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[Neiteio]

So. I recently sunk 60 hours into Saints Row: The Third + all DLC on PC -- AWESOME GAME. Prior to that, I played through Demon's Souls -- ALSO AWESOME. Somewhere along the way, I got nostalgic for Zelda, distant to me now like an alienated stepfather.

It got me thinking:

When Zelda goes HD, it needs to be an open world title like the NES original. Right from the start, you can wander off in any direction. Scattered around the world are, oh, let's say 16 dungeons. Some you see in the distance, like a tower on a hill, and the trick is getting there. Others, you stumble upon by accident: a hole in the ground gives way to tunnels; tunnels to caves; caves to the entrance of an underground temple.

You can tackle the dungeons in any order, at any time. This is possible because you start the game with a half-dozen items that form the basic puzzle-solving "vocabulary" of every dungeon. So right from the start you have your sword, shield, bow, bombs, boomerang, hookshot and lantern. But each dungeon also has its own special item to collect. Since you should be able to tackle the dungeons in any order you wish, the special item in each dungeon should NOT be required for the puzzles in any of the other dungeons... but it would still get use beyond its host dungeon in the form of the overworld, where certain nooks and crannies can only be accessed by using that item. The final dungeon, accessible once you've completed all of the others, could also make use of every item, since you'd have them all by that point.

So with that it's possible to do any of the dungeons, in any order. The dungeons can still have their own compelling mechanics, their own compelling plots, uncovered once you arrive there and meet the locals. But now there's a true sense of exploration and adventure...

Meanwhile, you have bustling towns, driven by time cycles. Let's say, oh, seven days in a week, with the key NPCs doing different things each day in that period, before looping back to the start of the cycle... unless you attempt their sidequests and send their routines branching off in different paths. This would bring back some of the "living world" of Majora's Mask, a game that did the same thing but with three days in one town and a "clean slate" mechanic via time travel. It'd also hopefully bring back some of that game's whimsy and wonder, with a gaggle of weird and charming characters.

And make the game brutally difficult on its default difficulty. Provide an "easy mode" for the casuals, but keep the default difficulty tough. In addition, start the game with a question: "Have you played a Zelda game before?" Select "Yes," and the game says, "You can access a tutorial at any time from the Start menu," before skipping straight to the main game. GAF would select "Yes" and be spared any Fi-style withering of the soul... But should GAF suffer amnesia and forget how to play, the tutorial would be just a button press away.

Personally, I think the above would really revive the series for me. It has the three elements I want back in the series: 1) EXPLORATION/ADVENTURE, 2) A LIVING WORLD, and 3) BEING TREATED LIKE AN EXPERIENCED GAMER. (All-caps for thread skimmers.)

Also, I wouldn't mind Zelda games copying Demon's Souls online layer: Summon helpful phantoms in the form of multi-colored Links via the Four Sword! Have your game invaded by malicious players in the form of Shadow Link! Leave helpful or hindering messages in the game world for others to find! And so on...

So GAF... Time for a routine "WHAT WE WANT IN ZELDA" chat.

UPDATE: Looks like I may be getting something like what I wanted after all. From the Nintendo Direct on Jan. 23, 2013:

 

[EmCeeGramr]

and a free unicorn

 

[Gravijah]

ok i just want a new sprite based top down Zelda.

neither of us will ever get what we want.

 

[Metroid Hunter]

I want the game that is to Majora's Mask as Twilight Princess was to Ocarina of Time.

 

[komaruR]

 

[ZoddGutts]

Shame Nintendo doesn't have the money nor the talent to make that sort of game. Oh wait they do, they just don't have the balls to do it. Majora's Mask was the only 3D Zelda game where they were willing to experiment in doing something really new.

 

[Blood Diamonds]

I want a new Metroid.

Let's dream together

 

[BY2K]

You'll get hand-holding and your gonna like it!

 

[bjork]

Judging solely from the thread title, you want Zelda 2.

