GoofsterStud
Member
This is not the norm. Valve locks you out of content you purchase. The others still allowed you to access the content you purchased after declining.
Why is it hard to see the difference?
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- Thread starter Gowans
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This is not the norm. Valve locks you out of content you purchase. The others still allowed you to access the content you purchased after declining.
Why is it hard to see the difference?
Sir_Crocodile
Member
Do you want this to be the norm? And if that canned response is steam's actual take on things, this goes far further then even sony have.
psn and xbox liev
as said before
it is also NOT normal. It is only normal in gaming and it needs to fucking stop
GoofsterStud
Member
I don't know about live, but I can still access my PSN software that I installed, before the changes.
Precisely, and that's a very long and winding road.
CecilRousso
Member
If you for some reason find this reason for boycott, don´t know why, then your options are probably DRM free indie games on PC and physical Nintendo games. Hope that´s enough for you.
Sentenza
Member
It's like four post that you are blabbing about "YOU GUYS" but it's not really clear who you are talking to.
I, for one, am not letting anyone "trampling my rights", because these new terms of service don't hold any value here in Europe and because if I had any reason to sue Valve, I would do it even after accepting these ridiculous terms of service.
You can't be force to sign away your rights.
But yes, american users should definitely raise the issue with their politicians and do some lobby work, instead of complaining just when the occasional corporation simply applies a law they didn't do anything about.
exactly my point. yes its the same with live
GoofsterStud
Member
Voice your opinion, get documentation documentation that you accept under duress before accepting in the client. That way if you have problems you can pull up the email and say they new you accepted under duress before, you were given no choice. It was either robbery or you click a button. That should help protect you legal if you disagree with it. I still won't accept, I will use offline mode. :-(
Then my point is this is not the norm in gaming. As steam is the only one that locks me out of the content I purchased.
Your only option is to console game if you are playing multiplatform games that are mandatory Steamworks on PC. I truly fear for the feature of PC gaming when so many games are becoming mandatory Steamworks. I want a proper offline mode where i can download my games for life.
Yes if you are protected by your Government good for you
I am talking about those who do not have such protections and seemingly don't care.One day you will.
Yes if you are protected by your Government good for you
One day you will.
Choco do we Aussies have the same rights as European Union users in regards to this issue?
Yeh that makes sense and I would also support retaining access of purchased software after declining new terms but realistically I think it's an inevitability to games as a service. I suspect the reason you keep access to purchased PSN and XBLA games is not by Microsoft or Sony's choice but a mechanical limitation of not requiring an online connection to play them, if you need to redownload them after you declined an update with a new TOS you won't be able to either.
Yes you can. They are the store.
In fact under UK law they are required to.
The no refunds label means nothing in the UK. I've had refunds from many digital stores after purchase (XBLA & PSN included).
witchedwiz
Member
Well.....
I Doubt this can supercede eu Laws so i can just accept and /lol
I Doubt this can supercede eu Laws so i can just accept and /lol
GoofsterStud
Member
Origins to? You do realize Steam is the only one right. Is it because steam is so advanced! The most revolutionary Software is the only one capable of locking us out... (Is that sarcasm?)
It all makes sense. BTM PSN locks out people out of content if they are banned from cheating. They have the capability they just aren't using it for this purpose.
Note: I know nothing about LIVE, so I can't say the same.
Yeah I doesn't.
Maybe we need a education thread or consumer rights when ot comes to games purchases, digital, subscriptions, dlc etc. around the world and what can be ignored.
CecilRousso
Member
When people say that want games to be Steamworks, they´re not really saying that every game ever sold should come with mandatory Steam requirements. They are saying that they prefer Steamworks over uPlay, Origin, GfWL, Securom/similiar DRM, etc.
And I´m saying the same thing. If I buy a PC game, I only accept either Steamworks or DRM free alternatives.
as that breaks the terms of service of PSN.
By not agreeing to a TOS, you can't be punished for not agreeing to one....
GoofsterStud
Member
At this point consumers should have more faith in Origins then Steam. Steam has one upped Origins this time in fowl tactics against the consumer.
yes but assuming the 360 is alive in 10 years and not broken if you plug it into the wall, teh discs will work.....
Good luck to them enforcing that in court if they're holding your digital purchases hostage. The fact that they are essentially coercing you into signing by voiding your continued access to your games would seem to me a pretty easy win for a lawyer arguing that is was signed under duress.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duress
Could a lawyer chime in on this? Does that sound about right for this situation?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duress
Could a lawyer chime in on this? Does that sound about right for this situation?
GoofsterStud
Member
As long as you get it documented it's a sure win. Send them a message. If you don't it's a lot harder to prove.
You can use that message in court, stating they knew that you agreed under duress.
Note: I got the advice from a Lawyer who I work with, who told me to do that so it'd be easy to prove. Granted I can't give specifics, but I trust him. He did it. Still another lawyers input would be appreciated.
How does Origin handle TOS changes? To the consumer is has always been EA versus Valve which choosing their service, and regardless of this 'scandal' I'd still back Valve as the lesser of two evils.
GoofsterStud
Member
You don't agree and you have access to your old games and can still download games you already purchased. You do not get any future updates after the day you declined (unless you haven't downloaded the software yet and it will still be included with the first download). You can still access the software you purchased you just can't purchase additional software or DLC.
There are many reports about what happened.
