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Gran Turismo 5 Spec II |OT| - We Love DLC!
- Thread starter Metalmurphy
- Start date
Metalmurphy
Member
Goddamn, Ill have x2 of what ever it is you are smoking.
That's what happened from GT3 to GT4, and I'd bet money on the tracks. Those track logos didn't get uploaded to gran-turismo.com by accident.
If they're Laguna Seca-esque it doesn't even matter how many they add, I doubt I'll want to race on them.
I'm waiting at least a month after PD's next game releases before I pick it up. They really dropped the ball with GT5 and even though they're trying to make it better through all their updates, they haven't proven able to keep up with the trends that gaming seems to be going towards.
I'm waiting at least a month after PD's next game releases before I pick it up. They really dropped the ball with GT5 and even though they're trying to make it better through all their updates, they haven't proven able to keep up with the trends that gaming seems to be going towards.
Metalmurphy
Member
Exact opposite for me, the more the merrier even if they're not up to nurburgring standard
Paladin CL
Member
Low poly car model where much easier to make than today standards, those numbers are impossible for PD, im not sure if is possible even with heavy outsourcing, Turn10 can manage 200 cars in 2 years but with heavy outsourcing and putting them almost completely to work on cars intead of tracks.
Thats on the modelling deparment alone, you are not considering the work of sending teams to take detailed pictures of the cars, capture the engine sound (they should do it this time) and of course the all the data you need to make the real world tracks.
Metalmurphy
Member
They're easier now as stuff like that gets easier over time, just like I'm sure GT5 models are easier now then 3 or 4 years ago. Also seeing how fast they made the 2011 and 2012 race versions of the gtr Kaz used (yes, based on an already existing model, but still there's ALOT of differences), I'm sure they got the process down ALOT faster now.
Also don't forget they've been continuously working on it, I'm even sure they had some cars closed to finished but ended up not being ready on time for gt5 and were saved for gt6
Paladin CL
Member
Friend, you are talking about a pair of cars here but before you were expecting 200+ cars and 40+ tracks. Think how much took for them to make 200 premium cars. They are hiring new people and that takes a bit of time, also moving the studios, also they had a big earthquake and if they are outsourcing that probably took a few months before the work could start.
So, im quite sure those numbers are quite unrealistic.
Metalmurphy
Member
You don't really think they do 1 car at a time right? During the same timeframe those "couple of cars" were made a few others were being made as well.
Btw it wasn't just 200 premium cars, it was actually closer to 250, and like I said, the process is likely much faster now. We got 60+ cars through DLC in 1 year and it's obvious they're not giving us everything they have been making through DLC. Factor in the fact that GT5 support is decreasing which gives them more focus on GT6 and I find the 200+ new cars entirely possible.
Paladin CL
Member
Since they started back in 2005 they have 287 cars including all the Nascar, Chrome cars and DLC ,theres lots of repeated/extremelly similar cars in that list.
http://www.mygranturismo.net/carlist.php?quality=P&start=200
And by the way, its 26 cars of DLC, not 60+
http://us.gran-turismo.com/us/products/gt5/dlc/
In terms of tracks they had to cut lots of them from GT4 and also lots of the tracks in the game doesnt look very good because they did a small upgrades, compared with the tracks that were made specially for GT5.
Point is simple: they have a huge bottleneck in the modelling section, i dont know if they have fixed that by now or not (by hiring more people or outsourcing) but either way they wont be able to deliver 200-300+ cars, 40+ tracks if the new game is comming next year or maybe even 2014.
Metalmurphy
Member
Since they started in 2005 they had to make the entire game. Why do you think gt3 only had 180 cars as well? Yet gt4 has over 700
25 cars are from paid dlc, we got 60+ additional cars already.
As for similar cars, the original list and other games had them as well so no point in differentiating those.
They were hiring new modelers some time ago.
I'm sure for every DLC car we got, there are 2 or 3 more cars they keep for GT6.
To be honest I'm ok with everything they choose:
- Spec III + DLCs until GT6 next-gen
- GT6 for PS3, late 2013
- GT Vita
And I wounldn't mind more GT4 tracks upscaled and with better textures; Laguna Seca is probably the worst of GT5's "standard" tracks, but others like Deep Forest and Grand Valley are pretty good.
Actually, I just need the tarmac to race on lol
I'm sure for every DLC car we got, there are 2 or 3 more cars they keep for GT6.