 

[Haliela]

What you're describing sounds like a Bethesda game but difficult. I'd rather not have a Skyrim Zelda if possible. The open world idea sounds appealing, but I definitely wouldn't want all the dungeons available to do in any order.

 

[JordanLMiller]

I would be happy if in the next game there were no trains, boats, or birds, but instead a nice overworld to explore like in the good old days.

 

[Snowden's Secret]

I want exactly whatever Aonuma and Co. decide to give us, because they've got a far better track record than any of us.

 

[Hiltz]

2D Zelda was perfection.

I'm disappointed that we may not see the return of Skyward Sword's combat system, but I am looking forward to the next art style. Nintendo has yet to screw that up (except for the creepy npc characters in Twilight Princess).

 

[Neiteio]

What you're describing sounds like a Bethesda game but difficult. I'd rather not have a Skyrim Zelda if possible. The open world idea sounds appealing, but I definitely wouldn't want all the dungeons available to do in any order.

Why not? It should work as long as you build "character" into each dungeon with self-contained plots that play out in said dungeon (think Medli in Dragon Roost Cavern in TWW), and if you provide threads connecting them all in the overworld (I.E. do dungeon A and then dungeon B, and NPCs will have modified speech vs. if you did dungeon B first). There's a way to make it more coherent than the occasionally aimless Bethesda game.

 

[Vidiot]

I want today, I want tomorrow.

 

[Claude]

While we're wishing here, I want a new Spyro game.

 

[Quackula]

Zelda fans have no idea what they want from a Zelda game.

Nintendo does what they ask and people complain.

 

[BD1]

I posted this in one of the old Wii U Spec Threads, but my dream for the first HD Zelda is this:

Game opens with Link as a Ranger, riding Epona on the outskirts of Hyrule. He's attacked by a band of demons, looted and knocked unconscious. When he wakes up, his memory is hazy and all his gear is gone, but a kind old man tells him its "dangerous to go alone, take this" and hands him a sword and a map.

From there, you use the Wii GamePad as a map of Hyrule to explore and discover the entire kingdom and take down the demon plan of Gannon.

 

[Neiteio]

Zelda fans have no idea what they want from a Zelda game.

Nintendo does what they ask and people complain.

People have been asking for exploration, a return to a living game world, and a decent challenge/respect for their intellect... but I'm not certain we've received any of these, at least not all together in one game at once.

I posted this in one of the old Wii U Spec Threads, but my dream for the first HD Zelda is this:

Game opens with Link as a Ranger, riding Epona on the outskirts of Hyrule. He's attacked by a band of demons, looted and knocked unconscious. When he wakes up, his memory is hazy and all his gear is gone, but a kind old man tells him its "dangerous to go alone, take this" and hands him a sword and a map.

From there, you use the Wii GamePad as a map of Hyrule to explore and discover the entire kingdom and take down the demon plan of Gannon.

Badass. You even included the double 'N!'

 

[Fantastical]

I feel like the next Zelda on Wii U has to be radically different. I expect big changes even though most past experiences have told me not to.

 

[Mileena]

Zelda fans have no idea what they want from a Zelda game.

Nintendo does what they ask and people complain.

That's not true.

 

[oatmeal]

Zelda fans have no idea what they want from a Zelda game.

Nintendo does what they ask and people complain.

Fans complain about long/boring intros, Nintendo extends long and boring intros further with every release.

Are they REALLY listening?

People always say "ZELDA FANS DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY WANT", but there's a majority rule on the best Zelda games (protip: none of them were released in the 21st century).

 

[zroid]

I'm pretty sure this isn't the Zelda game I want

Spoiler

I still haven't played Majora's Mask or Link's Awakening (or the Capcom ones), but apart from those, Skyward Sword is my favourite Zelda to-date

 

[RobotHaus]

So like Shadow of the Colossus?

 

[oatmeal]

I posted this in one of the old Wii U Spec Threads, but my dream for the first HD Zelda is this:

Game opens with Link as a Ranger, riding Epona on the outskirts of Hyrule. He's attacked by a band of demons, looted and knocked unconscious. When he wakes up, his memory is hazy and all his gear is gone, but a kind old man tells him its "dangerous to go alone, take this" and hands him a sword and a map.