Steam response...You don't agree, you don't have jack.
I don't see how people are twisting this in Steams favor. I know Origins changed first, but they didn't do all of this. Maybe I'm stupid.... It seems people who disagree want me to believe that. LOL
Not sure what your point is. Is basically the same as complaining why a DVD player can't play VHS tapes. If you're 360 lasts for 50 years, then you can still play those games. My Nintendo 64 is going strong. I also got 2 of them so i'm double insured.
As long as you get it documented it's a sure win. Send them a message. If you don't it's a lot harder to prove.
You can use that message in court, stating they knew that you agreed under duress.
Note: I got the advice from a Lawyer who I work with, who told me to do that so it'd be easy to prove. Granted I can't give specifics, but I trust him. He did it. Still another lawyers input would be appreciated.
Documented in what way? Send them an email to let them know that you protest the change or needs to be an actual letter or what?
GoofsterStud
Member
You need to click the link, and print out the page. File it. If you ever need it, there's your evidence. Print Screen and and email to yourself...etc...
Just notify them that you accepted under duress as you had no way to access your licenses otherwise.
Now if you ever need to you can say, Steam new I did this under duress and chose not to act.
Just notify them that you accepted under duress as you had no way to access your licenses otherwise.
Now if you ever need to you can say, Steam new I did this under duress and chose not to act.
It's not perplexing or sad or hilarious for people to have trust in Valve. Buyer-seller relationships exist in all economies. You don't have to go far to observe them. Just go down to your local market and you'll see those relationships play out. Valve being a corporation doesn't make such relationships hilarious or whatever adjectives you want to use.
"Making profits" doesn't exclude being consumer-friendly which is one way of building relationships. Being consumer-friendly is arguably a better way to make more profits and in the long run than bleeding your consumers dry. It's not at all surprising that many still have plenty of trust in Valve despite some not-consumer-friendly policies such as class action lawsuits.
In this particular case, I'm not sure how much blame can be placed on Valve. What are the alternatives that don't involve other publishers? If you want Valve to refund the games how can they refund Activision games, Ubisoft games, EA games etc? If you want your games to be available offline (permanently, because your account is banned), will other publishers allow their games in DRM-free state?
GoofsterStud
Member
And maybe the pandoras box of lawsuits will put this into Developers perspective. We can only hope.
Reading the new TOS you kinda get to a section that reads like "If you are in the EU ignore everything we just wrote up to this point and especially ignore everything after this point." to me. Kinda funny.
The problem is, how can you sign something that says you agree to current *and future* terms that Valve might come up with? If you purchase a game (license, whatever) under terms and conditions at the time, if they change those terms and you don't I've hem, you should be able to cancel. You can't buy any new games,but should always have access to previously bought content.
All digital platforms should be required by law to make purchased content always available as long as then platform is still operational.
Sir_Crocodile
Member
That's their problem.
Lol? There is no drm free music or videos.
Want to download you music? gotta download itunes, agree to the terms, sign onto itunes, agree to the terms, then download 'your' music.
Face facts, digital is anti consumer, and its only going to get worse.
And this isnt even a digital issue, the original contract was a phone one I believe, ATT, involved in the arbitration clause and the denying of class actionability.
And that aint a digital rights issue, or digital content. Its a 'you have to agree or go without' issue. Companies are going to flock to it because its there. And the only way to stop it is to change the law.
There are tonnes of places where disagreeing with the tos or an updated tos essentially just cuts you out. Blizzard games, Itunes... etc
Music isnt DRM free, itunes just replaced drm in most cases. You still lose out.
Want to download you music? gotta download itunes, agree to the terms, sign onto itunes, agree to the terms, then download 'your' music.
Face facts, digital is anti consumer, and its only going to get worse.
And this isnt even a digital issue, the original contract was a phone one I believe, ATT, involved in the arbitration clause and the denying of class actionability.
And that aint a digital rights issue, or digital content. Its a 'you have to agree or go without' issue. Companies are going to flock to it because its there. And the only way to stop it is to change the law.
There are tonnes of places where disagreeing with the tos or an updated tos essentially just cuts you out. Blizzard games, Itunes... etc
Music isnt DRM free, itunes just replaced drm in most cases. You still lose out.
GoofsterStud
Member
Pureauthor
Member
The part I'm surprised about here is that people actually did not know you can't play your Steam games if you get locked out of your account.
Basic fact-checking, people. It helps!
Basic fact-checking, people. It helps!
Dumb justification
Anyways I've been waiting for this day to come. People have been saying for years that Valve will do right by DRM. When the service dies they will "unlock" everyone's games etc. We'll see, but this is a bad sign.
GoofsterStud
Member
They are locking people before they die. Man people will believe anything.
No, people didn't know they'd lock you out of your account for this, while providing none of the options the other DD services provided.
NullPointer
Member
All of the music I own is drm free MP3s, bought and paid for legally. You might want to look around at some other options for getting your media.
I don't see how this could be interpreted in any other way.
CecilRousso
Member
GoofsterStud
Member
"What does DRM-free mean?
Digital Rights Management or "DRM" commonly refers to software that is designed to control or limit how a file can be played, copied, downloaded, shared, or accessed. DRM-free means that the MP3 files you purchase from Amazon.com do not contain any software that will restrict your use of the file."
Apparently only we buy our music from Amazon, we must be a special snowflakes. He buys his music on itunes and his games on steam.