To be honest I'm ok with everything they choose:
- Spec III + DLCs until GT6 next-gen
- GT6 for PS3, late 2013
- GT Vita
And I wounldn't mind more GT4 tracks upscaled and with better textures; Laguna Seca is probably the worst of GT5's "standard" tracks, but others like Deep Forest and Grand Valley are pretty good.
Actually, I just need the tarmac to race on lol
PdotMichael
Banned
You would only need some new race tracks, cars with more customization options, some overall improvement like a better race track generator and a real career mode and the game would be already so much better than GT5 that's not really important if it a PS3 and PS4 game.
Metalmurphy
Member
Just look at it this way,
GT3 had 181 cars on a 17 month development period (Dec 09 - April 01), 10.5 cars per month
GT4 had 722 cars on a 56 month period (April 01 - Dec 05), 12.8 cars per month, x1.22 more
GT5 had 223 (not counting chrome/stealth) cars on a 59 month period (Dec 05 - Nov 10, not even counting Tourist Trophy btw), 3,8 cars per month
3,8x1.22*(lets say 3 years)36=166 cars.
That's without even counting the fact that the studio has grown quite substantially (specifically new modellers as well), which I'm not sure it happened between GT3 and GT4, and without counting Tourist Trophy, where those 124 bikes and new tracks didn't just magically appear.
GT3 had 181 cars on a 17 month development period (Dec 09 - April 01), 10.5 cars per month
GT4 had 722 cars on a 56 month period (April 01 - Dec 05), 12.8 cars per month, x1.22 more
GT5 had 223 (not counting chrome/stealth) cars on a 59 month period (Dec 05 - Nov 10, not even counting Tourist Trophy btw), 3,8 cars per month
3,8x1.22*(lets say 3 years)36=166 cars.
That's without even counting the fact that the studio has grown quite substantially (specifically new modellers as well), which I'm not sure it happened between GT3 and GT4, and without counting Tourist Trophy, where those 124 bikes and new tracks didn't just magically appear.
seattle6418
Member
Please don´t tell me you are counting cars with different bumpers and stickers as cars. Since you know PD models the cars part by part, you know you can´t count the Touring pack, for example, as new cars.
And of course, the GT Academy cars only have new stickers and the "new" Nascar models have a modifyed front splitter and a different paint job. They are so equal to the older models that real teams from Nascar still use old chassis only with the new parts.
It´s crazy to say they developed 60 cars for DLC. Some bumpers, some aero kits and they finished the work they started in a bunch of cars, like the Scirocco, the Aventador and the likes.
We need to be realistic, they are crazy slow developing those high poly models.
Metalmurphy
Member
I'm counting them on all 4 games I'm using so the ratio should be similar and I won't have to spend an entire day looking for similar cars...
And in those calculations I didn't even include the DLC cars...
seattle6418
Member
Out of the 64 DLC cars you refer (we can check on this list: http://www.mygranturismo.net/carlist.php?dlc=dlc&start=50) only 17 of them can be counted as new cars, meaning moddelled from scratch. And if they used variations from the Minis and the Karts, that number can be as low as 12-13.
I´m not sure what you are trying to say here. PD has always used the clones but up the car count, everybody knows that. Out of the 722 cars from GT4 only 350 of them are unique models, it´s not like they created a gazillion cars from GT3 to GT4.
What i know for sure is that after two years of GT5 i got 15 new cars, buying all the DLC i could buy. That´s pretty weak.
Out of the current gen roster (220 models of GT5), 70 of them were ready for Prologue. That´s 150 GT5 cars in three years, and 50 a year it´s about what they were able to produce.
It´s a concept thing where they give you this:
50 cars with 100% detail, but you can also have
200 cars with 90% detail, outsorcing and stuff
While i apreciate what Kaz has done, the more i think about it i would rather have PD doing the second option, but they are not. And that´s exactly why i don´t want a GT6 on PS3 and in 2013, because that would mean only a handful of new cars and tracks.
Don´t even get me started on the tracks because we all know they take like 2-3 years to produce while they could be using laser scan like the other producers and still getting 95% of the details they want.
I´m not sure what you are trying to say here. PD has always used the clones but up the car count, everybody knows that. Out of the 722 cars from GT4 only 350 of them are unique models, it´s not like they created a gazillion cars from GT3 to GT4.