From there, you use the Wii GamePad as a map of Hyrule to explore and discover the entire kingdom and take down the demon plan of Gannon.

Sounds perfect.

You start inside a tutorial that isn't stupid. It teaches you everything you need to know with regards to combat from the beginning, and then it rips it away from you so you feel weak and vulnerable and thus, want to get it back.

 

[HyperCubed4]

When Zelda goes HD, it needs to be an open world title like the NES original. Right from the start, you can wander off in any direction. Scattered around the world are, oh, let's say 16 dungeons. Some you see in the distance, like a tower on a hill, and the trick is getting there. Others, you stumble upon by accident: a hole in the ground gives way to tunnels; tunnels to caves; caves to the entrance of an underground temple.

Just watched the latest episode of Game Grumps where Egoraptor compares Legend of Zelda games (past and present) to Disney World. In the past, it was one big park that you could explore; now, the park is more like a tour, taking you through each individual attraction. That's why A Link to the Past was my favorite Legend of Zelda game. I could explore everything if I wanted to.

And make the game brutally difficult on its default difficulty. Provide an "easy mode" for the casuals, but keep the default difficulty tough. In addition, start the game with a question: "Have you played a Zelda game before?" Select "Yes," and the game says, "You can access a tutorial at any time from the Start menu," before skipping straight to the main game. GAF would select "Yes" and be spared any Fi-style withering of the soul... But should GAF suffer amnesia and forget how to play, the tutorial would be just a button press away.

Hate to mention him again, but Egoraptor makes a good point in his Megaman episode of Sequelitis. Megaman X was great for many reasons, one of which was that it didn't need a tutorial. Fez is phenomenal for this (besides being buggy), as it doesn't hold your hand at all. I still don't know how to solve that

Spoiler

goddamn

bell puzzle.

Zelda Mario fans have no idea what they want from a Zelda Mario game.

Nintendo does what they ask and people complain.

Fixed, at least from a financial standpoint.

 

[Neiteio]

Honestly, at this point, if they gave Majora's Mask the OoT3D treatment, I would celebrate as though my dream Zelda had just been announced. I miss being truly excited for this series. Being in HD will help since it won't come off like an obsolete relic now, but they need to make an earnest effort to rekindle the joy of getting lost in a world, of fearing enemies because they can destroy you, of following an NPC's curious habits and solving a mystery along the way. And they need to do so without repeatedly interruping my game with intrusive and unsolicited "hints," without forcing me through "educational" fetch quests and without dragging down the game with endless exposition.

EDIT: HyperCubed4, in response to your no.gif, I said there should be an option to SKIP the tutorial, right from the start. And then if you need it, you can come back to it later. The game would be designed such that anyone who's played Zelda before wouldn't need the tutorial.

 

[Pociask]

Well, I would buy it. Open world Zelda is best Zelda.

 

[RAWi]

I would be happy if in the next game there were no trains, boats, or birds, but instead a nice overworld to explore like in the good old days.

No horse, no nothing.

You know what? GO outside, but first here, take this sword, it is dangerous outside. Good luck!

--------

I like the fact that we get new "vechiles" to move around the map, but maybe we could get more "awards" for exploring. Like the overworld of Windwaker but with more things. And finding weapon parts, to customize the ones you already have; so you don't only upgrade them, like in Skyward Sword, but are able to customize it. Like with the potions and the bugs.

I am excited to know what comes next

 

[Htown]

The problem is that every Zelda game is juuuust different enough that there isn't one single thing that all Zelda fans want.

Some want Ocarina over and over, some want Majora's Mask, some want LTTP, some want LoZ, etc.

 

[shira]

When Zelda goes HD, it needs to be an open world title like the NES original. Right from the start, you can wander off in any direction

Sorry, but it doesn't work like that.

 

[Orayn]

I only half-agree with giving the player all the core items from the start. I'd rather the dungeons be tiered, e.g. dungeons 1 and 2 require no special items and give you the bow and bombs, while dungeons 3-5 require at least bow+bombs and give the hookshot, beetle, and wand, so on and so forth.

