpp_is_king
Member
They had no choice, the game is too big to fail from their perspective, repairing the damage done by the launch of ffxiv is worth any price to them, i think
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
The moral of this story is to get things right the first time instead of outsourcing them to Chinese MMO factories.
Stealth20k
Banned
I commend them for trying to fix it but its a game that never should of been made in the first place
they want easy mmo money, by making the last dq and ff mmos but that isnt what gamers want.
dq X will have 1/10th the sales of IX
they want easy mmo money, by making the last dq and ff mmos but that isnt what gamers want.
dq X will have 1/10th the sales of IX
That was probably poor wording on my part. I'm of the belief that a majority of FF fans don't consider the MMOs to be "main entries" in the series and would rather play their single player offerings. That's what I was trying to say.
I have no data to back this up, of course.
HamPster PamPster
Member
"C" would make sense if FFXIV was the only thing damaging the brand but its much more extensive than one game. Everything with XIII, Verses no where in sight, Type-0's localization being ignored, a constant watering down of the brand through spin off and ports
Even if FFXIV comes out and is great its only a small step in repairing the brand as a whole and SE could easily undo whatever goodwill a great FFXIV brings in a year or two
APZonerunner
Member
Tell that to Wada as he sits on the mountains of money FFXI made.
H_Prestige
Banned
You think either of these games will come anywhere near FFXI? Especially FFXIV which has already lost god knows how much money.
TheJollyCorner
Member
now you guys know where the money/time/resources for Final Fantasy Versus XIII your HD FFVII Remake has gone!
Moral Panic
Member
Too many cooks....
They aren't trying to be the next WoW. If they manage to make it do as well as FFXI money-wise, they should be okay(?).
Still rooting for them, to be honest. The core team looks good.. I hope it turns out good too.
The comments on how XI and XIV aren't main line games is junk imo. Even if you don't like them, they are as FF as you can possibly get with an mmorpg. lol.
Still rooting for them, to be honest. The core team looks good.. I hope it turns out good too.
The comments on how XI and XIV aren't main line games is junk imo. Even if you don't like them, they are as FF as you can possibly get with an mmorpg. lol.
RustyNails
Member
Why Nomura's FF vs XIII dev team is treated like red headed stepchild, I will never know.
Things that Square Enix should've been making/releasing in the past couple of years:
FF15 and FF Versus
Kingdom Hearts on consoles
Single player Dragon Quest game on Xbox 360/PS3 (Don't know if Nintendo made a deal with them regarding Dragon Quest)
Releasing every Final Fantasy on PSN/XBLA
Things that Square Enix have been making/releasing in the past couple of years:
Kingdom Hearts on handhelds
Dragon Quest MMO on Wii
FF14
FF13-2
FF10 HD remake
I'm really glad they have Eidos picking up the slack.
FF15 and FF Versus
Kingdom Hearts on consoles
Single player Dragon Quest game on Xbox 360/PS3 (Don't know if Nintendo made a deal with them regarding Dragon Quest)
Releasing every Final Fantasy on PSN/XBLA
Things that Square Enix have been making/releasing in the past couple of years:
Kingdom Hearts on handhelds
Dragon Quest MMO on Wii
FF14
FF13-2
FF10 HD remake
I'm really glad they have Eidos picking up the slack.