What i know for sure is that after two years of GT5 i got 15 new cars, buying all the DLC i could buy. That´s pretty weak.
Out of the current gen roster (220 models of GT5), 70 of them were ready for Prologue. That´s 150 GT5 cars in three years, and 50 a year it´s about what they were able to produce.
It´s a concept thing where they give you this:
50 cars with 100% detail, but you can also have
200 cars with 90% detail, outsorcing and stuff
While i apreciate what Kaz has done, the more i think about it i would rather have PD doing the second option, but they are not. And that´s exactly why i don´t want a GT6 on PS3 and in 2013, because that would mean only a handful of new cars and tracks.
Don´t even get me started on the tracks because we all know they take like 2-3 years to produce while they could be using laser scan like the other producers and still getting 95% of the details they want.
Metalmurphy
Member
I already said it, I am including the similar cars because I also included them on all the others, it makes the ratio of new cars per month (similar ones or not) the same. Unless you are implying GT6 wont have similar cars.
I also didn't even include the DLC cars, and being on Prologue has no meaning because I included the development time since GT4, prologue included. Infact Prologue comes in favor of more cars as they don't have to waste time on something like that again.
I also didn't even include the DLC cars, and being on Prologue has no meaning because I included the development time since GT4, prologue included. Infact Prologue comes in favor of more cars as they don't have to waste time on something like that again.
Metalmurphy
Member
Yeah, game needs a community section with all created tracks, and a rating system. Seeing only friendlist tracks makes no sense.
On a side note, tracks using the editor on the most recent seasonals have actually been sort of decent.
MNR style track editor would basically put GT6 in God Tier. I think KY said a detailed track editor would create copyright and licensing issues.
Metalmurphy
Member
I don't think an editor like that is possible on an engine like GT5. Game engine, and the game it self needs to be designed with an editor like that in mind, and that usually means lots of compromises.
The only alternative I can see is giving us a tool like Unreal Editor/Valve Hammer tools with limited assets.
The only alternative I can see is giving us a tool like Unreal Editor/Valve Hammer tools with limited assets.
I think only if you allow customization to include the various branded elements and stickers. Like the Goodyear, Dunlop, Shell and so forth markings. If you disallow all those I don't see how it would create problems. Just auto populate the surroundings as they do now and all is well.
Some course layouts are protected by various licenses, and PD would step into a gray area that would do more harm than good. Especially given the realism of the title.
There is nothing wrong with the random track editor if more fine tuning and details could be added. I still want the point-to-point courses too.
seattle6418
Member
Some course layouts are protected by various licenses, and PD would step into a gray area that would do more harm than good. Especially given the realism of the title.
There is nothing wrong with the random track editor if more fine tuning and details could be added. I still want the point-to-point courses too.
It was the perfect solution for WRC but they blew it. We should get hundreds of generated tracks, online tournaments with that, but in the end the WRC portion of the game was wildly underused.
Tracks feel generic and often too wide and without variety. It was a shame and i hope they use it better in GT6.
BTW, the licensing excuse is BS, even with perfect models and such, create a thing was never a problem with any other sports/racing game before, shouldn´t be with GT. Hardware limitations are much more belieaveble.
Kaz said that a "proper" editor would have been too complicated for the player to use, which shows that they went about designing one all wrong. Someone send him a V-Rally 2 disc.
I'm inclined to agree, as GT has included what is a very obvious Monaco rendition, which is also protected by license, one that PD don't possess, yet PD can't get sued.
seattle6418 said:
I'm inclined to agree, as GT has included what is a very obvious Monaco rendition, which is also protected by license, one that PD don't possess, yet PD can't get sued.
Some course layouts are protected by various licenses, and PD would step into a gray area that would do more harm than good. Especially given the realism of the title.
There is nothing wrong with the random track editor if more fine tuning and details could be added. I still want the point-to-point courses too.
The layouts may be protected, but without laser measurement tools you would never be able to recreate a real track accurately enough in a track editor/generator to threaten the real thing. So I don't think Bathurst would get pissed if there were 3000 user attempts at getting it right, but they were all somewhat off due to the limitations of the generator. If anything, it would prove there is interest and perhaps get PD to model it and also get the tracks interested in participating and being included in the game.
But I agree with you, a stronger version of what we have now is perfectly fine but it has to be tied with a really good social system.