The rest sounds great!

 

[MrChocolate]

Shame Nintendo doesn't have the money nor the talent to make that sort of game. Oh wait they do, they just don't have the balls to do it. Majora's Mask was the only 3D Zelda game where they were willing to experiment in doing something really new.

When they took the risk, they developed the best Zelda ever. I wonder why the fuck wont they do it again.

 

[Link1110]

You can tackle the dungeons in any order, at any time. This is possible because you start the game with a half-dozen items that form the basic puzzle-solving "vocabulary" of every dungeon. So right from the start you have your sword, shield, bow, bombs, boomerang, hookshot and lantern. But each dungeon also has its own special item to collect. Since you should be able to tackle the dungeons in any order you wish, the special item in each dungeon should NOT be required for the puzzles in any of the other dungeons... but it would still get use beyond its host dungeon in the form of the overworld, where certain nooks and crannies can only be accessed by using that item. The final dungeon, accessible once you've completed all of the others, could also make use of every item, since you'd have them all by that point.

So with that it's possible to do any of the dungeons, in any order. The dungeons can still have their own compelling mechanics, they're own compelling plots, uncovered once you arrive there and meet the locals. But now there's a true sense of exploration and adventure...

So basically Mega Man gameplay, but in a Zelda game. I love this idea!

 

[Snowden's Secret]

Why not? It should work as long as you build "character" into each dungeon with self-contained plots that play out in said dungeon (think Medli in Dragon Roost Cavern in TWW), and if you provide threads connecting them all in the overworld (I.E. do dungeon A and then dungeon B, and NPCs will have modified speech vs. if you did dungeon B first). There's a way to make it more coherent than the occasionally aimless Bethesda game.

You couldn't design dungeons that relied on any item other than the one found in that specific dungeon if you did that. You'll notice that the most linear 3D Zelda (Skyward Sword) is also the one that makes the best use of its items. I'd even wager that Skyward Sword is so linear precisesly because of the focus on (Motion+ enhanced) item usage in that game.

How integral is the beetle to that game? Pretty damn, right? Well, all of that content would have to be cut because the designers couldn't count on the player having it at any point if that dungeon could come last. It's the same reason why there is no progression in Skyrim outside of stats/perks (you don't gain gameplay abilities for the most part) because and open world game can't support that well.

 

[Pop-O-Matic]

Sounds like you want something that is NOT a Zelda game, OP.

 

[Teknoman]

I'm sure they'll build on upgrading items. Honestly Skyward sword is pretty close to the progression I want the series to take, but of course with an even better overworld + harder bosses. I'm a little over time travel though, and hope they do another similar to Link to the Past and Twilight Princess where there are alternating realities. Mirror of Fate is already taken though.

 

[jph139]

They've never had a true open world Zelda. You've always progressed from Dungeon 1 to Dungeon 8. Sometimes the order is a bit open and you can do 5 before 4 or something, but there's always been a straightforward A to B linearity to it. The original two games had a "you alone in the world feel" to them, but I get the impression that was as much from hardware limitations as anything else.

And, I mean, a Zelda that's brutally difficult would be so horribly alienating. I played through A Link to the Past when I was like 6 and it was one of the best video game experiences of my life. I played through Skyward Sword recently and loved it. I'd like to have less hand-holding but "hardcore super tough no explanation open world" seems like something that would alienate 90% of Zelda's audience.

 

[Meelow]

That is the Zelda I want for Wii U, Zelda Wii U will be the first HD Zelda so a much bigger open world than Twilight Princess and tons of things to do in the over world would be amazing, I have so much ideas for Zelda Wii U.

 

[Orayn]

Sounds like you want something that is NOT a Zelda game, OP.

He wants something more akin to the original Legend of Zelda and it's not hard to see why. Skyward Sword was choked with filler and its approach to the player was downright patronizing to anyone who's played a video game before. Still a great game, mind you, but one that embodies some rather frustrating design philosophy.