Metalmurphy
Member
I'm pretty sure when Kaz said it would be too complicated he meant giving us access to the same tools they use, which are pretty much 3d editors, and with those you could very well break all sorts of licenses. It needs to be something with limited assets given by the game.
Wax Free Vanilla
Member
Polyphony need to clone Bob's Track Builder for GT6 and include import/export options for a separate Vita track builder app.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJMo-hF7zX0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ckxKTLGHbiU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hmJs9mb-bB8&list=UUn9cz2ODw7PNAkqfoHZFv5w&index=2&feature=plcp
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJMo-hF7zX0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ckxKTLGHbiU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hmJs9mb-bB8&list=UUn9cz2ODw7PNAkqfoHZFv5w&index=2&feature=plcp
After playing a bunch of Sleeping Dogs in the last few days...
I would trade any upgrades that they're planning for GT6, instead for a mini city that allows you to drive around freely - where you can also create courses through the city - that gives you the option to drive in traffic, or without traffic.
I mean... if you're going to spend millions painstakingly creating all these beautiful racing assets... why not give us a genuinely thrilling racing experience that can't be had (legally) for any millions of dollars?
I would trade any upgrades that they're planning for GT6, instead for a mini city that allows you to drive around freely - where you can also create courses through the city - that gives you the option to drive in traffic, or without traffic.
I mean... if you're going to spend millions painstakingly creating all these beautiful racing assets... why not give us a genuinely thrilling racing experience that can't be had (legally) for any millions of dollars?
Goldrusher
Member
That was actually planned for GT5.
http://www.gtplanet.net/yamauchi-on-gt5s-mechanical-damage-updates-more/
Natural development and such forth may see a few performance gains here and there but if GT6 comes out of the PS3 I feel it will look and play much the same as GT5.
Releasing it on the PS4 would have obvious advantages but I would guess a new engine would be needed if sony has dropped the cell processor which in turn may introduce significant delays.
Or GT6 is vita only.
Pick your poison.
Releasing it on the PS4 would have obvious advantages but I would guess a new engine would be needed if sony has dropped the cell processor which in turn may introduce significant delays.
Or GT6 is vita only.
Pick your poison.
I remember that. It would've been awesome. Crossing my fingers it makes it to GT6 in some way.
That would finally push me over the limit to go PC only for racing games or buy a 360, probably both. GT is one of the only reasons I bought ps3.
SatansReverence
Hipster Princess
Hmmm... Fanatec hardware and Gran Turismo... foreshadowing? Hopefully.
Looks like the Forza branded wheel.
Fanatec will probably release the same wheel but with GT5/6 branding. A good idea seeing as how good that wheel is.
Kaz is the coolest guy around. Hope it happens in the next game. I'll pay whatever.
weekend_warrior
Banned
What the fuck is this post.
Nope. That is the Fanatec logo.
DonMigs85
Member
It's called Need for Speed
It's called wishful thinking.
Need for Speed simply doesn't hold a candle up to GT in terms of driving, graphics, car quality.
SolidSnakex
Member
What Zaptruder described (with the exception of traffic) is similar to the quote that Goldrusher posted earlier. I think PGR actually did something where you'd have a big city and you could section off parts of it to create a course. They obviously spent a ton of time modeling places like Madrid and London into the game, so i'd imagine that they have a lot more to those cities than what we've seen in the game.
Kaz seems to want to make GT into an all-in-one racing experience, so why not give us a few open world cities to drive around in and create tracks from?
Kaz seems to want to make GT into an all-in-one racing experience, so why not give us a few open world cities to drive around in and create tracks from?
Im still waiting for this....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlmciM6lOCs
Instabuy for me.
Shame that they paved it this year.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlmciM6lOCs
Instabuy for me.
Shame that they paved it this year.
PdotMichael
Banned
so you don't want race tracks anymore but a GT: Need for Speed?
I want to be able to drive from the city to the track, engaging in street racing with realistic traffic as we go.
SolidSnakex
Member
I never said anything about that. There's no reason that they'd have to remove the Nurburgring, Deep Forest, Laguna Seca etc. I'm talking about an enhanced version of what Kaz is talking about here
Just take that and blow it out. You'd still all have the courses that I mentioned above and even those cities would have a specific PD designed path within them, but the player would also be given an option to create a path for racing. Like I said, i'm pretty sure that PGR did this with their city courses, and it still had regular race courses in it.