 

[Dog Problems]

Zelda fans have no idea what they want from a Zelda game.

Nintendo does what they ask and people complain.

Cue the 4chan Miyamoto image.

 

[ag-my001]

The problem with bringing 2D exploration into 3D has always been that 2D limited the field of view to one screen at a time. Put some of the past Hyrule maps into 3D and people would complain about endless arbitrary cliffs and uncrossable 3' streams. Or you get the relatively empty ocean of WW. I liked the TP approach to this: hide a hole or cave, but make the area inside more expansive.

For dungeons in any order, that has been the exception, not the rule. Even in OoT you had either/or choices between 2 dungeons at best.

The difficulty issue was addressed in TP -> SS, let's hope they keep it.

 

[JazzmanZ]

I want a Zelda that takes place in a distant future, y'know maybe some plasma swords and moblin robots and shit?

 

[pargonta]

we can't really call zelda 1 an open world can we? by definition open world is the lack of loading between screens creating a seamless world, whereas zelda 1 has the lagging between each screen. i don't think it counts.

if the lagging wasn't there and it scrolled constantly then we'd be onto something.
edit: sure we can, jesus. i'm tired. it is an open world, it's just not the modern formula.

I agree with some of your points, the main thing is to start the adventure immediately. Part of zelda is the broken world and metroid style item gating imo, so you take that away it's not zelda.

change it, make it seem like an open world, that might work out.

 

[Wuthering_Heights]

I just want a Zelda game featuring this guy:

 

[Haliela]

I'd like to have less hand-holding but "hardcore super tough no explanation open world" seems like something that would alienate 90% of Zelda's audience.

And give Dark Souls fans serious wood, and when it comes right down to it, aren't Dark Souls fans the only fans that matter? They're like the alpha males of gaming.

 

[Neiteio]

You couldn't design dungeons that relied on any item other than the one found in that specific dungeon if you did that. You'll notice that the most linear 3D Zelda (Skyward Sword) is also the one that makes the best use of its items. I'd even wager that Skyward Sword is so linear precisesly because of the focus on (Motion+ enhanced) item usage in that game.

How integral is the beetle to that game? Pretty damn, right? Well, all of that content would have to be cut because the designers couldn't count on the player having it at any point if that dungeon could come last. It's the same reason why there is no progression in Skyrim outside of stats/perks (you don't gain gameplay abilities for the most part) because and open world game can't support that well.

You could do plenty in terms of dungeon design with the sword, shield, bow, bombs, boomerang, hookshot and lantern (again, the "core items," on you from the start), plus whatever special item is uncovered in that dungeon, and whatever special mechanics might be built into the dungeon itself (I.E. ice pillar in middle of Snowhead Temple in MM, etc). And come to think of it, most dungeons in most Zelda games consist mainly of puzzles revolving around the dungeon's special item, used in tandem with the core items this game would provide from the start.

However...

I only half-agree with giving the player all the core items from the start. I'd rather the dungeons be tiered, e.g. dungeons 1 and 2 require no special items and give you the bow and bombs, while dungeons 3-5 require at least bow+bombs and give the hookshot, beetle, and wand, so on and so forth.

The rest sounds great!

...this tiered concept is a good compromise.

Sounds like you want something that is NOT a Zelda game, OP.

I'm asking for a modernized 3D version of the NES/SNES Zeldas + Majora's Mask.

 

[Orayn]

I want a Zelda that takes place in a distant future, y'know maybe some plasma swords and moblin robots and shit?

Oh come off it. Giving the player some or all of the items right away would be a very natural extension of how Skyward Sword narrowed the item selection and tried to keep most of them useful for more of the game.

 

[Spring-Loaded]

Some interesting stuff in the OP. What isn't explicitly stated is that there would be a sense of finding adventure rather than having it come to you.

 

[Dark-VIII]

I want exactly whatever Aonuma and Co. decide to give us, because they've got a far better track record than any of us.

i second that>

just leave it to them.
i want to get surprised by what in their mind